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Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us

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  • Elizabeth Canova
    Thanks for the suggestion.  While in college in the early 90 s I did some research and a paper on dream interpretation and I remember reading some of Carl
    Message 1 of 21 , May 1, 2009
      Thanks for the suggestion.  While in college in the early 90's I did some research and a paper on dream interpretation and I remember reading some of Carl Jung, so I am familiar, although I don't remember too much.  I am going to the library this weekend and see if I can find that.
       
      Elizabeth :o)


      --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Andre Traversa <goandre@...> wrote:

      From: Andre Traversa <goandre@...>
      Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us
      To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 4:07 AM

      Elizabeth,

      Something which may help you in interpreting your dreams.
      have you ever read the work of Carl Jung? He was the great dream teacher. A good intro to Jung is Robert Johnson's' book, Inner Work.

      Blessings,
      Andre


    • Brother Dave
      Dear Elizabeth and all in Jesus Christ here, I do not pay any attention to my sleep dreams; I dream and reflect always while awake -- both conscious and
      Message 2 of 21 , May 1, 2009
        Dear Elizabeth and all in Jesus Christ here,
         
        I do not pay any attention to my sleep dreams; I dream and reflect always while awake -- both conscious and super-conscious.  Dreams often include the sub -conscious level of our minds.
         
        This might help. For the last two days, I have been thinking of Pentecost and the bestowal of Jesus here in Spirit: He the Spirit of Truth and as mentioned in John ch 16, and the last several verses of ch 17 are also very important.  I am thinking of posting something about Pentecost on my website. I just looked up the dates:
         
        "In the Western Rite, Pentecost will fall on May 31st, 2009. In the Eastern Rite, Pentecost will fall on June 7th, 2009"
         
        That gives us all of May to reflect on this.  Jesus, as He the Spirit of Truth, appeared to Christian believers as "divided tongues of Fire".  Tongues has to do with communication and language and also involves angels !   The word "Fire" is actually the Presence of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Spirit Luminosity.
         
        Your "singing angels scorched the heavens" could be related to our super-conscious communicating angels who help to Reveal God and Jesus here as two Divine Lights coordinate and as One Infinite Light of Love and Life.
         
        This ties in to one's Spirit-Birthday or Vision of God and Jesus as One.
         
        Just as Blaise Pascal who had this sacred Vision also had his little crypic "mystic amulet";
         
        O  O     drawing sewn into the lining of each coat that Blaise wore,
          +
         
        I have mine as    { { { {  oO } } } }
         
        "We are Coordinate; Cooperate with Jesus; communicate; collaborate ..."
         
        Not in mere English words; but eternally burning within me as a Spirit of God-led soul. Each day, this becomes more clear.
         
        When the two  o O  (Son and Father) side-by-side, descend and touch, we have the symbol for infinity ...  and I am taken into the Presence of God and Jesus as One in Spirit and here and in Paradise  ... much more ... 
         
                       Infinite Love - Power - Personality - Light
         
        Daily, usually more, I reflect in worship and thank Jesus for this Vision-Destiny-Birth-more "Gift" Who came down up me (and all in this universe !) on May 24, AD1977 -on and Eternally.
         
        Maybe this might help you or others.   We "feast" in this Spirit Luminosity !
         
        That is my view on your dream symbols, combining some of mine. You may have a more personal interpretation that is more meaningful to you.
         
        Peace and progress,
         
        Brother Dave
         
        http://www.PureChristians.org/ Gospel enlarging website,
        proclaiming worldwide the True Religion
        OF JESUS and ABOUT JESUS and IN JESUS
         
        Come learn and share  !



        From: Elizabeth Canova <elizabeth.canova@...>
        To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:45:27 PM
        Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us

        Karen, another point I wanted to make.  I do realize that I am unsure, I am new to everything.  There is so much I want to look into and educate myself on, I think about all of the time I could have been doing this if my head weren't in the sand.  Now I have 4 boys I am trying to raise and a wonderful man in my life that I do not want to neglect, so it is a slow process for me.  I have faith that I am being led in the right direction, I know what I am feeling but sometimes putting that into words is a little harder, especially when everyone wants to pick out certain words and phrases and focus on them from their own point of view.  One thing I try to do is look at what I write from another person's viewpoint, I truly care about other people and I wonder how many other people read this board and do not comment because of a fear of being told they are wrong,  I bet that if there were any homosexuals on this board then they are probably long gone.
         
        On another note...I do pray for answers and I usually get answers in the morning after sleeping or either I will wake up and feel compelled to write down what came to me.   One of the last messages/answers I received was "Pentacost"  I also received one message/answer that doesn't make sense to me...but it might just be my rambling thoughts or something crazy from my dream, but nonetheless I felt as though I needed to write it down.  So what do you think this means ? "Singing angels scorched the heavens"  I received that the same night I received "Pentacost" and the word "feast" I need to look all this up and see how all these things come together, but maybe someone on the board can make sense of it.
         
        Elizabeth

        --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Karen <keyisme2u@yahoo. .com> wrote:

        From: Karen <keyisme2u@yahoo. com>
        Subject: [Christian-Philosop hy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us
        To: Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 9:18 PM

        Dear Elizabeth,

        I want to comment now on what you said here:

        Well then...why wouldn't God harden my heart if He knew it would bring about wisdom, compassion and love?
         
        I wonder this...why am I feeling bad for posting this response?  My stomach is churning a little bit...not because I think I am wrong...but because in no way to do I want you to think I am saying that the FER is incorrect ...my interpretation of it is different... maybe I don't read it the same as you do...my background won't allow me to?  I don't know...but I don't see what you see there...I tried to but I can't understand it that way.
        Elizabeth
        It is not an easy thing to reconcile what you have been taught within a Christian church, with what the spirit teaches within your heart.  It can make your stomach churn.  It did me.  One has to let go of preconceived notions planted within our minds by established organizations and its clergy.   It is impossible for the mind to hold two opposing beliefs.  This is what makes you feel on edge and unsure. 

        It is not a sin to grow spiritually, nor is it a sin to listen to the Holy Spirit within you.  What I have seen is clergy will attempt to keep you within the framework of their beliefs by causing doubt within a believer's mind, when their beliefs are questioned.  They denounce what the Holy Spirit is teaching, if it doesn't agree with their dogma.  This of course causes confusion.  Listening to them preach about this perpetuates the doubt within the mind.   I challenge this by proposing this...  A mind and heart, which belongs to Christ, cannot be occupied by "the devil".  A mind filled with light, knows only light. 

        It is important to not let our normal human tendencies (jealousy, sarcasm, anger, etc.) be confused with "Satan prowling around us in wait like a roaring lion".   The statement, "Satan is prowling around us in wait, like a roaring lion" is founded within a fear based doctrine.  Fear is very useful in controlling the masses.  It is also an inhibitor of faith and the inner teachings we receive from the Holy Spirit.  It is far better to listen with your heart and soul and then pray on it.  God has never failed to send me answers or signs to let me know I am on the right track.  I totally trust The Spirit of Truth Christ has bequeathed to me and everyone else on planet Earth.  Faith is belief in things unseen.

        Peace,
        Karen

        --- In Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com, Elizabeth Canova <elizabeth.canova@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > I totally agree with that....God answers our prayers, we have the freedom to ask for what we want and what we think we need, he can even give us a hardened heart if we want that....we think we know what is best for us, and we even think we know what is best for others. 
        >  
        > He keeps on giving....and we keep on trying to drive.....asking for more routes saying "God doesn't want me to go left" or "God doesn't want me to stop here" - - trying to use our power to control our outcome and the outcome of others...trying to "save" other people or "save" ourselves... or tell them what is right and what is wrong....but every road we insist on taking and insist others take, those will always leads back to him (another chance to let go and "choose the father's will")....he can even grant us a hardened heart and I truly believe that eventually.. ....for all of us....His will be done.
        >  
        > I even read the Lord's prayer differently. .....I read it as his will would never lead us into temptation.. ..only our will does that...he gives us what we want, when I pray that prayer I am saying and understanding it as God would never lead me into temptation because he is my deliverer. 
        >  
        >  
        >
        > --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Karen keyisme2u@.. . wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Karen keyisme2u@.. .
        > Subject: [Christian-Philosop hy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us
        > To: Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com
        > Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 5:35 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Elizabeth,
        >
        > Paper 5 in the FER:
        >
        > Mortal man may draw near God and may repeatedly forsake the divine will so long as the power of choice remains. Man's final doom is not sealed until he has lost the power to choose the Father's will. There is never a closure of the Father's heart to the need and the petition of his children. Only do his offspring close their hearts forever to the Father's drawing power when they finally and forever lose the desire to do his divine willâ€"to know him and to be like him.
        >
        > Peace,
        > Karen
        >
        > --- In Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com, Elizabeth Canova <elizabeth.canova@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Brother Dave, I just read this and concerning page 1738, where exactly does Jesus say that "God never harden hearts or tempts us"  ?  From what I read he is saying to Nathaniel "you know" and he is also talking about the forefathers saying "they thought" but never do I read where he says anything about God not doing it.  Sorry to make a play on words here....but from what I read he is  just confirming what he knows what Nathaniel believes...just like he confirmed in John 10:34 to the Jews "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ."  
        > > 
        >

      • Andre Traversa
        Elizabeth, I ve ben watching your posts and find you a very interesting and reflective person. I have a question for you. Would you mind if I wrote you
        Message 3 of 21 , May 1, 2009
          Elizabeth,
          I've ben watching your posts and find you a very interesting and
          reflective person.
          I have a question for you. Would you mind if I wrote you privately
          offlist?
          Blessings,
          Andre

          On Fri, 1 May 2009, Elizabeth Canova wrote:

          > Thanks for the suggestion.  While in college in the early 90's I did some research and a paper on dream interpretation and I remember reading some of Carl Jung, so I am familiar, although I don't remember too much.  I am going to the library this weekend and see if I can find that.
          >  
          > Elizabeth :o)
          >
          >
          > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Andre Traversa <goandre@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Andre Traversa <goandre@...>
          > Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us
          > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 4:07 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Elizabeth,
          >
          > Something which may help you in interpreting your dreams.
          > have you ever read the work of Carl Jung? He was the great dream teacher. A good intro to Jung is Robert Johnson's' book, Inner Work.
          >
          > Blessings,
          > Andre
          >
          >
          >
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        • Elizabeth Canova
          I don t mind, email me anytime   elizabeth.canova@yahoo.com   ... From: Andre Traversa Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: God never
          Message 4 of 21 , May 2, 2009
            I don't mind, email me anytime
             
             
            :o)

            --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Andre Traversa <goandre@...> wrote:

            From: Andre Traversa <goandre@...>
            Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us
            To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 8:30 PM

            Elizabeth,
            I've ben watching your posts and  find you a very interesting and
            reflective person.
            I have a question for you. Would you mind if I wrote you privately
            offlist?
            Blessings,
            Andre

            On Fri, 1 May 2009, Elizabeth Canova wrote:

            > Thanks for the suggestion.  While in college in the early 90's I did some research and a paper on dream interpretation and I remember reading some of Carl Jung, so I am familiar, although I don't remember too much.  I am going to the library this weekend and see if I can find that.
            >  
            > Elizabeth :o)
            >
            >
            > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Andre Traversa <goandre@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Andre Traversa <goandre@...>
            > Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: God never "hardens hearts" nor "tempts" us
            > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 4:07 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Elizabeth,
            >
            > Something which may help you in interpreting your dreams.
            > have you ever read the work of Carl Jung? He was the great dream teacher. A good intro to Jung is Robert Johnson's' book, Inner Work.
            >
            > Blessings,
            > Andre
            >
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