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Re: Continuing Revelation in Jesus Christ here in Spirit !

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  • Karen
    Hello Robert, Nice to meet you and we re glad you joined the group. ... God is the director and writer of the script. If something in the script isn t going
    Message 1 of 71 , Jun 1, 2008

      Hello Robert,

      Nice to meet you and we're glad you joined the group. 

      --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mendelson <elijah18901@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for the "hello".
       I'm not saying this is the answer, just something to consider:
      > Since God transcends Time, then at least one way God would be
      > constant without changing is comparable to a movie. A movie is the
      > same movie&nbsp;from beginning to end every time we watch it, but
      > watching the movie in linear time makes it appear that it's
      > constantly changing.

      God is the director and writer of the script.  If something in the script isn't going the way he planned, he will change it, as any good director would.  Therefore, the script is in a constant state of alteration, as he deems it to be.    God is the creative will of infinity.  The precepts that God uses to make changes to the script are unchanging.  Freewill can throw wrenches in the plan, but the divine plan will endure because of script changes.


      By the way; God invented and created space-time anomalies,
      > not man, so why not use this knowledge when creating theology.
      > We've been given a scientific example of how God can transcend Time, so if we include this in the equation,&nbsp;some passages that
      > say, "Forever" are an eternal moment and not meant to be reas
      > as a linear time "forever". We might get a more compassionate
      > and scientifically-compatible reading of the scriptures if we
      > included this possibility in our theology. The correct solution
      > would&nbsp;be what is in accordance with the spirit of Christ's gospel,
      > not limited to ego-centric, linear, physical, and literal&nbsp;factors.
      > After all, God told us His thoughts are above ours;
      > Isaiah 55:9; 
      "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
      so are my ways higher than your ways
      and my thoughts than your thoughts."

      Yes, his thoughts are much higher and more complicated than the thoughts we perceive as truth.  Christ came to change erroneous thoughts.  He imparts knowledge to us in the here and now.  In the days of Isaiah, they were just beginning to touch upon higher thoughts about God.  Their concepts of the highest deity were still forming within their minds, according to their level of comprehension.  They didn't use scientific and logical tools of thought, as we should now. 

      I think the glue that holds the "correct" theory together will
      > be Christ and Christ's gospel of love.&nbsp;&nbsp;

      Love can overcome all obstacles and Christ has done it!  He tried to show us the way as well.  Some people are mired down in past history where error of thoughts are seen.  This further complicates the teaching that Christ imparts to each and every one us NOW. 

      Peace,

      Karen
      >
      >
      > --- On Fri, 5/30/08, Karen &lt;keyisme2u@...&gt; wrote:
      >
      > From: Karen &lt;keyisme2u@...&gt;
      > Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: Continuing Revelation in Jesus Christ here in Spirit !
      > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, May 30, 2008, 5:40 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello to All New and Old Members Alike !!!
      > &nbsp;
      > Geoff,
      > &nbsp;
      > 4:4.1 God is the only stationary, self-contained, and changeless being in the whole&nbsp;universe of universes, having no outside, no beyond, no past, and no future. God is purposive energy (creative spirit) and absolute will, and these are self-existent and universal.&nbsp;&nbsp; 4:4.2 Since God is self-existent, he is absolutely independent. The very identity of God is inimical to change. " I, the Lord, change not. " God is immutable; but not until you achieve Paradise status can you even begin to understand how God can pass from simplicity to complexity, from identity to variation, from quiescence to motion, from infinity to finitude, from the divine to the human, and from unity to duality and triunity.&nbsp; And God can thus modify the manifestations of his absoluteness because divine immutability does not imply immobility; God has will—he is will.&nbsp; 4:4.3 God is the being of absolute self-determination; there are no limits to his universe
      > reactions save those which are self-imposed, and his freewill acts are conditioned only by those divine qualities and perfect attributes which inherently characterize his eternal nature. Therefore is God related to the universe as the being of final goodness plus a free will of creative infinity.
      > &nbsp;
      > Humans are in a constant state of evolutionary change.&nbsp; Even the earth is changing.&nbsp; Just since 1997 the structure of the Earth has shifted from being slightly more egg-shaped, or elongated at the poles, to more pumpkin-shaped, or flattened at the poles.&nbsp; http://www.gsfc. nasa.gov/ topstory/ 20020801gravityf ield.html
      > &nbsp;
      > Currently, we don't fully understand why these changes are occurring, but that does not invalidate the evidence.&nbsp; As we evolve and learn we comprehend more.&nbsp; The point I'm trying to make is God can change anything he pleases.&nbsp; To say God does not change is implying he does not have free will and we all know he can do whatever he deems appropriate whenever he chooses.&nbsp; Everything we know and have learned up to this point in history is about progressive revelation.&nbsp;
      > &nbsp;
      > Peace,
      > Karen
      > --- In Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com, geoff &lt;geoff@&gt; wrote:
      > &gt;
      > &gt; Question, how can God, who is by nature unchanging change?
      > &gt;
      > &gt; This definition of progressive revelation suggests that God is changing
      > &gt; and revealing these "changes" over time.
      > &gt;
      > &gt; An explanation if you would...
      >

    • Andre Traversa
      Geoff, But, if we are born in this state, as you claim, then we can t help but do bad things; so how is this our fault? Andre
      Message 71 of 71 , Jun 9, 2008
        Geoff,
        But, if we are born in this state, as you claim, then we can't help but do bad things; so how is this our fault?
        Andre

        On Sun, 8 Jun 2008, geoff wrote:

        >
        >
        > Andre Traversa wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >> Geoff,
        >> How can it be in any sense our fault?
        >> How is it a baby's fault that she misses the mark?
        >> This is an exampe of unearned guilt, which is why original sin is such a
        >> silly concept.
        >
        >
        > It is our fault because we affirm the fact that we miss the mark by
        > doing bad things. Forget the term original sin... it doesnt really
        > explain clearly enough, unless you have put the hours into understanding
        > sin, the problem.
        >
        > 1. The CORE problem is that human beings were created, and purposed to
        > represent God, This means a close personal relationship and dependence
        > on God is required. When Adam chose to rely on himself, to gain wisdom
        > and knowledge to make himself like God, this close personal
        > relationship was severed.
        > You can not have close relationship with God, and not be dependent on
        > him. It would be like being married but having sex with the next door
        > neighbour.
        >
        > 2. All human beings are born in this state now, its what I call "being
        > born out of Eden". We affirm that this is the case by a: suppressing the
        > knowledge of God, b: continuing to do evil/bad things.
        >
        > It is my daughters fault because she DOES BAD THINGS, just like it is
        > your fault and everyones fault. We dont do the same thing that Adam did,
        > that is, we are not sinless and then do something bad and become
        > sinners. We are sinners because we dont start out with a relationship
        > with God, because our mom is the next door neighbour. We affirm that we
        > are the sons and daughters of our dad by sleeping with the next door
        > neighbour as well.
        >
        > Thats as simple as I can make it.
        >
        > ------------------------------------
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