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21154Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: I don't understand......Actual Hebrew History

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  • brotherdavejesusonian
    Jul 21, 2014
      Hi Dorothy and all,

      There are two serious errors that some Christians and some atheists make: 

      1. All of the Bible is the inspired, perfect Word of God !

      2. None of the Bible is inspired or true, it is all fake !

      We have our Sovereign Savior Jesus Christ fully here in Spirit with us -- as He the Spirit of All Truth: God [See John 1:1-18 John 16:7-16]
      He gives us the Conviction of Truth of what is true, beautiful, good and Godly or not.

      Only about 2% of the Old Testament is up to the standard of Jesus Christ; and about 25 % of the New (less old) Testament is.

      For example, read now Numbers chapter 5 and tell me if God said to give women (ONLY, not men) this unjust, barbaric "thigh and belly rot test !

      Or do you believe that "God said that he was sorry he make mankind !?  That would be a finite, imperfect god that makes mistakes !
      Or how about damnation in eternal hell-fire ?  Blood-atonement to appease a vampire god and make it mellow and friendly again to mankind?

      None of that rings true in the Spirit of Jesus !

      Comments invited.

      Peace and progress in Spirit and in Father-Son Truth,

      Brother Dave

      Each Saturday & Sunday 3PM CST live internet radio show
      All past shows are archived there to play.

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      Come learn and share in one or all !

      From: "Group, Christian-Philosophy" <Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com>
      To: "Group, Christian-Philosophy" <Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 11:34:36 AM
      Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: I don't understand......Actual Hebrew History


      Re what bro. Dave has written -So, the common belief that the OT  scriptures as we have them are the inspired words ofGod is complete baloney then?...And yet the Holy Spirit teaches us lessons as we read the passages....?????????
      What’s it all about?
      Sincerely confused,
      Dorothy Wood
      Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 4:25 AM
      Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: I don't understand......Actual Hebrew History

      I have heard of lost tribes and a 13th tribe. Is this anywhere in Urantia

      Brother Dave wrote:
      > Dear
      > Ralph M. mentioned that the Bible mentions that
      there were twelve
      > tribes of Israel. That is not true. The following
      revelation provides
      > the true history of the Hebrews. This is from The
      Urantia Bookwhich
      > is fully in the public domain and may be
      > Page-1070
      The custom of looking upon the record of the experiences of
      > the
      > as sacred history and upon the transactions of the rest of the
      > as
      > profane history is responsible for much of the
      confusion existing in
      > the human mind as to the interpretation of
      history. And this
      > difficulty
      > arises because there is no secular
      history of the Jews. After the
      > priests of the Babylonian exile had
      prepared their new record of God's
      > supposedly miraculous dealings with
      the Hebrews, the sacred history of
      > Israel as portrayed in the Old
      Testament, they carefully and
      > completely
      > destroyed the existing
      records of Hebrew affairs -- such books as "The
      > Doings of the Kings of
      Israel" and "The Doings of the Kings of Judah,"
      > together with several
      other more or less accurate records of Hebrew
      > In order to understand how the devastating
      pressure and the
      > inescapable coercion of secular history so terrorized
      the captive and
      > alien-ruled Jews that they attempted the complete
      rewriting and
      > recasting of their history, we should briefly survey the
      record of
      > their perplexing national experience. It must be remembered
      that the
      > Jews
      > failed to evolve an adequate nontheologic
      philosophy of life. They
      > struggled with their original and Egyptian
      concept of divine rewards
      > for righteousness coupled with dire
      punishments for sin. The drama of
      > Job
      > was something of a protest
      against this erroneous philosophy. The
      > frank
      > pessimism of
      Ecclesiastes was a worldly wise reaction to these
      > overoptimistic beliefs
      in Providence.
      > Page-1071 But five hundred years of the
      overlordship of alien rulers
      > was too
      > much for even the patient
      and long-suffering Jews. The prophets and
      > priests began to cry: "How
      long, O Lord, how long?" As the honest Jew
      > searched the Scriptures, his
      confusion became worse confounded. An
      > olden seer promised that God would
      protect and deliver his "chosen
      > people."
      > Amos had threatened
      that God would abandon Israel unless they
      > re-established their standards
      of national righteousness, The scribe
      > of
      > Deuteronomy had
      portrayed the Great Choice -- as between the good and
      > the evil, the
      blessing and the curse. Isaiah the first had preached a
      > beneficent
      king-deliverer. Jeremiah had proclaimed an era of inner
      > righteousness --
      the covenant written on the tablets of the heart.
      > [The Spirit of God
      indwelling all humans. A step toward personal
      > God-consciousness without
      priests around.] The second Isaiah talked
      > about salvation by sacrifice
      and redemption. Ezekiel proclaimed
      > deliverance through the service of
      devotion, and Ezra promised
      > prosperity by adherence to the law. But in
      spite of all this they
      > lingered on in bondage, and deliverance was
      deferred. Then Daniel
      > presented the drama of the impending "crisis" --
      the smiting of the
      > great image and the immediate establishment of the
      everlasting reign
      > of
      > righteousness, the Messianic
      > And all of this false hope led to such a degree
      of racial
      > disappointment and frustration that the leaders of the Jews
      were so
      > confused they failed to recognize and accept the mission and
      > of a divine Son of Paradise when he presently came to them in
      > likeness of mortal flesh -- incarnated as the Son of Man.
      > Sovereign
      > Universe Creator Jesus Christ Michael
      > All modern religions have seriously blundered in the attempt
      to put a
      > miraculous interpretation on certain epochs of human history.
      While it
      > is true that God has many times thrust a Father's hand of
      > intervention into the stream of human affairs, it is a
      mistake to
      > regard theologic dogmas and religious superstition as a
      > sedimentation appearing by miraculous action in this stream
      of human
      > history. The fact that the "Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of
      > does not convert secular history into so-called sacred
      > New Testament authors and later Christian
      writers further complicated
      > the distortion of Hebrew history by their
      well-meant attempts to
      > transcendentalize the Jewish prophets. Thus has
      Hebrew history been
      > disastrously exploited by both Jewish and Christian
      writers. Secular
      > Hebrew history has been thoroughly dogmatized. It has
      been converted
      > into a fiction of sacred history and has become
      inextricably bound up
      > with the moral concepts and religious teachings of
      the so-called
      > Christian nations. [Christianity today is only meagerly
      > but
      > it is slowly progressing and is now quivering on
      the brink of a great
      > spiritual Renaissance of personal God-consciousness
      and a glimpse of
      > one's final Eternal Paradise Destiny in our loving
      Father God in Jesus
      > in Spirit !]
      > A brief recital of the
      high points in Hebrew history will illustrate
      > how the facts of the
      record were so altered in Babylon by the Jewish
      > priests as to turn the
      everyday secular history of their people into a
      > fictitious and sacred
      > There never were
      twelve tribes of the Israelites -- only three or four
      > tribes settled in
      Palestine. The Hebrew nation came into being as the
      > result of the union
      of the so-called Israelites and the Canaanites.
      > "And the children of
      Israel dwelt among the Canaanites. And they took
      > their
      > daughters
      to be their wives and gave their daughters to the sons of
      > the
      Canaanites." The Hebrews never drove the Canaanites out of Palestine,
      notwithstanding that the priests' record of these things
      > declared that they did.
      > The
      Israelitish consciousness took origin in the hill country of
      > Ephraim;
      the later Jewish consciousness originated in the southern
      > clan
      of Judah. The Jews (Judahites) always sought to defame and blacken the
      record of the northern Israelites (Ephraimites).
      > Page-1072
      Pretentious Hebrew history begins with Saul's rallying the
      > clans to withstand an attack by the Ammonites upon their
      > tribesmen -- the Gileadites -- east of the Jordan. With an army
      of a
      > little more than three thousand he defeated the enemy, and it was
      > exploit that led the hill tribes to make him king. When the
      > priests rewrote this story, they raised Saul's army to 330,000
      > added "Judah" to the list of tribes participating in the
      > Immediately following the defeat of the
      Ammonites, Saul was made king
      > by popular election by his troops. No
      priest or prophet participated
      > in
      > this affair. But the priests
      later on put it in the record that Saul
      > was crowned king by the prophet
      Samuel in accordance with divine
      > directions. This they did in order to
      establish a "divine line of
      > descent" for David's Judahite
      > The greatest of all distortions of Jewish
      history had to do with
      > David. After Saul's victory over the Ammonites
      (which he ascribed to
      > Yahweh) the Philistines became alarmed and began
      attacks on the
      > northern clans. David and Saul never could agree. David
      with six
      > hundred men
      > entered into a Philistine alliance and
      marched up the coast to
      > Esdraelon. At Gath the Philistines ordered David
      off the field; they
      > feared he might go over to Saul. David retired; the
      > attacked and defeated Saul. They could not have done this
      had David
      > been loyal
      > to Israel. David's army was a polyglot
      assortment of malcontents,
      > being
      > for the most part made up of
      social misfits and fugitives from
      > justice.
      Saul's tragic defeat at Gilboa by the Philistines brought Yahweh to a
      low point among the gods in the eyes of the surrounding Canaanites.
      Ordinarily, Saul's defeat would have been ascribed to apostasy from
      Yahweh, but this time the Judahite editors attributed it to ritual
      errors. They required the tradition of Saul and Samuel as a background
      for the kingship of David.
      > David with his small army
      made his headquarters at the non-Hebrew
      > city of Hebron. Presently his
      compatriots proclaimed him king of the
      > new
      > kingdom of Judah.
      Judah was made up mostly of non-Hebrew elements --
      > Kenites, Calebites,
      Jebusites, and other Canaanites. They were nomads
      > -- herders -- and so
      were devoted to the Hebrew idea of land
      > ownership.
      > They held the
      ideologies of the desert clans.
      > The difference between sacred
      and profane history is well illustrated
      > by the two differing stories
      concerning making David king as they are
      > found in the Old Testament.
      [!!] A part of the secular story of how
      > his
      > immediate followers
      (his army) made him king was inadvertently left in
      > the record by the
      priests who subsequently prepared the lengthy and
      > prosaic account of the
      sacred history wherein is depicted how the
      > prophet Samuel, by divine
      direction, selected David from among his
      > brethren and proceeded formally
      and by elaborate and solemn ceremonies
      > to anoint him king over the
      Hebrews and then to proclaim him Saul's
      > So many times did the priests, after
      preparing their fictitious
      > narratives of God's miraculous dealings with
      Israel, fail fully to
      > delete the plain and matter-of-fact statements
      which already rested in
      > the records. [Check the Old Testament
      discrepancies for yourself and
      > you will see this truth is as stated
      > David sought to build himself up politically by
      first marrying Saul's
      > daughter, then the widow of Nabal the rich
      Edomite, and then the
      > daughter of Talmai, the king of Geshur. He took
      six wives from the
      > women of Jebus, not to mention Bathsheba, the wife of
      the Hittite.
      > Page-1073 And it was by such methods and out of
      such people that
      > David built up
      > the fiction of a divine kingdom
      of Judah as the successor of the
      > heritage and traditions of the
      vanishing northern kingdom of
      > Ephraimite
      > Israel. David's
      cosmopolitan tribe of Judah was more gentile than
      > Jewish; nevertheless
      the oppressed elders of Ephraim came down and
      > "anointed him king of
      Israel." After a military threat, David then
      > made a compact with the
      Jebusites and established his capital of the
      > united
      > kingdom at
      Jebus (Jerusalem), which was a strong-walled city midway
      > between Judah
      and Israel. The Philistines were aroused and soon
      > attacked David. After
      a fierce battle they were defeated, and once
      > more Yahweh
      > was
      established as "The Lord God of Hosts."
      > But Yahweh must,
      perforce, share some of this glory with the
      > Canaanite gods, for the bulk
      of David's army was non-Hebrew. And so
      > there appears in your record (
      overlooked by the Judahite editors )
      > this telltale
      > statement:
      "Yahweh has broken my enemies before me. Therefore he
      > called
      > the
      name of the place Baal-Perazim." And they did this because eighty
      > per
      cent of David's soldiers were Baalites.
      > David explained
      Saul's defeat at Gilboa by pointing out that Saul had
      > attacked a
      Canaanite city, Gibeon, whose people had a peace treaty
      > with
      > the
      Ephraimites. Because of this, Yahweh forsook him. Even in Saul's
      > time
      David had defended the Canaanite city of Keilah against the
      > Philistines,
      and then he located his capital in a Canaanite city. In
      > keeping with the
      policy of compromise with the Canaanites, David
      > turned
      > seven of
      Saul's descendants over to the Gibeonites to be hanged.
      After the defeat of the Philistines, David gained possession of the
      > "ark
      of Yahweh," brought it to Jerusalem, and made the worship of
      > Yahweh
      official for his kingdom. He next laid heavy tribute on the
      > neighboring
      tribes -- the Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, and Syrians.
      > David's corrupt political machine began to get
      personal possession of
      > land in the north in violation of. the Hebrew
      mores and presently
      > gained control of the caravan tariffs formerly
      collected by the
      > Philistines.
      > And then came a series of
      atrocities climaxed by the murder of Uriah.
      > All judicial appeals were
      adjudicated at Jerusalem; no longer could
      > "the elders" mete out justice.
      No wonder rebellion broke out. Today,
      > Absalom might be called a
      demagogue; his mother was a Canaanite.
      > There were a
      > half dozen
      contenders for the throne besides the son of Bathsheba --
      > After David's death Solomon purged the political
      machine of all
      > northern influences but continued all of the tyranny and
      taxation of
      > his
      > father's regime. Solomon bankrupted the nation
      by his lavish court and
      > by his elaborate building program: There was the
      house of Lebanon, the
      > palace of Pharaoh's daughter, the temple of
      Yahweh, the king's palace,
      > and the restoration of the walls of many
      cities. Solomon created a
      > vast
      > Hebrew navy, operated by Syrian
      sailors and trading with all the
      > world.
      > His harem numbered
      almost one thousand.
      > By this time Yahweh's temple at Shiloh was
      discredited, and all the
      > worship of the nation was centered at Jebus in
      the gorgeous royal
      > chapel. The northern kingdom returned more to the
      worship of Elohim.
      > They enjoyed the favor of the Pharaohs, who later
      enslaved Judah,
      > putting the southern kingdom under
      > There were ups and downs -- wars between Israel
      and Judah. After four
      > years of civil war and three dynasties, Israel
      fell under the rule of
      > city despots who began to trade in land. Even
      King Omri attempted to
      > buy Shemer's estate. But the end drew on apace
      when Shalmaneser III
      > decided to control the Mediterranean coast. King
      Ahab of Ephraim
      > gathered ten
      > other groups and resisted at
      Karkar; the battle was a draw. The
      > Assyrian was stopped but the allies
      were decimated. This great fight
      > is not even mentioned in the Old
      > Page-1074 New trouble started when King Ahab
      tried to buy land from
      > Naboth. His
      > Phoenician wife forged Ahab's
      name to papers directing that Naboth's
      > land be confiscated on the charge
      that he had blasphemed the names of
      > "Elohim and the king." He and his
      sons were promptly executed. The
      > vigorous Elijah appeared on the scene
      denouncing Ahab for the murder
      > of
      > the Naboths. Thus Elijah, one
      of the greatest of the prophets, began
      > his teaching as a defender of the
      old land mores as against the
      > land-selling attitude of the Baalim,
      against the attempt of the cities
      > to dominate the country. But the
      reform did not succeed until the
      > country landlord Jehu joined forces
      with the gypsy chieftain Jehonadab
      > to destroy the prophets (real estate
      agents) of Baal at Samaria.
      > New life appeared as Jehoash and his
      son Jeroboam delivered Israel
      > from
      > its enemies. But by this time
      there ruled in Samaria a
      > gangster-nobility whose depredations rivaled
      those of the Davidic
      > dynasty of olden days.
      > State and church
      went along hand in hand. The attempt to suppress
      > freedom of speech led
      Elijah, Amos, and Hosea to begin their secret
      > writing, and this was the
      real beginning of the Jewish and Christian
      > Bibles.
      > But
      the northern kingdom did not vanish from history until the king of
      Israel conspired with the king of Egypt and refused to pay further
      tribute to Assyria. Then began the three years' siege followed by the
      total dispersion of the northern kingdom. Ephraim (Israel) thus
      vanished. Judah -- the Jews, the "remnant of Israel" -- had begun the
      concentration of land in the hands of the few, as Isaiah said, "Adding
      house to house and field to field." Presently there was in Jerusalem a
      temple of Baal alongside the temple of Yahweh. This reign of terror
      > ended by a monotheistic revolt led by the boy king Joash, who
      > for Yahweh for thirty-five years.
      > The
      next king Amaziah, had trouble with the revolting tax-paying
      > Edomites
      and their neighbors. After a signal victory he turned to
      > attack his
      northern neighbors and was just as signally defeated. Then
      > the
      rural folk revolted; they assassinated the king and put his
      sixteen-year-old son on the throne. This was Azariah, called Uzziah by
      Isaiah. After Uzziah, things went from bad to worse, and Judah existed
      for a hundred years by paying tribute to the kings of Assyria. Isaiah
      the first told them that Jerusalem, being the city of Yahweh, would
      never fall. But Jeremiah did not hesitate to proclaim its downfall.
      > The real undoing of Judah was effected by a corrupt
      and rich ring of
      > politicians operating under the rule of a boy king,
      Manasseh. The
      > changing economy favored the return of the worship of
      Baal, whose
      > private land dealings were against the ideology of Yahweh.
      The fall of
      > Assyria and the ascendency of Egypt brought deliverance to
      Judah for a
      > time, and the country folk took over. Under Josiah they
      destroyed the
      > Jerusalem ring of corrupt
      > But this era came to a tragic end when
      Josiah presumed to go out to
      > intercept Necho's mighty army as it moved
      up the coast from Egypt for
      > the aid of Assyria against Babylon. He was
      wiped out, and Judah went
      > under tribute to Egypt. The Baal political
      party returned to power in
      > Jerusalem, and thus began the real Egyptian
      bondage. Then ensued a
      > period in which the Baalim politicians controlled
      both the courts and
      > the priesthood. Baal worship was an economic and
      social system dealing
      > with property rights as well as having to do with
      soil fertility.
      > Page-1075 With the overthrow of Necho by
      Nebuchadnezzar, Judah fell
      > under the
      > rule of Babylon and was
      given ten years of grace, but soon rebelled.
      > When Nebuchadnezzar came
      against them, the Judahites started social
      > reforms, such as releasing
      slaves, to influence Yahweh. When the
      > Babylonian army temporarily
      withdrew, the Hebrews rejoiced that their
      > magic of reform had delivered
      them. It was during this period that
      > Jeremiah told them of the impending
      doom, and presently Nebuchadnezzar
      > returned.
      > And
      so the end of Judah came suddenly. The city was destroyed, and
      > the
      people were carried away into Babylon. The Yahweh-Baal struggle
      > with the captivity. And the captivity shocked the remnant of
      > into monotheism. [ Good ! The Truth of One Triune Deity; think of
      > Existential Paradise Trinity as UNITY first; and Three
      > Deity
      > Persons second. Later in this long
      presentation; we will cover
      > advanced
      > Revealed Trinity concepts
      in great detail; still later a new 775 page
      > detailed Revelation of the
      supernal Life and Teachings of our
      > Incarnate
      > God-Man Jesus
      > In Babylon the Jews arrived at the conclusion that they could
      > exist
      > as a small group in Palestine, having their own
      peculiar social and
      > economic customs, and that, if their ideologies were
      to prevail, they
      > must convert the gentiles. Thus originated their new
      concept of
      > destiny
      > -- the idea that the Jews must become the
      chosen servants of Yahweh.
      > The Jewish religion of the Old Testament
      really evolved in Babylon
      > during
      > the
      > The doctrine of immortality also took form at
      Babylon. The Jews had
      > thought that the idea of the future life detracted
      from the emphasis
      > of
      > their gospel of social justice. Now for the
      first time theology
      > displaced sociology and economics. Religion was
      taking shape as a
      > system of human thought and conduct more and more to
      be separated
      > from
      > politics, sociology, and
      > And so does the truth about the Jewish people
      disclose that much which
      > has been regarded as sacred history turns out
      to be little more than
      > the chronicle of ordinary profane history.
      Judaism was the soil out
      > of
      > which Christianity grew, but the
      Jews were not a miraculous people.
      > 10. THE HEBREW
      > Their leaders had taught the Israelites that they were
      a chosen
      > people,
      > not for special indulgence and monopoly of
      divine favor, but for the
      > special service of carrying the truth of the
      one God over all to every
      > nation. And they had promised the Jews that,
      if they would fulfill
      > this
      > destiny, they would become the
      spiritual leaders of all peoples, and
      > that the coming Messiah would
      reign over them and all the world as the
      > Prince of
      > When the Jews had been freed by the Persians,
      they returned to
      > Palestine only to fall into bondage to their own
      priest-ridden code of
      > laws, sacrifices, and rituals. And as the Hebrew
      clans rejected the
      > wonderful story of God presented in the farewell
      oration of Moses for
      > the rituals of sacrifice and penance, so did these
      remnants of the
      > Hebrew nation reject the magnificent concept of the
      second Isaiah for
      > the rules, regulations, and rituals of their growing
      > National egotism, false faith in a
      misconceived promised Messiah, and
      > the increasing bondage and tyranny of
      the priesthood forever silenced
      > the voices of the spiritual leaders
      (excepting Daniel, Ezekiel,
      > Haggai,
      > and Malachi); and from that
      day to the time of John the Baptist all
      > Israel experienced an increasing
      spiritual retrogression. But the Jews
      > never lost the concept of the
      Universal Father; even to the twentieth
      > century after Christ they have
      continued to follow this Deity
      > conception.
      > Page-1076
      From Moses to John the Baptist there extended an unbroken
      > line
      > faithful teachers who passed the monotheistic torch of light from
      > generation to another while they unceasingly rebuked
      > rulers, denounced commercializing priests, and ever
      exhorted the
      > people
      > to adhere to the worship of the supreme
      Yahweh, the Lord God of
      > Israel.
      > As a nation the Jews
      eventually lost their political identity, but the
      > Hebrew religion of
      sincere belief in the one and universal God
      > continues to live in the
      hearts of the scattered exiles. And this
      > religion
      > survives
      because it has effectively functioned to conserve the highest
      > values of
      its followers. The Jewish religion did preserve the ideals
      > of a people,
      but it failed to foster progress and encourage
      > philosophic
      creative discovery in the realms of truth. The Jewish religion had
      > faults -- it was deficient in philosophy and almost devoid
      > aesthetic
      > qualities -- but it did conserve moral values;
      therefore it persisted.
      > The supreme Yahweh, as compared with other
      concepts of Deity, was
      > clear-cut, vivid, personal, and moral. [Today,
      the Western, Christian
      > world must carefully preserve and strengthen
      moral values or Western
      > society will be overcome by the more strict
      Islamic morality ! Godless
      > secular humanism, hedonism and atheism must
      be defeated !]
      > The Jews loved justice, wisdom, truth,
      and righteousness as have few
      > peoples, but they contributed least of all
      peoples to the intellectual
      > comprehension and to the spiritual
      understanding of these divine
      > qualities. Though Hebrew theology refused
      to expand, it played an
      > important part in the development of two other
      world religions,
      > Christianity and Mohammedanism.
      The Jewish religion persisted also because of its institutions. It is
      difficult for religion to survive as the private practice of isolated
      individuals. This has ever been the error of the religious leaders:
      Seeing the evils of institutionalized religion, they seek to destroy
      > the
      technique of group functioning. In place of destroying all
      > ritual, they
      would do better to reform it. In this respect Ezekiel
      > was wiser
      > his contemporaries; though he joined with them in insisting
      > personal
      > moral responsibility, he also set about to establish
      the faithful
      > observance of a superior and purified
      > And thus the successive teachers of Israel accomplished
      the greatest
      > feat in the evolution of religion ever to be effected on
      Earth: the
      > gradual but continuous transformation of the barbaric concept
      of the
      > savage demon Yahweh, the jealous and cruel spirit god of
      > fulminating Sinai volcano, to the later exalted and supernal
      > of the supreme Yahweh, creator of all things and the loving
      > merciful Father of all mankind. And this Hebraic concept of God
      > the highest human
      > visualization of the Universal Father up
      to that time when it was
      > further enlarged and so exquisitely amplified
      by the personal
      > teachings
      > and life example of his Son, [Jesus
      Christ] Michael of Nebadon.
      > [Presented by a Melchizedek of
      > Peace and progress in Spirit and in Father-Son
      > Brother Dave
      > http://www.blogtalkradio.com/brother-dave0137
      Each Saturday & Sunday 3PM CST live internet radio show
      > All past
      shows are archived there to play.
      > http://www.PureChristians.org/ or http://www.LedByJesus.org/
      > PURE:
      Positive! Universal! Revealing! Enthusiastic! CHRISTIANS LED BY
      > Gospel enlarging website,proclaiming worldwide the True
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian-Philosophy/
      Our large Christian-Philosophy Yahoo Group
      > Come learn and share
      in one or all !
      > From: RalphM <mailto:ralphmusseau%40yahoo.com>
      To: mailto:Christian-Philosophy%40yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 9:17 PM
      > Subject: [Christian-Philosophy]
      Re: I don't understand... - Knowing
      > Truth
      > I guess what mean
      is; he is not done with them yet...they are still
      > part of his
      plan....they still have a job to do, atleast some of them
      > do, 144,000 to
      be exact.
      > Revelations 1-8
      > 7 After this I saw
      four angels standing at the four corners of the
      > earth, holding back the
      four winds of the earth to prevent any wind
      > from blowing on the land or
      on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw
      > another angel coming up from the
      east, having the seal of the living
      > God. He called out in a loud voice
      to the four angels who had been
      > given power to harm the land and the
      sea: 3 "Do not harm the land or
      > the sea or the trees until we put a seal
      on the foreheads of the
      > servants of our God." 4 Then I heard the number
      of those who were
      > sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of
      > 5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were
      > from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
      > from
      the tribe of Gad 12,000,
      > 6 from the tribe of Asher
      > from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
      > from
      the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
      > 7 from the tribe of Simeon
      > from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
      > from the
      tribe of Issachar 12,000,
      > 8 from the tribe of Zebulun
      > from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
      > from
      the tribe of Benjamin 12,000
      > --- In mailto:Christian-Philosophy%40yahoogroups.com,
      Brother Dave
      > <truthist@...>
      >> From: RalphM
      >> To: mailto:Christian-Philosophy%40yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:19 PM
      >> Subject:
      [Christian-Philosophy] Re: I don't understand... - Knowing
      >> Truth
      >>> Nervertheless that is the way God choose
      >>> deal with the stiffed necked adultours
      >>> I think there blessed he just didn't destroy
      >>> all and start again....but they are a big part
      >>> his plan of salvation for the human
      >> Hi Ralph,
      >> Interesting. How
      are the Jews or Israelis still a part of God's plan
      >> of salvation for
      the human race? Yes, 4,000 years ago -on, they
      >> were to carry the
      Melchizedek Revelation of God to the world; and
      >> that was partly
      done; but they failed to believe in Jesus Christ;
      >> and they largely
      rejected Him. Today, Israel is almost totally
      >> secular; with few
      religious Jews and much fewer Jews for Jesus. The
      >> vast majority of
      Christians today are all Gentiles.
      >> Brother
      >> --- In mailto:Christian-Philosophy%40yahoogroups.com,
      Brother Dave
      >> <truthist@>
      >>> To Ralph
      M and all, My new comments in blue font are interspersed
      >>> in
      Ralph's email below.
      >>> From: RalphM
      >>> To: mailto:Christian-Philosophy%40yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 5:26 PM
      >>> Subject:
      [Christian-Philosophy] Re: I don't understand the Garden
      >>> of Eden
      - knowing Truth ...
      >>>> Isn't all scripture God breathed....no one scripture
      holds any
      >>>> more weight than the other...we must watch out.
      love you man.....
      >>> All scripture, other than the exact words of
      Jesus Christ has human
      >>> belief errors included. Every phrase,
      verse, section, book in
      >>> all of the Bible must be evaluated in
      the Light of Truth -- with
      >>> and in Jesus Christ here in Spirit.
      Please read now Numbers chapter
      >>> 5 and you tell me if you believe
      that God really commanded that any
      >>> male husband or lover, if he
      thought that his wife or lover
      >>> committed adultery, must take her
      to a Jewish priest. The priest
      >>> must sweep up the filthy dirt on
      the floor and force the wife or
      >>> woman to eat it ! If she died
      from her thighs and belly rotting
      >>> off, she was guilty; if not,
      she was innocent. Two more serious
      >>> problems with this
      barbaric, UNGODLY behavior: The husband could
      >>> make her take
      this "test of adultery" every day until she died a
      >>> few days or
      weeks later ! And men were NEVER required to take
      >>> this
      adultery test !  Do you still claim that is holy, true,
      just, inspired and just as important as Isa 9:6 or John chapters
      1 and 17 ? Please explain.
      >>>> Ephesians
      4:14-1514 [14-15 probably] That we henceforth be no more
      children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of
      >>>> doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness,
      >>>> they lie in wait to deceive;15 But speaking the
      truth in love, may
      >>>> grow up into him in all things, which is
      the head, even Christ:
      >>>> "And he said, That
      which cometh out of the man, that defileth the
      >>>> man. For from
      within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil
      >>>> thoughts,
      adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness,
      wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride,
      >>>> foolishness: All these evil things come from within,
      and defile
      >>>> the man." Mark 7:20-23, KJV
      >>> Jesus
      Christ never taught that the "evil eye" was real ! That
      >>> came
      from very old, primitive ghost fear beliefs of ancient
      humans. See Mark 7:22 and this revelation.
       The Urantia Book PAPER 87 THE GHOST CULTS
       Section 5. THE ADVANCING GHOST CULT pages 962-963ÂÂ
      >>> [my added comments are in these
      square brackets. All of the text of
      >>> this Fifth Epochal
      Revelation of Truth is in the public domain;
      >>> thus you may freely
      share that text with others. My added text is
      >>> in these
      >>> brackets.]
      >>> Primitive man
      viewed the spirits and ghosts as having almost
      >>> rights but no duties; the spirits were thought to
      regard man as
      >>> having
      >>> manifold duties but no
      rights. The spirits were believed to look
      >>> down
      upon man as constantly failing in the discharge of his spiritual
      duties. It was the general belief of mankind that ghosts levied a
      >>> continuous
      >>> tribute of service as the price of
      noninterference in human
      >>> affairs, and the least mischance was
      laid to ghost activities.
      >>> Early humans were so
      afraid they might overlook some honor due the gods that, after they
      >>> had
      >>> sacrificed to all known spirits, they
      did another turn to the
      >>> "unknown
      >>> gods," just to
      be thoroughly safe.
      >>> And now the simple ghost cult is followed by
      the practices of the
      >>> more advanced and relatively complex
      spirit-ghost cult, the
      >>> service and
      >>> worship of
      the higher spirits as they evolved in man's primitive
      imagination. Religious ceremonial must keep pace with spirit
      >>> and progress. The expanded cult was but the art of
      >>> practiced in relation to belief in supernatural
      >>> self-adjustment
      >>> to spirit environment.
      Industrial and military organizations were
      >>> adjustments to
      natural and social environments. And as marriage
      >>> arose to meet
      the demands of bisexuality, [two opposite sexes,
      >>> male and
      >>> so did religious organization evolve in response to the
      belief in
      >>> higher spirit forces and spiritual beings. Religion
      >>> man's
      >>> adjustment to his illusions of
      the mystery of chance. Spirit fear
      >>> and
      subsequent worship were adopted as insurance against misfortune, as
      >>> prosperity policies.
      >>> The savage visualizes
      the good spirits as going about their
      >>> business,
      requiring little from human beings. It is the bad ghosts and
      spirits who must be kept in good humor. Accordingly, primitive
      peoples paid more
      >>> attention to their malevolent ghosts than to
      their benign spirits.
      >>> Human prosperity was supposed to be
      especially provocative of the
      >>> envy of evil spirits, and their
      method of retaliation was to
      >>> strike back
      >>> through
      a human agency and by the technique of theevil eye. That
      >>> phase
      of the cult which had to do with spirit avoidance was much
      concerned with the machinations of the evil eye. The fear of it
      >>> almost world-wide. Pretty women were veiled to protect
      them from the
      >>> evil eye; subsequently many women who desired to
      be considered
      >>> beautiful adopted this practice. Because of this
      fear of bad
      >>> spirits, children
      >>> were seldom
      allowed out after dark, and the early prayers always
      >>> included
      the petition, "deliver us from the evil eye."
      >>> The Koran contains
      a whole chapter devoted to the evil eye and magic
      >>> spells, and
      the Jews fully believed in them. The whole phallic cult
      >>> grew up
      as a defense against evil eye. The organs of reproduction
      >>> thought to be the only fetish which could render it
      powerless. The
      >>> evil
      >>> eye gave origin to the first
      superstitions respecting prenatal
      >>> marking
      >>> of
      children, maternal impressions, and the cult was at one time
      well-nigh universal. [and the Jews put that in the Christian
      Bible as being real !!]
      >>> Envy is a deep-seated
      human trait; therefore did primitive man
      >>> ascribe
      it to his early gods. And since man had once practiced deception
      >>> the ghosts, he soon began to deceive the spirits. Said he,
      "If the
      >>> spirits are jealous of our beauty and prosperity, we
      will disfigure
      >>> ourselves and speak lightly of our success."
      Early humility was not,
      >>> therefore, debasement of ego but rather
      an attempt to foil and
      >>> deceive
      >>> the envious
      >>> The method adopted to prevent the spirits from becoming
      jealous of
      >>> human prosperity was to heap vituperation [abusive
      speech] upon some
      >>> lucky or much loved thing or person. The
      custom of depreciating
      >>> complimentary remarks regarding oneself
      or family had its origin in
      >>> this way, and it eventually evolved
      into civilized modesty,
      >>> restraint, and
      >>> courtesy.
      In keeping with the same motive, it became the fashion to
      >>> look
      ugly. Beauty aroused the envy of spirits; it betokened sinful
      >>> pride. The savage sought for an ugly name. This feature of
      the cult
      >>> was a great handicap to the advancement of art, and it
      long kept
      >>> the world
      >>> somber and
      >>> Under the spirit cult, life was at best a gamble, the
      result of
      >>> spirit
      >>> control. One's future was not
      the result of effort, industry, or
      >>> talent
      >>> except
      as they might be utilized to influence the spirits. The
      ceremonies of spirit propitiation constituted a heavy burden,
      >>> life tedious and virtually unendurable. From age to
      age and from
      >>> generation to generation, race after race has
      sought to improve this
      >>> superghost doctrine, but no generation
      has ever yet dared to wholly
      >>> reject it.
      >>> The
      intention and will of the spirits were studied by means of
      >>> oracles, and signs. And these spirit messages were
      interpreted by
      >>> divination, soothsaying, magic, ordeals, and
      astrology. The whole
      >>> cult
      >>> was a scheme designed
      to placate, satisfy, and buy off the spirits
      >>> through this
      disguised bribery.
      >>> And thus there grew up a new and expanded
      world philosophy
      >>> consisting in:
      >>> 1. Duty -- those
      things which must be done to keep the spirits
      >>> favorably
      disposed, at least neutral.
      >>> 2. Right -- the correct conduct and
      ceremonies designed to win the
      >>> spirits actively to one's
      >>> 3. Truth -- the correct understanding of, and
      attitude toward,
      >>> spirits, and hence toward life and
      >>> It was not merely out of curiosity that the ancients
      sought to know
      >>> the
      >>> future; they wanted to dodge
      ill luck. Divination was simply an
      >>> attempt
      >>> to
      avoid trouble. During these times, dreams were regarded as
      prophetic, while everything out of the ordinary was considered an
      >>> omen. And even
      >>> today the civilized races are
      cursed with the belief in signs,
      >>> tokens,
      >>> and
      other superstitious remnants of the advancing ghost cult of
      >>> old.
      Slow, very slow, is man to abandon those methods whereby he so
      gradually and painfully ascended the evolutionary scale of life.
      [Educating more seeking humans with this mighty Epochal Revelation
      >>> will help advance all
      >>> On Clean Hearts and Defiled Hearts see
      Mark 7:20-23 and all of the
      >>> following:
      >>> PAPER 149
      >>> 2. ATTITUDE OF THE
      PEOPLE [in part] pages 1671-1672
      >>> As Jesus
      mingled with the people, they found him entirely free from
      >>> superstitions of that day. He was free from religious
      >>> he was never intolerant. He had nothing in his heart
      >>> social
      >>> antagonism. While he complied
      with the good in the religion of his
      >>> fathers, he did not
      hesitate to disregard man-made traditions of
      >>> superstition and
      bondage. He dared to teach that catastrophes of
      >>> nature,
      accidents of time, and other calamitous happenings are not
      visitations of divine judgments or mysterious dispensations of
      Providence. He denounced slavish devotion to meaningless
      ceremonials and exposed the fallacy of materialistic worship. He
      boldly proclaimed
      >>> man's spiritual freedom and dared to teach
      that mortals of the
      >>> flesh are indeed and in truth sons of the
      living God. [!!!]
      >>> Jesus transcended all the teachings of his
      forebears when he boldly
      >>> substituted clean hearts for clean
      hands as the mark of true
      >>> religion.
      >>> He put
      reality in the place of tradition and swept aside all
      pretensions of vanity and hypocrisy. And yet this fearless man of
      >>> God did not give
      >>> vent to destructive
      criticism or manifest an utter disregard of the
      >>> religious,
      social, economic, and political usages of his day. He
      >>> was not a
      militant revolutionist; he was a progressive
      >>> evolutionist. He
      engaged in the destruction of that which was only
      >>> when he
      simultaneously offered his fellows the superior thing which
      ought to be.
      >>> Jesus received the obedience of his followers
      without exacting it.
      >>> Only
      >>> three men who received
      his personal call refused to accept the
      >>> invitation to
      discipleship. He exercised a peculiar drawing power
      >>> men, but he was not dictatorial. He commanded confidence,
      and no man
      >>> ever resented his giving a command. He assumed
      absolute authority
      >>> over
      >>> his disciples, but no
      one ever objected. He permitted his followers
      >>> to
      call him Master.
      >>> The Master was admired by all who met him
      except by those who
      >>> entertained deep-seated religious prejudices
      or those who thought
      >>> they
      >>> discerned political
      dangers in his teachings. Men were astonished
      >>> at the originality
      and authoritativeness of his teaching. They
      >>> marveled at his
      patience in dealing with backward and troublesome
      >>> inquirers.
      >>> inspired hope and confidence in the hearts of all who came
      under his
      >>> ministry. Only those who had not met him feared him,
      and he was
      >>> hated
      >>> only by those who regarded him
      as the champion of that truth which
      >>> was
      >>> destined
      to overthrow the evil and error which they had determined
      >>> hold in their hearts at all cost.
      >>> On both
      friends and foes he exercised a strong and peculiarly
      fascinating influence. Multitudes would follow him for weeks, just
      >>> to
      >>> hear his gracious words and behold his
      simple life. Devoted men and
      >>> women loved Jesus with a well-nigh
      superhuman affection. And the
      >>> better they knew him the more they
      loved him. And all this is still
      >>> true; even today and in all
      future ages, the more man comes to know
      >>> this
      >>> the more he will love and follow after him. [Yes ! Amen
      >>> 3. THE AFTER
      >>> Page 1712 Many were the questions asked
      Jesus during this after
      >>> meeting. Some were asked by his
      perplexed disciples, but more were
      >>> asked by
      caviling [quibbling, trifling objections] unbelievers who sought
      only to embarrass and entrap him.
      >>> One of the visiting Pharisees,
      mounting a lampstand, shouted out
      >>> this
      >>> question:
      "You tell us that you are the bread of life. How can you
      >>> us your flesh to eat or your blood to drink? What avail is
      >>> teaching if it cannot be carried out?" And Jesus answered
      >>> question, saying: "I did not teach you that my flesh is the
      >>> of life nor that
      >>> my blood is the water
      thereof. But I did say that my life in the
      >>> flesh
      is a bestowal of the bread of heaven. The fact of the Word of God
      >>> bestowed in the flesh and the phenomenon of the Son of Man
      >>> to
      >>> the will of God, constitute a reality
      of experience which is
      >>> equivalent
      >>> to the divine
      sustenance. You cannot eat my flesh nor can you drink
      >>> blood, but you can become one in spirit with me even as I am
      one in
      >>> spirit with the Father. [!!] You can be nourished by the
      >>> word of God, which is indeed the bread of life, and
      which has been
      >>> bestowed in
      >>> the likeness of
      mortal flesh; and you can be watered in soul by the
      >>> divine
      spirit, which is truly the water of life. The Father has
      >>> sent
      >>> into the world to show how he desires to indwell and direct
      >>> men; and I have so lived this life in the flesh as to
      inspire all
      >>> men likewise
      >>> ever to seek to know
      and do the will of the indwelling heavenly
      >>> Then one of the Jerusalem spies who had been observing
      Jesus and his
      >>> apostles, said: "We notice that neither you nor
      your apostles wash
      >>> your
      >>> hands properly before
      you eat bread. You must well know that such a
      >>> practice as eating
      with defiled and unwashed hands is a
      >>> transgression of the law of
      the elders. Neither do you properly
      >>> wash your drinking
      >>> and eating vessels. Why is it that you show such disrespect
      for the
      >>> traditions of the fathers and the laws of our elders?"
      And when
      >>> Jesus
      >>> heard him speak, he answered:
      "Why is it that you transgress the
      >>> commandments of God by the
      laws of your tradition? The commandment
      >>> says, 'Honor your father
      and your mother,' and directs that you
      >>> share
      >>> them your substance if necessary; but you enact a law of
      >>> which permits undutiful children to say that the money
      >>> the parents
      >>> might have been assisted
      has been 'given to God.' The law of the
      >>> elders
      thus relieves such crafty children of their responsibility,
      notwithstanding that the children subsequently use all such monies
      >>> for
      >>> their own comfort. Why is it that you
      in this way make void the
      >>> commandment by your own tradition?
      Well did Isaiah prophesy of you
      >>> hypocrites, saying: 'This people
      honors me with their lips, but
      >>> their
      >>> heart is
      far from me. In vain do they worship me, teaching as their
      doctrines the precepts of men.'
      >>> "You can see how it is that you
      desert the commandment while you
      >>> hold
      >>> fast to
      the tradition of men. Altogether willing are you to reject
      >>> word of God while you maintain your own traditions. And in
      >>> other
      >>> ways do you dare to set up your own
      teachings above the law and the
      >>> prophets."
      >>> Jesus
      then directed his remarks to all present. He said: "But
      >>> hearken
      to me all of you. It is not that which enters into the
      >>> mouth
      >>> spiritually defiles the man, but rather that which proceeds
      out of
      >>> the
      >>> mouth and from the heart." But even
      the apostles failed fully to
      >>> grasp the meaning of his words, for
      Simon Peter also asked him:
      >>> "Lest
      >>> some of your
      hearers be unnecessarily offended, would you explain
      >>> to
      >>> the meaning of these words?" And then said Jesus to Peter:
      "Are you
      >>> also hard of understanding? Know you not that every
      plant which my
      >>> heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted
      up? Turn now your
      >>> attention to those who would know the truth.
      You cannot compel men
      >>> to
      >>> love the truth. Many of
      these teachers are blind guides. And you
      >>> know
      that, if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the pit. But
      >>> hearken while I tell you the truth concerning those things
      >>> morally defile and spiritually contaminate men. I declare
      it is not
      >>> that which
      >>> enters the body by the
      mouth or gains access to the mind through the
      >>> eyes and ears,
      that defiles the man. Man is only defiled by that
      >>> which may originate within the heart, and which finds
      expression in
      >>> the
      >>> words and deeds of such unholy
      persons. Do you not know it is from
      >>> the
      >>> heart
      that there come forth evil thoughts, wicked projects of
      >>> theft, and adulteries, together with jealousy, pride,
      >>> revenge,
      >>> railings, [bitter, violent
      complaining] and false witness? And it is
      >>> just such things that
      defile men, and not that they eat bread with
      >>> ceremonially
      unclean hands."
      >>> 1713 The Pharisaic commissioners of the
      Jerusalem Sanhedrin were now
      >>> almost convinced that Jesus must be
      apprehended on a charge of
      >>> blasphemy or on one of flouting the
      sacred law of the Jews;
      >>> wherefore their
      >>> efforts
      to involve him in the discussion of, and possible attack
      >>> some of the traditions of the elders, or so-called oral
      laws of the
      >>> nation. No matter how scarce water might be, these
      >>> enslaved Jews would never fail to go through with
      the required
      >>> ceremonial washing of the hands before every meal.
      It was their
      >>> belief
      >>> that "it is better to die
      than to transgress the commandments of the
      >>> elders." The spies
      asked this question because it had been reported
      >>> that Jesus had
      said, "Salvation is a matter of clean hearts rather
      >>> than
      >>> clean hands." But such beliefs, when they once become a part
      >>> one's
      >>> religion, are hard to get away from.
      Even many years after this day
      >>> the
      >>> Apostle Peter
      was still held in the bondage of fear to many of these
      traditions about things clean and unclean, only being finally
      >>> by experiencing an extraordinary and vivid dream. All
      of this can
      >>> the
      >>> better be understood when it is
      recalled that these Jews looked upon
      >>> eating with unwashed hands
      in the same light as commerce with a
      >>> harlot,
      >>> and
      both were equally punishable by excommunication. [even today,
      >>> Jews have kosher (ritual) food laws.]
      >>> Thus
      did the Master elect to discuss and expose the folly of the
      >>> rabbinic system of rules and regulations which was
      represented by
      >>> the
      >>> oral law -- the traditions of
      the elders, all of which were
      >>> regarded as
      >>> more
      sacred and more binding upon the Jews than even the teachings
      >>> the Scriptures. [!] And Jesus spoke out with less reserve
      because he
      >>> knew the hour had come when he could do nothing m

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