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Re: about The Japanese!

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  • juanjuan
    ... what you have to say. ... more than China needs Japan. If it wasn t for China opening its market to the world, Japan s economy would still be in a slump.
    Message 1 of 30 , May 5, 2005
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      --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
      <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
      > Terence,
      > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to hear
      what you have to say.
      >
      > Jane and all,
      > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs China
      more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening its
      market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a slump. So
      China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since Jusco
      needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to pay for
      your country's past. In addition to record profits in China, Jusco
      also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off China.
      Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the heat.
      >
      > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between Japan
      right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both of them
      are supported by the Japanese government.
      >
      > Roman.
      >

      Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was really
      great when he announced to all his people and the world he would
      fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e a long
      lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand why the
      Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes towards this
      imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the people over
      media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger towards
      it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what the
      Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during their
      occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for the time
      being.

      jane




      > Send instant messages to your online friends
      http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
    • greatwallmarathon
      Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing. Before 23 o clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside the building,two Japanese men were talking.When they
      Message 2 of 30 , May 5, 2005
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        Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
        Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside the
        building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they greeted
        me and asked where I had been.

        I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know their
        names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone in
        Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished my
        travel in this golden week.

        "Where have you been?"
        "Beijing,China".

        China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very complicated
        feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because Japan
        and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and trade.China
        is also a country they feel not understanding why so many Chinese
        people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese goods.This is
        just an example.

        So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases and had
        the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great Walls and
        Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese words
        and short sentences they can speak.

        After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I want to
        marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
        marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as the one
        to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and like
        having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me marry
        a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.

        This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all this,but
        I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the suggestion
        from their own experience and they own life.

        Our talk lasted till 0:30.

        Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't able
        to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest period for
        me.

        Most Truely
        Adam

        --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
        <yijane01@m...> wrote:
        > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
        > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
        > > Terence,
        > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to hear
        > what you have to say.
        > >
        > > Jane and all,
        > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs China
        > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening its
        > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a slump. So
        > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since Jusco
        > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to pay
        for
        > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China, Jusco
        > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off China.
        > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the heat.
        > >
        > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between Japan
        > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both of
        them
        > are supported by the Japanese government.
        > >
        > > Roman.
        > >
        >
        > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was really
        > great when he announced to all his people and the world he would
        > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e a long
        > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand why
        the
        > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes towards this
        > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the people
        over
        > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger towards
        > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what the
        > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during their
        > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for the
        time
        > being.
        >
        > jane
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > > Send instant messages to your online friends
        > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
      • liang_jieming
        That s a very interesting conversation you had with those two men! It s interesting to get an insight into what the people on the ground think and feel,
        Message 3 of 30 , May 5, 2005
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          That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two men!
          It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
          ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
          regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many Japanese
          don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming outpour
          of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post WW2
          generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in the
          war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a sampling of
          teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of Japanese
          wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions. Almost all
          expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented that they
          had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't remember who
          made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the streets
          of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese friends
          show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
          fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as just
          more Chinese propaganda.

          Jieming
          DragonSeedLegacy
          ChineseCultureOnline

          --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
          <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
          > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
          > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside the
          > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they greeted
          > me and asked where I had been.
          >
          > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know their
          > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone in
          > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished my
          > travel in this golden week.
          >
          > "Where have you been?"
          > "Beijing,China".
          >
          > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very complicated
          > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because Japan
          > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and trade.China
          > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many Chinese
          > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese goods.This is
          > just an example.
          >
          > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases and had
          > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great Walls and
          > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese words
          > and short sentences they can speak.
          >
          > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I want to
          > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
          > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as the one
          > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and like
          > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me marry
          > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
          >
          > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all this,but
          > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the suggestion
          > from their own experience and they own life.
          >
          > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
          >
          > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't able
          > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest period for
          > me.
          >
          > Most Truely
          > Adam
          >
          > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
          > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
          > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
          > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
          > > > Terence,
          > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to hear
          > > what you have to say.
          > > >
          > > > Jane and all,
          > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs China
          > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening its
          > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a slump. So
          > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since Jusco
          > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to pay
          > for
          > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China, Jusco
          > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off China.
          > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the heat.
          > > >
          > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between Japan
          > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both of
          > them
          > > are supported by the Japanese government.
          > > >
          > > > Roman.
          > > >
          > >
          > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was really
          > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he would
          > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e a long
          > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand why
          > the
          > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes towards this
          > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the people
          > over
          > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger towards
          > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what the
          > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during their
          > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for the
          > time
          > > being.
          > >
          > > jane
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
          > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
        • Roman Bates
          What did those 2 Japanese men mean by Japanese women like to have sex? ... How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with
          Message 4 of 30 , May 6, 2005
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            What did those 2 Japanese men mean by Japanese women like to have sex?
             
             


            How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos
          • juanjuan
            Don t tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If they can t read from their
            Message 5 of 30 , May 6, 2005
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              Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
              being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If
              they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern Japanese
              today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up other
              resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
              world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their country
              for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
              governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
              conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being innocent
              and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad happened to
              a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
              innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
              makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone stated
              the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't realize
              the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe their
              soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering Asians:?
              See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
              acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse to
              become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than happy to
              brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world concious
              people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive them.
              They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese bashing
              either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will forever
              live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or otherwise.
              We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but today the
              world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon and
              read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
              developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things from
              other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world for
              decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their porn
              industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht i
              heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from the
              market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from wht
              Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese wives.
              I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
              submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two Japanese
              men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only fromm
              two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people, I
              doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-minded
              or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just like
              those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
              they were once associated with and are still part of it.

              having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
              more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who else
              please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
              chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.

              jane



              --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
              <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
              > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two men!
              > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
              > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
              > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many
              Japanese
              > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming outpour
              > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post WW2
              > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in the
              > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a sampling
              of
              > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of Japanese
              > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions. Almost
              all
              > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented that they
              > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't remember
              who
              > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
              streets
              > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese friends
              > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
              > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as
              just
              > more Chinese propaganda.
              >
              > Jieming
              > DragonSeedLegacy
              > ChineseCultureOnline
              >
              > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
              > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
              > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
              > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside the
              > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
              greeted
              > > me and asked where I had been.
              > >
              > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know their
              > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone in
              > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished
              my
              > > travel in this golden week.
              > >
              > > "Where have you been?"
              > > "Beijing,China".
              > >
              > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
              complicated
              > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because
              Japan
              > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
              trade.China
              > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many Chinese
              > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese goods.This
              is
              > > just an example.
              > >
              > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases and
              had
              > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great Walls
              and
              > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese
              words
              > > and short sentences they can speak.
              > >
              > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
              want to
              > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
              > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as the
              one
              > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and like
              > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me
              marry
              > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
              > >
              > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
              this,but
              > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
              suggestion
              > > from their own experience and they own life.
              > >
              > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
              > >
              > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't
              able
              > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest period
              for
              > > me.
              > >
              > > Most Truely
              > > Adam
              > >
              > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
              > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
              > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
              > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
              > > > > Terence,
              > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to
              hear
              > > > what you have to say.
              > > > >
              > > > > Jane and all,
              > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs
              China
              > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening its
              > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a slump.
              So
              > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since
              Jusco
              > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to
              pay
              > > for
              > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China,
              Jusco
              > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off China.
              > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
              heat.
              > > > >
              > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between Japan
              > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both
              of
              > > them
              > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
              > > > >
              > > > > Roman.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
              really
              > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
              would
              > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e a
              long
              > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand
              why
              > > the
              > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes towards
              this
              > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
              people
              > > over
              > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
              towards
              > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what the
              > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during their
              > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for the
              > > time
              > > > being.
              > > >
              > > > jane
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
              > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
            • juanjuan
              Hi Li Ma! Are you still there? How was your May holiday? Did you travel? .... jane ... http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/yisou/music/*http://music.yisou.com /
              Message 6 of 30 , May 7, 2005
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                Hi Li Ma!

                Are you still there? How was your May holiday? Did you travel? ....

                jane

                --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, li ma <yezishu2002@y...>
                wrote:
                > Hello!Roman!
                >
                > > I disagree. Boycotting Japanese goods is really the
                > What I want to say is "Blindy Boycotting"
                > It is Japanese right wing that we should oppose
                > strongly.
                >
                >
                > > only effective way for the Chinese to show their
                > > disapproval of Japan's actions, past and present. It
                > > sends a message to Japan that the Chinese do not
                > > need Japanese investors. China is doing very well
                > > right now and can continue to do well even without
                > > Japanese investors, who are really in China to
                > > profit at the expense of Chinese investors as well
                > > as investors from other countries.
                >
                >
                > It is easy to say to refuse investment from Japan.
                > Actually, Beijing Subway and Beijing International
                > airport has been built by the loan of Japanese Yen.
                >
                > Building and keeping good relations between China
                > and Japan ,would benefit both during the gobal
                > morden economic times.
                > To recognize who are friend and enemy is the first
                > step to hold our ground and knock back toughly.
                > Mali/yezishu2002
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > 150ÍòÇúMP3·è¿ñËÑ£¬´øÄú´³ÈëÒôÀÖµîÌÃ
                >
                http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/yisou/music/*http://music.yisou.com
                /
                > ÃÀÅ®Ã÷ÐÇÓ¦Óо¡ÓУ¬ËѱéÃÀͼ¡¢ÑÞͼºÍ¿áͼ
                >
                http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/yisou/image/*http://image.yisou.com
                > 1G¾ÍÊÇ1000Õ×£¬ÑÅ»¢µçÓÊ×ÔÖúÀ©ÈÝ£¡
                >
                http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/1g/*http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/event/
                mail_1g/
              • Tony
                Hi Jane, To look back in anger is not good for the future. I suggest we forgive our sins of the past if we are to have a future. That being said, there are
                Message 7 of 30 , May 7, 2005
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                  Hi Jane,
                   
                  To look back in anger is not good for the future. I suggest we forgive our sins of the past if we are to have a future. That being said, there are wrongs done by Japan in the past. But the bigger question is why is this focused on now? Is this a pressure valve set on by the Chinese government to get people unfocused on problems China is facing today? The future is now, not in the past. Are the Japanese becoming scapegoats for China's problems today? It is too coincidental not to come to that conclusion.
                   
                  Regards and respect for all.
                   
                  Tony

                  juanjuan <yijane01@...> wrote:
                  Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                  being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If
                  they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern Japanese
                  today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up  other
                  resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                  world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their country
                  for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                  governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                  conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being innocent
                  and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad happened to
                  a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                  innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                  makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone stated
                  the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't realize
                  the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe their
                  soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering Asians:?
                  See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                  acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse to
                  become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than happy to
                  brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world concious
                  people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive them.
                  They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese bashing
                  either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will forever
                  live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or otherwise.
                  We in China also live in a biased media world mostly,  but today the
                  world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon and
                  read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                  developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things from
                  other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world for
                  decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their porn
                  industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht i
                  heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from the
                  market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from wht
                  Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese wives.
                  I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                  submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two Japanese
                  men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only fromm
                  two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people, I
                  doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-minded
                  or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just like
                  those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                  they were once associated with and are still part of it.

                  having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                  more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who else
                  please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                  chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.

                  jane



                  --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                  <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                  > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two men!
                  > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                  > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
                  > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side.  Many
                  Japanese
                  > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming outpour
                  > of emotions and anger towards Japan.  I don't think the post WW2
                  > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in the
                  > war.  I once watched a documentary many years ago where a sampling
                  of
                  > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of Japanese
                  > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions.  Almost
                  all
                  > expressed shock and disbelief.  Everyone of them commented that they
                  > had never read of or seen such pictures before.  I can't remember
                  who
                  > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                  streets
                  > of major cities in Japan.  My own experiences with Japanese friends
                  > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
                  > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as
                  just
                  > more Chinese propaganda.
                  >
                  > Jieming
                  > DragonSeedLegacy
                  > ChineseCultureOnline
                  >
                  > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                  > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                  > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                  > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside the
                  > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                  greeted
                  > > me and asked where I had been.
                  > >
                  > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know their
                  > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone in
                  > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished
                  my
                  > > travel in this golden week.
                  > >
                  > > "Where have you been?"
                  > > "Beijing,China".
                  > >
                  > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                  complicated
                  > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because
                  Japan
                  > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                  trade.China
                  > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many Chinese
                  > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese goods.This
                  is
                  > > just an example.
                  > >
                  > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases and
                  had
                  > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great Walls
                  and
                  > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese
                  words
                  > > and short sentences they can speak.
                  > >
                  > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                  want to
                  > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                  > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as the
                  one
                  > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and like
                  > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me
                  marry
                  > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
                  > >
                  > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                  this,but
                  > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                  suggestion
                  > > from their own experience and they own life.
                  > >
                  > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't
                  able
                  > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest period
                  for
                  > > me.
                  > >
                  > > Most Truely
                  > > Adam
                  > >
                  > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                  > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                  > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                  > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > Terence,
                  > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to
                  hear
                  > > > what you have to say.
                  > > > > 
                  > > > > Jane and all,
                  > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs
                  China
                  > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening its
                  > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a slump.
                  So
                  > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since
                  Jusco
                  > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to
                  pay
                  > > for
                  > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China,
                  Jusco
                  > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off China.
                  > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                  heat.
                  > > > > 
                  > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between Japan
                  > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both
                  of
                  > > them
                  > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                  > > > > 
                  > > > > Roman.
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                  really
                  > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                  would
                  > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e a
                  long
                  > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand
                  why
                  > > the
                  > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes towards
                  this
                  > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                  people
                  > > over
                  > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                  towards
                  > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what the
                  > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during their
                  > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for the
                  > > time
                  > > > being.
                  > > >
                  > > > jane
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                  > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com



                  Discover Yahoo!
                  Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

                • juanjuan
                  Tony, Look at German and the Germany, thier president and see what they have done and are doing and see how Europe and the rest of the world are now dealing
                  Message 8 of 30 , May 8, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Tony,

                    Look at German and the Germany, thier president and see what they
                    have done and are doing and see how Europe and the rest of the world
                    are now dealing with them. Only yesterday i happened to see this from
                    TV. the Germany president applogized to Russia for the WW2 crimes and
                    made clear their stance against fascist. Now the Germany president
                    applogized AGAIN. I can't remember how many times and how many
                    occassions the Germany president appologized and had to appologize to
                    Europe and the world. As far as I know,, the rest of Europe has
                    forgiven Germany and has let them move on, accepted them as part of
                    the effort of battling against fascist or war. Germany has won the
                    world by thier words and deeds. The world has also let Germany move
                    on. The world is trying to forget the past what German did to their
                    millions of lives in the past. These things come NOT easy. Germany
                    has done what they should do. When Germany president appologized to
                    Russia yesterday, that alone BELITTLED the Japanese government -
                    other people like me don't need to say anthing else to make Japan
                    look bad/evil. See how the Japanese government again and again
                    hurting the Koreans and Chinese in particular by their deeds
                    (worshiping those war criminals, refusing in the first place Russia's
                    invitation to attend in the 60the anniversary of the victory taken
                    place yesterday, never applogizeed and made any compensation,
                    rewriting their text books etc and etc.) Tony, it's about the
                    killers' sons who continue to ignore the feellings of the sons of
                    those being killed - Please try to understand this.

                    Things can be forgotten and peopole can be forgiven but they must
                    have a sound reason. No one wants to live in the past. Without these
                    terrible experiences happening on ssomeone themselves, it's only easy
                    to advise the children of those being killed to have a broad mind or
                    something to forgive the killer. But it should be easier to advise
                    the killer's children to do what they should do to win forgiveness.

                    Do NOT make it a political conspriracy to make it the Chinese or
                    Korean government's trick to let people focus on the Japan issue
                    rather than their own internal problem. The Japanese issue is always
                    a totally different issue. It's about the people. This is a scar over
                    the deepest bottom of people's hearts. In fact, the Chinese
                    gogvernment, as i said it again and again,, is not as brave as the
                    korean government. All the time when there was a protest or soem anti-
                    Japan emotions, they put in the media and tell people to tone down,
                    calm down. bullshit! Nothing like the Korean president who would
                    declair a long lasting battle against the imperialist Japan
                    government. Those anti-Japan activists could be sent to jail some
                    years ago. It's only very recent that the governmet become a little
                    bit more toleratnt with thse activists.

                    Do NOT question the genuineness why people can hate those right wing
                    Japanese and those government officials from their president on the
                    fact that they never do anything so that they themselves can move on
                    and be allowed to move on. It's about our parents, sisters and
                    brothers who were brutally murdered/killed. It also makes sense in
                    the west only when you send the murderer/killer to jail or make him
                    pay for a price your soul could can be finally settled down.
                    Otherwise, you will never settle down your soul till the day you
                    leave the world. It's Simple but NOT easy!

                    Do NOT advise the Chinese or Koreans to forget when the Japanese have
                    NOT done their part. People will never forget until they finally
                    start doing something good that can "comfort our hearts" a little
                    bit, BUT NOT the otherwise AGAIN and AGAIN!

                    LEARN FROM GERMANY! WAKE UP THE NAIVE AND "PEACEFUL-MINDED" JAPANESE
                    DAUGHTERS! STOP THE ARROGANT SONS WHO IRRITATE OTHER PEOPLE BY PAYING
                    RESPECT TO THOSE WORST SORT OF WAR CRIMINALS! SEND THOSE STILL LIVING
                    WAR CRIMINALS TO SEVERE PUNISHMENT! IS THAT PERHAPS TOO MUCH WE ARE
                    ASKING FOR???


                    jane



                    --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Tony
                    <star_light_stud@y...> wrote:
                    > Hi Jane,
                    >
                    > To look back in anger is not good for the future. I suggest we
                    forgive our sins of the past if we are to have a future. That being
                    said, there are wrongs done by Japan in the past. But the bigger
                    question is why is this focused on now? Is this a pressure valve set
                    on by the Chinese government to get people unfocused on problems
                    China is facing today? The future is now, not in the past. Are the
                    Japanese becoming scapegoats for China's problems today? It is too
                    coincidental not to come to that conclusion.
                    >
                    > Regards and respect for all.
                    >
                    > Tony
                    >
                    > juanjuan <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                    > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                    > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If
                    > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                    Japanese
                    > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up other
                    > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                    > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                    country
                    > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                    > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                    > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                    innocent
                    > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad happened
                    to
                    > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                    > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                    > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                    stated
                    > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                    realize
                    > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                    their
                    > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering Asians:?
                    > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                    > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse to
                    > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than happy
                    to
                    > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                    concious
                    > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive them.
                    > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                    bashing
                    > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will forever
                    > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                    otherwise.
                    > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but today
                    the
                    > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon and
                    > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                    > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                    from
                    > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world
                    for
                    > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their porn
                    > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht i
                    > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from
                    the
                    > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from
                    wht
                    > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                    wives.
                    > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                    > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                    Japanese
                    > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only fromm
                    > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people, I
                    > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                    minded
                    > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just
                    like
                    > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                    > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                    >
                    > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                    > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who
                    else
                    > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                    > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                    >
                    > jane
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                    > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                    > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                    men!
                    > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                    > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
                    > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many
                    > Japanese
                    > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                    outpour
                    > > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post WW2
                    > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in
                    the
                    > > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                    sampling
                    > of
                    > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                    Japanese
                    > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions. Almost
                    > all
                    > > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented that
                    they
                    > > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't remember
                    > who
                    > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                    > streets
                    > > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese
                    friends
                    > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
                    > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as
                    > just
                    > > more Chinese propaganda.
                    > >
                    > > Jieming
                    > > DragonSeedLegacy
                    > > ChineseCultureOnline
                    > >
                    > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                    > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                    > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                    > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside
                    the
                    > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                    > greeted
                    > > > me and asked where I had been.
                    > > >
                    > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                    their
                    > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone
                    in
                    > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished
                    > my
                    > > > travel in this golden week.
                    > > >
                    > > > "Where have you been?"
                    > > > "Beijing,China".
                    > > >
                    > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                    > complicated
                    > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because
                    > Japan
                    > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                    > trade.China
                    > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                    Chinese
                    > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                    goods.This
                    > is
                    > > > just an example.
                    > > >
                    > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases
                    and
                    > had
                    > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                    Walls
                    > and
                    > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese
                    > words
                    > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                    > > >
                    > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                    > want to
                    > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                    > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as
                    the
                    > one
                    > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                    like
                    > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me
                    > marry
                    > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
                    > > >
                    > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                    > this,but
                    > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                    > suggestion
                    > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                    > > >
                    > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't
                    > able
                    > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                    period
                    > for
                    > > > me.
                    > > >
                    > > > Most Truely
                    > > > Adam
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                    > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                    > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                    > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > > Terence,
                    > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to
                    > hear
                    > > > > what you have to say.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Jane and all,
                    > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs
                    > China
                    > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening
                    its
                    > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                    slump.
                    > So
                    > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since
                    > Jusco
                    > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to
                    > pay
                    > > > for
                    > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China,
                    > Jusco
                    > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                    China.
                    > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                    > heat.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                    Japan
                    > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both
                    > of
                    > > > them
                    > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Roman.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                    > really
                    > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                    > would
                    > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e
                    a
                    > long
                    > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand
                    > why
                    > > > the
                    > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                    towards
                    > this
                    > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                    > people
                    > > > over
                    > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                    > towards
                    > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what
                    the
                    > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                    their
                    > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for
                    the
                    > > > time
                    > > > > being.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > jane
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                    > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    >
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                    >
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
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                    it out!
                  • Roman Bates
                    Again, I have to say I entirely agree with Jane. You judge a person s or country s regret by their actions and Japan has hardly done anything to show they were
                    Message 9 of 30 , May 8, 2005
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                      Again, I have to say I entirely agree with Jane. You judge a person's or country's regret by their actions and Japan has hardly done anything to show they were genuinely sorry for their actions during the world wars and hasn't done enough to convince the world that it isn't capable of repeating those atrocities.
                       
                      Why does the Japanese government (doesn't matter who the prime minister is) continue to visit the shrine where the graves of some of the most brutal criminals are. Does it realize that by doing this, it is telling the world that it is condoning the brutal actions of these criminals? Why on earth does the present Japanese government want even to be associated with these brutal criminals of the past? Japan still wants to hold onto its glory past, a time when they ruled the world, when their generals massacred millions of innocent people.
                       
                      But what I think is even more mind-boggling is why isn't there an uproar among the Japanese people whenever the prime minister decides to visit the shrine? If the Japanese people feel sorry about what their government did 60 years ago, why aren't they lambasting the present government for continuing or appear to continue condoning the actions of the brutal criminals. There's strength in numbers. Even if the Japanese government isn't genuinely sorry. if millions of Japanese took to the streets in major Japanese cities to protest their prime minister continuing to visit the shrine, the message would be loud and clear and I don't think the government can ignore it. Japanese citizens can pressure their government to do the right thing. What is sad is the Japanese today don't seem to care about the suffering their government inflicted on China and other countries during the wars. And by not voicing their opposition to the shrine visits, it leaves a big question mark over whether the citizens are genuinely sorry for what happened.
                       
                      Roman.
                       


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                    • liang_jieming
                      Hi Roman, I think the issue here is that many common Japanese don t know the full extent of their country s actions in WW2, which is why the current row is
                      Message 10 of 30 , May 8, 2005
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                        Hi Roman,

                        I think the issue here is that many common Japanese don't know the
                        full extent of their country's actions in WW2, which is why the
                        current row is about the new history syllabus published for Japanese
                        school students. Many are truly ignorant of history. They just
                        simply never learnt about it.

                        Jieming
                        DragonSeedLegacy
                        ChineseCultureOnline

                        --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                        <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                        > Again, I have to say I entirely agree with Jane. You judge a
                        person's or country's regret by their actions and Japan has hardly
                        done anything to show they were genuinely sorry for their actions
                        during the world wars and hasn't done enough to convince the world
                        that it isn't capable of repeating those atrocities.
                        >
                        > Why does the Japanese government (doesn't matter who the prime
                        minister is) continue to visit the shrine where the graves of some of
                        the most brutal criminals are. Does it realize that by doing this, it
                        is telling the world that it is condoning the brutal actions of these
                        criminals? Why on earth does the present Japanese government want
                        even to be associated with these brutal criminals of the past? Japan
                        still wants to hold onto its glory past, a time when they ruled the
                        world, when their generals massacred millions of innocent people.
                        >
                        > But what I think is even more mind-boggling is why isn't there an
                        uproar among the Japanese people whenever the prime minister decides
                        to visit the shrine? If the Japanese people feel sorry about what
                        their government did 60 years ago, why aren't they lambasting the
                        present government for continuing or appear to continue condoning the
                        actions of the brutal criminals. There's strength in numbers. Even if
                        the Japanese government isn't genuinely sorry. if millions of
                        Japanese took to the streets in major Japanese cities to protest
                        their prime minister continuing to visit the shrine, the message
                        would be loud and clear and I don't think the government can ignore
                        it. Japanese citizens can pressure their government to do the right
                        thing. What is sad is the Japanese today don't seem to care about the
                        suffering their government inflicted on China and other countries
                        during the wars. And by not voicing their opposition to the shrine
                        visits, it leaves a big question mark over whether the
                        > citizens are genuinely sorry for what happened.
                        >
                        > Roman.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends
                        online?
                      • Rachel Tatner
                        Part of the problem is that the Japanese children weren t taught the truth of Japan s actions during the war. Also, most of the Japanese men responsible for
                        Message 11 of 30 , May 8, 2005
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                          Part of the problem is that the Japanese children weren't taught the
                          truth of Japan's actions during the war.

                          Also, most of the Japanese men responsible for those crimes were never
                          publicly punished. How can there be guilt felt when there was no
                          punishment. In fact, many of those men became high ranking government
                          officials or presidents of Universities.

                          So it's very understanding that the average Japanese doesn't really
                          understand why China is so upset.

                          Look at the German Holocaust situation. Do you know why the US made the
                          Holocaust Museum in DC? It's because school children actually thought
                          it really didn't happen. They thought it was all a hoax. And this is
                          something that was very public and very much well known in the US.

                          Rachel


                          Roman Bates wrote:

                          > Again, I have to say I entirely agree with Jane. You judge a person's
                          > or country's regret by their actions and Japan has hardly done
                          > anything to show they were genuinely sorry for their actions during
                          > the world wars and hasn't done enough to convince the world that it
                          > isn't capable of repeating those atrocities.
                          >
                          > Why does the Japanese government (doesn't matter who the prime
                          > minister is) continue to visit the shrine where the graves of some of
                          > the most brutal criminals are. Does it realize that by doing this, it
                          > is telling the world that it is condoning the brutal actions of these
                          > criminals? Why on earth does the present Japanese government want even
                          > to be associated with these brutal criminals of the past? Japan still
                          > wants to hold onto its glory past, a time when they ruled the world,
                          > when their generals massacred millions of innocent people.
                          >
                          > But what I think is even more mind-boggling is why isn't there an
                          > uproar among the Japanese people whenever the prime minister decides
                          > to visit the shrine? If the Japanese people feel sorry about what
                          > their government did 60 years ago, why aren't they lambasting the
                          > present government for continuing or appear to continue condoning the
                          > actions of the brutal criminals. There's strength in numbers. Even if
                          > the Japanese government isn't genuinely sorry. if millions of Japanese
                          > took to the streets in major Japanese cities to protest their prime
                          > minister continuing to visit the shrine, the message would be loud and
                          > clear and I don't think the government can ignore it. Japanese
                          > citizens can pressure their government to do the right thing. What is
                          > sad is the Japanese today don't seem to care about the suffering their
                          > government inflicted on China and other countries during the wars. And
                          > by not voicing their opposition to the shrine visits, it leaves a big
                          > question mark over whether the citizens are genuinely sorry for what
                          > happened.
                          >
                          > Roman.
                          >
                          >
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                        • liang_jieming
                          Japanese tourists to museums and memorials in Singapore always react in shock and disbelief to the pictures and stories. And as the memories of WW2 receed
                          Message 12 of 30 , May 9, 2005
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                            Japanese tourists to museums and memorials in Singapore always react
                            in shock and disbelief to the pictures and stories. And as the
                            memories of WW2 receed further and further into history, this becomes
                            even harder and harder to address as a whole generation of people
                            would have lived and died not knowing the horrors of the war and
                            their children would be even harder pressed to understand what all
                            the anger and fuss is all about. "What's the big deal?" they would
                            ask. They too will start to become jaded with all the anti-japanese
                            sentiment, unable to understand the underlying issues and in turn
                            become radical in their views, incorrect or not. "Victimising Japan
                            yet again." they will yell.

                            That is the manifest danger emerging today.

                            Jieming
                            DragonSeedLegacy
                            ChineseCultureOnline


                            --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Rachel Tatner
                            <rattat@s...> wrote:
                            > Part of the problem is that the Japanese children weren't taught
                            the
                            > truth of Japan's actions during the war.
                            >
                            > Also, most of the Japanese men responsible for those crimes were
                            never
                            > publicly punished. How can there be guilt felt when there was no
                            > punishment. In fact, many of those men became high ranking
                            government
                            > officials or presidents of Universities.
                            >
                            > So it's very understanding that the average Japanese doesn't really
                            > understand why China is so upset.
                            >
                            > Look at the German Holocaust situation. Do you know why the US
                            made the
                            > Holocaust Museum in DC? It's because school children actually
                            thought
                            > it really didn't happen. They thought it was all a hoax. And this
                            is
                            > something that was very public and very much well known in the US.
                            >
                            > Rachel
                            >
                            >
                            > Roman Bates wrote:
                            >
                            > > Again, I have to say I entirely agree with Jane. You judge a
                            person's
                            > > or country's regret by their actions and Japan has hardly done
                            > > anything to show they were genuinely sorry for their actions
                            during
                            > > the world wars and hasn't done enough to convince the world that
                            it
                            > > isn't capable of repeating those atrocities.
                            > >
                            > > Why does the Japanese government (doesn't matter who the prime
                            > > minister is) continue to visit the shrine where the graves of
                            some of
                            > > the most brutal criminals are. Does it realize that by doing
                            this, it
                            > > is telling the world that it is condoning the brutal actions of
                            these
                            > > criminals? Why on earth does the present Japanese government want
                            even
                            > > to be associated with these brutal criminals of the past? Japan
                            still
                            > > wants to hold onto its glory past, a time when they ruled the
                            world,
                            > > when their generals massacred millions of innocent people.
                            > >
                            > > But what I think is even more mind-boggling is why isn't there an
                            > > uproar among the Japanese people whenever the prime minister
                            decides
                            > > to visit the shrine? If the Japanese people feel sorry about what
                            > > their government did 60 years ago, why aren't they lambasting the
                            > > present government for continuing or appear to continue condoning
                            the
                            > > actions of the brutal criminals. There's strength in numbers.
                            Even if
                            > > the Japanese government isn't genuinely sorry. if millions of
                            Japanese
                            > > took to the streets in major Japanese cities to protest their
                            prime
                            > > minister continuing to visit the shrine, the message would be
                            loud and
                            > > clear and I don't think the government can ignore it. Japanese
                            > > citizens can pressure their government to do the right thing.
                            What is
                            > > sad is the Japanese today don't seem to care about the suffering
                            their
                            > > government inflicted on China and other countries during the
                            wars. And
                            > > by not voicing their opposition to the shrine visits, it leaves a
                            big
                            > > question mark over whether the citizens are genuinely sorry for
                            what
                            > > happened.
                            > >
                            > > Roman.
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > >
                          • Tony
                            Hi Jane, I can feel for how you reflect upon the sufferings of China from the hands of the Japanese. Japan has suffered also. The United States bombed Japan
                            Message 13 of 30 , May 9, 2005
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                              Hi Jane,
                               
                              I can feel for how you reflect upon the sufferings of China from the hands of the Japanese. Japan has suffered also. The United States bombed Japan heavily during the end of the conflict of WWII. The USA also dropped two (2) atomic bombs on Japanese soil. Perhaps Japan feels that it has paid its price for its aggression during WWII. Only God can answer that question. The bigger question is can we arise from our demons of the past for a greater tomorrow?
                               
                              Regards,
                               
                              Tony

                              juanjuan <yijane01@...> wrote:
                              Tony,

                              Look at  German and the Germany, thier president and see what they
                              have done and are doing and see how  Europe and the rest of the world
                              are now dealing with them. Only yesterday i happened to see this from
                              TV. the Germany president applogized to Russia for the WW2 crimes and
                              made clear their stance against fascist. Now the Germany president
                              applogized AGAIN. I can't remember  how many times and how many
                              occassions the Germany president appologized and had to appologize to
                              Europe and the world. As far as I know,, the rest of Europe has
                              forgiven Germany and has let them move on, accepted them as part of
                              the effort of battling against fascist or war. Germany has won the
                              world by thier words and deeds. The world has also let Germany move
                              on. The world is trying to forget the past what German did to their
                              millions of lives in the past. These things come NOT easy. Germany
                              has done what they should do. When Germany president appologized to
                              Russia yesterday, that alone BELITTLED the Japanese government -
                              other people like me don't need to say anthing else to make Japan
                              look bad/evil. See how the Japanese government again and again
                              hurting the Koreans and Chinese in particular by their deeds
                              (worshiping those war criminals, refusing in the first place Russia's
                              invitation to attend in the 60the anniversary of the victory taken
                              place yesterday, never applogizeed and made any compensation,
                              rewriting their text books etc and etc.) Tony, it's about the
                              killers' sons who continue to ignore the feellings of the sons of
                              those being killed - Please try to understand this.

                              Things can be forgotten and peopole can be forgiven but they must
                              have a sound reason. No one wants to live in the past. Without these
                              terrible experiences happening on ssomeone themselves, it's only easy
                              to advise the children of those being killed to have a broad mind or
                              something to forgive the killer. But it should be easier to advise
                              the killer's children to do what they should do to win forgiveness.

                              Do NOT make it a political conspriracy to make it the Chinese or
                              Korean government's trick to let people focus on the Japan issue
                              rather than their own internal problem. The Japanese issue is always
                              a totally different issue. It's about the people. This is a scar over
                              the deepest bottom of people's hearts. In fact, the Chinese
                              gogvernment, as i said it again and again,, is not as brave as the
                              korean government. All the time when there was a protest or soem anti-
                              Japan emotions, they put in the media and tell people to tone down,
                              calm down. bullshit! Nothing like the Korean president who would
                              declair a long lasting battle against the imperialist Japan
                              government. Those anti-Japan activists could be sent to jail some
                              years ago. It's only very recent that the governmet become a little
                              bit more toleratnt with thse activists.

                              Do NOT question the genuineness why people can hate those right wing
                              Japanese and those government officials from their president on the
                              fact that they never do anything so that they themselves can move on
                              and be allowed to move on. It's about our parents, sisters and
                              brothers who were brutally murdered/killed. It also makes sense in
                              the west only when you send the murderer/killer to jail or make him
                              pay for a price your soul could can be finally settled down.
                              Otherwise, you will never settle down your soul till the day you
                              leave the world. It's Simple but NOT easy!

                              Do NOT advise the Chinese or Koreans to forget when the Japanese have
                              NOT done their part. People will never forget until they finally
                              start doing something good that can "comfort our hearts" a little
                              bit, BUT NOT the otherwise AGAIN and AGAIN!

                              LEARN FROM GERMANY! WAKE UP THE NAIVE AND "PEACEFUL-MINDED" JAPANESE
                              DAUGHTERS! STOP THE ARROGANT SONS WHO IRRITATE OTHER PEOPLE BY PAYING
                              RESPECT TO THOSE WORST SORT OF WAR CRIMINALS! SEND THOSE STILL LIVING
                              WAR CRIMINALS TO SEVERE PUNISHMENT! IS THAT PERHAPS TOO MUCH WE ARE
                              ASKING FOR???


                              jane



                              --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Tony
                              <star_light_stud@y...> wrote:
                              > Hi Jane,

                              > To look back in anger is not good for the future. I suggest we
                              forgive our sins of the past if we are to have a future. That being
                              said, there are wrongs done by Japan in the past. But the bigger
                              question is why is this focused on now? Is this a pressure valve set
                              on by the Chinese government to get people unfocused on problems
                              China is facing today? The future is now, not in the past. Are the
                              Japanese becoming scapegoats for China's problems today? It is too
                              coincidental not to come to that conclusion.

                              > Regards and respect for all.

                              > Tony
                              >
                              > juanjuan <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                              > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                              > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If
                              > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                              Japanese
                              > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up  other
                              > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                              > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                              country
                              > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                              > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                              > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                              innocent
                              > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad happened
                              to
                              > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                              > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                              > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                              stated
                              > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                              realize
                              > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                              their
                              > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering Asians:?
                              > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                              > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse to
                              > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than happy
                              to
                              > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                              concious
                              > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive them.
                              > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                              bashing
                              > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will forever
                              > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                              otherwise.
                              > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly,  but today
                              the
                              > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon and
                              > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                              > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                              from
                              > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world
                              for
                              > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their porn
                              > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht i
                              > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from
                              the
                              > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from
                              wht
                              > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                              wives.
                              > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                              > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                              Japanese
                              > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only fromm
                              > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people, I
                              > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                              minded
                              > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just
                              like
                              > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                              > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                              >
                              > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                              > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who
                              else
                              > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                              > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                              >
                              > jane
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                              > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                              > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                              men!
                              > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                              > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
                              > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side.  Many
                              > Japanese
                              > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                              outpour
                              > > of emotions and anger towards Japan.  I don't think the post WW2
                              > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in
                              the
                              > > war.  I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                              sampling
                              > of
                              > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                              Japanese
                              > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions.  Almost
                              > all
                              > > expressed shock and disbelief.  Everyone of them commented that
                              they
                              > > had never read of or seen such pictures before.  I can't remember
                              > who
                              > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                              > streets
                              > > of major cities in Japan.  My own experiences with Japanese
                              friends
                              > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
                              > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as
                              > just
                              > > more Chinese propaganda.
                              > >
                              > > Jieming
                              > > DragonSeedLegacy
                              > > ChineseCultureOnline
                              > >
                              > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                              > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                              > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                              > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside
                              the
                              > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                              > greeted
                              > > > me and asked where I had been.
                              > > >
                              > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                              their
                              > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone
                              in
                              > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished
                              > my
                              > > > travel in this golden week.
                              > > >
                              > > > "Where have you been?"
                              > > > "Beijing,China".
                              > > >
                              > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                              > complicated
                              > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because
                              > Japan
                              > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                              > trade.China
                              > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                              Chinese
                              > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                              goods.This
                              > is
                              > > > just an example.
                              > > >
                              > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases
                              and
                              > had
                              > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                              Walls
                              > and
                              > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese
                              > words
                              > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                              > > >
                              > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                              > want to
                              > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                              > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as
                              the
                              > one
                              > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                              like
                              > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me
                              > marry
                              > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
                              > > >
                              > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                              > this,but
                              > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                              > suggestion
                              > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                              > > >
                              > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                              > > >
                              > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't
                              > able
                              > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                              period
                              > for
                              > > > me.
                              > > >
                              > > > Most Truely
                              > > > Adam
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                              > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                              > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                              > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > > Terence,
                              > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to
                              > hear
                              > > > > what you have to say.
                              > > > > > 
                              > > > > > Jane and all,
                              > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs
                              > China
                              > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening
                              its
                              > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                              slump.
                              > So
                              > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since
                              > Jusco
                              > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to
                              > pay
                              > > > for
                              > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China,
                              > Jusco
                              > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                              China.
                              > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                              > heat.
                              > > > > > 
                              > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                              Japan
                              > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both
                              > of
                              > > > them
                              > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                              > > > > > 
                              > > > > > Roman.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                              > really
                              > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                              > would
                              > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e
                              a
                              > long
                              > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand
                              > why
                              > > > the
                              > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                              towards
                              > this
                              > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                              > people
                              > > > over
                              > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                              > towards
                              > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what
                              the
                              > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                              their
                              > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for
                              the
                              > > > time
                              > > > > being.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > jane
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                              > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • John Gerlach
                              Tony I really appreciate what you are saying, and you are genuine in your efforts to provide a bridge to put these things in the past. For Jane and others in
                              Message 14 of 30 , May 9, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Tony

                                I really appreciate what you are saying, and you are genuine in your efforts
                                to provide a bridge to put these things in the past.

                                For Jane and others in China it is just not as simple as that. We often say
                                somewhat simplistically: 'I can forgive but I can't forget', but even this
                                is probably not true.

                                When we consider that most of the world's major religious beliefs clearly
                                link forgiveness with genuine repentance, then it is perhaps naive to
                                suppose that we should be expected to forgive when there is no evidence of
                                repentance for deeds done. Even 'God' does not do this!

                                Please don't consider this a theological treatise, it is just my own
                                reflection about how we sometimes overlook the deep things of the heart when
                                we comment on strong words from others.

                                John

                                ----Original Message Follows----
                                From: Tony <star_light_stud@...>
                                Reply-To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [ChineseCultureOnline] Re: about The Japanese!
                                Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 03:18:45 -0700 (PDT)

                                Hi Jane,

                                I can feel for how you reflect upon the sufferings of China from the hands
                                of the Japanese. Japan has suffered also. The United States bombed Japan
                                heavily during the end of the conflict of WWII. The USA also dropped two (2)
                                atomic bombs on Japanese soil. Perhaps Japan feels that it has paid its
                                price for its aggression during WWII. Only God can answer that question. The
                                bigger question is can we arise from our demons of the past for a greater
                                tomorrow?

                                Regards,

                                Tony

                                juanjuan <yijane01@...> wrote:
                                Tony,

                                Look at German and the Germany, thier president and see what they
                                have done and are doing and see how Europe and the rest of the world
                                are now dealing with them. Only yesterday i happened to see this from
                                TV. the Germany president applogized to Russia for the WW2 crimes and
                                made clear their stance against fascist. Now the Germany president
                                applogized AGAIN. I can't remember how many times and how many
                                occassions the Germany president appologized and had to appologize to
                                Europe and the world. As far as I know,, the rest of Europe has
                                forgiven Germany and has let them move on, accepted them as part of
                                the effort of battling against fascist or war. Germany has won the
                                world by thier words and deeds. The world has also let Germany move
                                on. The world is trying to forget the past what German did to their
                                millions of lives in the past. These things come NOT easy. Germany
                                has done what they should do. When Germany president appologized to
                                Russia yesterday, that alone BELITTLED the Japanese government -
                                other people like me don't need to say anthing else to make Japan
                                look bad/evil. See how the Japanese government again and again
                                hurting the Koreans and Chinese in particular by their deeds
                                (worshiping those war criminals, refusing in the first place Russia's
                                invitation to attend in the 60the anniversary of the victory taken
                                place yesterday, never applogizeed and made any compensation,
                                rewriting their text books etc and etc.) Tony, it's about the
                                killers' sons who continue to ignore the feellings of the sons of
                                those being killed - Please try to understand this.

                                Things can be forgotten and peopole can be forgiven but they must
                                have a sound reason. No one wants to live in the past. Without these
                                terrible experiences happening on ssomeone themselves, it's only easy
                                to advise the children of those being killed to have a broad mind or
                                something to forgive the killer. But it should be easier to advise
                                the killer's children to do what they should do to win forgiveness.

                                Do NOT make it a political conspriracy to make it the Chinese or
                                Korean government's trick to let people focus on the Japan issue
                                rather than their own internal problem. The Japanese issue is always
                                a totally different issue. It's about the people. This is a scar over
                                the deepest bottom of people's hearts. In fact, the Chinese
                                gogvernment, as i said it again and again,, is not as brave as the
                                korean government. All the time when there was a protest or soem anti-
                                Japan emotions, they put in the media and tell people to tone down,
                                calm down. bullshit! Nothing like the Korean president who would
                                declair a long lasting battle against the imperialist Japan
                                government. Those anti-Japan activists could be sent to jail some
                                years ago. It's only very recent that the governmet become a little
                                bit more toleratnt with thse activists.

                                Do NOT question the genuineness why people can hate those right wing
                                Japanese and those government officials from their president on the
                                fact that they never do anything so that they themselves can move on
                                and be allowed to move on. It's about our parents, sisters and
                                brothers who were brutally murdered/killed. It also makes sense in
                                the west only when you send the murderer/killer to jail or make him
                                pay for a price your soul could can be finally settled down.
                                Otherwise, you will never settle down your soul till the day you
                                leave the world. It's Simple but NOT easy!

                                Do NOT advise the Chinese or Koreans to forget when the Japanese have
                                NOT done their part. People will never forget until they finally
                                start doing something good that can "comfort our hearts" a little
                                bit, BUT NOT the otherwise AGAIN and AGAIN!

                                LEARN FROM GERMANY! WAKE UP THE NAIVE AND "PEACEFUL-MINDED" JAPANESE
                                DAUGHTERS! STOP THE ARROGANT SONS WHO IRRITATE OTHER PEOPLE BY PAYING
                                RESPECT TO THOSE WORST SORT OF WAR CRIMINALS! SEND THOSE STILL LIVING
                                WAR CRIMINALS TO SEVERE PUNISHMENT! IS THAT PERHAPS TOO MUCH WE ARE
                                ASKING FOR???


                                jane



                                --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Tony
                                <star_light_stud@y...> wrote:
                                > Hi Jane,
                                >
                                > To look back in anger is not good for the future. I suggest we
                                forgive our sins of the past if we are to have a future. That being
                                said, there are wrongs done by Japan in the past. But the bigger
                                question is why is this focused on now? Is this a pressure valve set
                                on by the Chinese government to get people unfocused on problems
                                China is facing today? The future is now, not in the past. Are the
                                Japanese becoming scapegoats for China's problems today? It is too
                                coincidental not to come to that conclusion.
                                >
                                > Regards and respect for all.
                                >
                                > Tony
                                >
                                > juanjuan <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                                > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If
                                > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                                Japanese
                                > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up other
                                > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                                > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                                country
                                > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                                > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                                > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                                innocent
                                > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad happened
                                to
                                > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                                > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                                > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                                stated
                                > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                                realize
                                > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                                their
                                > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering Asians:?
                                > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                                > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse to
                                > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than happy
                                to
                                > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                                concious
                                > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive them.
                                > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                                bashing
                                > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will forever
                                > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                                otherwise.
                                > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but today
                                the
                                > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon and
                                > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                                > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                                from
                                > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world
                                for
                                > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their porn
                                > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht i
                                > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from
                                the
                                > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from
                                wht
                                > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                                wives.
                                > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                                > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                                Japanese
                                > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only fromm
                                > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people, I
                                > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                                minded
                                > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just
                                like
                                > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                                > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                                >
                                > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                                > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who
                                else
                                > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                                > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                                >
                                > jane
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                                > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                                > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                                men!
                                > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                                > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
                                > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many
                                > Japanese
                                > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                                outpour
                                > > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post WW2
                                > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in
                                the
                                > > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                                sampling
                                > of
                                > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                                Japanese
                                > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions. Almost
                                > all
                                > > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented that
                                they
                                > > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't remember
                                > who
                                > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                                > streets
                                > > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese
                                friends
                                > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
                                > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as
                                > just
                                > > more Chinese propaganda.
                                > >
                                > > Jieming
                                > > DragonSeedLegacy
                                > > ChineseCultureOnline
                                > >
                                > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                                > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside
                                the
                                > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                                > greeted
                                > > > me and asked where I had been.
                                > > >
                                > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                                their
                                > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone
                                in
                                > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished
                                > my
                                > > > travel in this golden week.
                                > > >
                                > > > "Where have you been?"
                                > > > "Beijing,China".
                                > > >
                                > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                                > complicated
                                > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because
                                > Japan
                                > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                                > trade.China
                                > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                                Chinese
                                > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                                goods.This
                                > is
                                > > > just an example.
                                > > >
                                > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases
                                and
                                > had
                                > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                                Walls
                                > and
                                > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese
                                > words
                                > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                                > > >
                                > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                                > want to
                                > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                                > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as
                                the
                                > one
                                > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                                like
                                > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me
                                > marry
                                > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
                                > > >
                                > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                                > this,but
                                > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                                > suggestion
                                > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                                > > >
                                > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't
                                > able
                                > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                                period
                                > for
                                > > > me.
                                > > >
                                > > > Most Truely
                                > > > Adam
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                                > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                                > > > > > Terence,
                                > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to
                                > hear
                                > > > > what you have to say.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Jane and all,
                                > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs
                                > China
                                > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening
                                its
                                > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                                slump.
                                > So
                                > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since
                                > Jusco
                                > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to
                                > pay
                                > > > for
                                > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China,
                                > Jusco
                                > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                                China.
                                > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                                > heat.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                                Japan
                                > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both
                                > of
                                > > > them
                                > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Roman.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                                > really
                                > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                                > would
                                > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e
                                a
                                > long
                                > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand
                                > why
                                > > > the
                                > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                                towards
                                > this
                                > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                                > people
                                > > > over
                                > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                                > towards
                                > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what
                                the
                                > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                                their
                                > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for
                                the
                                > > > time
                                > > > > being.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > jane
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                              • Tony
                                Hi John, I understand your comments. I think you are right and so is Jane. It is just something in the past that must be let go of. The USA did horrific things
                                Message 15 of 30 , May 9, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi John,
                                   
                                  I understand your comments. I think you are right and so is Jane. It is just something in the past that must be let go of. The USA did horrific things here and abroad. I don't think the USA has ever apologized for any of its mistakes. To my best recollection, I don't think the USA ever apologized to Japan for the 2 atomic bombs it dropped on its land. Well, I am an American so perhaps it is easy for me to say 'let bygones be bygones.' At this point in time I think that to make Japan humble itself for past mistakes is a bit late and only serves to make matters worse. I mean what would happen if Japan is bullied into making an apology? Would that settle the matter or would it inflame it even more? This is a good group and an excellent discussion. I appreciate the civility of this discussion. If I am wrong I am wrong but I appreciate the excellent comments made by the members of this group.
                                   
                                  My regards to you all,
                                   
                                  Tony

                                  John Gerlach <firedog_hk@...> wrote:
                                  Tony

                                  I really appreciate what you are saying, and you are genuine in your efforts
                                  to provide a bridge to put these things in the past.

                                  For Jane and others in China it is just not as simple as that. We often say
                                  somewhat simplistically: 'I can forgive but I can't forget', but even this
                                  is probably not true.

                                  When we consider that most of the world's major religious beliefs clearly
                                  link forgiveness with genuine repentance, then it is perhaps naive to
                                  suppose that we should be expected to forgive when there is no evidence of
                                  repentance for deeds done. Even 'God' does not do this!

                                  Please don't consider this a theological treatise, it is just my own
                                  reflection about how we sometimes overlook the deep things of the heart when
                                  we comment on strong words from others.

                                  John

                                  ----Original Message Follows----
                                  From: Tony <star_light_stud@...>
                                  Reply-To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                  To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [ChineseCultureOnline] Re: about The Japanese!
                                  Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 03:18:45 -0700 (PDT)

                                  Hi Jane,

                                  I can feel for how you reflect upon the sufferings of China from the hands
                                  of the Japanese. Japan has suffered also. The United States bombed Japan
                                  heavily during the end of the conflict of WWII. The USA also dropped two (2)
                                  atomic bombs on Japanese soil. Perhaps Japan feels that it has paid its
                                  price for its aggression during WWII. Only God can answer that question. The
                                  bigger question is can we arise from our demons of the past for a greater
                                  tomorrow?

                                  Regards,

                                  Tony

                                  juanjuan <yijane01@...> wrote:
                                  Tony,

                                  Look at  German and the Germany, thier president and see what they
                                  have done and are doing and see how  Europe and the rest of the world
                                  are now dealing with them. Only yesterday i happened to see this from
                                  TV. the Germany president applogized to Russia for the WW2 crimes and
                                  made clear their stance against fascist. Now the Germany president
                                  applogized AGAIN. I can't remember  how many times and how many
                                  occassions the Germany president appologized and had to appologize to
                                  Europe and the world. As far as I know,, the rest of Europe has
                                  forgiven Germany and has let them move on, accepted them as part of
                                  the effort of battling against fascist or war. Germany has won the
                                  world by thier words and deeds. The world has also let Germany move
                                  on. The world is trying to forget the past what German did to their
                                  millions of lives in the past. These things come NOT easy. Germany
                                  has done what they should do. When Germany president appologized to
                                  Russia yesterday, that alone BELITTLED the Japanese government -
                                  other people like me don't need to say anthing else to make Japan
                                  look bad/evil. See how the Japanese government again and again
                                  hurting the Koreans and Chinese in particular by their deeds
                                  (worshiping those war criminals, refusing in the first place Russia's
                                  invitation to attend in the 60the anniversary of the victory taken
                                  place yesterday, never applogizeed and made any compensation,
                                  rewriting their text books etc and etc.) Tony, it's about the
                                  killers' sons who continue to ignore the feellings of the sons of
                                  those being killed - Please try to understand this.

                                  Things can be forgotten and peopole can be forgiven but they must
                                  have a sound reason. No one wants to live in the past. Without these
                                  terrible experiences happening on ssomeone themselves, it's only easy
                                  to advise the children of those being killed to have a broad mind or
                                  something to forgive the killer. But it should be easier to advise
                                  the killer's children to do what they should do to win forgiveness.

                                  Do NOT make it a political conspriracy to make it the Chinese or
                                  Korean government's trick to let people focus on the Japan issue
                                  rather than their own internal problem. The Japanese issue is always
                                  a totally different issue. It's about the people. This is a scar over
                                  the deepest bottom of people's hearts. In fact, the Chinese
                                  gogvernment, as i said it again and again,, is not as brave as the
                                  korean government. All the time when there was a protest or soem anti-
                                  Japan emotions, they put in the media and tell people to tone down,
                                  calm down. bullshit! Nothing like the Korean president who would
                                  declair a long lasting battle against the imperialist Japan
                                  government. Those anti-Japan activists could be sent to jail some
                                  years ago. It's only very recent that the governmet become a little
                                  bit more toleratnt with thse activists.

                                  Do NOT question the genuineness why people can hate those right wing
                                  Japanese and those government officials from their president on the
                                  fact that they never do anything so that they themselves can move on
                                  and be allowed to move on. It's about our parents, sisters and
                                  brothers who were brutally murdered/killed. It also makes sense in
                                  the west only when you send the murderer/killer to jail or make him
                                  pay for a price your soul could can be finally settled down.
                                  Otherwise, you will never settle down your soul till the day you
                                  leave the world. It's Simple but NOT easy!

                                  Do NOT advise the Chinese or Koreans to forget when the Japanese have
                                  NOT done their part. People will never forget until they finally
                                  start doing something good that can "comfort our hearts" a little
                                  bit, BUT NOT the otherwise AGAIN and AGAIN!

                                  LEARN FROM GERMANY! WAKE UP THE NAIVE AND "PEACEFUL-MINDED" JAPANESE
                                  DAUGHTERS! STOP THE ARROGANT SONS WHO IRRITATE OTHER PEOPLE BY PAYING
                                  RESPECT TO THOSE WORST SORT OF WAR CRIMINALS! SEND THOSE STILL LIVING
                                  WAR CRIMINALS TO SEVERE PUNISHMENT! IS THAT PERHAPS TOO MUCH WE ARE
                                  ASKING FOR???


                                  jane



                                  --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Tony
                                  <star_light_stud@y...> wrote:
                                  > Hi Jane,
                                  >
                                  > To look back in anger is not good for the future. I suggest we
                                  forgive our sins of the past if we are to have a future. That being
                                  said, there are wrongs done by Japan in the past. But the bigger
                                  question is why is this focused on now? Is this a pressure valve set
                                  on by the Chinese government to get people unfocused on problems
                                  China is facing today? The future is now, not in the past. Are the
                                  Japanese becoming scapegoats for China's problems today? It is too
                                  coincidental not to come to that conclusion.
                                  >
                                  > Regards and respect for all.
                                  >
                                  > Tony
                                  >
                                  > juanjuan <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                  > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                                  > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If
                                  > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                                  Japanese
                                  > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up  other
                                  > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                                  > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                                  country
                                  > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                                  > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                                  > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                                  innocent
                                  > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad happened
                                  to
                                  > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                                  > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                                  > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                                  stated
                                  > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                                  realize
                                  > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                                  their
                                  > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering Asians:?
                                  > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                                  > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse to
                                  > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than happy
                                  to
                                  > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                                  concious
                                  > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive them.
                                  > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                                  bashing
                                  > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will forever
                                  > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                                  otherwise.
                                  > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly,  but today
                                  the
                                  > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon and
                                  > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                                  > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                                  from
                                  > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world
                                  for
                                  > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their porn
                                  > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht i
                                  > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from
                                  the
                                  > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from
                                  wht
                                  > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                                  wives.
                                  > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                                  > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                                  Japanese
                                  > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only fromm
                                  > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people, I
                                  > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                                  minded
                                  > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just
                                  like
                                  > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                                  > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                                  >
                                  > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                                  > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who
                                  else
                                  > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                                  > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                                  >
                                  > jane
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                                  > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                                  > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                                  men!
                                  > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                                  > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
                                  > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side.  Many
                                  > Japanese
                                  > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                                  outpour
                                  > > of emotions and anger towards Japan.  I don't think the post WW2
                                  > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in
                                  the
                                  > > war.  I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                                  sampling
                                  > of
                                  > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                                  Japanese
                                  > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions.  Almost
                                  > all
                                  > > expressed shock and disbelief.  Everyone of them commented that
                                  they
                                  > > had never read of or seen such pictures before.  I can't remember
                                  > who
                                  > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                                  > streets
                                  > > of major cities in Japan.  My own experiences with Japanese
                                  friends
                                  > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
                                  > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as
                                  > just
                                  > > more Chinese propaganda.
                                  > >
                                  > > Jieming
                                  > > DragonSeedLegacy
                                  > > ChineseCultureOnline
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                  > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                                  > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside
                                  the
                                  > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                                  > greeted
                                  > > > me and asked where I had been.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                                  their
                                  > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone
                                  in
                                  > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished
                                  > my
                                  > > > travel in this golden week.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "Where have you been?"
                                  > > > "Beijing,China".
                                  > > >
                                  > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                                  > complicated
                                  > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because
                                  > Japan
                                  > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                                  > trade.China
                                  > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                                  Chinese
                                  > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                                  goods.This
                                  > is
                                  > > > just an example.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases
                                  and
                                  > had
                                  > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                                  Walls
                                  > and
                                  > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese
                                  > words
                                  > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                                  > want to
                                  > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                                  > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as
                                  the
                                  > one
                                  > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                                  like
                                  > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me
                                  > marry
                                  > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                                  > this,but
                                  > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                                  > suggestion
                                  > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't
                                  > able
                                  > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                                  period
                                  > for
                                  > > > me.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Most Truely
                                  > > > Adam
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                  > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                  > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                                  > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > > > Terence,
                                  > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to
                                  > hear
                                  > > > > what you have to say.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Jane and all,
                                  > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs
                                  > China
                                  > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening
                                  its
                                  > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                                  slump.
                                  > So
                                  > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since
                                  > Jusco
                                  > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to
                                  > pay
                                  > > > for
                                  > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China,
                                  > Jusco
                                  > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                                  China.
                                  > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                                  > heat.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                                  Japan
                                  > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both
                                  > of
                                  > > > them
                                  > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Roman.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                                  > really
                                  > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                                  > would
                                  > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e
                                  a
                                  > long
                                  > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand
                                  > why
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                                  towards
                                  > this
                                  > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                                  > people
                                  > > > over
                                  > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                                  > towards
                                  > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what
                                  the
                                  > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                                  their
                                  > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for
                                  the
                                  > > > time
                                  > > > > being.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > jane
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                  > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • brian gale
                                  heres my 2 cents....... ok, tomorrow the japanese say sorry for all the things they have done and not done, they publish new school books.. blah blah blah do
                                  Message 16 of 30 , May 9, 2005
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                                    heres my 2 cents.......

                                    ok, tomorrow the japanese say sorry for all the things
                                    they have done and not done, they publish new school
                                    books.. blah blah blah

                                    do the chinese embrace them and see them as "brothers"
                                    and "sisters" and all is ok and forgiven?

                                    (rolling my eyes)

                                    I DON'T THINK SO.....

                                    most chinese I know are not into the forgiveness and
                                    just hate them all, and 1 or many saying "sorry" won't
                                    change much

                                    IMHO

                                    brian in beijing




                                    --- Tony <star_light_stud@...> wrote:

                                    > Hi John,
                                    >
                                    > I understand your comments. I think you are right
                                    > and so is Jane. It is just something in the past
                                    > that must be let go of. The USA did horrific things
                                    > here and abroad. I don't think the USA has ever
                                    > apologized for any of its mistakes. To my best
                                    > recollection, I don't think the USA ever apologized
                                    > to Japan for the 2 atomic bombs it dropped on its
                                    > land. Well, I am an American so perhaps it is easy
                                    > for me to say 'let bygones be bygones.' At this
                                    > point in time I think that to make Japan humble
                                    > itself for past mistakes is a bit late and only
                                    > serves to make matters worse. I mean what would
                                    > happen if Japan is bullied into making an apology?
                                    > Would that settle the matter or would it inflame it
                                    > even more? This is a good group and an excellent
                                    > discussion. I appreciate the civility of this
                                    > discussion. If I am wrong I am wrong but I
                                    > appreciate the excellent comments made by the
                                    > members of this group.
                                    >
                                    > My regards to you all,
                                    >
                                    > Tony
                                    >
                                    > John Gerlach <firedog_hk@...> wrote:
                                    > Tony
                                    >
                                    > I really appreciate what you are saying, and you are
                                    > genuine in your efforts
                                    > to provide a bridge to put these things in the past.
                                    >
                                    > For Jane and others in China it is just not as
                                    > simple as that. We often say
                                    > somewhat simplistically: 'I can forgive but I can't
                                    > forget', but even this
                                    > is probably not true.
                                    >
                                    > When we consider that most of the world's major
                                    > religious beliefs clearly
                                    > link forgiveness with genuine repentance, then it is
                                    > perhaps naive to
                                    > suppose that we should be expected to forgive when
                                    > there is no evidence of
                                    > repentance for deeds done. Even 'God' does not do
                                    > this!
                                    >
                                    > Please don't consider this a theological treatise,
                                    > it is just my own
                                    > reflection about how we sometimes overlook the deep
                                    > things of the heart when
                                    > we comment on strong words from others.
                                    >
                                    > John
                                    >
                                    > ----Original Message Follows----
                                    > From: Tony <star_light_stud@...>
                                    > Reply-To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                    > To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [ChineseCultureOnline] Re: about The
                                    > Japanese!
                                    > Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 03:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
                                    >
                                    > Hi Jane,
                                    >
                                    > I can feel for how you reflect upon the sufferings
                                    > of China from the hands
                                    > of the Japanese. Japan has suffered also. The United
                                    > States bombed Japan
                                    > heavily during the end of the conflict of WWII. The
                                    > USA also dropped two (2)
                                    > atomic bombs on Japanese soil. Perhaps Japan feels
                                    > that it has paid its
                                    > price for its aggression during WWII. Only God can
                                    > answer that question. The
                                    > bigger question is can we arise from our demons of
                                    > the past for a greater
                                    > tomorrow?
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    >
                                    > Tony
                                    >
                                    > juanjuan <yijane01@...> wrote:
                                    > Tony,
                                    >
                                    > Look at German and the Germany, thier president and
                                    > see what they
                                    > have done and are doing and see how Europe and the
                                    > rest of the world
                                    > are now dealing with them. Only yesterday i happened
                                    > to see this from
                                    > TV. the Germany president applogized to Russia for
                                    > the WW2 crimes and
                                    > made clear their stance against fascist. Now the
                                    > Germany president
                                    > applogized AGAIN. I can't remember how many times
                                    > and how many
                                    > occassions the Germany president appologized and had
                                    > to appologize to
                                    > Europe and the world. As far as I know,, the rest of
                                    > Europe has
                                    > forgiven Germany and has let them move on, accepted
                                    > them as part of
                                    > the effort of battling against fascist or war.
                                    > Germany has won the
                                    > world by thier words and deeds. The world has also
                                    > let Germany move
                                    > on. The world is trying to forget the past what
                                    > German did to their
                                    > millions of lives in the past. These things come NOT
                                    > easy. Germany
                                    > has done what they should do. When Germany president
                                    > appologized to
                                    > Russia yesterday, that alone BELITTLED the Japanese
                                    > government -
                                    > other people like me don't need to say anthing else
                                    > to make Japan
                                    > look bad/evil. See how the Japanese government again
                                    > and again
                                    > hurting the Koreans and Chinese in particular by
                                    > their deeds
                                    > (worshiping those war criminals, refusing in the
                                    > first place Russia's
                                    > invitation to attend in the 60the anniversary of the
                                    > victory taken
                                    > place yesterday, never applogizeed and made any
                                    > compensation,
                                    > rewriting their text books etc and etc.) Tony, it's
                                    > about the
                                    > killers' sons who continue to ignore the feellings
                                    > of the sons of
                                    > those being killed - Please try to understand this.
                                    >
                                    > Things can be forgotten and peopole can be forgiven
                                    > but they must
                                    > have a sound reason. No one wants to live in the
                                    > past. Without these
                                    > terrible experiences happening on ssomeone
                                    > themselves, it's only easy
                                    > to advise the children of those being killed to have
                                    > a broad mind or
                                    > something to forgive the killer. But it should be
                                    > easier to advise
                                    > the killer's children to do what they should do to
                                    > win forgiveness.
                                    >
                                    > Do NOT make it a political conspriracy to make it
                                    > the Chinese or
                                    > Korean government's trick to let people focus on the
                                    > Japan issue
                                    > rather than their own internal problem. The Japanese
                                    > issue is always
                                    > a totally different issue. It's about the people.
                                    > This is a scar over
                                    > the deepest bottom of people's hearts. In fact, the
                                    > Chinese
                                    > gogvernment, as i said it again and again,, is not
                                    > as brave as the
                                    > korean government. All the time when there was a
                                    > protest or soem anti-
                                    > Japan emotions, they put in the media and tell
                                    > people to tone down,
                                    > calm down. bullshit! Nothing like the Korean
                                    > president who would
                                    > declair a long lasting battle against the
                                    > imperialist Japan
                                    > government. Those anti-Japan activists could be sent
                                    > to jail some
                                    > years ago. It's only very recent that the governmet
                                    > become a little
                                    > bit more toleratnt with thse activists.
                                    >
                                    > Do NOT question the genuineness why people can hate
                                    > those right wing
                                    > Japanese and those government officials from their
                                    > president on the
                                    > fact that they never do anything so that they
                                    > themselves can move on
                                    > and be allowed to move on. It's about our parents,
                                    > sisters and
                                    > brothers who were brutally murdered/killed. It also
                                    > makes sense in
                                    > the west only when you send the murderer/killer to
                                    > jail or make him
                                    > pay for a price your soul could can be finally
                                    > settled down.
                                    > Otherwise, you will never settle down your soul till
                                    > the day you
                                    > leave the world. It's Simple but NOT easy!
                                    >
                                    > Do NOT advise the Chinese or Koreans to forget when
                                    > the Japanese have
                                    > NOT done their part. People will never forget until
                                    > they finally
                                    > start doing something good that can "comfort our
                                    > hearts" a little
                                    > bit, BUT NOT the otherwise AGAIN and AGAIN!
                                    >
                                    > LEARN FROM GERMANY! WAKE UP THE NAIVE AND
                                    > "PEACEFUL-MINDED"
                                    === message truncated ===




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                                  • greatwallmarathon
                                    Good evening, Today is the first working day in Japan after the long golden week.I went to the international school to teach Chinese language there. Before the
                                    Message 17 of 30 , May 9, 2005
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                                      Good evening,

                                      Today is the first working day in Japan after the long golden week.I
                                      went to the international school to teach Chinese language there.

                                      Before the Chinese class,I realized two other students were not in
                                      the classroom,so I went upstairs to look for them.

                                      When I came to the door of that classroom,the door opened,a little
                                      Japanese girl came out.She looked up at me with a very very lovely
                                      eyesight.Her name is Imari,4 years old.I touched her face and
                                      said"konichiwa!(hello)", she said "en,en,",then I
                                      added "koninichwa,ogenkidesuka.(how are you?)".

                                      Time was very short,I didn't pay much attention to her,and led the
                                      other two students away.

                                      After the Chinese class,I saw the mother of Imari.The mother was
                                      coming to fetch her daughter home.Imari was sitting on the floor
                                      changing shoes(At schools in Japan,students usually have two pairs of
                                      shoes,one pairs is inside shoes,another is for the outside).

                                      I greeted the mother,and Imari turned her her head back,and saw me
                                      again,she quickly pointed at my T-shirt and told her mother"dragon!
                                      dragon!"

                                      Then the mother told me dragon is what her daughter likes best,"Imari
                                      said when she grows up,she wants to become a black dragon."the mother
                                      continued to tell me.

                                      "Imari wants to learn Chinese language,but I turned down,she
                                      cried,because her schedule is tight this year,I decide to let Imari
                                      to learn Chinese language next year."the other said.

                                      Imari was sitting there on the floor and didn't want to go back
                                      home,I said:"Imari,listen to mama,go back home,OK?",then she
                                      unwillingly left.

                                      In Japan today,especially from this years,more and more Japanese
                                      children choose Chinese to learn.Chinese is becoming the second
                                      largest foreign language learned by Japanese students at schools.

                                      In this first day,I showed the Chinese DVD I bought in Beijing this
                                      golden week.It is Butterfly Lovers.All the students like it so much.

                                      Adam

                                      --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                      <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                      > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                                      > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2. If
                                      > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                                      Japanese
                                      > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up other
                                      > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                                      > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                                      country
                                      > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                                      > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                                      > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                                      innocent
                                      > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad happened
                                      to
                                      > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                                      > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                                      > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                                      stated
                                      > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                                      realize
                                      > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                                      their
                                      > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering Asians:?
                                      > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                                      > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse to
                                      > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than happy
                                      to
                                      > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                                      concious
                                      > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive them.
                                      > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                                      bashing
                                      > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will forever
                                      > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                                      otherwise.
                                      > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but today
                                      the
                                      > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon and
                                      > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                                      > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                                      from
                                      > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world
                                      for
                                      > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their porn
                                      > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht i
                                      > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from
                                      the
                                      > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from
                                      wht
                                      > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                                      wives.
                                      > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                                      > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                                      Japanese
                                      > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only fromm
                                      > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people, I
                                      > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                                      minded
                                      > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just
                                      like
                                      > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                                      > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                                      >
                                      > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                                      > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who
                                      else
                                      > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                                      > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                                      >
                                      > jane
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                                      > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                                      > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                                      men!
                                      > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                                      > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are with
                                      > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many
                                      > Japanese
                                      > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                                      outpour
                                      > > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post WW2
                                      > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in
                                      the
                                      > > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                                      sampling
                                      > of
                                      > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                                      Japanese
                                      > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions. Almost
                                      > all
                                      > > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented that
                                      they
                                      > > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't remember
                                      > who
                                      > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                                      > streets
                                      > > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese
                                      friends
                                      > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
                                      > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it as
                                      > just
                                      > > more Chinese propaganda.
                                      > >
                                      > > Jieming
                                      > > DragonSeedLegacy
                                      > > ChineseCultureOnline
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                      > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                                      > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside
                                      the
                                      > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                                      > greeted
                                      > > > me and asked where I had been.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                                      their
                                      > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with anyone
                                      in
                                      > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just finished
                                      > my
                                      > > > travel in this golden week.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "Where have you been?"
                                      > > > "Beijing,China".
                                      > > >
                                      > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                                      > complicated
                                      > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly because
                                      > Japan
                                      > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                                      > trade.China
                                      > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                                      Chinese
                                      > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                                      goods.This
                                      > is
                                      > > > just an example.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases
                                      and
                                      > had
                                      > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                                      Walls
                                      > and
                                      > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the Chinese
                                      > words
                                      > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                                      > want to
                                      > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                                      > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as
                                      the
                                      > one
                                      > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                                      like
                                      > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest me
                                      > marry
                                      > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in Japan.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                                      > this,but
                                      > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                                      > suggestion
                                      > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I wasn't
                                      > able
                                      > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                                      period
                                      > for
                                      > > > me.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Most Truely
                                      > > > Adam
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                      > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                      > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                                      > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > > > Terence,
                                      > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting to
                                      > hear
                                      > > > > what you have to say.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Jane and all,
                                      > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan needs
                                      > China
                                      > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening
                                      its
                                      > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                                      slump.
                                      > So
                                      > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco since
                                      > Jusco
                                      > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have to
                                      > pay
                                      > > > for
                                      > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in China,
                                      > Jusco
                                      > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                                      China.
                                      > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                                      > heat.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                                      Japan
                                      > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same. Both
                                      > of
                                      > > > them
                                      > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Roman.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                                      > really
                                      > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                                      > would
                                      > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b e
                                      a
                                      > long
                                      > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really understand
                                      > why
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                                      towards
                                      > this
                                      > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                                      > people
                                      > > > over
                                      > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                                      > towards
                                      > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what
                                      the
                                      > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                                      their
                                      > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for
                                      the
                                      > > > time
                                      > > > > being.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > jane
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                      > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                    • juanjuan
                                      good evening! please if you can keep telling us your interesting life in Japan. this is very interesting. a lot of Japanese like the Chinese language? Do they
                                      Message 18 of 30 , May 10, 2005
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                                        good evening! please if you can keep telling us your interesting life
                                        in Japan. this is very interesting.

                                        a lot of Japanese like the Chinese language? Do they like China at
                                        all? What is their feeling towards China? See they were very much
                                        relatives to Japan when you retrace its culture and origin. what do
                                        the common people view the correlation between Japanese culture anc
                                        CHinese culture? whatever feelings do they have towards the Chinese?

                                        thanks

                                        jane


                                        --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                        <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                        > Good evening,
                                        >
                                        > Today is the first working day in Japan after the long golden
                                        week.I
                                        > went to the international school to teach Chinese language there.
                                        >
                                        > Before the Chinese class,I realized two other students were not in
                                        > the classroom,so I went upstairs to look for them.
                                        >
                                        > When I came to the door of that classroom,the door opened,a little
                                        > Japanese girl came out.She looked up at me with a very very lovely
                                        > eyesight.Her name is Imari,4 years old.I touched her face and
                                        > said"konichiwa!(hello)", she said "en,en,",then I
                                        > added "koninichwa,ogenkidesuka.(how are you?)".
                                        >
                                        > Time was very short,I didn't pay much attention to her,and led the
                                        > other two students away.
                                        >
                                        > After the Chinese class,I saw the mother of Imari.The mother was
                                        > coming to fetch her daughter home.Imari was sitting on the floor
                                        > changing shoes(At schools in Japan,students usually have two pairs
                                        of
                                        > shoes,one pairs is inside shoes,another is for the outside).
                                        >
                                        > I greeted the mother,and Imari turned her her head back,and saw me
                                        > again,she quickly pointed at my T-shirt and told her mother"dragon!
                                        > dragon!"
                                        >
                                        > Then the mother told me dragon is what her daughter likes
                                        best,"Imari
                                        > said when she grows up,she wants to become a black dragon."the
                                        mother
                                        > continued to tell me.
                                        >
                                        > "Imari wants to learn Chinese language,but I turned down,she
                                        > cried,because her schedule is tight this year,I decide to let Imari
                                        > to learn Chinese language next year."the other said.
                                        >
                                        > Imari was sitting there on the floor and didn't want to go back
                                        > home,I said:"Imari,listen to mama,go back home,OK?",then she
                                        > unwillingly left.
                                        >
                                        > In Japan today,especially from this years,more and more Japanese
                                        > children choose Chinese to learn.Chinese is becoming the second
                                        > largest foreign language learned by Japanese students at schools.
                                        >
                                        > In this first day,I showed the Chinese DVD I bought in Beijing this
                                        > golden week.It is Butterfly Lovers.All the students like it so much.
                                        >
                                        > Adam
                                        >
                                        > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                        > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                        > > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                                        > > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2.
                                        If
                                        > > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                                        > Japanese
                                        > > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up other
                                        > > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                                        > > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                                        > country
                                        > > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                                        > > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                                        > > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                                        > innocent
                                        > > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad
                                        happened
                                        > to
                                        > > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                                        > > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                                        > > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                                        > stated
                                        > > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                                        > realize
                                        > > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                                        > their
                                        > > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering
                                        Asians:?
                                        > > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                                        > > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse
                                        to
                                        > > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than
                                        happy
                                        > to
                                        > > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                                        > concious
                                        > > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive
                                        them.
                                        > > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                                        > bashing
                                        > > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will
                                        forever
                                        > > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                                        > otherwise.
                                        > > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but today
                                        > the
                                        > > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon
                                        and
                                        > > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                                        > > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                                        > from
                                        > > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world
                                        > for
                                        > > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their
                                        porn
                                        > > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's wht
                                        i
                                        > > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from
                                        > the
                                        > > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from
                                        > wht
                                        > > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                                        > wives.
                                        > > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                                        > > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                                        > Japanese
                                        > > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only
                                        fromm
                                        > > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese people,
                                        I
                                        > > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                                        > minded
                                        > > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just
                                        > like
                                        > > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                                        > > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                                        > >
                                        > > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                                        > > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who
                                        > else
                                        > > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                                        > > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                                        > >
                                        > > jane
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                                        > > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                                        > men!
                                        > > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                                        > > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are
                                        with
                                        > > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many
                                        > > Japanese
                                        > > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                                        > outpour
                                        > > > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post WW2
                                        > > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in
                                        > the
                                        > > > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                                        > sampling
                                        > > of
                                        > > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                                        > Japanese
                                        > > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions.
                                        Almost
                                        > > all
                                        > > > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented that
                                        > they
                                        > > > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't
                                        remember
                                        > > who
                                        > > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                                        > > streets
                                        > > > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese
                                        > friends
                                        > > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now quite
                                        > > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it
                                        as
                                        > > just
                                        > > > more Chinese propaganda.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Jieming
                                        > > > DragonSeedLegacy
                                        > > > ChineseCultureOnline
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                        > > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                                        > > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside
                                        > the
                                        > > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                                        > > greeted
                                        > > > > me and asked where I had been.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                                        > their
                                        > > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with
                                        anyone
                                        > in
                                        > > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just
                                        finished
                                        > > my
                                        > > > > travel in this golden week.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > "Where have you been?"
                                        > > > > "Beijing,China".
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                                        > > complicated
                                        > > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly
                                        because
                                        > > Japan
                                        > > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                                        > > trade.China
                                        > > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                                        > Chinese
                                        > > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                                        > goods.This
                                        > > is
                                        > > > > just an example.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases
                                        > and
                                        > > had
                                        > > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                                        > Walls
                                        > > and
                                        > > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the
                                        Chinese
                                        > > words
                                        > > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                                        > > want to
                                        > > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                                        > > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as
                                        > the
                                        > > one
                                        > > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                                        > like
                                        > > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest
                                        me
                                        > > marry
                                        > > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in
                                        Japan.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                                        > > this,but
                                        > > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                                        > > suggestion
                                        > > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I
                                        wasn't
                                        > > able
                                        > > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                                        > period
                                        > > for
                                        > > > > me.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Most Truely
                                        > > > > Adam
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                        > > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                        > > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                                        > > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > Terence,
                                        > > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting
                                        to
                                        > > hear
                                        > > > > > what you have to say.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Jane and all,
                                        > > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan
                                        needs
                                        > > China
                                        > > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening
                                        > its
                                        > > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                                        > slump.
                                        > > So
                                        > > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco
                                        since
                                        > > Jusco
                                        > > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have
                                        to
                                        > > pay
                                        > > > > for
                                        > > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in
                                        China,
                                        > > Jusco
                                        > > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                                        > China.
                                        > > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                                        > > heat.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                                        > Japan
                                        > > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same.
                                        Both
                                        > > of
                                        > > > > them
                                        > > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Roman.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                                        > > really
                                        > > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                                        > > would
                                        > > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b
                                        e
                                        > a
                                        > > long
                                        > > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really
                                        understand
                                        > > why
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                                        > towards
                                        > > this
                                        > > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                                        > > people
                                        > > > > over
                                        > > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                                        > > towards
                                        > > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what
                                        > the
                                        > > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                                        > their
                                        > > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for
                                        > the
                                        > > > > time
                                        > > > > > being.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > jane
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                        > > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                      • juanjuan
                                        Tony, like you i don t have an answer either. i am thinking if Japan wants to avoid another nuclear bomb, next time it could be from Korea or China other than
                                        Message 19 of 30 , May 10, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Tony, like you i don't have an answer either. i am thinking if Japan
                                          wants to avoid another nuclear bomb, next time it could be from Korea
                                          or China other than the US, they should really introspect, and do
                                          somethiung accordingly. see what Jieming posted the article by a
                                          German scholar, the first step is to admit what was wrong....
                                          otherwise, Tony, please see my points, it's not up to other people to
                                          let them move on. it's up to themselves to let themselves move on.
                                          they have to do something in both words and deeds.... thank you...

                                          jane

                                          --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "John Gerlach"
                                          <firedog_hk@h...> wrote:
                                          > Tony
                                          >
                                          > I really appreciate what you are saying, and you are genuine in
                                          your efforts
                                          > to provide a bridge to put these things in the past.
                                          >
                                          > For Jane and others in China it is just not as simple as that. We
                                          often say
                                          > somewhat simplistically: 'I can forgive but I can't forget', but
                                          even this
                                          > is probably not true.
                                          >
                                          > When we consider that most of the world's major religious beliefs
                                          clearly
                                          > link forgiveness with genuine repentance, then it is perhaps naive
                                          to
                                          > suppose that we should be expected to forgive when there is no
                                          evidence of
                                          > repentance for deeds done. Even 'God' does not do this!
                                          >
                                          > Please don't consider this a theological treatise, it is just my
                                          own
                                          > reflection about how we sometimes overlook the deep things of the
                                          heart when
                                          > we comment on strong words from others.
                                          >
                                          > John
                                          >
                                          > ----Original Message Follows----
                                          > From: Tony <star_light_stud@y...>
                                          > Reply-To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                          > To: ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [ChineseCultureOnline] Re: about The Japanese!
                                          > Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 03:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
                                          >
                                          > Hi Jane,
                                          >
                                          > I can feel for how you reflect upon the sufferings of China from
                                          the hands
                                          > of the Japanese. Japan has suffered also. The United States bombed
                                          Japan
                                          > heavily during the end of the conflict of WWII. The USA also
                                          dropped two (2)
                                          > atomic bombs on Japanese soil. Perhaps Japan feels that it has paid
                                          its
                                          > price for its aggression during WWII. Only God can answer that
                                          question. The
                                          > bigger question is can we arise from our demons of the past for a
                                          greater
                                          > tomorrow?
                                          >
                                          > Regards,
                                          >
                                          > Tony
                                          >
                                          > juanjuan <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                          > Tony,
                                          >
                                          > Look at German and the Germany, thier president and see what they
                                          > have done and are doing and see how Europe and the rest of the
                                          world
                                          > are now dealing with them. Only yesterday i happened to see this
                                          from
                                          > TV. the Germany president applogized to Russia for the WW2 crimes
                                          and
                                          > made clear their stance against fascist. Now the Germany president
                                          > applogized AGAIN. I can't remember how many times and how many
                                          > occassions the Germany president appologized and had to appologize
                                          to
                                          > Europe and the world. As far as I know,, the rest of Europe has
                                          > forgiven Germany and has let them move on, accepted them as part of
                                          > the effort of battling against fascist or war. Germany has won the
                                          > world by thier words and deeds. The world has also let Germany move
                                          > on. The world is trying to forget the past what German did to their
                                          > millions of lives in the past. These things come NOT easy. Germany
                                          > has done what they should do. When Germany president appologized to
                                          > Russia yesterday, that alone BELITTLED the Japanese government -
                                          > other people like me don't need to say anthing else to make Japan
                                          > look bad/evil. See how the Japanese government again and again
                                          > hurting the Koreans and Chinese in particular by their deeds
                                          > (worshiping those war criminals, refusing in the first place
                                          Russia's
                                          > invitation to attend in the 60the anniversary of the victory taken
                                          > place yesterday, never applogizeed and made any compensation,
                                          > rewriting their text books etc and etc.) Tony, it's about the
                                          > killers' sons who continue to ignore the feellings of the sons of
                                          > those being killed - Please try to understand this.
                                          >
                                          > Things can be forgotten and peopole can be forgiven but they must
                                          > have a sound reason. No one wants to live in the past. Without these
                                          > terrible experiences happening on ssomeone themselves, it's only
                                          easy
                                          > to advise the children of those being killed to have a broad mind or
                                          > something to forgive the killer. But it should be easier to advise
                                          > the killer's children to do what they should do to win forgiveness.
                                          >
                                          > Do NOT make it a political conspriracy to make it the Chinese or
                                          > Korean government's trick to let people focus on the Japan issue
                                          > rather than their own internal problem. The Japanese issue is always
                                          > a totally different issue. It's about the people. This is a scar
                                          over
                                          > the deepest bottom of people's hearts. In fact, the Chinese
                                          > gogvernment, as i said it again and again,, is not as brave as the
                                          > korean government. All the time when there was a protest or soem
                                          anti-
                                          > Japan emotions, they put in the media and tell people to tone down,
                                          > calm down. bullshit! Nothing like the Korean president who would
                                          > declair a long lasting battle against the imperialist Japan
                                          > government. Those anti-Japan activists could be sent to jail some
                                          > years ago. It's only very recent that the governmet become a little
                                          > bit more toleratnt with thse activists.
                                          >
                                          > Do NOT question the genuineness why people can hate those right wing
                                          > Japanese and those government officials from their president on the
                                          > fact that they never do anything so that they themselves can move on
                                          > and be allowed to move on. It's about our parents, sisters and
                                          > brothers who were brutally murdered/killed. It also makes sense in
                                          > the west only when you send the murderer/killer to jail or make him
                                          > pay for a price your soul could can be finally settled down.
                                          > Otherwise, you will never settle down your soul till the day you
                                          > leave the world. It's Simple but NOT easy!
                                          >
                                          > Do NOT advise the Chinese or Koreans to forget when the Japanese
                                          have
                                          > NOT done their part. People will never forget until they finally
                                          > start doing something good that can "comfort our hearts" a little
                                          > bit, BUT NOT the otherwise AGAIN and AGAIN!
                                          >
                                          > LEARN FROM GERMANY! WAKE UP THE NAIVE AND "PEACEFUL-MINDED" JAPANESE
                                          > DAUGHTERS! STOP THE ARROGANT SONS WHO IRRITATE OTHER PEOPLE BY
                                          PAYING
                                          > RESPECT TO THOSE WORST SORT OF WAR CRIMINALS! SEND THOSE STILL
                                          LIVING
                                          > WAR CRIMINALS TO SEVERE PUNISHMENT! IS THAT PERHAPS TOO MUCH WE ARE
                                          > ASKING FOR???
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > jane
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Tony
                                          > <star_light_stud@y...> wrote:
                                          > > Hi Jane,
                                          > >
                                          > > To look back in anger is not good for the future. I suggest we
                                          > forgive our sins of the past if we are to have a future. That being
                                          > said, there are wrongs done by Japan in the past. But the bigger
                                          > question is why is this focused on now? Is this a pressure valve set
                                          > on by the Chinese government to get people unfocused on problems
                                          > China is facing today? The future is now, not in the past. Are the
                                          > Japanese becoming scapegoats for China's problems today? It is too
                                          > coincidental not to come to that conclusion.
                                          > >
                                          > > Regards and respect for all.
                                          > >
                                          > > Tony
                                          > >
                                          > > juanjuan <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                          > > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves for
                                          > > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2.
                                          If
                                          > > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                                          > Japanese
                                          > > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up other
                                          > > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why the
                                          > > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                                          > country
                                          > > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                                          > > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                                          > > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                                          > innocent
                                          > > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad
                                          happened
                                          > to
                                          > > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                                          > > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking about
                                          > > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                                          > stated
                                          > > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                                          > realize
                                          > > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                                          > their
                                          > > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering
                                          Asians:?
                                          > > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                                          > > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't choosse
                                          to
                                          > > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than
                                          happy
                                          > to
                                          > > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                                          > concious
                                          > > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive
                                          them.
                                          > > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                                          > bashing
                                          > > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will
                                          forever
                                          > > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                                          > otherwise.
                                          > > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but today
                                          > the
                                          > > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon
                                          and
                                          > > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and as
                                          > > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                                          > from
                                          > > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the world
                                          > for
                                          > > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their
                                          porn
                                          > > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's
                                          wht i
                                          > > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get from
                                          > the
                                          > > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised from
                                          > wht
                                          > > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                                          > wives.
                                          > > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and sometimes
                                          > > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                                          > Japanese
                                          > > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only
                                          fromm
                                          > > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese
                                          people, I
                                          > > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                                          > minded
                                          > > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are just
                                          > like
                                          > > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the world
                                          > > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                                          > >
                                          > > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and see
                                          > > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence.... who
                                          > else
                                          > > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open widens
                                          > > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                                          > >
                                          > > jane
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                                          > > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                                          > > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                                          > men!
                                          > > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on the
                                          > > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are
                                          with
                                          > > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many
                                          > > Japanese
                                          > > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                                          > outpour
                                          > > > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post
                                          WW2
                                          > > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role in
                                          > the
                                          > > > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                                          > sampling
                                          > > of
                                          > > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                                          > Japanese
                                          > > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions.
                                          Almost
                                          > > all
                                          > > > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented that
                                          > they
                                          > > > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't
                                          remember
                                          > > who
                                          > > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on the
                                          > > streets
                                          > > > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese
                                          > friends
                                          > > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now
                                          quite
                                          > > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing it
                                          as
                                          > > just
                                          > > > more Chinese propaganda.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Jieming
                                          > > > DragonSeedLegacy
                                          > > > ChineseCultureOnline
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In
                                          ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                          > > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                          > > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                                          > > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I live.Outside
                                          > the
                                          > > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw me,they
                                          > > greeted
                                          > > > > me and asked where I had been.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                                          > their
                                          > > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with
                                          anyone
                                          > in
                                          > > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just
                                          finished
                                          > > my
                                          > > > > travel in this golden week.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > "Where have you been?"
                                          > > > > "Beijing,China".
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                                          > > complicated
                                          > > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly
                                          because
                                          > > Japan
                                          > > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                                          > > trade.China
                                          > > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                                          > Chinese
                                          > > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                                          > goods.This
                                          > > is
                                          > > > > just an example.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel suicases
                                          > and
                                          > > had
                                          > > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                                          > Walls
                                          > > and
                                          > > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the
                                          Chinese
                                          > > words
                                          > > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said I
                                          > > want to
                                          > > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady to
                                          > > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady as
                                          > the
                                          > > one
                                          > > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                                          > like
                                          > > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they suggest
                                          me
                                          > > marry
                                          > > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in
                                          Japan.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                                          > > this,but
                                          > > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                                          > > suggestion
                                          > > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I
                                          wasn't
                                          > > able
                                          > > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                                          > period
                                          > > for
                                          > > > > me.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Most Truely
                                          > > > > Adam
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                          > > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                          > > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                                          > > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > Terence,
                                          > > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting
                                          to
                                          > > hear
                                          > > > > > what you have to say.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Jane and all,
                                          > > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan
                                          needs
                                          > > China
                                          > > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China opening
                                          > its
                                          > > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                                          > slump.
                                          > > So
                                          > > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco
                                          since
                                          > > Jusco
                                          > > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you have
                                          to
                                          > > pay
                                          > > > > for
                                          > > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in
                                          China,
                                          > > Jusco
                                          > > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                                          > China.
                                          > > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take the
                                          > > heat.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                                          > Japan
                                          > > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same.
                                          Both
                                          > > of
                                          > > > > them
                                          > > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Roman.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                                          > > really
                                          > > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world he
                                          > > would
                                          > > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll b
                                          e
                                          > a
                                          > > long
                                          > > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really
                                          understand
                                          > > why
                                          > > > > the
                                          > > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                                          > towards
                                          > > this
                                          > > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                                          > > people
                                          > > > > over
                                          > > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their anger
                                          > > towards
                                          > > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate what
                                          > the
                                          > > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                                          > their
                                          > > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now for
                                          > the
                                          > > > > time
                                          > > > > > being.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > jane
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                          > > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ---------------------------------
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                                          > >
                                          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                        • greatwallmarathon
                                          Good evening, More and more Japanese are becoming interested in Chinese language,Chinese Language Profeciency Test has become the top 8 most popular
                                          Message 20 of 30 , May 10, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Good evening,

                                            More and more Japanese are becoming interested in Chinese
                                            language,Chinese Language Profeciency Test has become the top 8 most
                                            popular certification tests of over 200 kinds in Japan every year.

                                            And I also cay say quite great number of Japanese people like China
                                            and like Chinese culture and at least over 80% Japanese people enjoy
                                            Chinese food so much.

                                            They all know that China is growing up very rapidly economically,and
                                            quite number of them think that China's economy will surpass Japan
                                            not far in the future,it will be just in around 20 years.

                                            Also in Japan's middle school textbooks,they also learn some famous
                                            Chinese poems of China's Tang Dynasty,etc.The Japanese who can master
                                            most Chinese characters are still much respected in the society.Maybe
                                            Japanese do not like to direct admitting that Japanese culture is
                                            much deeply influenced by Chinese culture,but it is a fact.But they
                                            never say no to Chinese culture.

                                            In Japan,if the Chinese can do the very good or excellent work,and be
                                            able to do the same level of work as them,they respect,otherwise.

                                            I would like to write the impressive things I meet,and I also would
                                            like to answer your more questions.

                                            Adam





                                            --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                            <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                            > good evening! please if you can keep telling us your interesting
                                            life
                                            > in Japan. this is very interesting.
                                            >
                                            > a lot of Japanese like the Chinese language? Do they like China at
                                            > all? What is their feeling towards China? See they were very much
                                            > relatives to Japan when you retrace its culture and origin. what do
                                            > the common people view the correlation between Japanese culture anc
                                            > CHinese culture? whatever feelings do they have towards the Chinese?
                                            >
                                            > thanks
                                            >
                                            > jane
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                            > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                            > > Good evening,
                                            > >
                                            > > Today is the first working day in Japan after the long golden
                                            > week.I
                                            > > went to the international school to teach Chinese language there.
                                            > >
                                            > > Before the Chinese class,I realized two other students were not
                                            in
                                            > > the classroom,so I went upstairs to look for them.
                                            > >
                                            > > When I came to the door of that classroom,the door opened,a
                                            little
                                            > > Japanese girl came out.She looked up at me with a very very
                                            lovely
                                            > > eyesight.Her name is Imari,4 years old.I touched her face and
                                            > > said"konichiwa!(hello)", she said "en,en,",then I
                                            > > added "koninichwa,ogenkidesuka.(how are you?)".
                                            > >
                                            > > Time was very short,I didn't pay much attention to her,and led
                                            the
                                            > > other two students away.
                                            > >
                                            > > After the Chinese class,I saw the mother of Imari.The mother was
                                            > > coming to fetch her daughter home.Imari was sitting on the floor
                                            > > changing shoes(At schools in Japan,students usually have two
                                            pairs
                                            > of
                                            > > shoes,one pairs is inside shoes,another is for the outside).
                                            > >
                                            > > I greeted the mother,and Imari turned her her head back,and saw
                                            me
                                            > > again,she quickly pointed at my T-shirt and told her
                                            mother"dragon!
                                            > > dragon!"
                                            > >
                                            > > Then the mother told me dragon is what her daughter likes
                                            > best,"Imari
                                            > > said when she grows up,she wants to become a black dragon."the
                                            > mother
                                            > > continued to tell me.
                                            > >
                                            > > "Imari wants to learn Chinese language,but I turned down,she
                                            > > cried,because her schedule is tight this year,I decide to let
                                            Imari
                                            > > to learn Chinese language next year."the other said.
                                            > >
                                            > > Imari was sitting there on the floor and didn't want to go back
                                            > > home,I said:"Imari,listen to mama,go back home,OK?",then she
                                            > > unwillingly left.
                                            > >
                                            > > In Japan today,especially from this years,more and more Japanese
                                            > > children choose Chinese to learn.Chinese is becoming the second
                                            > > largest foreign language learned by Japanese students at schools.
                                            > >
                                            > > In this first day,I showed the Chinese DVD I bought in Beijing
                                            this
                                            > > golden week.It is Butterfly Lovers.All the students like it so
                                            much.
                                            > >
                                            > > Adam
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                            > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                            > > > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves
                                            for
                                            > > > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the WW2.
                                            > If
                                            > > > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                                            > > Japanese
                                            > > > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up other
                                            > > > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why
                                            the
                                            > > > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                                            > > country
                                            > > > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                                            > > > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by the
                                            > > > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                                            > > innocent
                                            > > > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad
                                            > happened
                                            > > to
                                            > > > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one. The
                                            > > > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking
                                            about
                                            > > > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive. Someone
                                            > > stated
                                            > > > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                                            > > realize
                                            > > > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they believe
                                            > > their
                                            > > > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering
                                            > Asians:?
                                            > > > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                                            > > > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't
                                            choosse
                                            > to
                                            > > > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than
                                            > happy
                                            > > to
                                            > > > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                                            > > concious
                                            > > > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive
                                            > them.
                                            > > > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                                            > > bashing
                                            > > > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will
                                            > forever
                                            > > > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                                            > > otherwise.
                                            > > > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but
                                            today
                                            > > the
                                            > > > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their horizon
                                            > and
                                            > > > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and
                                            as
                                            > > > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read things
                                            > > from
                                            > > > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the
                                            world
                                            > > for
                                            > > > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean their
                                            > porn
                                            > > > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's
                                            wht
                                            > i
                                            > > > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get
                                            from
                                            > > the
                                            > > > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised
                                            from
                                            > > wht
                                            > > > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their Japanese
                                            > > wives.
                                            > > > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and
                                            sometimes
                                            > > > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                                            > > Japanese
                                            > > > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only
                                            > fromm
                                            > > > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese
                                            people,
                                            > I
                                            > > > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are peace-
                                            > > minded
                                            > > > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are
                                            just
                                            > > like
                                            > > > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the
                                            world
                                            > > > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and
                                            see
                                            > > > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence....
                                            who
                                            > > else
                                            > > > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open
                                            widens
                                            > > > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > jane
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                                            > > > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                                            > > > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those two
                                            > > men!
                                            > > > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on
                                            the
                                            > > > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions are
                                            > with
                                            > > > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side. Many
                                            > > > Japanese
                                            > > > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the overwhelming
                                            > > outpour
                                            > > > > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the post
                                            WW2
                                            > > > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's role
                                            in
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                                            > > sampling
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                                            > > Japanese
                                            > > > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions.
                                            > Almost
                                            > > > all
                                            > > > > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented
                                            that
                                            > > they
                                            > > > > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't
                                            > remember
                                            > > > who
                                            > > > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on
                                            the
                                            > > > streets
                                            > > > > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese
                                            > > friends
                                            > > > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now
                                            quite
                                            > > > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing
                                            it
                                            > as
                                            > > > just
                                            > > > > more Chinese propaganda.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Jieming
                                            > > > > DragonSeedLegacy
                                            > > > > ChineseCultureOnline
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In
                                            ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                            > > > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                            > > > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                                            > > > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I
                                            live.Outside
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw
                                            me,they
                                            > > > greeted
                                            > > > > > me and asked where I had been.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not know
                                            > > their
                                            > > > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with
                                            > anyone
                                            > > in
                                            > > > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just
                                            > finished
                                            > > > my
                                            > > > > > travel in this golden week.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > "Where have you been?"
                                            > > > > > "Beijing,China".
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                                            > > > complicated
                                            > > > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly
                                            > because
                                            > > > Japan
                                            > > > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                                            > > > trade.China
                                            > > > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                                            > > Chinese
                                            > > > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                                            > > goods.This
                                            > > > is
                                            > > > > > just an example.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel
                                            suicases
                                            > > and
                                            > > > had
                                            > > > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are Great
                                            > > Walls
                                            > > > and
                                            > > > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the
                                            > Chinese
                                            > > > words
                                            > > > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I said
                                            I
                                            > > > want to
                                            > > > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a lady
                                            to
                                            > > > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady
                                            as
                                            > > the
                                            > > > one
                                            > > > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling and
                                            > > like
                                            > > > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they
                                            suggest
                                            > me
                                            > > > marry
                                            > > > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in
                                            > Japan.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about all
                                            > > > this,but
                                            > > > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                                            > > > suggestion
                                            > > > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I
                                            > wasn't
                                            > > > able
                                            > > > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the busiest
                                            > > period
                                            > > > for
                                            > > > > > me.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Most Truely
                                            > > > > > Adam
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                            > > > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman Bates
                                            > > > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > Terence,
                                            > > > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is interesting
                                            > to
                                            > > > hear
                                            > > > > > > what you have to say.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Jane and all,
                                            > > > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan
                                            > needs
                                            > > > China
                                            > > > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China
                                            opening
                                            > > its
                                            > > > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in a
                                            > > slump.
                                            > > > So
                                            > > > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco
                                            > since
                                            > > > Jusco
                                            > > > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you
                                            have
                                            > to
                                            > > > pay
                                            > > > > > for
                                            > > > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in
                                            > China,
                                            > > > Jusco
                                            > > > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                                            > > China.
                                            > > > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take
                                            the
                                            > > > heat.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference between
                                            > > Japan
                                            > > > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the same.
                                            > Both
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > > > them
                                            > > > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Roman.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president was
                                            > > > really
                                            > > > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world
                                            he
                                            > > > would
                                            > > > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said it'll
                                            b
                                            > e
                                            > > a
                                            > > > long
                                            > > > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really
                                            > understand
                                            > > > why
                                            > > > > > the
                                            > > > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                                            > > towards
                                            > > > this
                                            > > > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind the
                                            > > > people
                                            > > > > > over
                                            > > > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their
                                            anger
                                            > > > towards
                                            > > > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate
                                            what
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans during
                                            > > their
                                            > > > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now
                                            for
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > > time
                                            > > > > > > being.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > jane
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                            > > > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                          • juanjuan
                                            What do people understand of the samurai spirit? What do they think of it? Do they highly value it? If so, give me examples please how they value it in their
                                            Message 21 of 30 , May 12, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              What do people understand of the samurai spirit? What do they think
                                              of it? Do they highly value it? If so, give me examples please how
                                              they value it in their life?

                                              Yea, please keep your writing whenever you feel like. thank you!

                                              Jane

                                              --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                              <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                              > Good evening,
                                              >
                                              > More and more Japanese are becoming interested in Chinese
                                              > language,Chinese Language Profeciency Test has become the top 8 most
                                              > popular certification tests of over 200 kinds in Japan every year.
                                              >
                                              > And I also cay say quite great number of Japanese people like China
                                              > and like Chinese culture and at least over 80% Japanese people enjoy
                                              > Chinese food so much.
                                              >
                                              > They all know that China is growing up very rapidly economically,and
                                              > quite number of them think that China's economy will surpass Japan
                                              > not far in the future,it will be just in around 20 years.
                                              >
                                              > Also in Japan's middle school textbooks,they also learn some famous
                                              > Chinese poems of China's Tang Dynasty,etc.The Japanese who can
                                              master
                                              > most Chinese characters are still much respected in the
                                              society.Maybe
                                              > Japanese do not like to direct admitting that Japanese culture is
                                              > much deeply influenced by Chinese culture,but it is a fact.But they
                                              > never say no to Chinese culture.
                                              >
                                              > In Japan,if the Chinese can do the very good or excellent work,and
                                              be
                                              > able to do the same level of work as them,they respect,otherwise.
                                              >
                                              > I would like to write the impressive things I meet,and I also would
                                              > like to answer your more questions.
                                              >
                                              > Adam
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                              > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                              > > good evening! please if you can keep telling us your interesting
                                              > life
                                              > > in Japan. this is very interesting.
                                              > >
                                              > > a lot of Japanese like the Chinese language? Do they like China
                                              at
                                              > > all? What is their feeling towards China? See they were very much
                                              > > relatives to Japan when you retrace its culture and origin. what
                                              do
                                              > > the common people view the correlation between Japanese culture
                                              anc
                                              > > CHinese culture? whatever feelings do they have towards the
                                              Chinese?
                                              > >
                                              > > thanks
                                              > >
                                              > > jane
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                              > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > Good evening,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Today is the first working day in Japan after the long golden
                                              > > week.I
                                              > > > went to the international school to teach Chinese language
                                              there.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Before the Chinese class,I realized two other students were not
                                              > in
                                              > > > the classroom,so I went upstairs to look for them.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > When I came to the door of that classroom,the door opened,a
                                              > little
                                              > > > Japanese girl came out.She looked up at me with a very very
                                              > lovely
                                              > > > eyesight.Her name is Imari,4 years old.I touched her face and
                                              > > > said"konichiwa!(hello)", she said "en,en,",then I
                                              > > > added "koninichwa,ogenkidesuka.(how are you?)".
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Time was very short,I didn't pay much attention to her,and led
                                              > the
                                              > > > other two students away.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > After the Chinese class,I saw the mother of Imari.The mother
                                              was
                                              > > > coming to fetch her daughter home.Imari was sitting on the
                                              floor
                                              > > > changing shoes(At schools in Japan,students usually have two
                                              > pairs
                                              > > of
                                              > > > shoes,one pairs is inside shoes,another is for the outside).
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I greeted the mother,and Imari turned her her head back,and saw
                                              > me
                                              > > > again,she quickly pointed at my T-shirt and told her
                                              > mother"dragon!
                                              > > > dragon!"
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Then the mother told me dragon is what her daughter likes
                                              > > best,"Imari
                                              > > > said when she grows up,she wants to become a black dragon."the
                                              > > mother
                                              > > > continued to tell me.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "Imari wants to learn Chinese language,but I turned down,she
                                              > > > cried,because her schedule is tight this year,I decide to let
                                              > Imari
                                              > > > to learn Chinese language next year."the other said.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Imari was sitting there on the floor and didn't want to go back
                                              > > > home,I said:"Imari,listen to mama,go back home,OK?",then she
                                              > > > unwillingly left.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > In Japan today,especially from this years,more and more
                                              Japanese
                                              > > > children choose Chinese to learn.Chinese is becoming the second
                                              > > > largest foreign language learned by Japanese students at
                                              schools.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > In this first day,I showed the Chinese DVD I bought in Beijing
                                              > this
                                              > > > golden week.It is Butterfly Lovers.All the students like it so
                                              > much.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Adam
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                              > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                              > > > > Don't tell me the Japanese are not responsible for themselves
                                              > for
                                              > > > > being so innocent and ignorant of what happened during the
                                              WW2.
                                              > > If
                                              > > > > they can't read from their own texxt books, can't the modern
                                              > > > Japanese
                                              > > > > today, they surely believe they are very modern, dig up
                                              other
                                              > > > > resources worldwide and make themselves at least aware of why
                                              > the
                                              > > > > world hasn't forgiven themselves and are still accusing their
                                              > > > country
                                              > > > > for whatever reason ? There is a reason why their
                                              > > > > governemtns/previous ones/current ones are so much hated by
                                              the
                                              > > > > conscious people worldwide. They can't be excused for being
                                              > > > innocent
                                              > > > > and ignorant and thus peace-minded. Right, if nothing bad
                                              > > happened
                                              > > > to
                                              > > > > a person, he is more or less like a child and a naive one.
                                              The
                                              > > > > innocent minded Japanese people today you guys are talking
                                              > about
                                              > > > > makes me believe they choose to be innocent and naive.
                                              Someone
                                              > > > stated
                                              > > > > the fact a while ago that the majority Japanese people cdon't
                                              > > > realize
                                              > > > > the war and the invasion was wrong or evil, or do they
                                              believe
                                              > > > their
                                              > > > > soldiers and people went to 'LIBERATE the other suffering
                                              > > Asians:?
                                              > > > > See how unbearably innocent these people are!!! This is not
                                              > > > > acceptable at all. If the majority Japanese people don't
                                              > choosse
                                              > > to
                                              > > > > become JUST people, their governments are of cours more than
                                              > > happy
                                              > > > to
                                              > > > > brainwahs them and maintain thir innocence. While, the world
                                              > > > concious
                                              > > > > people will continue to accuse them, blame them, not forgive
                                              > > them.
                                              > > > > They will forever live in the world where they hear Japanese
                                              > > > bashing
                                              > > > > either by the Chinese or Koreans or other people. They will
                                              > > forever
                                              > > > > live with all types of propaganda either aimed at them or
                                              > > > otherwise.
                                              > > > > We in China also live in a biased media world mostly, but
                                              > today
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > world has changed, people can choosee to open up their
                                              horizon
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > read things from other sources. Don't tell me as "modern" and
                                              > as
                                              > > > > developed as Japan, the Japanese people still can't read
                                              things
                                              > > > from
                                              > > > > other places. They have been developed and opened up to the
                                              > world
                                              > > > for
                                              > > > > decades while China's case was only a recent one. I mean
                                              their
                                              > > porn
                                              > > > > industry is much more developed than everywhere else, thaat's
                                              > wht
                                              > > i
                                              > > > > heard of, because guys tell me the porn videos they can get
                                              > from
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > market mostly come from Japan. I am however still surprised
                                              > from
                                              > > > wht
                                              > > > > Adam told about the two Japanese men thought of their
                                              Japanese
                                              > > > wives.
                                              > > > > I thought the Japanese women look quite traditoinal and
                                              > sometimes
                                              > > > > submissive from wht iheard of, tht's surprising when the two
                                              > > > Japanese
                                              > > > > men would think so lowly of their women. anyway, that' s only
                                              > > fromm
                                              > > > > two Japanese men. but again back to the innocent Japanese
                                              > people,
                                              > > I
                                              > > > > doubt that they are now peace-minded is because they are
                                              peace-
                                              > > > minded
                                              > > > > or innocent people in nature, I would rather think they are
                                              > just
                                              > > > like
                                              > > > > those baby minds and have never learnt the evil side of the
                                              > world
                                              > > > > they were once associated with and are still part of it.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > having said thse, I would love to talk more on this issue and
                                              > see
                                              > > > > more postings from Adam, Jieming, Roman, Tony , Terrence....
                                              > who
                                              > > > else
                                              > > > > please... thanks.. (keeping the communication channel open
                                              > widens
                                              > > > > chances for more understanding. :) so no offense taken indeed.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > jane
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "liang_jieming"
                                              > > > > <kitmengleong@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > That's a very interesting conversation you had with those
                                              two
                                              > > > men!
                                              > > > > > It's interesting to get an insight into what the "people on
                                              > the
                                              > > > > > ground" think and feel, especially what their perceptions
                                              are
                                              > > with
                                              > > > > > regard to all the Japan bashing from the Chinese side.
                                              Many
                                              > > > > Japanese
                                              > > > > > don't hate China and are quite surprised at the
                                              overwhelming
                                              > > > outpour
                                              > > > > > of emotions and anger towards Japan. I don't think the
                                              post
                                              > WW2
                                              > > > > > generation of Japan have a true appreciation of Japan's
                                              role
                                              > in
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > > war. I once watched a documentary many years ago where a
                                              > > > sampling
                                              > > > > of
                                              > > > > > teenagers and young adults were shown pictures and clips of
                                              > > > Japanese
                                              > > > > > wartime "activities" and then polled for their reactions.
                                              > > Almost
                                              > > > > all
                                              > > > > > expressed shock and disbelief. Everyone of them commented
                                              > that
                                              > > > they
                                              > > > > > had never read of or seen such pictures before. I can't
                                              > > remember
                                              > > > > who
                                              > > > > > made the documentary but it showed interviews conducted on
                                              > the
                                              > > > > streets
                                              > > > > > of major cities in Japan. My own experiences with Japanese
                                              > > > friends
                                              > > > > > show a similar trend, with the exception that they are now
                                              > quite
                                              > > > > > fed-up and jaded about the whole affair, readily dismissing
                                              > it
                                              > > as
                                              > > > > just
                                              > > > > > more Chinese propaganda.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Jieming
                                              > > > > > DragonSeedLegacy
                                              > > > > > ChineseCultureOnline
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- In
                                              > ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "greatwallmarathon"
                                              > > > > > <greatwallmarathon@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > Last night,I came back to Japan from Beijing.
                                              > > > > > > Before 23 o'clock,I came to the mansion where I
                                              > live.Outside
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > > > building,two Japanese men were talking.When they saw
                                              > me,they
                                              > > > > greeted
                                              > > > > > > me and asked where I had been.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > I know they two also live in this mansion,but I do not
                                              know
                                              > > > their
                                              > > > > > > names.Usually I do not actively and initially talk with
                                              > > anyone
                                              > > > in
                                              > > > > > > Japan.But they are so friendly,so I replied I had just
                                              > > finished
                                              > > > > my
                                              > > > > > > travel in this golden week.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > "Where have you been?"
                                              > > > > > > "Beijing,China".
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > China is a name for most Japanese people who have a very
                                              > > > > complicated
                                              > > > > > > feelings about.China is a country that they like madly
                                              > > because
                                              > > > > Japan
                                              > > > > > > and Japan have formed the No.1 links in the business and
                                              > > > > trade.China
                                              > > > > > > is also a country they feel not understanding why so many
                                              > > > Chinese
                                              > > > > > > people went to the street for boycotting the Japanese
                                              > > > goods.This
                                              > > > > is
                                              > > > > > > just an example.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > So I stopped outside the building with my big travel
                                              > suicases
                                              > > > and
                                              > > > > had
                                              > > > > > > the talks with them,they told me in Beijing there are
                                              Great
                                              > > > Walls
                                              > > > > and
                                              > > > > > > Beijing Roasted Duck,and they also tried to tell me the
                                              > > Chinese
                                              > > > > words
                                              > > > > > > and short sentences they can speak.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > After a while,they asked me if I have married or not.I
                                              said
                                              > I
                                              > > > > want to
                                              > > > > > > marry this year,but I am looking for the girlfriend,a
                                              lady
                                              > to
                                              > > > > > > marry.They they two told me not to look for Japanese lady
                                              > as
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > one
                                              > > > > > > to marry,they said the Japanese ladies like to gambling
                                              and
                                              > > > like
                                              > > > > > > having sex with other men if you go to work,and they
                                              > suggest
                                              > > me
                                              > > > > marry
                                              > > > > > > a Chinese girl and when you get marry you two can live in
                                              > > Japan.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > This is the first time,I talked with Japanese men about
                                              all
                                              > > > > this,but
                                              > > > > > > I could strongly feel that they are really giving me the
                                              > > > > suggestion
                                              > > > > > > from their own experience and they own life.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Our talk lasted till 0:30.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Thank you Juanuan for starting the topic,I feel sorry I
                                              > > wasn't
                                              > > > > able
                                              > > > > > > to write more because the time before May 1 is the
                                              busiest
                                              > > > period
                                              > > > > for
                                              > > > > > > me.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Most Truely
                                              > > > > > > Adam
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, "juanjuan"
                                              > > > > > > <yijane01@m...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > --- In ChineseCultureOnline@yahoogroups.com, Roman
                                              Bates
                                              > > > > > > > <stamfordbr1997@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > Terence,
                                              > > > > > > > > You don't post often but when you do, it is
                                              interesting
                                              > > to
                                              > > > > hear
                                              > > > > > > > what you have to say.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Jane and all,
                                              > > > > > > > > What I meant to say in my earlier post is that Japan
                                              > > needs
                                              > > > > China
                                              > > > > > > > more than China needs Japan. If it wasn't for China
                                              > opening
                                              > > > its
                                              > > > > > > > market to the world, Japan's economy would still be in
                                              a
                                              > > > slump.
                                              > > > > So
                                              > > > > > > > China doesn't have to worry if protesters target Jusco
                                              > > since
                                              > > > > Jusco
                                              > > > > > > > needs to stay in China to survive. That's a price you
                                              > have
                                              > > to
                                              > > > > pay
                                              > > > > > > for
                                              > > > > > > > your country's past. In addition to record profits in
                                              > > China,
                                              > > > > Jusco
                                              > > > > > > > also has to endure the backlash anytime Japan ticks off
                                              > > > China.
                                              > > > > > > > Otherwise, you can always leave China if you can't take
                                              > the
                                              > > > > heat.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Frankly, I don't buy that there is a difference
                                              between
                                              > > > Japan
                                              > > > > > > > right/left wingers and investors. They are all the
                                              same.
                                              > > Both
                                              > > > > of
                                              > > > > > > them
                                              > > > > > > > are supported by the Japanese government.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Roman.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Yea, i agree. that's why i think the Korean president
                                              was
                                              > > > > really
                                              > > > > > > > great when he announced to all his people and the world
                                              > he
                                              > > > > would
                                              > > > > > > > fight against Japan in whatever ways. he also said
                                              it'll
                                              > b
                                              > > e
                                              > > > a
                                              > > > > long
                                              > > > > > > > lasting "war" for all his people. i don';t really
                                              > > understand
                                              > > > > why
                                              > > > > > > the
                                              > > > > > > > Chinese governemnt has to take a soft stance sometimes
                                              > > > towards
                                              > > > > this
                                              > > > > > > > imperialism Japanese government and constantly remind
                                              the
                                              > > > > people
                                              > > > > > > over
                                              > > > > > > > media to take "sensible approaches" to express their
                                              > anger
                                              > > > > towards
                                              > > > > > > > it. Shit! I am not that radical in nature, but I hate
                                              > what
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > > > > Japanese governemnt did to the millions of humans
                                              during
                                              > > > their
                                              > > > > > > > occupation and the war period. I shall zip my mouth now
                                              > for
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > > > time
                                              > > > > > > > being.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > jane
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends
                                              > > > > > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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