Re: On a day honoring TOLERANCE :(
- I figured you would misinterpret my comments, Toni. I'm trying to help you. I don't do challenges. I'm not the one with a group of people calling for my head. I personally don't care what you do to justify your finds--thats *your* numbers and it does not have any effect on mine. But that also doesn't mean that I have to be mute on the matter either. You have a history of doing it "wrong" in many people's eyes (as you admitted yourself with your last post) but everyone likes you so most wouldn't say so. It's not an issue unless you want to make it one--we all like you Toni. If you can't take justified and legit criticism then thats your problem not mine. I'm just trying to help as to what might have spurred this backlash since I find it hard to believe this all is from a single cache. More likely this was the tipping point and not the the fuse. But what do i know? Apparently you don't even do that stuff anymore tho do its whatever anyways.
In response to Matt--I was under the impression that the CO was not directly involve in the beefing since I didn't get to see the logs. I probably don't have enough info to comment one way or the other given such but in general I agree with Wade. He stated it better than I could.
--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "busybeetoni" wrote:
> Dirk, I used to count my own caches as finds when I first started geocaching because I didn't know any better. That FTF that we shared, we no longer do. The CO of that cache told me to count it as an FTF because I was there first where it was originally hidden and it was missing before even found. I did count it at first, but then took it off. You said at an event that you didn't care because it's just a game, but apparently you do so I'm glad I took it off. Although I was there first, I didn't find it. CO permission or not, the FTF was rightfully yours.
> --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Dirk" wrote:
> > Sorry to hear this happened Toni. I didn't get to read the logs before they were deleted but backhanded and/or threatening comments are always uncalled for. I've unfortunately had people leave snarky comments directed at me but, from the sounds of it, nothing as extreme as yours.
> > I'm only now familiar with the new rule but guess I would compare it to every other complaint about "going against the COs intension/instruction/BS" ...which I've certainly been accused of doing, lol. Nothing in the rules saying you can't out-think a hide however COs and lurkers sure get their panties in a wad if you do, so you should expect the same I figure.
> > Ultimately, if you don't want to get called out then I guess you *should* take into account what the CO's intention is for the cache/challenge and, *probably more importantly*, what hoops your fellow cachers are jumping through that you are side stepping. IMHO it's really you ruining the game just as much as your critics with their nasty comments--it takes two to tango... And forcing the cache to be archived (either by you or your supporters) is a clear continuation of such nastiness.
> > Everyone rule bends I figure (I do), but avoid the especially taboo stuff if you don't want to be a target--I've noticed you do/did use to log your own hides (more than once if you replaced the log), count events as FTFs, count your own events as FTFs, sidestep CO intents, claim unfound hides (we share a FTF and we certainly did not find it together), etc, etc... Hey, if that's the way you want to play then whatever, but doing those things are going to open you up to more criticism ultimately (and has!)... so clean up your game if you don't want the criticism... or do what you do and grow thick skin like me! "It's a game" everyone always says but thats plain BS... people take it crazy serious as you well know. It's not "just a game" to most and if you really talk to people everyone has a very developed code of ethics that they unrealistically expect others to follow... or worse, expect others to follow but don't themselves!
> > Anyways, if you feel you are being true to yourself then don't worry about those people. And if not, then reassess the way you are playing maybe?
> > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "busybeetoni" wrote:
> > >
> > > Exactly. Putting 2013 in the title and on the top line doesn't superceded Groundspeak rules.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm going to my happy place now. Why don't you turn this back into a happy place and I'll see you all soon.
> > >
> > > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Rachele DiTullio wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wade,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not asking whether the CO would have noticed; I'm asking if we would be
> > > > having this public discussion if she had been anything other than FTF. And
> > > > I interpret the cache name to simply mean a new cache for a new year; I
> > > > don't understand why anyone thinks that the CO's intent trumps the
> > > > Groundspeak rules. Why is that?
> > > >
> > > > -Rachele/strontium87
> > > >
> > >
This is my last post in this thread for the sake of ending this debacle. Sorry, I've got a lot going on in my life right now so I'm limited on time in which I can respond.
CO started off just stating that the requirements had not been met but then went back and chimed in their own two cents about two times with everyone else. It was not as belittling as what others had been saying, but it was negative and hurtful as well.
The last post anyone made before I posted a need archive was about how there were 52ish people watching the cache and that Toni should really be careful about how she 'is antagonizing NTX and trying to force them to cache her way."
And the only opinion I will offer to this now... good. The best way to move past this in the first way is to do the fair thing, prevent further debate over it, align to what Groundspeak says, and if that means archive the cache, do so.On Jan 22, 2013 7:07 PM, "GrnBeret2B" <grn.beret.2b@...> wrote:
Can someone please point me to yahoogroups functionality, should it exist, that allows me to unsubscribe from a single thread so that I don't have to continue receiving emails that consist of little more than internet arguments (I quit moderating F2P MMO forums for a reason....), but can still receive the emails that contain the quality posts that I know the members of this group are capable of making?TIA!~~Nathaniela.k.a. GrnBeret2BOn Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Wade Mercer <wade1@...> wrote:Well I guess y'all got your wish and the challenge cache has been archived. I hope y'all feel some vindication with your "victory". Apparently Tori's log has been restated too even though she did not complete the challenge.What a sad turn of events. It's sad that a group of cachers made such a big deal out of this one simply because their caches with dates restrictions were not approved. This seems to be the real issue.As far as I am concerned Tori's log is not valid. It wasn't logged with respect to what the cache was intended or approved. From the messages I have received outside of this list there's lots I could say with respect to this, but it would serve no purpose here.Again, congratulations in winning. Apparently its what y'all wanted. Unfortunately it's a loss for the caching community, but I don't think that is, or ever was, a concern.Just my two cents worth.Wade
On Jan 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, "bigguy9211116" <bigguy9211116@...> wrote:
On a day set aside to honor a man that stood up for tolerance and equality I am saddened by all the hoopla circling around our own tfbrown and a cache in the Dallas area.
I dont' know how many of you watch the cache GC432W3 - "2013 Geocacheers To Do List" by zeppo!, but maybe you should go there and read the ugly, mean, nasty, and even threatening posts made by so many.
I am saddened by the whole affair and I can only imagine what tfbrown must be feeling.
I have tried to make some sense out of the whole thing and have tried very hard not to get involved (except one post in her defense) but I just had to vent somewhere.
After much reflection, I have come to a realization that Prime Reviewer allowed this cache to be published as a 2013 finds only cache! That must be why the cachers up there are so upset. They are not aware that down here we were not ALLOWED to do that!
I listed GC4291X - The @#$%& ABC Challenge even before zeppo! did (mine published 12/28/12, his was published 12/31/12) and was explicitly told that this was not allowed by Groundspeak.
Well, I guess this truly means that we are NOT all equal!
Please know that I mean no disrespect to anyone involved with this cache. I represent no opinions other than my own and I speak for no one except myself. Thank you for the opporutnity to speak.
A sad day indeed,
Esther/ Bigguy In Texas