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Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

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  • GrnBeret2B
    Did a quick look at WCAD s site, everything on the north bank is privately owned except for a small strip that extends just a short distance west of Morris
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 13, 2012
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    Did a quick look at WCAD's site, everything on the "north" bank is privately owned except for a small strip that extends just a short distance "west" of Morris Dr (R040423) which I'm pretty sure the cache was not in, though I could be wrong.


    It's not a brutal archival log, either.  Obviously he got an email or was told by GS to archive the cache because they had been contacted the property owner.

    Premium members should be able to log archived caches, regular members cannot.

    Nathaniel
    a.k.a. grn beret 2b

    On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Matt Wilson <matt@...> wrote:
     

    Holy cow!!  Was AJW (GC2YVT7) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far. 

    Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad. 

    Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Matt / Kemis

    Sent from a mobile device

    On Dec 12, 2012, at 10:50 PM, "Keith Wilson" <keith.wilson@...> wrote:

    http://coord.info/GC2YVT7

    Cache is archived and I can't log our find.  Read the recent notes...

    --

    Thanks,

    Keith W Wilson
    Gifts Receipting and Logistics Coordinator
    www.e3partners.org


  • gumbietygress@juno.com
    The only archived caches that I found unloggable were the ET Highway version 1 during that mess -- mostly because people were swamping them with comments. GC
    Message 2 of 13 , Dec 13, 2012
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      The only archived caches that I found unloggable were the ET Highway version 1 during that mess -- mostly because people were swamping them with comments. GC relented on that, because many legitimate finders hadn't logged yet.
       
      You found it, you log it.
       
      OTOH, admit it, we ARE casual about placement and tend to treat any accessible space as our own. [You do know parking lots are essentially private property... and if something were to happen in one, the owners are liable. See it from their point of view.]
      Mostly every one turns a blind eye to this... but cases happen.
      And some caches on public lands (at least one neighborhood cemetery) were taken down because they spooked the neighbors.
      I don't know the details of this one -- and sometimes Prime does act harshly preemptively, but has his reasons.
      But there are plenty of places for caches.
      A moment of sad silence, of course, and a warning -- to COs and seekers (probably unnecessary here with this crowd) -- to have a care toward the broader, non-caching, picture.
       
      -B/Tygress


      ---------- Original Message ----------
      From: Matt Wilson <matt@...>
      To: "CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com" <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: Fred Wilson <fred@...>, Keith Wilson <keith.wilson@...>
      Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] AJW's Initial Cache archived!?
      Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:37:41 +0000

      Holy cow!!  Was AJW (GC2YVT7) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far. 
       
      Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad. 
       
      Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?

      Thanks,
      Matt / Kemis
       
      Sent from a mobile device

      On Dec 12, 2012, at 10:50 PM, "Keith Wilson" <keith.wilson@...> wrote:

      http://coord.info/GC2YVT7
       
      Cache is archived and I can't log our find.  Read the recent notes...
       
      --

      Thanks,

      Keith W Wilson
      Gifts Receipting and Logistics Coordinator
      www.e3partners.org
       



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    • Dave Read
      This is a serious bummer, because that cache was part of the solution to a puzzle. The owner is going to have some heavy lifting to do to restore that puzzle
      Message 3 of 13 , Dec 13, 2012
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        This is a serious bummer, because that cache was part of the solution to a puzzle. The owner is going to have some heavy lifting to do to restore that puzzle if he can't recover the contents of the cache container. :(

        Cheers,
        Dave
        Team Landshark

        From: Matt Wilson <matt@...>
        Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:37 AM
        To: "CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com" <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: Fred Wilson <fred@...>, Keith Wilson <keith.wilson@...>
        Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

         

        Holy cow!!  Was AJW (GC2YVT7) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far. 

        Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad. 

        Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?

        Thanks,
        Matt / Kemis

        Sent from a mobile device

        On Dec 12, 2012, at 10:50 PM, "Keith Wilson" <keith.wilson@...> wrote:

        http://coord.info/GC2YVT7

        Cache is archived and I can't log our find.  Read the recent notes...

        --

        Thanks,

        Keith W Wilson
        Gifts Receipting and Logistics Coordinator
        www.e3partners.org

      • Jay Bingham
        So sad to see that one go. Yes, Barb/Tygress, there are lots of places for caches most of them mundane, there are far fewer exceptional places for caches and
        Message 4 of 13 , Dec 13, 2012
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          So sad to see that one go. Yes, Barb/Tygress, there are lots of places for caches most of them mundane, there are far fewer exceptional places for caches and that one was an exceptional place. I wondered when I found it if it was not on private property. Given the terrain rating I can see why a property owner would not want to have the liability if something happened there.

           

          --| Jay /\ Bing-GTX
          |+| Georgetown , TX USA
          |-- “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”

           


          From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Matt Wilson
          Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:38 AM
          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Fred Wilson; Keith Wilson
          Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

           

           

          Holy cow!!  Was AJW (GC2YVT7) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far. 

           

          Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad. 

           

          Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?

          Thanks,
          Matt / Kemis

           

          Sent from a mobile device


          On Dec 12, 2012, at 10:50 PM, "Keith Wilson" <keith.wilson@...> wrote:

          http://coord.info/GC2YVT7

           

          Cache is archived and I can't log our find.  Read the recent notes...

           

          --

          Thanks,

          Keith W Wilson
          Gifts Receipting and Logistics Coordinator
          www.e3partners.org

        • Dave Read
          I had the same thought about the property owner s motivation. Of course, given the proximity of the property to public park space, it s surprising that the
          Message 5 of 13 , Dec 13, 2012
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            I had the same thought about the property owner's motivation. Of course, given the proximity of the property to public park space, it's surprising that the property owner didn't have "Private Property" signs all over the place anyway.

            The only beef I had with the property owner and Prime is that they did not just contact the CO and ask him to remove the cache…

            Dave
            Team Landshark

            From: Jay Bingham <binghamjc@...>
            Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:25 AM
            To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

             

            So sad to see that one go. Yes, Barb/Tygress, there are lots of places for caches most of them mundane, there are far fewer exceptional places for caches and that one was an exceptional place. I wondered when I found it if it was not on private property. Given the terrain rating I can see why a property owner would not want to have the liability if something happened there.

             

            --| Jay /\ Bing-GTX
            |+| Georgetown , TX USA
            |-- “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”

             


            From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Matt Wilson
            Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:38 AM
            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Fred Wilson; Keith Wilson
            Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

             

             

            Holy cow!!  Was AJW (GC2YVT7) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far. 

             

            Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad. 

             

            Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?

            Thanks,
            Matt / Kemis

             

            Sent from a mobile device


            On Dec 12, 2012, at 10:50 PM, "Keith Wilson" <keith.wilson@...> wrote:

            http://coord.info/GC2YVT7

             

            Cache is archived and I can't log our find.  Read the recent notes...

             

            --

            Thanks,

            Keith W Wilson
            Gifts Receipting and Logistics Coordinator
            www.e3partners.org

          • atxtracker
            ... Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I m sorry for
            Message 6 of 13 , Dec 13, 2012
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              --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Matt Wilson <matt@...> wrote:
              >
              > Holy cow!! Was AJW (GC2YVT7<http://coord.info/GC2YVT7>) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far.
              >
              > Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad.
              >
              > Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?
              >


              Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I'm sorry for the trouble I caused the land owner.

              Side Note: There are other maps (http://dgcoursemaps.com/CourseMaps/Print/RiveryPark.jpg) that are not so clear and show green space on the far side of the river. Ironically this map is posted on a big sign in the park itself. I am not disputing the archival, only noting that it was not intentional. There were no private property signs (at the time) or fences, and the posted map appears to be wrong.

              Advanced notification of the archival would have been nice, but I don't feel like it is owed to me, as I am the one who made the error.

              My main reason for posting is to let everyone know that the PowerRiddle Series is still in play, and has been updated to remove the dependence on AJW. I am working on a replacement, but it is not ready yet.

              Happy Caching,
              John
            • Russ Jernigan
              Thanks John! We enjoyed doing the Power Riddle series early this year, so I m glad it is still available. Russ the Waterweasel -----Original Message----- From:
              Message 7 of 13 , Dec 13, 2012
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                Thanks John!

                We enjoyed doing the Power Riddle series early this year, so I'm glad it is still available.

                Russ the Waterweasel

                -----Original Message-----
                From: atxtracker
                Sent: Dec 13, 2012 2:24 PM
                To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

                 



                --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Matt Wilson <matt@...> wrote:
                >
                > Holy cow!! Was AJW (GC2YVT7<http://coord.info/GC2YVT7>) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far.
                >
                > Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad.
                >
                > Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?
                >

                Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I'm sorry for the trouble I caused the land owner.

                Side Note: There are other maps (http://dgcoursemaps.com/CourseMaps/Print/RiveryPark.jpg) that are not so clear and show green space on the far side of the river. Ironically this map is posted on a big sign in the park itself. I am not disputing the archival, only noting that it was not intentional. There were no private property signs (at the time) or fences, and the posted map appears to be wrong.

                Advanced notification of the archival would have been nice, but I don't feel like it is owed to me, as I am the one who made the error.

                My main reason for posting is to let everyone know that the PowerRiddle Series is still in play, and has been updated to remove the dependence on AJW. I am working on a replacement, but it is not ready yet.

                Happy Caching,
                John

                
                
              • alan_tagit
                Glad to see PR is still in play. We did get this several months ago and between trying to solve the riddle and making a few bad assumptions we re looking
                Message 8 of 13 , Dec 14, 2012
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                  Glad to see PR is still in play. We did get this several months ago and between trying to solve the riddle and making a few bad assumptions we're looking forward to finding the gutta-percha.

                  Thanks John,
                  Tom and Julie
                  TandJ1120

                  --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "atxtracker" <truck@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Matt Wilson <matt@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Holy cow!! Was AJW (GC2YVT7<http://coord.info/GC2YVT7>) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far.
                  > >
                  > > Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad.
                  > >
                  > > Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I'm sorry for the trouble I caused the land owner.
                  >
                  > Side Note: There are other maps (http://dgcoursemaps.com/CourseMaps/Print/RiveryPark.jpg) that are not so clear and show green space on the far side of the river. Ironically this map is posted on a big sign in the park itself. I am not disputing the archival, only noting that it was not intentional. There were no private property signs (at the time) or fences, and the posted map appears to be wrong.
                  >
                  > Advanced notification of the archival would have been nice, but I don't feel like it is owed to me, as I am the one who made the error.
                  >
                  > My main reason for posting is to let everyone know that the PowerRiddle Series is still in play, and has been updated to remove the dependence on AJW. I am working on a replacement, but it is not ready yet.
                  >
                  > Happy Caching,
                  > John
                  >
                • Jay Bingham
                  I have mentioned this before, but I think that it bears mentioning again. The Williamson County Appraisal District (WCAD) has an online GIS map application
                  Message 9 of 13 , Dec 14, 2012
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                    I have mentioned this before, but I think that it bears mentioning again.

                    The Williamson County Appraisal District (WCAD) has an online GIS map application that shows property lines relative to streets and natural features such as rivers. This application has the ability to show coordinates for where the mouse is on the map, unfortunately they are not in any geographic coordinate format that I recognize. The coordinates for the center of the intersection of FM1460 and Industrial Ave. near the WCAD office are given as -10873237.694606127 3483863.831888059, which is obviously not degrees. Using the GPS Coordinate Converter, Maps and Info web site (http://boulter.com/gps/) and clicking on approximately the same location I get 30.622821228814843 -97.67601415514946 (or 30.622821 -97.676014 with less precision, N 30 37.369 W 97 40.561 in the format that we all know and love). It would be grand to know what system they are using for their coordinates and if it can be converted into something useful to us geocachers because then you could be much more precise about public vs private property. I looked on the website and could not find any reference to what coordinate system it is. By moving the cursor around I determined that the first number is the longitude component while the second is the latitude component. The coordinates for the border between Texas & Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico are -10814171.25258265 2993834.94189093, while the coordinates for the point of land at the mouth of the Sabine River are -10445927.791121159 3462221.2266417574. A little more fooling around and I find that the 0 point for east west is the prime meridian that runs through Greenwich, England and the 0 point for north and south is the equator.

                    However, even without that ability it is possible to get a fairly good idea of whether the place you are about to put a cache is private property or not and if it is private property who owns it. In the case under discussion it appears rather obvious, at least to me, that the location of the cache was well within the property line, provided that the map shows the correct location of the river, which it may not.

                    It would be wonderful if all counties had online maps such as this, last time I looked Travis County did not and I am pretty sure that some of the less populated counties in the area do not either. The WCAD GIS map application has undergone several revisions over the past 5 years and is now much faster and easier to use than it was in the past.

                     

                    --| Jay /\ Bing-GTX
                    |+| Georgetown , TX USA
                    |-- “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”

                     


                    From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of atxtracker
                    Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 2:24 PM
                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

                     

                     



                    --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Matt Wilson <matt@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Holy cow!! Was AJW (GC2YVT7<http://coord.info/GC2YVT7>)
                    really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far.
                    >
                    > Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near
                    places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad.
                    >
                    > Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I
                    also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?
                    >

                    Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I'm sorry for the trouble I caused the land owner.

                    Side Note: There are other maps (http://dgcoursemaps.com/CourseMaps/Print/RiveryPark.jpg) that are not so clear and show green space on the far side of the river. Ironically this map is posted on a big sign in the park itself. I am not disputing the archival, only noting that it was not intentional. There were no private property signs (at the time) or fences, and the posted map appears to be wrong.

                    Advanced notification of the archival would have been nice, but I don't feel like it is owed to me, as I am the one who made the error.

                    My main reason for posting is to let everyone know that the PowerRiddle Series is still in play, and has been updated to remove the dependence on AJW. I am working on a replacement, but it is not ready yet.

                    Happy Caching,
                    John

                  • John Grubbs
                    The City of Austin has a GIS program that is useful for checking the ownership status of a potential cache site as well. Some layers even add aerial
                    Message 10 of 13 , Dec 15, 2012
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                      The City of Austin has a GIS program that is useful for checking the ownership status of a potential cache site as well. Some layers even add aerial photography. One caveat,  the photographic images may not line up perfectly with the other GIS information so that if you are placing a cache near a particular tree or something, the GIS image may show it incorrectly in relation to the property line.

                      cheers, Anne


                      From: Jay Bingham <binghamjc@...>
                      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:40 PM
                      Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

                       
                      I have mentioned this before, but I think that it bears mentioning again.
                      The Williamson County Appraisal District (WCAD) has an online GIS map application that shows property lines relative to streets and natural features such as rivers. This application has the ability to show coordinates for where the mouse is on the map, unfortunately they are not in any geographic coordinate format that I recognize. The coordinates for the center of the intersection of FM1460 and Industrial Ave. near the WCAD office are given as -10873237.694606127 3483863.831888059, which is obviously not degrees. Using the GPS Coordinate Converter, Maps and Info web site (http://boulter.com/gps/) and clicking on approximately the same location I get 30.622821228814843 -97.67601415514946 (or 30.622821 -97.676014 with less precision, N 30 37.369 W 97 40.561 in the format that we all know and love). It would be grand to know what system they are using for their coordinates and if it can be converted into something useful to us geocachers because then you could be much more precise about public vs private property. I looked on the website and could not find any reference to what coordinate system it is. By moving the cursor around I determined that the first number is the longitude component while the second is the latitude component. The coordinates for the border between Texas & Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico are -10814171.25258265 2993834.94189093, while the coordinates for the point of land at the mouth of the Sabine River are -10445927.791121159 3462221.2266417574. A little more fooling around and I find that the 0 point for east west is the prime meridian that runs through Greenwich, England and the 0 point for north and south is the equator.
                      However, even without that ability it is possible to get a fairly good idea of whether the place you are about to put a cache is private property or not and if it is private property who owns it. In the case under discussion it appears rather obvious, at least to me, that the location of the cache was well within the property line, provided that the map shows the correct location of the river, which it may not.
                      It would be wonderful if all counties had online maps such as this, last time I looked Travis County did not and I am pretty sure that some of the less populated counties in the area do not either. The WCAD GIS map application has undergone several revisions over the past 5 years and is now much faster and easier to use than it was in the past.
                       
                      --| Jay /\ Bing-GTX
                      |+| Georgetown , TX USA
                      |-- “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”
                       

                      From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of atxtracker
                      Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 2:24 PM
                      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?
                       
                       


                      --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Matt Wilson <matt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Holy cow!! Was AJW (GC2YVT7<http://coord.info/GC2YVT7>)
                      really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far.
                      >
                      > Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near
                      places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad.
                      >
                      > Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I
                      also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?
                      >

                      Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I'm sorry for the trouble I caused the land owner.

                      Side Note: There are other maps (http://dgcoursemaps.com/CourseMaps/Print/RiveryPark.jpg) that are not so clear and show green space on the far side of the river. Ironically this map is posted on a big sign in the park itself. I am not disputing the archival, only noting that it was not intentional. There were no private property signs (at the time) or fences, and the posted map appears to be wrong.

                      Advanced notification of the archival would have been nice, but I don't feel like it is owed to me, as I am the one who made the error.

                      My main reason for posting is to let everyone know that the PowerRiddle Series is still in play, and has been updated to remove the dependence on AJW. I am working on a replacement, but it is not ready yet.

                      Happy Caching,
                      John


                    • Mary Beth Booth
                      Almost all appraisal districts in Texas use the State Plane coordinate system used by surveyors. So chances are that the WCAD maps are in State Plane Central
                      Message 11 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
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                        Almost all appraisal districts in Texas use the State Plane coordinate system used by surveyors. So chances are that the WCAD maps are in State Plane Central Texas (NAD1983) coordinate system. I'll email one of my former students who works for Wilco to make sure

                        Mary Beth
                        Emmy-n-Sapphie


                        From: John Grubbs <rockslide@...>;
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>;
                        Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?
                        Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 2:19:25 PM

                         

                        The City of Austin has a GIS program that is useful for checking the ownership status of a potential cache site as well. Some layers even add aerial photography. One caveat,  the photographic images may not line up perfectly with the other GIS information so that if you are placing a cache near a particular tree or something, the GIS image may show it incorrectly in relation to the property line.

                        cheers, Anne


                        From: Jay Bingham <binghamjc@...>
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:40 PM
                        Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

                         
                        I have mentioned this before, but I think that it bears mentioning again.
                        The Williamson County Appraisal District (WCAD) has an online GIS map application that shows property lines relative to streets and natural features such as rivers. This application has the ability to show coordinates for where the mouse is on the map, unfortunately they are not in any geographic coordinate format that I recognize. The coordinates for the center of the intersection of FM1460 and Industrial Ave. near the WCAD office are given as -10873237.694606127 3483863.831888059, which is obviously not degrees. Using the GPS Coordinate Converter, Maps and Info web site (http://boulter.com/gps/) and clicking on approximately the same location I get 30.622821228814843 -97.67601415514946 (or 30.622821 -97.676014 with less precision, N 30 37.369 W 97 40.561 in the format that we all know and love). It would be grand to know what system they are using for their coordinates and if it can be converted into something useful to us geocachers because then you could be much more precise about public vs private property. I looked on the website and could not find any reference to what coordinate system it is. By moving the cursor around I determined that the first number is the longitude component while the second is the latitude component. The coordinates for the border between Texas & Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico are -10814171.25258265 2993834.94189093, while the coordinates for the point of land at the mouth of the Sabine River are -10445927.791121159 3462221.2266417574. A little more fooling around and I find that the 0 point for east west is the prime meridian that runs through Greenwich, England and the 0 point for north and south is the equator.
                        However, even without that ability it is possible to get a fairly good idea of whether the place you are about to put a cache is private property or not and if it is private property who owns it. In the case under discussion it appears rather obvious, at least to me, that the location of the cache was well within the property line, provided that the map shows the correct location of the river, which it may not.
                        It would be wonderful if all counties had online maps such as this, last time I looked Travis County did not and I am pretty sure that some of the less populated counties in the area do not either. The WCAD GIS map application has undergone several revisions over the past 5 years and is now much faster and easier to use than it was in the past.
                         
                        --| Jay /\ Bing-GTX
                        |+| Georgetown , TX USA
                        |-- “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”
                         

                        From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of atxtracker
                        Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 2:24 PM
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?
                         
                         


                        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Matt Wilson <matt@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Holy cow!! Was AJW (GC2YVT7<http://coord.info/GC2YVT7>)
                        really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far.
                        >
                        > Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near
                        places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad.
                        >
                        > Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I
                        also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?
                        >

                        Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I'm sorry for the trouble I caused the land owner.

                        Side Note: There are other maps (http://dgcoursemaps.com/CourseMaps/Print/RiveryPark.jpg) that are not so clear and show green space on the far side of the river. Ironically this map is posted on a big sign in the park itself. I am not disputing the archival, only noting that it was not intentional. There were no private property signs (at the time) or fences, and the posted map appears to be wrong.

                        Advanced notification of the archival would have been nice, but I don't feel like it is owed to me, as I am the one who made the error.

                        My main reason for posting is to let everyone know that the PowerRiddle Series is still in play, and has been updated to remove the dependence on AJW. I am working on a replacement, but it is not ready yet.

                        Happy Caching,
                        John


                      • Anne Thayer
                        I am pretty sure you are correct, Mary Beth. Anne (totavi) Sent from my iPad ... I am pretty sure you are correct, Mary Beth. Anne (totavi) Sent from my iPad
                        Message 12 of 13 , Jan 1, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am pretty sure you are correct, Mary Beth. 

                          Anne (totavi)

                          Sent from my iPad

                          On Jan 1, 2013, at 8:57 PM, Mary Beth Booth <emmy_n_sapphie@...> wrote:

                           

                          Almost all appraisal districts in Texas use the State Plane coordinate system used by surveyors. So chances are that the WCAD maps are in State Plane Central Texas (NAD1983) coordinate system. I'll email one of my former students who works for Wilco to make sure

                          Mary Beth
                          Emmy-n-Sapphie


                          From: John Grubbs <rockslide@...>;
                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>;
                          Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?
                          Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 2:19:25 PM

                           

                          The City of Austin has a GIS program that is useful for checking the ownership status of a potential cache site as well. Some layers even add aerial photography. One caveat,  the photographic images may not line up perfectly with the other GIS information so that if you are placing a cache near a particular tree or something, the GIS image may show it incorrectly in relation to the property line.

                          cheers, Anne


                          From: Jay Bingham <binghamjc@...>
                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:40 PM
                          Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?

                           
                          I have mentioned this before, but I think that it bears mentioning again.
                          The Williamson County Appraisal District (WCAD) has an online GIS map application that shows property lines relative to streets and natural features such as rivers. This application has the ability to show coordinates for where the mouse is on the map, unfortunately they are not in any geographic coordinate format that I recognize. The coordinates for the center of the intersection of FM1460 and Industrial Ave. near the WCAD office are given as -10873237.694606127 3483863.831888059, which is obviously not degrees. Using the GPS Coordinate Converter, Maps and Info web site (http://boulter.com/gps/) and clicking on approximately the same location I get 30.622821228814843 -97.67601415514946 (or 30.622821 -97.676014 with less precision, N 30 37.369 W 97 40.561 in the format that we all know and love). It would be grand to know what system they are using for their coordinates and if it can be converted into something useful to us geocachers because then you could be much more precise about public vs private property. I looked on the website and could not find any reference to what coordinate system it is. By moving the cursor around I determined that the first number is the longitude component while the second is the latitude component. The coordinates for the border between Texas & Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico are -10814171.25258265 2993834.94189093, while the coordinates for the point of land at the mouth of the Sabine River are -10445927.791121159 3462221.2266417574. A little more fooling around and I find that the 0 point for east west is the prime meridian that runs through Greenwich, England and the 0 point for north and south is the equator.
                          However, even without that ability it is possible to get a fairly good idea of whether the place you are about to put a cache is private property or not and if it is private property who owns it. In the case under discussion it appears rather obvious, at least to me, that the location of the cache was well within the property line, provided that the map shows the correct location of the river, which it may not.
                          It would be wonderful if all counties had online maps such as this, last time I looked Travis County did not and I am pretty sure that some of the less populated counties in the area do not either. The WCAD GIS map application has undergone several revisions over the past 5 years and is now much faster and easier to use than it was in the past.
                           
                          --| Jay /\ Bing-GTX
                          |+| Georgetown , TX USA
                          |-- “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”
                           

                          From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of atxtracker
                          Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 2:24 PM
                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: AJW's Initial Cache archived!?
                           
                           


                          --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Matt Wilson <matt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Holy cow!! Was AJW (GC2YVT7<http://coord.info/GC2YVT7>) really on private property? I somehow doubt it. Sounds like last finders just "poked" around too far.
                          >
                          > Nonetheless, while I certainly agree that caches shouldn't exist near places that cause any major amount of alarm or discomfort that would bring Geocaching a bad name, this sudden and brutal Prime Reviewer archive log makes me pretty sad.
                          >
                          > Also, I vaguely remember not being able to log an archived cache, but I also know for a fact that I've logged at least a couple that were archived, but still there. Thoughts?
                          >

                          Greetings all, As the placer of the cache, I do agree that the tax records do show the cache was on private property. This is my mistake; I'm sorry for the trouble I caused the land owner.

                          Side Note: There are other maps (http://dgcoursemaps.com/CourseMaps/Print/RiveryPark.jpg) that are not so clear and show green space on the far side of the river. Ironically this map is posted on a big sign in the park itself. I am not disputing the archival, only noting that it was not intentional. There were no private property signs (at the time) or fences, and the posted map appears to be wrong.

                          Advanced notification of the archival would have been nice, but I don't feel like it is owed to me, as I am the one who made the error.

                          My main reason for posting is to let everyone know that the PowerRiddle Series is still in play, and has been updated to remove the dependence on AJW. I am working on a replacement, but it is not ready yet.

                          Happy Caching,
                          John


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