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Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program

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  • Dave Read
    If you Google the phrase draw circle google maps you will find the answer you seek. D From: Mike Detlefsen Reply-To:
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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      If you Google the phrase "draw circle google maps" you will find the answer you seek.

      D

      From: Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...>
      Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:21 PM
      To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program

       

      Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have some finds that aren't showing up.

      I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.

      Mike
      jmd65

    • Mike Detlefsen
      Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I m trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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        Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have some finds that aren't showing up.

        I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.

        Mike
        jmd65
      • Victor Engel
        Is this around a city? If so, you can get a good approximation by counting blocks. Residential neighborhoods tend to have long, skinny blocks. It s the width,
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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          Is this around a city? If so, you can get a good approximation by
          counting blocks. Residential neighborhoods tend to have long, skinny
          blocks. It's the width, not the length that you should be using for an
          estimate. This is about 1/10 mile. Ten blocks is about a mile.

          I'll check the apps I have and see if any of them have a function you
          describe (other than the accuracy circle around your current
          location).

          Victor

          On 8/30/12, Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...> wrote:
          > Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a
          > displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of
          > the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine
          > tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app
          > that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have
          > some finds that aren't showing up.
          >
          > I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I
          > don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the
          > filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.
          >
          > Mike
          > jmd65
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --

          Victor Engel
          http://victorspictures.com/blog
        • Mrs. Captain Picard
          MapSource, the mapping software that comes (used to come?) free with Garmin units, will do that! Do you have it? Select a waypoint in the center of your
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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            MapSource, the mapping software that comes (used to come?) free with Garmin units, will do that!  Do you have it?  Select a waypoint in the center of your intended circle and then have it draw a proximity circle at whatever distance from the center you want.

            You might also try ExpertGPS, a free software package that you can find on the GC website in the same place where they offer GSAK.

            Good luck!
            Julie
            Mrs. Captain Picard

            On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...> wrote:
             

            Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have some finds that aren't showing up.

            I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.

            Mike
            jmd65


          • Victor Engel
            Not sure how practical those solutions are for Android and/or iOS. But maybe I just missed something obvious. Anyway, here is a rundown of the apps I checked
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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              Not sure how practical those solutions are for Android and/or iOS. But
              maybe I just missed something obvious. Anyway, here is a rundown of
              the apps I checked out, all iOS.

              If navfree has such a function I didn't find it.
              Mytopo maps has both a built in scale and a handy ruler tool, but no
              circle draw tool that I could see.
              ViewRanger has a better built in scale but no measuring tool and no circle tool.
              Map Draw doesn't have a circle draw tool that I could see, but you can
              draw polygons with arbitrary sides, and it displays the total length
              of all sides.
              ArcGis also has a sort of polygon measuring tool.
              GPS Data doesn't even have a map, but I like it the best for finding
              coordinates.
              GPX Master is great for creating tracks but doesn't really have any
              measuring tools.
              Sensor log is completely different, and I only mention it because it
              gives a continuous readout of all parameters, GPS, magnetic compass,
              accelerometer, and gyroscope. Pretty cool, but doesn't address your
              issue.
              L4C Free is my only strictly geocaching app, and it doesn't have any
              such tools. On the other hand you can use it for your own queries and
              specify a radius there.

              Not sure if any of this was helpful. Maybe I didn't even understand
              the question.

              On 8/30/12, Dave Read <dave@...> wrote:
              > If you Google the phrase "draw circle google maps" you will find the answer
              > you seek.
              >
              > D
              >
              > From: Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...>
              > Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
              > Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:21 PM
              > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a
              > displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of
              > the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to
              > fine
              > tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app
              > that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have
              > some finds that aren't showing up.
              >
              > I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I
              > don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the
              > filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.
              >
              > Mike
              > jmd65
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --

              Victor Engel
              http://victorspictures.com/blog
            • Mike Detlefsen
              I hadn t thought of MapSource. I have it, but never looked at it much. I ll have a look, thanks. Mike jmd65
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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                I hadn't thought of MapSource. I have it, but never looked at it much. I'll have a look, thanks.

                Mike
                jmd65

                On 30 Aug 2012, at 19:59 , Mrs. Captain Picard wrote:



                MapSource, the mapping software that comes (used to come?) free with Garmin units, will do that!  Do you have it?  Select a waypoint in the center of your intended circle and then have it draw a proximity circle at whatever distance from the center you want.

                You might also try ExpertGPS, a free software package that you can find on the GC website in the same place where they offer GSAK.

                Good luck!
                Julie
                Mrs. Captain Picard

                On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...> wrote:
                 

                Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have some finds that aren't showing up.

                I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.

                Mike
                jmd65





              • Mike Detlefsen
                I spent an hour last night doing google searches, but it never occurred to me to put the term google maps in them. :-) Mike jmd65
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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                  I spent an hour last night doing google searches, but it never occurred to me to put the term 'google maps' in  them. :-)

                  Mike
                  jmd65


                  On 30 Aug 2012, at 17:47 , Dave Read wrote:



                  If you Google the phrase "draw circle google maps" you will find the answer you seek.

                  D

                  From: Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...>
                  Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:21 PM
                  To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program

                  Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have some finds that aren't showing up.

                  I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.

                  Mike
                  jmd65



                • Mike Detlefsen
                  I didn t leave a very coherent message, my bad. The reference to Android/IOS was to forestall comments about why I didn t just use the gc.com app and not have
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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                    I didn't leave a very coherent message, my bad. The reference to Android/IOS was to forestall comments about why I didn't just use the gc.com app and not have to worry about missing caches. Sometimes I explain too much. :-)

                    Mike
                    jmd65



                    On 30 Aug 2012, at 20:17 , Victor Engel wrote:

                    > Not sure how practical those solutions are for Android and/or iOS. But
                    > maybe I just missed something obvious. Anyway, here is a rundown of
                    > the apps I checked out, all iOS.
                    >
                    > If navfree has such a function I didn't find it.
                    > Mytopo maps has both a built in scale and a handy ruler tool, but no
                    > circle draw tool that I could see.
                    > ViewRanger has a better built in scale but no measuring tool and no circle tool.
                    > Map Draw doesn't have a circle draw tool that I could see, but you can
                    > draw polygons with arbitrary sides, and it displays the total length
                    > of all sides.
                    > ArcGis also has a sort of polygon measuring tool.
                    > GPS Data doesn't even have a map, but I like it the best for finding
                    > coordinates.
                    > GPX Master is great for creating tracks but doesn't really have any
                    > measuring tools.
                    > Sensor log is completely different, and I only mention it because it
                    > gives a continuous readout of all parameters, GPS, magnetic compass,
                    > accelerometer, and gyroscope. Pretty cool, but doesn't address your
                    > issue.
                    > L4C Free is my only strictly geocaching app, and it doesn't have any
                    > such tools. On the other hand you can use it for your own queries and
                    > specify a radius there.
                    >
                    > Not sure if any of this was helpful. Maybe I didn't even understand
                    > the question.
                    >
                    > On 8/30/12, Dave Read <dave@...> wrote:
                    >> If you Google the phrase "draw circle google maps" you will find the answer
                    >> you seek.
                    >>
                    >> D
                    >>
                    >> From: Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...>
                    >> Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:21 PM
                    >> To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a
                    >> displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of
                    >> the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to
                    >> fine
                    >> tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app
                    >> that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have
                    >> some finds that aren't showing up.
                    >>
                    >> I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I
                    >> don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the
                    >> filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.
                    >>
                    >> Mike
                    >> jmd65
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    > Victor Engel
                    > http://victorspictures.com/blog
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Mike Detlefsen
                    Sometimes the circle will cover multiple cities out in the boonies. My reference to apps was probably a mistake and confused the issue. I ll be using the
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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                      Sometimes the circle will cover multiple cities out in the boonies. My reference to apps was probably a mistake and confused the issue. I'll be using the program on either Mac or Windows, whichever has the best solution.

                      Mike
                      jmd65


                      On 30 Aug 2012, at 19:41 , Victor Engel wrote:

                      > Is this around a city? If so, you can get a good approximation by
                      > counting blocks. Residential neighborhoods tend to have long, skinny
                      > blocks. It's the width, not the length that you should be using for an
                      > estimate. This is about 1/10 mile. Ten blocks is about a mile.
                      >
                      > I'll check the apps I have and see if any of them have a function you
                      > describe (other than the accuracy circle around your current
                      > location).
                      >
                      > Victor
                      >
                      > On 8/30/12, Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...> wrote:
                      >> Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a
                      >> displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of
                      >> the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine
                      >> tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app
                      >> that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have
                      >> some finds that aren't showing up.
                      >>
                      >> I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I
                      >> don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the
                      >> filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.
                      >>
                      >> Mike
                      >> jmd65
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      > Victor Engel
                      > http://victorspictures.com/blog
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • jestrrrulz@aol.com
                      Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used to use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can download a demo from
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 30, 2012
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                        Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used to use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can download a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for Streets and Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.  Green icons pop up for all of the caches.  I can then search around for 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I want to target - I can head there.
                         
                        Jeri / JestrRulz
                      • Larry and Diane
                        GPS Visualizer is a very useful website, and it includes the ability to draw circles around one or more points: www.gpsvisualizer.com/calculators#coordinates
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                          GPS Visualizer is a very useful website, and it includes the ability to draw circles around one or more points: www.gpsvisualizer.com/calculators#coordinates

                          Larry/buckandi

                          --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have some finds that aren't showing up.
                          >
                          > I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.
                          >
                          > Mike
                          > jmd65
                          >
                        • Dave Read
                          It s hard to say. I don t normally go out looking for a pile of randomly-distributed caches in an area, but I m not as hard-core about the game as some. In any
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                            It's hard to say. I don't normally go out looking for a pile of randomly-distributed caches in an area, but I'm not as hard-core about the game as some.

                            In any event, it sounds like MCP was not saying that Streets and Trips will optimize the entire path through all the waypoints, just that it optimizes the path between each pair of waypoints. I think it probably assumes you entered or numbered the waypoints in the order in which you wish to traverse them.

                            D

                            From: Victor Engel <brillig@...>
                            Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Date: Friday, August 31, 2012 10:13 AM
                            To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program

                             

                            True. Is that likely? That scenario has been rare in my limited
                            geocaching experience. When I cast a net for a set of caches, they
                            generally seem roughly random in placement.

                            Victor

                            On 8/31/12, Dave Read <dave@...> wrote:
                            > It's not NP hard unless the waypoints have particularly troublesome
                            > configurations. if you're going mostly on a line from 'start' to 'finish'
                            > with a small number of excursions, it's not hard to solve optimally.
                            >
                            > D
                            >
                            > On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Victor Engel <brillig@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> That sounds like the classic traveling salesman problem,
                            >> <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem>
                            >>
                            >> It's impressive if near optimal paths can be found efficiently.
                            >>
                            >> Victor
                            >>
                            >> On 8/31/12, Mrs. Captain Picard <mrscaptainpicard@...> wrote:
                            >> > I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches. That
                            >> > program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive
                            >> > between a number of waypoints. There are some flaws, like it doesn't
                            >> > handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache,
                            >> > but
                            >> > for car caching, it really works well!
                            >> >
                            >> > Julie
                            >> > Mrs. Captain Picard
                            >> >
                            >> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:
                            >> >
                            >> >> **
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >> **
                            >> >> Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used
                            >> >> to
                            >> >> use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can
                            >> >> download
                            >> >> a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for
                            >> >> Streets
                            >> >> and
                            >> >> Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.
                            >> >> Green icons pop up for all of the caches. I can then search around for
                            >> >> 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I
                            >> >> want
                            >> >> to
                            >> >> target - I can head there.
                            >> >>
                            >> >> Jeri / JestrRulz
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >> --
                            >>
                            >> Victor Engel
                            >> http://victorspictures.com/blog
                            >>
                            >

                            --

                            Victor Engel
                            http://victorspictures.com/blog

                          • Mrs. Captain Picard
                            I ve used Streets and Trips for creating routes between caches. That program has an optimize function that tells you the best way to drive between a
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                              I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches.  That program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive between a number of waypoints.  There are some flaws, like it doesn't handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache, but for car caching, it really works well!
                               
                              Julie
                              Mrs. Captain Picard

                              On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:
                               

                              Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used to use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can download a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for Streets and Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.  Green icons pop up for all of the caches.  I can then search around for 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I want to target - I can head there.
                               
                              Jeri / JestrRulz


                            • Victor Engel
                              That sounds like the classic traveling salesman problem, It s impressive if near optimal paths
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                That sounds like the classic traveling salesman problem,
                                <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem>

                                It's impressive if near optimal paths can be found efficiently.

                                Victor

                                On 8/31/12, Mrs. Captain Picard <mrscaptainpicard@...> wrote:
                                > I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches. That
                                > program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive
                                > between a number of waypoints. There are some flaws, like it doesn't
                                > handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache, but
                                > for car caching, it really works well!
                                >
                                > Julie
                                > Mrs. Captain Picard
                                >
                                > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >> **
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> **
                                >> Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used to
                                >> use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can
                                >> download
                                >> a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for Streets
                                >> and
                                >> Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.
                                >> Green icons pop up for all of the caches. I can then search around for
                                >> 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I want
                                >> to
                                >> target - I can head there.
                                >>
                                >> Jeri / JestrRulz
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >


                                --

                                Victor Engel
                                http://victorspictures.com/blog
                              • Dave Read
                                It s not NP hard unless the waypoints have particularly troublesome configurations. if you re going mostly on a line from start to finish with a small
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                  It's not NP hard unless the waypoints have particularly troublesome  configurations. if you're going mostly on a line from 'start' to 'finish' with a small number of excursions, it's not hard to solve optimally. 

                                  D

                                  On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Victor Engel <brillig@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  That sounds like the classic traveling salesman problem,
                                  <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem>

                                  It's impressive if near optimal paths can be found efficiently.

                                  Victor

                                  On 8/31/12, Mrs. Captain Picard <mrscaptainpicard@...> wrote:
                                  > I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches. That
                                  > program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive
                                  > between a number of waypoints. There are some flaws, like it doesn't
                                  > handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache, but
                                  > for car caching, it really works well!
                                  >
                                  > Julie
                                  > Mrs. Captain Picard
                                  >
                                  > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> **
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> **
                                  >> Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used to
                                  >> use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can
                                  >> download
                                  >> a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for Streets
                                  >> and
                                  >> Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.
                                  >> Green icons pop up for all of the caches. I can then search around for
                                  >> 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I want
                                  >> to
                                  >> target - I can head there.
                                  >>
                                  >> Jeri / JestrRulz
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >

                                  --

                                  Victor Engel
                                  http://victorspictures.com/blog

                                • Victor Engel
                                  True. Is that likely? That scenario has been rare in my limited geocaching experience. When I cast a net for a set of caches, they generally seem roughly
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                    True. Is that likely? That scenario has been rare in my limited
                                    geocaching experience. When I cast a net for a set of caches, they
                                    generally seem roughly random in placement.

                                    Victor

                                    On 8/31/12, Dave Read <dave@...> wrote:
                                    > It's not NP hard unless the waypoints have particularly troublesome
                                    > configurations. if you're going mostly on a line from 'start' to 'finish'
                                    > with a small number of excursions, it's not hard to solve optimally.
                                    >
                                    > D
                                    >
                                    > On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Victor Engel <brillig@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> That sounds like the classic traveling salesman problem,
                                    >> <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem>
                                    >>
                                    >> It's impressive if near optimal paths can be found efficiently.
                                    >>
                                    >> Victor
                                    >>
                                    >> On 8/31/12, Mrs. Captain Picard <mrscaptainpicard@...> wrote:
                                    >> > I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches. That
                                    >> > program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive
                                    >> > between a number of waypoints. There are some flaws, like it doesn't
                                    >> > handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache,
                                    >> > but
                                    >> > for car caching, it really works well!
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Julie
                                    >> > Mrs. Captain Picard
                                    >> >
                                    >> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:
                                    >> >
                                    >> >> **
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> **
                                    >> >> Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used
                                    >> >> to
                                    >> >> use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can
                                    >> >> download
                                    >> >> a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for
                                    >> >> Streets
                                    >> >> and
                                    >> >> Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.
                                    >> >> Green icons pop up for all of the caches. I can then search around for
                                    >> >> 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I
                                    >> >> want
                                    >> >> to
                                    >> >> target - I can head there.
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> Jeri / JestrRulz
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    >> --
                                    >>
                                    >> Victor Engel
                                    >> http://victorspictures.com/blog
                                    >>
                                    >


                                    --

                                    Victor Engel
                                    http://victorspictures.com/blog
                                  • Victor Engel
                                    Ok. You re probably right about that. Victor ... -- Victor Engel http://victorspictures.com/blog
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Ok. You're probably right about that.

                                      Victor

                                      On 8/31/12, Dave Read <dave@...> wrote:
                                      > It's hard to say. I don't normally go out looking for a pile of
                                      > randomly-distributed caches in an area, but I'm not as hard-core about the
                                      > game as some.
                                      >
                                      > In any event, it sounds like MCP was not saying that Streets and Trips will
                                      > optimize the entire path through all the waypoints, just that it optimizes
                                      > the path between each pair of waypoints. I think it probably assumes you
                                      > entered or numbered the waypoints in the order in which you wish to
                                      > traverse
                                      > them.
                                      >
                                      > D
                                      >
                                      > From: Victor Engel <brillig@...>
                                      > Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Date: Friday, August 31, 2012 10:13 AM
                                      > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > True. Is that likely? That scenario has been rare in my limited
                                      > geocaching experience. When I cast a net for a set of caches, they
                                      > generally seem roughly random in placement.
                                      >
                                      > Victor
                                      >
                                      > On 8/31/12, Dave Read <dave@... <mailto:dave%40daveread.com> >
                                      > wrote:
                                      >> It's not NP hard unless the waypoints have particularly troublesome
                                      >> configurations. if you're going mostly on a line from 'start' to 'finish'
                                      >> with a small number of excursions, it's not hard to solve optimally.
                                      >>
                                      >> D
                                      >>
                                      >> On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Victor Engel <brillig@...
                                      > <mailto:brillig%40gmail.com> > wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>> That sounds like the classic traveling salesman problem,
                                      >>> <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> It's impressive if near optimal paths can be found efficiently.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Victor
                                      >>>
                                      >>> On 8/31/12, Mrs. Captain Picard <mrscaptainpicard@...
                                      > <mailto:mrscaptainpicard%40gmail.com> > wrote:
                                      >>> > I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches. That
                                      >>> > program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to
                                      >>> > drive
                                      >>> > between a number of waypoints. There are some flaws, like it doesn't
                                      >>> > handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache,
                                      >>> > but
                                      >>> > for car caching, it really works well!
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> > Julie
                                      >>> > Mrs. Captain Picard
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...
                                      > <mailto:jestrrrulz%40aol.com> > wrote:
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >> **
                                      >>> >>
                                      >>> >>
                                      >>> >> **
                                      >>> >> Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used
                                      >>> >> to
                                      >>> >> use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can
                                      >>> >> download
                                      >>> >> a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for
                                      >>> >> Streets
                                      >>> >> and
                                      >>> >> Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.
                                      >>> >> Green icons pop up for all of the caches. I can then search around
                                      >>> >> for
                                      >>> >> 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I
                                      >>> >> want
                                      >>> >> to
                                      >>> >> target - I can head there.
                                      >>> >>
                                      >>> >> Jeri / JestrRulz
                                      >>> >>
                                      >>> >>
                                      >>> >>
                                      >>> >
                                      >>>
                                      >>> --
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Victor Engel
                                      >>> http://victorspictures.com/blog
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      >
                                      > Victor Engel
                                      > http://victorspictures.com/blog
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      --

                                      Victor Engel
                                      http://victorspictures.com/blog
                                    • Paul Albers
                                      I use Streets and Trips as well to plan my caching routes. What I tend to do is do an arc/poly filter in GSAK first, export as GPX file, import this file into
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                        I use Streets and Trips as well to plan my caching routes. What I tend
                                        to do is do an
                                        arc/poly filter in GSAK first, export as GPX file, import this file into
                                        Streets and Trips
                                        and then tell it what the first cache is in my route and what the last
                                        one is in my route.
                                        Then, I select 'optimize'. As Julie mentioned, if the caches aren't way
                                        off the road, in
                                        parks, along hiking trails, it does a pretty good job of optimizing your
                                        route, based
                                        on which side of the road the cache is on, u-turns, one way streets,
                                        etc... I then have
                                        it give me the directions for this route.

                                        I usually walk through the route it creates and optimize it for 'real
                                        world caching'. Just
                                        because the cache is on the other side of the road, doesn't mean I can
                                        park and walk
                                        across or make a caching u-turn to get to it quickly. I then move the
                                        order and once
                                        done, tell it to create driving directions. I then export the
                                        directions, which gives me
                                        a list of waypoints in the order I want to find them. I then will either
                                        print this out or
                                        have it easily accessible on my iPhone while caching.

                                        Just an example of how I use the mentioned program.

                                        Best Regards,

                                        -paul
                                        HiDude_98

                                        Victor Engel wrote:

                                        >Ok. You're probably right about that.
                                        >
                                        >Victor
                                        >
                                      • Russ Jernigan
                                        What Streets And Trips did was optimize a trip between each of a set of points, with each specified and a beginning and end specified. You could, I guess, try
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          What Streets And Trips did was optimize a trip between each of a set of points, with each specified and a beginning and end specified.  You could, I guess, try to optimize an entire PQ but what would be the point?  Pick out the 50 to 100 that you think you could do in a day and optimize those.

                                          Russ the Waterweasel

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Dave Read
                                          Sent: Aug 31, 2012 9:09 AM
                                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program

                                           

                                          It's hard to say. I don't normally go out looking for a pile of randomly-distributed caches in an area, but I'm not as hard-core about the game as some.

                                          In any event, it sounds like MCP was not saying that Streets and Trips will optimize the entire path through all the waypoints, just that it optimizes the path between each pair of waypoints. I think it probably assumes you entered or numbered the waypoints in the order in which you wish to traverse them.

                                          D

                                          From: Victor Engel <brillig@...>
                                          Reply-To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Friday, August 31, 2012 10:13 AM
                                          To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program

                                           

                                          True. Is that likely? That scenario has been rare in my limited
                                          geocaching experience. When I cast a net for a set of caches, they
                                          generally seem roughly random in placement.

                                          Victor

                                          On 8/31/12, Dave Read <dave@...> wrote:
                                          > It's not NP hard unless the waypoints have particularly troublesome
                                          > configurations. if you're going mostly on a line from 'start' to 'finish'
                                          > with a small number of excursions, it's not hard to solve optimally.
                                          >
                                          > D
                                          >
                                          > On Aug 31, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Victor Engel <brillig@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> That sounds like the classic traveling salesman problem,
                                          >> <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem>
                                          >>
                                          >> It's impressive if near optimal paths can be found efficiently.
                                          >>
                                          >> Victor
                                          >>
                                          >> On 8/31/12, Mrs. Captain Picard <mrscaptainpicard@...> wrote:
                                          >> > I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches. That
                                          >> > program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive
                                          >> > between a number of waypoints. There are some flaws, like it doesn't
                                          >> > handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache,
                                          >> > but
                                          >> > for car caching, it really works well!
                                          >> >
                                          >> > Julie
                                          >> > Mrs. Captain Picard
                                          >> >
                                          >> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:
                                          >> >
                                          >> >> **
                                          >> >>
                                          >> >>
                                          >> >> **
                                          >> >> Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used
                                          >> >> to
                                          >> >> use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can
                                          >> >> download
                                          >> >> a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for
                                          >> >> Streets
                                          >> >> and
                                          >> >> Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.
                                          >> >> Green icons pop up for all of the caches. I can then search around for
                                          >> >> 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I
                                          >> >> want
                                          >> >> to
                                          >> >> target - I can head there.
                                          >> >>
                                          >> >> Jeri / JestrRulz
                                          >> >>
                                          >> >>
                                          >> >>
                                          >> >
                                          >>
                                          >> --
                                          >>
                                          >> Victor Engel
                                          >> http://victorspictures.com/blog
                                          >>
                                          >

                                          --

                                          Victor Engel
                                          http://victorspictures.com/blog

                                          
                                          
                                        • Indigo Parrish
                                          ... I second Julie s recommendation of Streets and Trips. I usually plan the caches (and backups) for a road trip in GSAK and then import a GPX of those
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                            --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Mrs. Captain Picard" <mrscaptainpicard@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches. That
                                            > program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive
                                            > between a number of waypoints. There are some flaws, like it doesn't
                                            > handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache, but
                                            > for car caching, it really works well!

                                            I second Julie's recommendation of Streets and Trips.

                                            I usually plan the caches (and backups) for a road trip in GSAK and then import a GPX of those waypoints into Streets and Trips. I add the intended caches to my route, press "Optimize Stops" and presto bingo -- there's my road trip optimally mapped out. Even better, if I DNF a cache in the field I can update the route with a backup cache and replan in the field. If I'm running late on available daylight and have to drop some stops I can do that, replan and make the most of my situation. This replanning and optimizing feature of MST is critical for road trips.

                                            -Keith (Indigo Parrish)
                                          • Indigo Parrish
                                            ... Agreed. In the real world, close to optimal is usually as good as absolutely provably optimal. For most (all?) NP hard problems there are polynomial
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                              --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Dave Read <dave@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > It's not NP hard unless the waypoints have particularly troublesome configurations. if you're going mostly on a line from 'start' to 'finish' with a small number of excursions, it's not hard to solve optimally.

                                              Agreed.

                                              In the real world, "close to optimal" is usually as good as "absolutely provably optimal." For most (all?) NP hard problems there are polynomial time algorithms for approximate rather than optimal solutions. That difference between optimal (exponential) vs really darn close (polynomial) is the essential tradeoff of Computer Science.

                                              Just out of curiosity, I once added the 254 caches I used for the Texas County Challenge into Streets and Trips and my house as the start and end and then chose "Optimize Stops". Nearly 30 minutes later it gave a pretty decent solution. It probably could have given an acceptible solution in 30 seconds actually that would have been at most 10% longer that what it spent the next 29m 30s computing.

                                              Check out this mind-numbing solution for all 13,509 U.S. cities with populations of more than 500 people :

                                              http://www.crpc.rice.edu/newsletters/sum98/news_tsp.html

                                              That looks like the Ultimate County Cache Run to me :)

                                              -Keith
                                            • shawnolsen@aol.com
                                              Wow that is neat, but you better get moving Keith!!! Shawn In a message dated 8/31/2012 3:06:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, indigo.parrish@gmail.com writes:
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                                Wow that is neat, but you better get moving Keith!!!
                                                 
                                                Shawn
                                                 
                                                In a message dated 8/31/2012 3:06:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, indigo.parrish@... writes:
                                                Check out this mind-numbing solution for all 13,509 U.S. cities with populations of more than 500 people :

                                                http://www.crpc.rice.edu/newsletters/sum98/news_tsp.html

                                                That looks like the Ultimate County Cache Run to me :)

                                                -Keith

                                              • jestrrrulz@aol.com
                                                Actually it optimizes the entire route. For example, say you are house hunting (for a separate example) and you want to visit 10 houses. You enter in the
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Aug 31, 2012
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                                                  Actually it optimizes the entire route.  For example, say you are house hunting (for a separate example) and you want to visit 10 houses. You enter in the addresses and the start location.  Optimize. It then tells you the best route to take. 
                                                   
                                                  Where the issue comes in with waypoints is that they all don't have "roads". So you can't optimize routes through a park.
                                                   
                                                  Jeri / JestrRulz
                                                   
                                                  In a message dated 8/31/2012 11:22:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, brillig@... writes:
                                                  > In any event, it sounds like MCP was not saying that Streets and Trips will
                                                  > optimize the entire path through all the waypoints, just that it optimizes
                                                  > the path between each pair of waypoints. I think it probably assumes you
                                                  > entered or numbered the waypoints in the order in which you wish to
                                                  > traverse
                                                • Barry
                                                  Who wants to grab a couple of mountain top virtuals with my wife and I? (And any other easy ones along the way...)  GCGQXN  (The Big House) & GC4EEF
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Sep 5, 2012
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                                                    Who wants to grab a couple of mountain top virtuals with my wife and I?
                                                    (And any other "easy" ones along the way...)
                                                     
                                                    GCGQXN  (The Big House) &
                                                    GC4EEF (Guadalupe Peak)
                                                     
                                                    Sept 16 & 17
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    Barry Watson, MSgt, USAF (Retired)
                                                     
                                                    aka Doc Geo (Geocaching) 
                                                     
                                                    aka Much, The Miller's Son (Renaissance)
                                                     
                                                    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, a burger in one hand, a beer in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

                                                    From: Mrs. Captain Picard <mrscaptainpicard@...>
                                                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 9:34 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Mapping program

                                                     
                                                    I've used Streets and Trips for creating 'routes' between caches.  That program has an "optimize" function that tells you the best way to drive between a number of waypoints.  There are some flaws, like it doesn't handle caches in parks real well because there's no road to the cache, but for car caching, it really works well!
                                                     
                                                    Julie
                                                    Mrs. Captain Picard

                                                    On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM, <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:
                                                     
                                                    Not that it is practical for all cases, but I have a software I used to use before I got a car GPS - Microsoft Streets and Trips. You can download a demo from MS. GSAK will export into a format specifically for Streets and Trips which is just a CSV format. Then import into Streets and Trips.  Green icons pop up for all of the caches.  I can then search around for 'groups' of caches or strings so that if there is a certain area I want to target - I can head there.
                                                     
                                                    Jeri / JestrRulz



                                                  • Mike Detlefsen
                                                    This works pretty nicely. I just had to make a spreadsheet of my PQs and send it to the website, and got back a Google map with nifty colored circles of all my
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Sep 6, 2012
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                                                      This works pretty nicely. I just had to make a spreadsheet of my PQs and send it to the website, and got back a Google map with nifty colored circles of all my PQs. Thanks.

                                                      Mike



                                                      On 31 Aug 2012, at 08:47 , Larry and Diane wrote:

                                                      > GPS Visualizer is a very useful website, and it includes the ability to draw circles around one or more points: www.gpsvisualizer.com/calculators#coordinates
                                                      >
                                                      > Larry/buckandi
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Mike Detlefsen <mdmeleagro945@...> wrote:
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Does anyone know of a program that will allow you to draw circles on a displayed map? I'm trying to get a visual representation of the coverage of the pocket queries I use. I'm sure there are some gaps, and I'd like to fine tune things for optimal coverage. I use both an Android app and an IOS app that have the PQs in a database that I can sort and filter by, and I have some finds that aren't showing up.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> I know I could always use the GC.com app instead of the one I like, but I don't particularly like the GC.com interface, and it doesn't have the filtering and sorting capabilities that I want.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Mike
                                                      >> jmd65
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
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