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Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

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  • Candy Lind
    ... 1600 s ... they ... take a ... have ... I would be interested in the damaged area of which you spoke, with the possibility of getting some cachers together
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 27, 2003
      --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Grajek"
      <jgrajek@a...> wrote:
      > I would like to suggest, while we are on the subject, that no more
      > caches be hid in the stone walls that are everywhere in South Austin
      > (and North Austin). Some of these walls have been here since the
      1600's
      > maybe earlier. Some are recent, within the last hundred years but
      they
      > are still taking a beating from geocaching. To be fair they also
      take a
      > beating from others. I ran across some major damage in an area I
      have
      > not been to in 15 years. Out of 150 feet of wall more than half was
      > destroyed. The stone was thrown all over the place.

      I would be interested in the damaged area of which you spoke, with
      the possibility of getting some cachers together with someone who
      knows what they are doing, and trying to repair some of the damage.
      Where is it, and do you have any idea who we could call? It breaks my
      heart that things like this happen, and I don't know that it
      necessarily might be geocachers at fault (maybe not being as discreet
      as they should have, so kids with nothing to do found some trouble to
      get in?), but I'd still like to help fix it.

      If you are talking about the wall down by "goodbye blue sky" (I think
      that's it) in the greenbelt, it was torn up long before a cache was
      placed in the rubble. It IS too bad that it was wrecked. All those
      thousands and thousands of man-hours and back-breaking labor
      destroyed. :-( I love these old walls and fences built from the land
      on which they sit.

      Happy Trails,
      Candy
    • Grajek
      It was on the Up your greenbelt challenge. Leg 1. Like I said we can t blame it all on geocachers, but being where the first leg of the cache is, the posts I
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 27, 2003
        It was on the "Up your greenbelt challenge." Leg 1. Like I said we can't
        blame it all on geocachers, but being where the first leg of the cache
        is, the posts I read where people had to go back several times to find
        it leads me to believe that we at the very least have not helped the
        situation. I had to go back to look once my self and I am sure I didn't
        replace every stone just as I found it (See last paragraph). Some of the
        other stone wall caches I have seen have had minor damage around caches
        but none like this. I agree that the "Blue sky" Cache wall was damaged
        long ago. When the 360 bridge opened up way back when, many people found
        it real easy to get over to twin falls via 360 and park on the R.O.W.
        and hike in. Much shorter than other places at the time.

        I think if we GeoCachers show others we "Clean up/Repair" sites
        regardless of the blame, we would improve our image in the community.
        Just a thought. If anyone is interested in spending a Saturday or Sunday
        morning repairing this section I can organize a time and day to do it.
        Even if its just a couple people I think it would be fun, rewarding and
        not that hard to repair. It would be a start.

        I would also like to get the full/real story on the wall. Much of what I
        know of it was told to me growing up so I never really went and
        researched it. I took it on blind faith on that the ages, builders and
        uses where points of fact.

        Also, I don't want to come off like I am laying blame on anybody weather
        it is cachers or hiders or who ever. I have done my share of damaging
        the wall when I was growing up and just spending a lot of time on the
        greenbelt. I am just as guilty as anyone so please don't take this
        thread the wrong way.


        Thanks
        Grajek

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Candy Lind [mailto:candylind@...]
        Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:38 AM
        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Grajek"
        <jgrajek@a...> wrote:
        > I would like to suggest, while we are on the subject, that no more
        > caches be hid in the stone walls that are everywhere in South Austin
        > (and North Austin). Some of these walls have been here since the
        1600's
        > maybe earlier. Some are recent, within the last hundred years but
        they
        > are still taking a beating from geocaching. To be fair they also
        take a
        > beating from others. I ran across some major damage in an area I
        have
        > not been to in 15 years. Out of 150 feet of wall more than half was
        > destroyed. The stone was thrown all over the place.

        I would be interested in the damaged area of which you spoke, with
        the possibility of getting some cachers together with someone who
        knows what they are doing, and trying to repair some of the damage.
        Where is it, and do you have any idea who we could call? It breaks my
        heart that things like this happen, and I don't know that it
        necessarily might be geocachers at fault (maybe not being as discreet
        as they should have, so kids with nothing to do found some trouble to
        get in?), but I'd still like to help fix it.

        If you are talking about the wall down by "goodbye blue sky" (I think
        that's it) in the greenbelt, it was torn up long before a cache was
        placed in the rubble. It IS too bad that it was wrecked. All those
        thousands and thousands of man-hours and back-breaking labor
        destroyed. :-( I love these old walls and fences built from the land
        on which they sit.

        Happy Trails,
        Candy





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        CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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      • Wayne Lind
        I have absolutely no problem with not hiding a cache in one of those stone walls. One, it is possible that they have some fascinating history, and two, it s
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 27, 2003
          I have absolutely no problem with not hiding a cache in one of those stone walls. One, it is possible that they have some fascinating history, and two, it's not like there isn't a zillion other places to hide a cache up there. I do feel like playing devil's advocate however. It is also possible and in fact likely that these long unbroken, unnatural rock formations have also had an impact on the environment in that area as well. You will note, that I did not say negative impact, I simply do not have enough knowledge of that area to make a competent assessment. I would be interested to see what a biologist would say about this. I am not suggesting we immediately go out there and destroy the wall, any more then I am suggesting we run out there and rebuild it. I just wanted to look at it from a slightly different angle.
           
          Wayne
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
          Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:55 PM
          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

          It was on the "Up your greenbelt challenge." Leg 1. Like I said we can't
          blame it all on geocachers, but being where the first leg of the cache
          is, the posts I read where people had to go back several times to find
          it leads me to believe that we at the very least have not helped the
          situation. I had to go back to look once my self and I am sure I didn't
          replace every stone just as I found it (See last paragraph). Some of the
          other stone wall caches I have seen have had minor damage around caches
          but none like this. I agree that the "Blue sky" Cache wall was damaged
          long ago. When the 360 bridge opened up way back when, many people found
          it real easy to get over to twin falls via 360 and park on the R.O.W.
          and hike in. Much shorter than other places at the time.

          I think if we GeoCachers show others we "Clean up/Repair" sites
          regardless of the blame, we would improve our image in the community.
          Just a thought. If anyone is interested in spending a Saturday or Sunday
          morning repairing this section I can organize a time and day to do it.
          Even if its just a couple people I think it would be fun, rewarding and
          not that hard to repair. It would be a start.

          I would also like to get the full/real story on the wall. Much of what I
          know of it was told to me growing up so I never really went and
          researched it. I took it on blind faith on that the ages, builders and
          uses where points of fact.

          Also, I don't want to come off like I am laying blame on anybody weather
          it is cachers or hiders or who ever. I have done my share of damaging
          the wall when I was growing up and just spending a lot of time on the
          greenbelt. I am just as guilty as anyone so please don't take this
          thread the wrong way.


          Thanks
          Grajek

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Candy Lind [mailto:candylind@...]
          Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:38 AM
          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

          --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Grajek"
          <jgrajek@a...> wrote:
          > I would like to suggest, while we are on the subject, that no more
          > caches be hid in the stone walls that are everywhere in South Austin
          > (and North Austin). Some of these walls have been here since the
          1600's
          > maybe earlier. Some are recent, within the last hundred years but
          they
          > are still taking a beating from geocaching. To be fair they also
          take a
          > beating from others. I ran across some major damage in an area I
          have
          > not been to in 15 years. Out of 150 feet of wall more than half was
          > destroyed. The stone was thrown all over the place.

          I would be interested in the damaged area of which you spoke, with
          the possibility of getting some cachers together with someone who
          knows what they are doing, and trying to repair some of the damage.
          Where is it, and do you have any idea who we could call? It breaks my
          heart that things like this happen, and I don't know that it
          necessarily might be geocachers at fault (maybe not being as discreet
          as they should have, so kids with nothing to do found some trouble to
          get in?), but I'd still like to help fix it.

          If you are talking about the wall down by "goodbye blue sky" (I think
          that's it) in the greenbelt, it was torn up long before a cache was
          placed in the rubble. It IS too bad that it was wrecked. All those
          thousands and thousands of man-hours and back-breaking labor
          destroyed. :-( I love these old walls and fences built from the land
          on which they sit.

          Happy Trails,
          Candy





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          CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






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        • Grajek
          I understand and agree. I hate to say something I have not researched myself but one of the stories I heard was that the walls where built for dual purpose.
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 27, 2003

            I understand and agree. I hate to say something I have not researched myself but one of the stories I heard was that the walls where built for dual purpose. One for boundaries/barriers and the other to alter the run off of big rains and little rains. I have also heard stories of who built them.  Now these are stories I have heard growing up here so who knows what the real story is. I do know this though. The walls have been there a very long time and the areas around the walls are beautiful, as I think everyone will agree (They also make great cover when your in a BB gun fight). Also, I have heard that the cedar/juniper that is everywhere was not here 300 years ago. That would lend credence to the “Alter Big Rain Runoff” theory. But, like I said this is the history that I was told when I was younger, so I might be full of it, so to speak.

             

            I am going to research this more and invite anybody who knows more to please let me/us know.

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@...]
            Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:12 PM
            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

             

            I have absolutely no problem with not hiding a cache in one of those stone walls. One, it is possible that they have some fascinating history, and two, it's not like there isn't a zillion other places to hide a cache up there. I do feel like playing devil's advocate however. It is also possible and in fact likely that these long unbroken, unnatural rock formations have also had an impact on the environment in that area as well. You will note, that I did not say negative impact, I simply do not have enough knowledge of that area to make a competent assessment. I would be interested to see what a biologist would say about this. I am not suggesting we immediately go out there and destroy the wall, any more then I am suggesting we run out there and rebuild it. I just wanted to look at it from a slightly different angle.

             

            Wayne

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
            Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:55 PM
            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

            It was on the "Up your greenbelt challenge." Leg 1. Like I said we can't
            blame it all on geocachers, but being where the first leg of the cache
            is, the posts I read where people had to go back several times to find
            it leads me to believe that we at the very least have not helped the
            situation. I had to go back to look once my self and I am sure I didn't
            replace every stone just as I found it (See last paragraph). Some of the
            other stone wall caches I have seen have had minor damage around caches
            but none like this. I agree that the "Blue sky" Cache wall was damaged
            long ago. When the 360 bridge opened up way back when, many people found
            it real easy to get over to twin falls via 360 and park on the R.O.W.
            and hike in. Much shorter than other places at the time.

            I think if we GeoCachers show others we "Clean up/Repair" sites
            regardless of the blame, we would improve our image in the community.
            Just a thought. If anyone is interested in spending a Saturday or Sunday
            morning repairing this section I can organize a time and day to do it.
            Even if its just a couple people I think it would be fun, rewarding and
            not that hard to repair. It would be a start.

            I would also like to get the full/real story on the wall. Much of what I
            know of it was told to me growing up so I never really went and
            researched it. I took it on blind faith on that the ages, builders and
            uses where points of fact.

            Also, I don't want to come off like I am laying blame on anybody weather
            it is cachers or hiders or who ever. I have done my share of damaging
            the wall when I was growing up and just spending a lot of time on the
            greenbelt. I am just as guilty as anyone so please don't take this
            thread the wrong way.


            Thanks
            Grajek

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Candy Lind [mailto:candylind@...]
            Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:38 AM
            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

            --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Grajek"
            <jgrajek@a...> wrote:
            > I would like to suggest, while we are on the subject, that no more
            > caches be hid in the stone walls that are everywhere in South Austin
            > (and North Austin). Some of these walls have been here since the
            1600's
            > maybe earlier. Some are recent, within the last hundred years but
            they
            > are still taking a beating from geocaching. To be fair they also
            take a
            > beating from others. I ran across some major damage in an area I
            have
            > not been to in 15 years. Out of 150 feet of wall more than half was
            > destroyed. The stone was thrown all over the place.

            I would be interested in the damaged area of which you spoke, with
            the possibility of getting some cachers together with someone who
            knows what they are doing, and trying to repair some of the damage.
            Where is it, and do you have any idea who we could call? It breaks my
            heart that things like this happen, and I don't know that it
            necessarily might be geocachers at fault (maybe not being as discreet
            as they should have, so kids with nothing to do found some trouble to
            get in?), but I'd still like to help fix it.

            If you are talking about the wall down by "goodbye blue sky" (I think
            that's it) in the greenbelt, it was torn up long before a cache was
            placed in the rubble. It IS too bad that it was wrecked. All those
            thousands and thousands of man-hours and back-breaking labor
            destroyed. :-( I love these old walls and fences built from the land
            on which they sit.

            Happy Trails,
            Candy





            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Mark Gessner
            I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local historian be consulted, as
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 29, 2003
              I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
              reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
              historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
              greenbelt. Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
              it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
              colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
              department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

              It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
              good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
              hand.

              First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
              about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
              this point.

              This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
              damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
              whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
              damaged to begin with.

              -mark.
              aka 'lowracer.'
            • Grajek
              http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9. html A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have researched these
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 29, 2003
                http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                html

                A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                they were built and who built them.

                I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                record in Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                greenbelt. Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                hand.

                First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                this point.

                This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                damaged to begin with.

                -mark.
                aka 'lowracer.'





                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Wayne Lind
                It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 29, 2003
                  It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a little unrealistic. It could also be that these walls came to be simply because the rocks were in the way in the fields. My dad made rockwalls very similar to this in the northern part of Maine as a child growing up on a farm. The rocks made it difficult to cultivate the land for crops, so they were picked up and dumped in long piles that over time took on the resemblence of walls.
                   
                   In any event, your point is extremely valid! If we have a fellow cacher in the group that can provide definative answers about what should and should not be done about the walls, they are encouraged to come forward and educate the rest of us. For myself, I do not know enough about this to be of any help. In light of this lack of knowledge about the walls I have no problem with not hiding caches in or near the walls. I certainly do not want to be known as a destroyer of Austins history.
                   
                  Now for the problem. Even if we all say we will not hide or look for caches in the rock walls of the greenbelt, this will not stop new cachers from placing them there. It is going to require a concerted effort on all the centex Geocachers to not hide or seek caches hidden in the walls. We will also need to inform those new folks who hide caches in the walls that they need to be moved and to not search for those caches until they have been.
                   
                  The reality of this is that it should have little or no impact on anyone's ability to hide a cache in the greenbelt. I have found places where you could hide a bus down there that are not near any walls.
                   
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:29 PM
                  To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                  http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                  html

                  A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                  researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                  they were built and who built them.

                  I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                  record in Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                  masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                  like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                  the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                  right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                  I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                  walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                  to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                  as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                  called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                  Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                  Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                  to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                  any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                  To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                  I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                  reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                  historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                  greenbelt.  Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                  it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                  colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                  department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                  It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                  good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                  hand. 

                  First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                  about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                  this point. 

                  This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                  damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                  whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                  damaged to begin with.

                  -mark.
                  aka 'lowracer.'





                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






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                  CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                • GPS Dude
                  Gee Wayne, thanks a lot for spoiling my idea of the Greenbelt Bus cache! ;-) j/k! Scott Robuck N 30° 12.4 W 97° 50.4 Trying is the first step towards
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 29, 2003

                    Gee Wayne, thanks a lot for spoiling my idea of the Greenbelt Bus cache!  ;-)

                     

                    j/k!

                    Scott Robuck
                    N 30° 12.4'
                    W 97° 50.4'

                    "Trying is the first step towards failure."

                                                  -- Homer Simpson

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@...]
                    Sent:
                    Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:10 PM
                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                     

                    It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a little unrealistic. It could also be that these walls came to be simply because the rocks were in the way in the fields. My dad made rockwalls very similar to this in the northern part of Maine as a child growing up on a farm. The rocks made it difficult to cultivate the land for crops, so they were picked up and dumped in long piles that over time took on the resemblence of walls.

                     

                     In any event, your point is extremely valid! If we have a fellow cacher in the group that can provide definative answers about what should and should not be done about the walls, they are encouraged to come forward and educate the rest of us. For myself, I do not know enough about this to be of any help. In light of this lack of knowledge about the walls I have no problem with not hiding caches in or near the walls. I certainly do not want to be known as a destroyer of Austins history.

                     

                    Now for the problem. Even if we all say we will not hide or look for caches in the rock walls of the greenbelt, this will not stop new cachers from placing them there. It is going to require a concerted effort on all the centex Geocachers to not hide or seek caches hidden in the walls. We will also need to inform those new folks who hide caches in the walls that they need to be moved and to not search for those caches until they have been.

                     

                    The reality of this is that it should have little or no impact on anyone's ability to hide a cache in the greenbelt. I have found places where you could hide a bus down there that are not near any walls.

                     

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                    Sent:
                    Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:29 PM
                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                    http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                    html

                    A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                    researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                    they were built and who built them.

                    I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                    record in
                    Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                    masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                    like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                    the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                    right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                    I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                    walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                    to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                    as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                    called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                    Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                    Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                    to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                    any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                    Sent:
                    Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                    I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                    reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                    historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                    greenbelt.  Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                    it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                    colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                    department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                    It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                    good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                    hand. 

                    First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                    about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                    this point. 

                    This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                    damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                    whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                    damaged to begin with.

                    -mark.
                    aka 'lowracer.'





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                    CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                  • Grajek
                    I agree whole heartedly. Anyone else? Maybe someone who knows more about it than me/us? ... From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@austin.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, March
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 29, 2003

                      I agree whole heartedly. Anyone else? Maybe someone who knows more about it than me/us?

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:10 PM
                      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                       

                      It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a little unrealistic. It could also be that these walls came to be simply because the rocks were in the way in the fields. My dad made rockwalls very similar to this in the northern part of Maine as a child growing up on a farm. The rocks made it difficult to cultivate the land for crops, so they were picked up and dumped in long piles that over time took on the resemblence of walls.

                       

                       In any event, your point is extremely valid! If we have a fellow cacher in the group that can provide definative answers about what should and should not be done about the walls, they are encouraged to come forward and educate the rest of us. For myself, I do not know enough about this to be of any help. In light of this lack of knowledge about the walls I have no problem with not hiding caches in or near the walls. I certainly do not want to be known as a destroyer of Austins history.

                       

                      Now for the problem. Even if we all say we will not hide or look for caches in the rock walls of the greenbelt, this will not stop new cachers from placing them there. It is going to require a concerted effort on all the centex Geocachers to not hide or seek caches hidden in the walls. We will also need to inform those new folks who hide caches in the walls that they need to be moved and to not search for those caches until they have been.

                       

                      The reality of this is that it should have little or no impact on anyone's ability to hide a cache in the greenbelt. I have found places where you could hide a bus down there that are not near any walls.

                       

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:29 PM
                      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                      http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                      html

                      A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                      researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                      they were built and who built them.

                      I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                      record in Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                      masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                      like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                      the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                      right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                      I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                      walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                      to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                      as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                      called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                      Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                      Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                      to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                      any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                      I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                      reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                      historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                      greenbelt.  Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                      it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                      colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                      department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                      It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                      good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                      hand. 

                      First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                      about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                      this point. 

                      This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                      damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                      whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                      damaged to begin with.

                      -mark.
                      aka 'lowracer.'





                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






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                    • Grajek
                      ROFL. ... From: GPS Dude [mailto:gpsdude@robuck.net] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:57 PM To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Mar 29, 2003

                        ROFL.

                         

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: GPS Dude [mailto:gpsdude@...]
                        Sent
                        :
                        Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:57 PM
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                         

                        Gee Wayne, thanks a lot for spoiling my idea of the Greenbelt Bus cache!  ;-)

                         

                        j/k!

                        Scott Robuck
                        N 30° 12.4'
                        W 97° 50.4'

                        "Trying is the first step towards failure."

                                                      -- Homer Simpson

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:10 PM
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                         

                        It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a little unrealistic. It could also be that these walls came to be simply because the rocks were in the way in the fields. My dad made rockwalls very similar to this in the northern part of Maine as a child growing up on a farm. The rocks made it difficult to cultivate the land for crops, so they were picked up and dumped in long piles that over time took on the resemblence of walls.

                         

                         In any event, your point is extremely valid! If we have a fellow cacher in the group that can provide definative answers about what should and should not be done about the walls, they are encouraged to come forward and educate the rest of us. For myself, I do not know enough about this to be of any help. In light of this lack of knowledge about the walls I have no problem with not hiding caches in or near the walls. I certainly do not want to be known as a destroyer of Austins history.

                         

                        Now for the problem. Even if we all say we will not hide or look for caches in the rock walls of the greenbelt, this will not stop new cachers from placing them there. It is going to require a concerted effort on all the centex Geocachers to not hide or seek caches hidden in the walls. We will also need to inform those new folks who hide caches in the walls that they need to be moved and to not search for those caches until they have been.

                         

                        The reality of this is that it should have little or no impact on anyone's ability to hide a cache in the greenbelt. I have found places where you could hide a bus down there that are not near any walls.

                         

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:29 PM
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                        http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                        html

                        A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                        researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                        they were built and who built them.

                        I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                        record in Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                        masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                        like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                        the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                        right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                        I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                        walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                        to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                        as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                        called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                        Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                        Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                        to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                        any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                        I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                        reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                        historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                        greenbelt.  Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                        it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                        colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                        department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                        It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                        good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                        hand. 

                        First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                        about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                        this point. 

                        This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                        damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                        whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                        damaged to begin with.

                        -mark.
                        aka 'lowracer.'





                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






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                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • Grajek
                        I also just realized I agreed with an Aggie! Oh my, I don t lose my Alumni status do I. J/K :-P ... From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@austin.rr.com] Sent:
                        Message 11 of 17 , Mar 29, 2003

                          I also just realized I agreed with an Aggie! Oh my, I don’t lose my Alumni status do I.  J/K  :-P

                           

                           

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                          Sent
                          :
                          Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:37 PM
                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                           

                          I agree whole heartedly. Anyone else? Maybe someone who knows more about it than me/us?

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@...]
                          Sent:
                          Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:10 PM
                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                           

                          It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a little unrealistic. It could also be that these walls came to be simply because the rocks were in the way in the fields. My dad made rockwalls very similar to this in the northern part of Maine as a child growing up on a farm. The rocks made it difficult to cultivate the land for crops, so they were picked up and dumped in long piles that over time took on the resemblence of walls.

                           

                           In any event, your point is extremely valid! If we have a fellow cacher in the group that can provide definative answers about what should and should not be done about the walls, they are encouraged to come forward and educate the rest of us. For myself, I do not know enough about this to be of any help. In light of this lack of knowledge about the walls I have no problem with not hiding caches in or near the walls. I certainly do not want to be known as a destroyer of Austins history.

                           

                          Now for the problem. Even if we all say we will not hide or look for caches in the rock walls of the greenbelt, this will not stop new cachers from placing them there. It is going to require a concerted effort on all the centex Geocachers to not hide or seek caches hidden in the walls. We will also need to inform those new folks who hide caches in the walls that they need to be moved and to not search for those caches until they have been.

                           

                          The reality of this is that it should have little or no impact on anyone's ability to hide a cache in the greenbelt. I have found places where you could hide a bus down there that are not near any walls.

                           

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                          Sent:
                          Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:29 PM
                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                          http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                          html

                          A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                          researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                          they were built and who built them.

                          I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                          record in
                          Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                          masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                          like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                          the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                          right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                          I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                          walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                          to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                          as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                          called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                          Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                          Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                          to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                          any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                          Sent:
                          Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                          I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                          reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                          historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                          greenbelt.  Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                          it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                          colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                          department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                          It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                          good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                          hand. 

                          First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                          about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                          this point. 

                          This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                          damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                          whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                          damaged to begin with.

                          -mark.
                          aka 'lowracer.'





                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






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                        • Wayne Lind
                          You must mean Lowracer. I went to neither so I can be neutral on this, sort of. Candy graduated from UT so I guess I am predisposed to lean a little orange.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Mar 30, 2003
                            You must mean Lowracer. I went to neither so I can be neutral on this, sort of. Candy graduated from UT so I guess I am predisposed to lean a little orange.
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                            Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:41 PM
                            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                            I also just realized I agreed with an Aggie! Oh my, I don’t lose my Alumni status do I.  J/K  :-P

                             

                             

                             

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                            Sent
                            :
                            Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:37 PM
                            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                             

                            I agree whole heartedly. Anyone else? Maybe someone who knows more about it than me/us?

                             

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@...]
                            Sent:
                            Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:10 PM
                            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                             

                            It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a little unrealistic. It could also be that these walls came to be simply because the rocks were in the way in the fields. My dad made rockwalls very similar to this in the northern part of Maine as a child growing up on a farm. The rocks made it difficult to cultivate the land for crops, so they were picked up and dumped in long piles that over time took on the resemblence of walls.

                             

                             In any event, your point is extremely valid! If we have a fellow cacher in the group that can provide definative answers about what should and should not be done about the walls, they are encouraged to come forward and educate the rest of us. For myself, I do not know enough about this to be of any help. In light of this lack of knowledge about the walls I have no problem with not hiding caches in or near the walls. I certainly do not want to be known as a destroyer of Austins history.

                             

                            Now for the problem. Even if we all say we will not hide or look for caches in the rock walls of the greenbelt, this will not stop new cachers from placing them there. It is going to require a concerted effort on all the centex Geocachers to not hide or seek caches hidden in the walls. We will also need to inform those new folks who hide caches in the walls that they need to be moved and to not search for those caches until they have been.

                             

                            The reality of this is that it should have little or no impact on anyone's ability to hide a cache in the greenbelt. I have found places where you could hide a bus down there that are not near any walls.

                             

                             

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                            Sent:
                            Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:29 PM
                            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                            http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                            html

                            A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                            researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                            they were built and who built them.

                            I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                            record in
                            Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                            masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                            like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                            the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                            right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                            I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                            walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                            to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                            as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                            called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                            Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                            Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                            to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                            any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                            Sent:
                            Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                            To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                            I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                            reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                            historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                            greenbelt.  Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                            it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                            colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                            department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                            It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                            good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                            hand. 

                            First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                            about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                            this point. 

                            This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                            damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                            whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                            damaged to begin with.

                            -mark.
                            aka 'lowracer.'





                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                          • Wayne Lind
                            Go for it dude, I m fresh out of buses. ... From: GPS Dude [mailto:gpsdude@robuck.net] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:57 PM To:
                            Message 13 of 17 , Mar 30, 2003
                              Go for it dude, I'm fresh out of buses.
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: GPS Dude [mailto:gpsdude@...]
                              Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:57 PM
                              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                              Gee Wayne, thanks a lot for spoiling my idea of the Greenbelt Bus cache!  ;-)

                               

                              j/k!

                              Scott Robuck
                              N 30° 12.4'
                              W 97° 50.4'

                              "Trying is the first step towards failure."

                                                            -- Homer Simpson

                               

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Wayne Lind [mailto:wlind@...]
                              Sent:
                              Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:10 PM
                              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                               

                              It could definately be some of the things they suggest, although the idea that a stone wall thrown together in that fashion could hold in livstock seems a little unrealistic. It could also be that these walls came to be simply because the rocks were in the way in the fields. My dad made rockwalls very similar to this in the northern part of Maine as a child growing up on a farm. The rocks made it difficult to cultivate the land for crops, so they were picked up and dumped in long piles that over time took on the resemblence of walls.

                               

                               In any event, your point is extremely valid! If we have a fellow cacher in the group that can provide definative answers about what should and should not be done about the walls, they are encouraged to come forward and educate the rest of us. For myself, I do not know enough about this to be of any help. In light of this lack of knowledge about the walls I have no problem with not hiding caches in or near the walls. I certainly do not want to be known as a destroyer of Austins history.

                               

                              Now for the problem. Even if we all say we will not hide or look for caches in the rock walls of the greenbelt, this will not stop new cachers from placing them there. It is going to require a concerted effort on all the centex Geocachers to not hide or seek caches hidden in the walls. We will also need to inform those new folks who hide caches in the walls that they need to be moved and to not search for those caches until they have been.

                               

                              The reality of this is that it should have little or no impact on anyone's ability to hide a cache in the greenbelt. I have found places where you could hide a bus down there that are not near any walls.

                               

                               

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Grajek [mailto:jgrajek@...]
                              Sent:
                              Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:29 PM
                              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Austin Stone Walls

                              http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2001-01-26/xtra_feature9.
                              html

                              A little bit of history anyway. As you can see people who have
                              researched these walls cannot agree on what they where used for. When
                              they were built and who built them.

                              I really do not want to get the so called experts involved (Their track
                              record in
                              Austin really, really sucks). I would agree if we go out en
                              masse to repair large sections of the walls, we should consult someone
                              like that. I would rather like to leave it at "Let's not hide caches in
                              the wall any more." I think that would get the most and best results
                              right now. Of course I am just one person with an opinion so....

                              I am not sure how get a consensus on not hiding anymore caches in the
                              walls as I am new to this group. Is there a way to petition the site not
                              to post caches hidden in these walls? Does anyone else feel as strongly
                              as I do about this (I tend to get a little more passionate than is
                              called for sometimes.)? Should we just drop the issue and move on?
                              Should Grajek just shut the heck up and geocache?

                              Anyway that is my two cents worth. Not like I am going to chain myself
                              to the capital until something is done, I probably will not even lose
                              any sleep over it. Maybe this thread is enough.





                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Mark Gessner [mailto:mgessner@...]
                              Sent:
                              Saturday, March 29, 2003 12:01 PM
                              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Alright, I'll admit it....

                              I would respectfully suggest before anyone goes out en masse to
                              reconstruct these walls, that a competent archaeologist or local
                              historian be consulted, as well as the land manager in charge of the
                              greenbelt.  Now, we have a fairly passable university here in town,
                              it's not the best of course, for that would be the more "Maroon"
                              colored university east of here, but they should have a local history
                              department or archaeology department we could consult. :-)

                              It is possible from an archaeological standpoint to do more harm than
                              good by reconstructing archaeological ruins without an expert on
                              hand. 

                              First call should be to the land manager, who probably knows more
                              about the history and importance of the walls than anyone else at
                              this point. 

                              This may not end up looking too good for the geocaching hobby if
                              damaged archaeological ruins appear to be the result of geocaching,
                              whether or not the cache was placed in an area that was already
                              damaged to begin with.

                              -mark.
                              aka 'lowracer.'





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