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The archiving of the ET Highway

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  • Esther Lopez
    It is a sad, sad, day!  :(                                        
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 1 3:06 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      It is a sad, sad, day!  :(
                                        '    
                                        '  - those are tears!
       
      Esther/BGTx


      From: "jimbrowng@..." <jimbrowng@...>
      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, March 1, 2011 4:55:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Going to get up on a Soap Box

       

      CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
      CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
      CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
      CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
       
      Well Said......
      JimBrownG, Dallas
       
      In a message dated 3/1/2011 4:46:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, gumbietygress@... writes:
       

      You've heard me say, over and over, that we are ALL ambassadors of our sport.
      Every single one of us has to put a friendly and law abiding face on the game -- especially for the non-cachers we interact with.
       
      I read a log from one of the cerango series caches where a local told Glen and Iris that some cachers had gotten "smart with him" at 3 a.m. when he inquired what the heck they were up to.
      Now, it's likely both sides made that o-dark-thirty meeting into an argument... I wasn't there. But someone getting smart with me at 3 a.m. isn't going to endear me to your sport. I do believe Glenn & Iris smoothed those ruffled feathers.
       
      The Head Alien series out in Nevada specifically requests that you walk the 'head. But many people drive it. So many, we were able to follow tracks in the dark (ok, nearly full moon) to each of the 51 caches back in October. On the one hand, "it's just desert" (t hough there is no 'just' about that ecosystem), on the other, the land being defaced doesn't belong to us, AND, several of the caches have been destroyed by people running over them. Yes.
       
      Anyway, while I'm in the Silver State. Many of you know about the ET series of over 1000 caches out in Nevada.
      Apparently some cachers had been practicing unsafe caching -- pulling out in front of trucks, not pulling completely off the road, and, according to one of the Cache Owners (who WERE negotiating a safe solution to NDoT's issues) "the final straw was a close call with a cacher and a snow plow." [I'm sure no favors were done by people replacing the caches as quickly as NDot was taking them down, either -- if I were NDoT, this would be 'blowing me off' on my own turf. Compromise is two-way.] Anyway, when push came to shove, Nevada DOT actually filed a law suit through the NV General Atty's office to have the run deactivated. No, let' s work something out, but Court. The series is ARCHIVED.
       
      Never mind that we were GREAT for local businesses. Never mind a lot of people are out a lot of $$ from booked travel plans -- though, yes, there are other caches in Nevada.
      Never mind that 90% of the folks coming through were law abiding and even had the blessings of local law enforcement.
       
      What is troublesome -- and yet to be determined -- is how the short-thinking actions of a few may affect roadside caching throughout Nevada's highway system. And if it goes down against GC there, you know it won't stop there.
      But that's speculation. The archiving may be the end of it. Though it doesn't help to have NDoT feeling antagonistic toward geocaching.
       
      The thing is, the actions of a few cachers who got carried away from safe roadside sense has wrecked, at the very least, the series for everyone.
      We should be reminded that we are ALL responsible.
       
      Cache placement should take into consideration access (How many caches have you hopped out to get on a blind curve? I've passed on placing caches in more than one GREAT spot because there's no safe place to pull off. It may be quiet at 2 am, most cachers will be by during high-traffic of midday. Telling cachers to be muggle savvy but putting it in plain sight of a business' security cameras and/or access... um. Well.), locals, and what unintented consequenses (casual trails, enthusiastic cachers taking GZ apart (I've seen historical rock walls get trashed)), permission (for example, many parks and national forests require specific permits; if a park has signage, "Stay on Trail," placing the cache 40 feet off the trail is, well, rude at the least, and asking to get people, and caching in general in a world of trouble)... Warnings can be placed on cache pages -- but all most folk s have are a GC number and coordinates. So don't rely on them reading it. [Heck, most don't read 'em EVER. On the Sunburned Zebra I cache page we discuss the fact that the barriers are trashed -- but 9 of 10 logs mention the fact as if we didn't know. Someone even posted a maintenance log, though there it is, in writing: cache is still there. Makes a cache owner wonder why they write a cache page... but I digress.]
       
      And CACHERS need to take the same care: following safe road behavior, not tossing GZ, being kind to the locals (as much fun as it is to play super spy, with adults, an honest answer of what we're up to will get the best response -- being sneaky just makes people defensive), being kind to ground zeros...
       
      We're all sinners. Me, too.
       
      But being geocachers does not give us any special rights of access. And we'll have all our rights stripped if we abuse them.
       
      It's up to every one of us to play nice, to be on guest behavior, and not to spook or piss off our hosts, the locals and local authorities who we share the space with.
      Anyway. Rant over.
       
      Be SAFE out there -- and courteous, too.
       
      BarbJ "the ET trail thing makes me really sad" Tygress


      ____________________________________________________________
      $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
      Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
      Channel11NewsReport.com


    • Jay Bingham
      I had no plans to and I am not sure that I ever would have gone for it, but now I know I never will. Sad indeed. +-+ Jay - BingOGT ... +-+ What you see
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 1 6:08 PM
      • 0 Attachment

        I had no plans to and I am not sure that I ever would have gone for it, but now I know I never will. Sad indeed.

         


        +-+ Jay - BingOGT
        |+| Georgetown , TX USA
        +-+ “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”

         


        From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Esther Lopez
        Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 5:06 PM
        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] The archiving of the ET Highway

         

         

        It is a sad, sad, day!  :(

                                          '    

                                          '  - those are tears!

         

        Esther/BGTx

         


        From: "jimbrowng@..." <jimbrowng@...>
        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, March 1, 2011 4:55:03 PM
        Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Going to get up on a Soap Box

         

        CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......

        CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......

        CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......

        CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......

         

        Well Said......

        JimBrownG, Dallas

         

        In a message dated 3/1/2011 4:46:31 P.M. Central Standard Time, gumbietygress@... writes:

         

        You've heard me say, over and over, that we are ALL ambassadors of our sport.

        Every single one of us has to put a friendly and law abiding face on the game -- especially for the non-cachers we interact with.

         

        I read a log from one of the cerango series caches where a local told Glen and Iris that some cachers had gotten "smart with him" at 3 a.m. when he inquired what the heck they were up to.

        Now, it's likely both sides made that o-dark-thirty meeting into an argument... I wasn't there. But someone getting smart with me at 3 a.m. isn't going to endear me to your sport. I do believe Glenn & Iris smoothed those ruffled feathers.

         

        The Head Alien series out in Nevada specifically requests that you walk the 'head. But many people drive it. So many, we were able to follow tracks in the dark (ok, nearly full moon) to each of the 51 caches back in October. On the one hand, "it's just desert" (t hough there is no 'just' about that ecosystem), on the other, the land being defaced doesn't belong to us, AND, several of the caches have been destroyed by people running over them. Yes.

         

        Anyway, while I'm in the Silver State . Many of you know about the ET series of over 1000 caches out in Nevada .

        Apparently some cachers had been practicing unsafe caching -- pulling out in front of trucks, not pulling completely off the road, and, according to one of the Cache Owners (who WERE negotiating a safe solution to NDoT's issues) "the final straw was a close call with a cacher and a snow plow." [I'm sure no favors were done by people replacing the caches as quickly as NDot was taking them down, either -- if I were NDoT, this would be 'blowing me off' on my own turf. Compromise is two-way.] Anyway, when push came to shove, Nevada DOT actually filed a law suit through the NV General Atty's office to have the run deactivated. No, let' s work something out, but Court. The series is ARCHIVED.

         

        Never mind that we were GREAT for local businesses. Never mind a lot of people are out a lot of $$ from booked travel plans -- though, yes, there are other caches in Nevada .

        Never mind that 90% of the folks coming through were law abiding and even had the blessings of local law enforcement.

         

        What is troublesome -- and yet to be determined -- is how the short-thinking actions of a few may affect roadside caching throughout Nevada 's highway system. And if it goes down against GC there, you know it won't stop there.

        But that's speculation. The archiving may be the end of it. Though it doesn't help to have NDoT feeling antagonistic toward geocaching.

         

        The thing is, the actions of a few cachers who got carried away from safe roadside sense has wrecked, at the very least, the series for everyone.

        We should be reminded that we are ALL responsible.

         

        Cache placement should take into consideration access (How many caches have you hopped out to get on a blind curve? I've passed on placing caches in more than one GREAT spot because there's no safe place to pull off. It may be quiet at 2 am, most cachers will be by during high-traffic of midday. Telling cachers to be muggle savvy but putting it in plain sight of a business' security cameras and/or access... um. Well.), locals, and what unintented consequenses (casual trails, enthusiastic cachers taking GZ apart (I've seen historical rock walls get trashed)), permission (for example, many parks and national forests require specific permits; if a park has signage, "Stay on Trail," placing the cache 40 feet off the trail is, well, rude at the least, and asking to get people, and caching in general in a world of trouble)... Warnings can be placed on cache pages -- but all most folk s have are a GC number and coordinates. So don't rely on them reading it. [Heck, most don't read 'em EVER. On the Sunburned Zebra I cache page we discuss the fact that the barriers are trashed -- but 9 of 10 logs mention the fact as if we didn't know. Someone even posted a maintenance log, though there it is, in writing: cache is still there. Makes a cache owner wonder why they write a cache page... but I digress.]

         

        And CACHERS need to take the same care: following safe road behavior, not tossing GZ, being kind to the locals (as much fun as it is to play super spy, with adults, an honest answer of what we're up to will get the best response -- being sneaky just makes people defensive), being kind to ground zeros...

         

        We're all sinners. Me, too.

         

        But being geocachers does not give us any special rights of access. And we'll have all our rights stripped if we abuse them.

         

        It's up to every one of us to play nice, to be on guest behavior, and not to spook or piss off our hosts, the locals and local authorities who we share the space with.

        Anyway. Rant over.

         

        Be SAFE out there -- and courteous, too.

         

        BarbJ "the ET trail thing makes me really sad" Tygress



        ____________________________________________________________
        $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
        Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
        Channel11NewsReport.com

         

      • rrohlf_2000
        Hear hear, Tygress. I recently came across a cache in Lago Vista that was near a stone wall. Some cacher had actually disassembled a part of the wall looking
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 2 7:53 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hear hear, Tygress.

          I recently came across a cache in Lago Vista that was near a stone wall. Some cacher had actually disassembled a part of the wall looking for the cache, which was sitting there in plain sight.

          After looking for the cache for a couple minutes (and trying to repair the wall), the owner of the local business came out and offered to show me the cache if I would only refrain from dismantling the retaining wall.

          Common sense needs to be reinforced, both in hunting for caches AND in placing them.

          Thanks for bringing this topic some much-needed visibility.

          Rick
          RickandWyatt

          --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, jimbrowng@... wrote:
          >
          > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
          > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
          >
          >
          > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
          > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
          >
          > Well Said......
          > JimBrownG, Dallas
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 3/1/2011 4:46:31 P.M. Central Standard Time,
          > gumbietygress@... writes:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > You've heard me say, over and over, that we are ALL ambassadors of our
          > sport.
          > Every single one of us has to put a friendly and law abiding face on the
          > game -- especially for the non-cachers we interact with.

          (snip)
        • Marylin Butorac
          Had the same experience in Mesquite (near Dallas). Didn t even look for the cache as I was distressed by how many people had obviously taken stones out of a
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 2 8:27 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Had the same experience in Mesquite (near Dallas).  Didn't even look for the cache as I was distressed by how many people had obviously taken stones out of a retaining wall and put them back in a very haphazard manner.


            Marylin 
            "Some looked at Goliath and thought he was too big to hit.  David looked at him and thought he was too big to miss."



            On Mar 2, 2011, at 9:53 PM, rrohlf_2000 wrote:

             

            Hear hear, Tygress.

            I recently came across a cache in Lago Vista that was near a stone wall. Some cacher had actually disassembled a part of the wall looking for the cache, which was sitting there in plain sight.

            After looking for the cache for a couple minutes (and trying to repair the wall), the owner of the local business came out and offered to show me the cache if I would only refrain from dismantling the retaining wall.

            Common sense needs to be reinforced, both in hunting for caches AND in placing them.

            Thanks for bringing this topic some much-needed visibility.

            Rick
            RickandWyatt

            --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, jimbrowng@... wrote:
            >
            > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
            > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
            >
            >
            > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
            > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
            >
            > Well Said......
            > JimBrownG, Dallas
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 3/1/2011 4:46:31 P.M. Central Standard Time,
            > gumbietygress@... writes:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > You've heard me say, over and over, that we are ALL ambassadors of our
            > sport.
            > Every single one of us has to put a friendly and law abiding face on the
            > game -- especially for the non-cachers we interact with.

            (snip)


          • Jay Bingham
            It is distressing that there are cachers who act like the proverbial Bull in a China Shop. I have seen it in the few caches that I have put out, where I
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 3 12:53 PM
            • 0 Attachment

              It is distressing that there are cachers who act like the proverbial Bull in a China Shop. I have seen it in the few caches that I have put out, where I constructed some decoy hiding spots. When I checked on the cache after a few finds I saw that my decoys had been deconstructed in the hunt and not restored. Granted this is no where as offensive as people dismantling a retaining wall in search of a cache. But I think that the same mind set is the base cause in either case. The result in one case is that it cheapens the experience for the next person to search for the cache (something that cachers can probably handle), in the other case it casts geocaching in a bad light and might even be the cause our game to be banned.

               

              So, here here to Tygress for voicing the concern, may we all pay more attention to our own actions and be careful to leave caches and their hiding spots in pristine condition.


              +-+ Jay - BingOGT
              |+| Georgetown , TX USA
              +-+ “What you see depends mainly on what you are looking for.”

               


              From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marylin Butorac
              Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 10:27 PM
              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Going to get up on a Soap Box

               

               

              Had the same experience in Mesquite (near Dallas ).  Didn't even look for the cache as I was distressed by how many people had obviously taken stones out of a retaining wall and put them back in a very haphazard manner.

               

               

              Marylin 

              "Some looked at Goliath and thought he was too big to hit.  David looked at him and thought he was too big to miss."

               



               

              On Mar 2, 2011, at 9:53 PM, rrohlf_2000 wrote:



               

              Hear hear, Tygress.

              I recently came across a cache in Lago Vista that was near a stone wall. Some cacher had actually disassembled a part of the wall looking for the cache, which was sitting there in plain sight.

              After looking for the cache for a couple minutes (and trying to repair the wall), the owner of the local business came out and offered to show me the cache if I would only refrain from dismantling the retaining wall.

              Common sense needs to be reinforced, both in hunting for caches AND in placing them.

              Thanks for bringing this topic some much-needed visibility.

              Rick
              RickandWyatt

              --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, jimbrowng@... wrote:

              >
              > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
              > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
              >
              >
              > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
              > CLAP...CLAP......CLAP.....CLAP......
              >
              > Well Said......
              > JimBrownG, Dallas
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 3/1/2011 4:46:31 P.M. Central Standard Time,
              > gumbietygress@... writes:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > You've heard me say, over and over, that we are ALL ambassadors of our
              > sport.
              > Every single one of us has to put a friendly and law abiding face on the
              > game -- especially for the non-cachers we interact with.

              (snip)

               

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