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Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

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  • Mike Detlefsen
    I think it shows concern for the safety of those coming to the park. I d certainly take it off my to-do list, as I have no interest in meeting snakes (we have
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 8 2:13 PM
      I think it shows concern for the safety of those coming to the park. I'd
      certainly take it off my to-do list, as I have no interest in meeting
      snakes (we have so little in common).

      Mike



      Penny wrote:
      >
      >
      > What do you guys think about this email I received?
      >
      > Penny
      > Cpnowak
      >
      >
      > Begin forwarded message:
      >
      >> *From:* Geocaching <noreply@...
      >> <mailto:noreply@...>>
      >> *Date:* April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
      >> *To:* nowak@... <mailto:nowak@...>
      >> *Subject:* *[GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from
      >> Geocaching.com <http://Geocaching.com>*
      >> *Reply-To:* derin.depalermo@...
      >> <mailto:derin.depalermo@...>
      >>
      >> To whom it may concern,
      >>
      >> I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
      >> you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from
      >> Geocaching.com <http://Geocaching.com> as to the folks who are
      >> visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime. Due to its diverse
      >> habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including
      >> the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber
      >> Rattlesnake. The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is
      >> arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes. Although
      >> this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend
      >> this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the
      >> risk of snake bites. More and more people are going after this
      >> geocache which is becoming a concern. Texas State Parks certainly
      >> supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this
      >> particular cachefrom Geocaching.com <http://Geocaching.com>. Please
      >> respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
      >>
      >> Sincerely,
      >>
      >> Derin DePalermo
      >> Assistant Park Superintendent
      >> derin.depalermo@...
      >> <mailto:derin.depalermo@...>
      >>
      >> User's Profile:
      >> http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------------------------------
      >> Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...
      >> <mailto:contact@...>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
    • Victor Engel
      In my opinion, anyone who wants to traipse around in the woods can decide for themselves how safe things are. I wouldn t hesitate for a moment going there
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 8 2:15 PM
        In my opinion, anyone who wants to traipse around in the woods can decide for themselves how safe things are. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment going there myself. Have I encountered my share of snakes? You bet! I love it.

        Victor

        On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:


        What do you guys think about this email I received?

        Penny
        Cpnowak


        Begin forwarded message:

        From: Geocaching <noreply@...>
        Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
        To: nowak@...
        Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
        Reply-To: derin.depalermo@...

        To whom it may concern,

        I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

        Sincerely,

        Derin DePalermo
        Assistant Park Superintendent
        derin.depalermo@...

        User's Profile:
        http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954

        ------------------------------------------------------------
        Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...




      • bananapoo@stxga.com
        I would say that geocachers understand the risk when hunting for geocaches, but at the point, if you know the place is dangerous beyonds the means intended, I
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 8 2:25 PM
          I would say that geocachers understand the risk when hunting for geocaches, but at the point, if you know the place is dangerous beyonds the means intended, I would relocate or disable the cache. Sure it adds to the challenge, but again, if your cache is intended for nite time, that's not exactly the best time to encounter a snake.

          I would honor what the state park is asking. Remember, that we geocachers represent what the sport is about and what kind of people we are. Something like this can affect all of our images, if not handled properly.

          And besides, they are asking nicely. If they wanted, it is their park, and they can contact groundspeak directly for its archival. I am so glad they are not doing so, but they could.

          Matthew
          Bananapoo

          Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


          From: Victor Engel <brillig@...>
          Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:15:34 -0500
          To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

           

          In my opinion, anyone who wants to traipse around in the woods can decide for themselves how safe things are. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment going there myself. Have I encountered my share of snakes? You bet! I love it.

          Victor

          On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:


          What do you guys think about this email I received?

          Penny
          Cpnowak


          Begin forwarded message:

          From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
          Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
          To: nowak@...
          Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
          Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

          To whom it may concern,

          I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

          Sincerely,

          Derin DePalermo
          Assistant Park Superintendent
          derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

          User's Profile:
          http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
          Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com




        • Richard and Natalie
          We would respect the request from TPWD to remove. We really appreciate the TPWD for allowing us to hide and find many caches in the parks. So it is wise to
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 8 2:44 PM
            We would respect the request from TPWD to remove. We really appreciate the TPWD for allowing us to hide and find many caches in the parks. So it is wise to work with TPWD. Ask them for suggesting for better and safe location for night caching.

            Richard and Natalie
            Deafdillos

            --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
            >
            > What do you guys think about this email I received?
            >
            > Penny
            > Cpnowak
            >
            >
            > Begin forwarded message:
            >
            > > From: Geocaching <noreply@...>
            > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
            > > To: nowak@...
            > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
            > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@...
            > >
            >
            > > To whom it may concern,
            > >
            > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
            > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
            > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
            > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
            > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
            > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
            > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
            > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
            > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
            > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
            > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
            > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
            > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
            > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
            > >
            > > Sincerely,
            > >
            > > Derin DePalermo
            > > Assistant Park Superintendent
            > > derin.depalermo@...
            > >
            > > User's Profile:
            > > http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------
            > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...
            > >
            >
          • gumbietygress@juno.com
            I agree with my fruity friend.... true, Victor, the savvy geocacher (mostly) understands and accepts the risks, but there are a LOT of folks joining this very
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 8 2:45 PM

              I agree with my fruity  friend.... true, Victor, the savvy geocacher (mostly) understands and accepts the risks, but there are a LOT of folks joining this very public sport who cache with children and, themselves, have less 'wildlife safety' sensibility. Perhaps a compromise of moving the cache to a less slithery location. Surely don't want to put my hand around a cottonmouth instead of a bit of uwp. Especially in the dark.

              Also, the park asked nicely.... and that's worth considering. They are, after all, the people who have to deal with the outfall of the snakebit foolhardy.

              In this case, I would advise compromise as possible.

              BarbJ/Tygress

              ---------- Original Message ----------
              From: bananapoo@...
              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
              Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:25:36 +0000

              I would say that geocachers understand the risk when hunting for geocaches, but at the point, if you know the place is dangerous beyonds the means intended, I would relocate or disable the cache. Sure it adds to the challenge, but again, if your cache is intended for nite time, that's not exactly the best time to encounter a snake.

              I would honor what the state park is asking. Remember, that we geocachers represent what the sport is about and what kind of people we are. Something like this can affect all of our images, if not handled properly.

              And besides, they are asking nicely. If they wanted, it is their park, and they can contact groundspeak directly for its archival. I am so glad they are not doing so, but they could.

              Matthew
              Bananapoo

              Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


              From: Victor Engel <brillig@...>
              Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:15:34 -0500
              To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

               

              In my opinion, anyone who wants to traipse around in the woods can decide for themselves how safe things are. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment going there myself. Have I encountered my share of snakes? You bet! I love it.

              Victor

              On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:


              What do you guys think about this email I received?

              Penny
              Cpnowak


              Begin forwarded message:

              From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
              Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
              To: nowak@...
              Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
              Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

              To whom it may concern,

              I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

              Sincerely,

              Derin DePalermo
              Assistant Park Superintendent
              derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

              User's Profile:
              http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
              Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com






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            • gumbietygress@juno.com
              SPLURT!!! BarbJ/Tygress ... From: Mike Detlefsen To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO]
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 8 2:46 PM

                SPLURT!!!

                BarbJ/Tygress

                ---------- Original Message ----------
                From: Mike Detlefsen <detmik64@...>
                To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:13:47 -0500

                I think it shows concern for the safety of those coming to the park. I'd
                certainly take it off my to-do list, as I have no interest in meeting
                snakes (we have so little in common).

                Mike



                Penny wrote:

                >
                >
                > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                >
                > Penny
                > Cpnowak
                >
                >
                > Begin forwarded message:
                >
                >> *From:* Geocaching <noreply@...
                >> <mailto:noreply@...>>
                >> *Date:* April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                >> *To:* nowak@... <mailto:nowak@...>
                >> *Subject:* *[GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from
                >> Geocaching.com <http://Geocaching.com>*
                >> *Reply-To:* derin.depalermo@...
                >> <mailto:derin.depalermo@...>
                >>
                >> To whom it may concern,
                >>
                >> I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                >> you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from
                >> Geocaching.com <http://Geocaching.com> as to the folks who are
                >> visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse
                >> habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including
                >> the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber
                >> Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is
                >> arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although
                >> this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend
                >> this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the
                >> risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this
                >> geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly
                >> supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this
                >> particular cachefrom Geocaching.com <http://Geocaching.com>.  Please
                >> respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.
                >>
                >> Sincerely,
                >>
                >> Derin DePalermo
                >> Assistant Park Superintendent
                >> derin.depalermo@...
                >> <mailto:derin.depalermo@...>
                >>
                >> User's Profile:
                >> http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------------------------------
                >> Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...
                >> <mailto:contact@...>
                >>
                >
                >
                >



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              • Dani
                Please don t do it! I have this on my list of ones I really want to do! Wouldn t a warning suffice? Other caches have such warnings on them and then it becomes
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 8 2:54 PM
                  Please don't do it! I have this on my list of ones I really want to do! Wouldn't a warning suffice? Other caches have such warnings on them and then it becomes my choice if I want to get it or not.

                  Dani
                  Whit228



                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Apr 8, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:

                   

                  What do you guys think about this email I received?

                  Penny
                  Cpnowak


                  Begin forwarded message:

                  From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                  Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                  To: nowak@...
                  Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                  Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state.tx.us

                  To whom it may concern,

                  I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                  Sincerely,

                  Derin DePalermo
                  Assistant Park Superintendent
                  derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state.tx.us

                  User's Profile:
                  http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
                  Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com

                • Kay Barfield
                  Yesterday, falling in two creek (three showers later)countering 11 deer, 3 snakes, 5 bunnies, 5 squirrels, 1 dog, and 1 coyotes(something like that). The
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 8 3:11 PM
                    Yesterday, falling in two creek (three showers later)countering 11 deer, 3 snakes, 5 bunnies, 5 squirrels, 1 dog, and 1 coyotes(something like that).  The worst thing I encountered was a tick. We all know the hazard in geocaching and take the safety upon ourselves. The park is a courtesy in our favor to allow caches. Their request for the cache being move elsewhere is simple one. Have you asked the park people where you relocate the cache where it can be available to everyone.
                     


                     AXX/Kay

                    arked dianglelly in parrallel universes. 
                     

                     
                     




                     

                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                    From: nowak@...
                    Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:10:28 -0500
                    Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

                     
                    What do you guys think about this email I received?

                    Penny
                    Cpnowak


                    Begin forwarded message:

                    From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                    Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                    To: nowak@...
                    Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                    Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                    To whom it may concern,

                    I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                    Sincerely,

                    Derin DePalermo
                    Assistant Park Superintendent
                    derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                    User's Profile:
                    http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
                    Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com




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                  • wlind@austin.rr.com
                    While ultimately we have to accept the final decision of the park staff in a case like this, you may want to point out that we as geocachers are acutely aware
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 8 4:26 PM
                      While ultimately we have to accept the final decision of the park staff in a case like this, you may want to point out that we as geocachers are acutely aware of the dangers involved in geocaching. Anyone who enters that area, geocachers or not, are subject to the same level of risk. You may want to add the poisonous snake attribute to the cache page (if not already there) and then point this out to them that you have alerted cachers to the danger. If they still want it removed, you should agree to their wishes however.

                      Mi dos centavos.

                      ---- Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                      > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                      >
                      > Penny
                      > Cpnowak
                      >
                      >
                      > Begin forwarded message:
                      >
                      > > From: Geocaching <noreply@...>
                      > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                      > > To: nowak@...
                      > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                      > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@...
                      > >
                      >
                      > > To whom it may concern,
                      > >
                      > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                      > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
                      > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
                      > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
                      > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
                      > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
                      > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
                      > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
                      > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
                      > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
                      > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
                      > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
                      > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
                      > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
                      > >
                      > > Sincerely,
                      > >
                      > > Derin DePalermo
                      > > Assistant Park Superintendent
                      > > derin.depalermo@...
                      > >
                      > > User's Profile:
                      > > http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...
                      > >
                    • Esther Lopez
                      I was at Palmetto SP last spring and did this cache in the late gloom of the day. It was spooky with all the Turkey and Black vultures roosting nearby (they
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 8 4:47 PM
                        I was at Palmetto SP last spring and did this cache in the late gloom of the day. It was spooky with all the Turkey and Black vultures roosting nearby (they looked expectant!) but I saw no snakes either then or during the day.
                         
                        The Superintendent told us about the time that he was bitten by a poisonous snake in his own backyard. Lucky for him it was only a glancing blow.
                         
                        I must admit that the other cache (Look Above and Below) here gave me more concern than this one did for snakes since you have to climb up and down a rocky area.
                         
                        Bottom line, if it was my cache, I would relocate.
                         
                        Good luck and thanks for a fun (and luckily for me, uneventful) find.
                         
                        Beget


                        --- On Thu, 4/8/10, wlind@... <wlind@...> wrote:

                        From: wlind@... <wlind@...>
                        Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                        To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc: "Penny" <nowak@...>
                        Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 6:26 PM

                         
                        While ultimately we have to accept the final decision of the park staff in a case like this, you may want to point out that we as geocachers are acutely aware of the dangers involved in geocaching. Anyone who enters that area, geocachers or not, are subject to the same level of risk. You may want to add the poisonous snake attribute to the cache page (if not already there) and then point this out to them that you have alerted cachers to the danger. If they still want it removed, you should agree to their wishes however.

                        Mi dos centavos.

                        ---- Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                        > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                        >
                        > Penny
                        > Cpnowak
                        >
                        >
                        > Begin forwarded message:
                        >
                        > > From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                        > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                        > > To: nowak@...
                        > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                        > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us
                        > >
                        >
                        > > To whom it may concern,
                        > >
                        > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                        > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
                        > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
                        > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
                        > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
                        > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
                        > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
                        > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
                        > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
                        > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
                        > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
                        > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
                        > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
                        > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
                        > >
                        > > Sincerely,
                        > >
                        > > Derin DePalermo
                        > > Assistant Park Superintendent
                        > > derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us
                        > >
                        > > User's Profile:
                        > > http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4
                        > >
                        > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                        > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com
                        > >


                      • Jana Iannello
                        On 4/8/2010 6:26 PM, wlind@austin.rr.com wrote: You probably didn t realize that this was a known snaky area when you put it out there.........
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 8 4:50 PM
                          On 4/8/2010 6:26 PM, wlind@... wrote:


                          You probably didn't realize that this was a 'known' snaky area when you put it out there.........
                           

                          While ultimately we have to accept the final decision of the park staff in a case like this, you may want to point out that we as geocachers are acutely aware of the dangers involved in geocaching. Anyone who enters that area, geocachers or not, are subject to the same level of risk. You may want to add the poisonous snake attribute to the cache page (if not already there) and then point this out to them that you have alerted cachers to the danger. If they still want it removed, you should agree to their wishes however.

                          Mi dos centavos.

                          ---- Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                          > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                          >
                          > Penny
                          > Cpnowak
                          >
                          >
                          > Begin forwarded message:
                          >
                          > > From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                          > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                          > > To: nowak@...
                          > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                          > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us
                          > >
                          >
                          > > To whom it may concern,
                          > >
                          > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                          > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
                          > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
                          > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
                          > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
                          > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
                          > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
                          > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
                          > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
                          > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
                          > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
                          > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
                          > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
                          > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
                          > >
                          > > Sincerely,
                          > >
                          > > Derin DePalermo
                          > > Assistant Park Superintendent
                          > > derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us
                          > >
                          > > User's Profile:
                          > > http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4
                          > >
                          > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                          > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com
                          > >


                        • Kevin Mefford
                          Heaven forbid, someone should enter a natural area of one of our state parks and actually ENCOUNTER NATURE!!! This has to be one of silliest concerns I ve ever
                          Message 12 of 27 , Apr 8 5:03 PM
                            Heaven forbid, someone should enter a natural area of one of our state parks and actually ENCOUNTER NATURE!!!

                            This has to be one of silliest concerns I've ever heard. A couple of years ago, I was hiking in Bastrop state park with a bunch of 4th grade girl scouts and the highlight of their walk was seeing the 3 foot coral snake 20' off the trail. 

                            How about we just pave the whole dang parks and call them disneyworld for crying out loud. 

                            While that would be a conversation I might have one-on-one with a ranger, I think you shouldn't even attempt education with them and just offer to archive the cache and move it to a new location. 

                            Kevin
                            Kooskoos

                            On Apr 8, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:

                             

                            What do you guys think about this email I received?

                            Penny
                            Cpnowak


                            Begin forwarded message:

                            From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                            Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                            To: nowak@...
                            Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                            Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state.tx.us

                            To whom it may concern,

                            I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                            Sincerely,

                            Derin DePalermo
                            Assistant Park Superintendent
                            derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state.tx.us

                            User's Profile:
                            http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
                            Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com

                          • bananapoo@stxga.com
                            I can understand running into a snake or two, even if they are poisonous, and hey, that s awesome. Try doing it at nite, when you don t see the snake, and you
                            Message 13 of 27 , Apr 8 5:12 PM
                              I can understand running into a snake or two, even if they are poisonous, and hey, that's awesome. Try doing it at nite, when you don't see the snake, and you step on it because its spread out on the path like snakes like to do at nite. What do you imagine will happen when you step on it? And how hard do you imagine it would be to get immediate medical attention in a state park at night out at palmetto.

                              Let's not mention that besides the snakes they mentioned, there are about 9 other species of snakes they didn't mention that you can encounter in that state park, including the western diamondback rattlesnake and eastern diamondback rattlesnake. I know a lot about wildlife as a hobby and from experience in the sticks, and I still would trust the opinion of the state park staff here.

                              I assume the risk when I go geocaching, but I still don't want to get bit by any of these snakes.

                              Even more so, it isn't so much about the snakes as it is that the state park asked to move the cache or archive it.

                              Matthew
                              Bananapoo

                              Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                              From: Kevin Mefford <centexgeocaching@...>
                              Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 19:03:30 -0500
                              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com<CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

                               

                              Heaven forbid, someone should enter a natural area of one of our state parks and actually ENCOUNTER NATURE!!!

                              This has to be one of silliest concerns I've ever heard. A couple of years ago, I was hiking in Bastrop state park with a bunch of 4th grade girl scouts and the highlight of their walk was seeing the 3 foot coral snake 20' off the trail. 

                              How about we just pave the whole dang parks and call them disneyworld for crying out loud. 

                              While that would be a conversation I might have one-on-one with a ranger, I think you shouldn't even attempt education with them and just offer to archive the cache and move it to a new location. 

                              Kevin
                              Kooskoos

                              On Apr 8, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:

                               

                              What do you guys think about this email I received?

                              Penny
                              Cpnowak


                              Begin forwarded message:

                              From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                              Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                              To: nowak@...
                              Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                              Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state.tx.us

                              To whom it may concern,

                              I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                              Sincerely,

                              Derin DePalermo
                              Assistant Park Superintendent
                              derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state.tx.us

                              User's Profile:
                              http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
                              Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com

                            • Victor Engel
                              I was wondering if those vultures still hung out there. That was one of the most interesting things of my visit there years ago. Victor
                              Message 14 of 27 , Apr 8 5:54 PM
                                I was wondering if those vultures still hung out there. That was one of the most interesting things of my visit there years ago.

                                Victor

                                On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Esther Lopez <bigguy9211116@...> wrote:


                                I was at Palmetto SP last spring and did this cache in the late gloom of the day. It was spooky with all the Turkey and Black vultures roosting nearby (they looked expectant!) but I saw no snakes either then or during the day.
                                 
                                The Superintendent told us about the time that he was bitten by a poisonous snake in his own backyard. Lucky for him it was only a glancing blow.
                                 
                                I must admit that the other cache (Look Above and Below) here gave me more concern than this one did for snakes since you have to climb up and down a rocky area.
                                 
                                Bottom line, if it was my cache, I would relocate.
                                 
                                Good luck and thanks for a fun (and luckily for me, uneventful) find.
                                 
                                Beget


                                --- On Thu, 4/8/10, wlind@... <wlind@...> wrote:

                                From: wlind@... <wlind@...>
                                Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: "Penny" <nowak@...>
                                Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 6:26 PM

                                 
                                While ultimately we have to accept the final decision of the park staff in a case like this, you may want to point out that we as geocachers are acutely aware of the dangers involved in geocaching. Anyone who enters that area, geocachers or not, are subject to the same level of risk. You may want to add the poisonous snake attribute to the cache page (if not already there) and then point this out to them that you have alerted cachers to the danger. If they still want it removed, you should agree to their wishes however.

                                Mi dos centavos.

                                ---- Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                                > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                                >
                                > Penny
                                > Cpnowak
                                >
                                >
                                > Begin forwarded message:
                                >
                                > > From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                                > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                > > To: nowak@...
                                > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us
                                > >
                                >
                                > > To whom it may concern,
                                > >
                                > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                                > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
                                > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
                                > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
                                > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
                                > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
                                > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
                                > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
                                > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
                                > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
                                > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
                                > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
                                > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
                                > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
                                > >
                                > > Sincerely,
                                > >
                                > > Derin DePalermo
                                > > Assistant Park Superintendent
                                > > derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us
                                > >
                                > > User's Profile:
                                > > http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4
                                > >
                                > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com
                                > >





                              • jestrrrulz@aol.com
                                Well if you got bit by a poisoness snake and couldn t get medical attention, then the vultures would have a nice meal, eh? Contribute to the food chain!
                                Message 15 of 27 , Apr 8 8:05 PM
                                  Well if you got bit by a poisoness snake and couldn't get medical attention, then the vultures would have a nice meal, eh? Contribute to the food chain!
                                   
                                  Jeri/JestrRulz
                                   
                                  In a message dated 4/8/2010 7:54:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, brillig@... writes:
                                  I was wondering if those vultures still hung out there.
                                • Penny
                                  Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Penny Cpnowak
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Apr 8 8:45 PM
                                    Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. 

                                    Penny
                                    Cpnowak

                                    On Apr 8, 2010, at 16:10, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:

                                    What do you guys think about this email I received?

                                    Penny
                                    Cpnowak


                                    Begin forwarded message:

                                    From: Geocaching <noreply@...>
                                    Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                    To: nowak@...
                                    Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                    Reply-To: derin.depalermo@...

                                    To whom it may concern,

                                    I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                                    Sincerely,

                                    Derin DePalermo
                                    Assistant Park Superintendent
                                    derin.depalermo@...

                                    User's Profile:
                                    http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954

                                    ------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...

                                  • electric_water_boy
                                    I wish they had asked their two geocaching volunteers about this (them being me and CADrake). My 2 cents - leave it. That 2 cents is directed at TPWD. As for
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Apr 8 9:00 PM
                                      I wish they had asked their two geocaching volunteers about this (them being me and CADrake). My 2 cents - leave it. That 2 cents is directed at TPWD. As for Penny, my 2 cents for her is to write an email saying why it should stay, with reasons like:
                                      1. One of the best night caches ever!
                                      2. It's a draw to the park.
                                      3. How many people have gotten bit finding this cache?
                                      4. It's at one of the main attractions in the park. Aren't people going to go there anyway?
                                      5. If push comes to shove, archive it and make a new one somewhere else.

                                      --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                                      >
                                      > Penny
                                      > Cpnowak
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Begin forwarded message:
                                      >
                                      > > From: Geocaching <noreply@...>
                                      > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                      > > To: nowak@...
                                      > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                      > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@...
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > To whom it may concern,
                                      > >
                                      > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                                      > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
                                      > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
                                      > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
                                      > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
                                      > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
                                      > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
                                      > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
                                      > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
                                      > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
                                      > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
                                      > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
                                      > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
                                      > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
                                      > >
                                      > > Sincerely,
                                      > >
                                      > > Derin DePalermo
                                      > > Assistant Park Superintendent
                                      > > derin.depalermo@...
                                      > >
                                      > > User's Profile:
                                      > > http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • electric_water_boy
                                      I also want to point out that they didn t asked for the cache to be archived. They asked for the owners opinion. I ve seen one rattlesnake in the park. It
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Apr 8 9:12 PM
                                        I also want to point out that they didn't asked for the cache to be archived. They asked for the owners opinion.

                                        I've seen one rattlesnake in the park. It was in the middle of the road. A snake is just as likely to hang out any any other cache in the park as this one. How many people walk the trails going to and from Fireflies and the TxGCC cache every day? How many knowingly encounter snakes? How many unknowingly encounter snakes? How many get bitten in the park every year?

                                        My two cents is still to reply why it should stay. In the end TPWD has the final say. We don't have to agree with it, but we do have to live with what they say.

                                        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "electric_water_boy" <electric_water_boy@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I wish they had asked their two geocaching volunteers about this (them being me and CADrake). My 2 cents - leave it. That 2 cents is directed at TPWD. As for Penny, my 2 cents for her is to write an email saying why it should stay, with reasons like:
                                        > 1. One of the best night caches ever!
                                        > 2. It's a draw to the park.
                                        > 3. How many people have gotten bit finding this cache?
                                        > 4. It's at one of the main attractions in the park. Aren't people going to go there anyway?
                                        > 5. If push comes to shove, archive it and make a new one somewhere else.
                                        >
                                        > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Penny <nowak@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                                        > >
                                        > > Penny
                                        > > Cpnowak
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Begin forwarded message:
                                        > >
                                        > > > From: Geocaching <noreply@>
                                        > > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                        > > > To: nowak@
                                        > > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                        > > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > > To whom it may concern,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                                        > > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
                                        > > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
                                        > > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
                                        > > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
                                        > > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
                                        > > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
                                        > > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
                                        > > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
                                        > > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
                                        > > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
                                        > > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
                                        > > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
                                        > > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Sincerely,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Derin DePalermo
                                        > > > Assistant Park Superintendent
                                        > > > derin.depalermo@
                                        > > >
                                        > > > User's Profile:
                                        > > > http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Doc
                                        If it were mine, I d remove ASAP.  I would hate to hear that a cacher got bit by a poisonous snake going for one of my caches and I had been warned ahead of
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Apr 8 11:17 PM
                                          If it were mine, I'd remove ASAP.  I would hate to hear that a cacher got bit by a poisonous snake going for one of my caches and I had been warned ahead of time about it being a particularly dangerous area for snakes and did nothing about it...
                                          But that's just my opinion....

                                           
                                          Barry 
                                          aka Doc Geo
                                          Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, a burger in one hand, a beer in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
                                           


                                          --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Victor Engel <brillig@...> wrote:

                                          From: Victor Engel <brillig@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 4:15 PM

                                           
                                          In my opinion, anyone who wants to traipse around in the woods can decide for themselves how safe things are. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment going there myself. Have I encountered my share of snakes? You bet! I love it.

                                          Victor

                                          On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:


                                          What do you guys think about this email I received?

                                          Penny
                                          Cpnowak


                                          Begin forwarded message:

                                          From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                                          Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                          To: nowak@...
                                          Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                          Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                                          To whom it may concern,

                                          I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                                          Sincerely,

                                          Derin DePalermo
                                          Assistant Park Superintendent
                                          derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                                          User's Profile:
                                          http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

                                          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
                                          Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com





                                        • Mrs. Captain Picard
                                          Let me just say that Palmetto gives me the creeps, just because they have so many signs warning you about snakes. I HATE snakes. For the record, I have NEVER
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Apr 9 6:27 AM
                                            Let me just say that Palmetto gives me the creeps, just because they have so many signs warning you about snakes. I HATE snakes.  For the record, I have NEVER even SEEN a rattlesnake in all my geo-hiking.  Knock on wood.
                                             
                                            First, that TPWD wanted to work with you was a HUGE PLUS!  It's not always that way.  I think we respect their advice and get them to help relocate the cache to a more acceptable location within the park.  Like Tom, I'm confused as to why the geo-volunteers weren't contacted.  Hmmmmm.  On the bright side, at least they knew how to find the cache on the website and contact the owner.  .....or MAYBE they referred to the permit.  Either way, it was  an  improvement over yanking the cache as they might have done in the past.
                                             
                                            Cheers,
                                            Julie
                                            Mrs. Captain Picard
                                            On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            What do you guys think about this email I received?

                                            Penny
                                            Cpnowak

                                            .


                                          • Indigo Parrish
                                            ... Hi Penny -- I might as well add my two cents as the token High Terrain contrarian ... I found that cache in Palmetto totally by accident. I was on the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Apr 9 9:22 AM
                                              --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > What do you guys think about this email I received?

                                              Hi Penny --

                                              I might as well add my two cents as the token High Terrain
                                              contrarian ...

                                              I found that cache in Palmetto totally by accident.
                                              I was on the wrong trail at night looking for the TxGCC
                                              cache and saw the fireflies. I followed them ...
                                              and found the cache. For me it was MAGICAL and I am
                                              willing to take the risk for adventurous caches like that.
                                              That cache is one of my all time favorites partly because
                                              of how I found it via chance, cacher sense, and just how
                                              cool it was (even the final location was neat!)

                                              I am sick to death of long strings of boring park and
                                              grab caches just for jacking up numbers. I will take 1
                                              Palmetto Fireflies cache over 50 P&G caches ANY DAY.

                                              It was very nice that TxPWD contacted you so I'd continue
                                              the dialog with them. Perhaps there's a spot nearby
                                              where it can be moved off the ground to minimize the
                                              snake issue. Make it clear that the "snake" attribute
                                              can be listed on the cache. Add warning comments on
                                              the cache page to bring a large stick to poke around
                                              the cache when you find it. Some polite feedback to them
                                              might address their reservations without capitulation.

                                              But to lose a cool cache like this due to being
                                              excessively Nervous Nellies? C'mon! What are the
                                              parks for but to get people out of their comfortable
                                              urban bubbles and ENCOUNTER NATURE and LEARN to do
                                              so with some common sense. Learn how to deal with
                                              the snake risk!

                                              Otherwise it's just endless skirt lifters and film
                                              canisters on cedar trees ... YAWN.

                                              -Keith (Indigo Parrish)

                                              > Penny
                                              > Cpnowak
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Begin forwarded message:
                                              >
                                              > > From: Geocaching <noreply@...>
                                              > > Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                              > > To: nowak@...
                                              > > Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                              > > Reply-To: derin.depalermo@...
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > > To whom it may concern,
                                              > >
                                              > > I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that
                                              > > you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com
                                              > > as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at
                                              > > nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for
                                              > > its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral
                                              > > snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake. The area where the
                                              > > Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of
                                              > > the park for snakes. Although this is such a beautifulI area of the
                                              > > park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a
                                              > > geocache location because of the risk of snake bites. More and more
                                              > > people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.
                                              > > Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would
                                              > > recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please
                                              > > respond back to me with your thoughts. Thank you.
                                              > >
                                              > > Sincerely,
                                              > >
                                              > > Derin DePalermo
                                              > > Assistant Park Superintendent
                                              > > derin.depalermo@...
                                              > >
                                              > > User's Profile:
                                              > > http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • engelwaffen@suddenlink.net
                                              My two cents and an observation. TPWD is willing to working with us...or they can play hardball and strike geocaching access to Texas State Parks. You can
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Apr 9 2:42 PM
                                                My two cents and an observation. 
                                                 
                                                TPWD is willing to working with us...or they can play hardball and strike geocaching access to Texas State Parks.  You can only look at what Arkansas geocacher is putting up with with some of the national forests instituting a yearly fee of 57.00 for cache placement in their jurisdictions. 
                                                 
                                                 
                                                I might add since TPWD has been kind to us so far we should abide by the few requests they make of us.
                                                 
                                                amishangel/don
                                                 
                                                 
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Penny
                                                Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:10 PM
                                                Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

                                                 

                                                What do you guys think about this email I received?

                                                Penny
                                                Cpnowak


                                                Begin forwarded message:

                                                From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                                                Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                                To: nowak@...
                                                Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                                Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                                                To whom it may concern,

                                                I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                                                Sincerely,

                                                Derin DePalermo
                                                Assistant Park Superintendent
                                                derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                                                User's Profile:
                                                http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

                                                ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
                                                Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com

                                              • bananapoo@stxga.com
                                                I agree. I had heard of this cache and have wanted to go find it for some time, but I don t want to compete with ideas with an authoritative figure like TPWD.
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Apr 9 3:15 PM
                                                  I agree. I had heard of this cache and have wanted to go find it for some time, but I don't want to compete with ideas with an authoritative figure like TPWD. If we do, scratch the texas challenge of the list for state parks, and expect chaos to ensue for the many caches placed in state parks at the moment.

                                                  Other state park departments have not been so kind to geocachers, and we should be lucky to have a state park department that really supports our sport.

                                                  Penny, that must have been a hard and saddening decision, but let's use the archival of the cache to expand the support the parks give us. We work with you, you work with us type of thing.

                                                  Bananapoo

                                                  Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                                                  From: <engelwaffen@...>
                                                  Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 16:42:40 -0500
                                                  To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

                                                   

                                                  My two cents and an observation. 
                                                   
                                                  TPWD is willing to working with us...or they can play hardball and strike geocaching access to Texas State Parks.  You can only look at what Arkansas geocacher is putting up with with some of the national forests instituting a yearly fee of 57.00 for cache placement in their jurisdictions. 
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  I might add since TPWD has been kind to us so far we should abide by the few requests they make of us.
                                                   
                                                  amishangel/don
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Penny
                                                  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:10 PM
                                                  Subject: [CentralTexasGeocac hers] Fwd: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com

                                                   

                                                  What do you guys think about this email I received?

                                                  Penny
                                                  Cpnowak


                                                  Begin forwarded message:

                                                  From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching. com>
                                                  Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                                  To: nowak@...
                                                  Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                                  Reply-To: derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                                                  To whom it may concern,

                                                  I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache that you set up at Palmetto State Park.  I regularly receive updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your Fireflies Geocahe at nightime.  Due to its diverse habitat, the park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber Rattlesnake.  The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes.  Although this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of the risk of snake bites.  More and more people are going after this geocache which is becoming a concern.  Texas State Parks certainly supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this particular cachefrom Geocaching.com.  Please respond back to me with your thoughts.  Thank you.

                                                  Sincerely,

                                                  Derin DePalermo
                                                  Assistant Park Superintendent
                                                  derin.depalermo@ tpwd.state. tx.us

                                                  User's Profile:
                                                  http://www.geocachi ng.com/profile/ ?guid=0041ff32- c4b2-4780- aad1-017353ccc95 4

                                                  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
                                                  Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching. com

                                                • Esther Lopez
                                                  Jeri, you are such an optimist - and FUNNY! ... From: jestrrrulz@aol.com Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Palmetto State Park Cache
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Apr 9 8:19 PM
                                                    Jeri, you are such an optimist - and FUNNY!

                                                    --- On Thu, 4/8/10, jestrrrulz@... <jestrrrulz@...> wrote:

                                                    From: jestrrrulz@... <jestrrrulz@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Palmetto State Park Cache
                                                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 10:05 PM

                                                     
                                                    Well if you got bit by a poisoness snake and couldn't get medical attention, then the vultures would have a nice meal, eh? Contribute to the food chain!
                                                     
                                                    Jeri/JestrRulz
                                                     
                                                    In a message dated 4/8/2010 7:54:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, brillig@gmail. com writes:
                                                    I was wondering if those vultures still hung out there.

                                                  • Jim
                                                    So what you re saying then, Kevin, is something to the effect of You shouldn t... and You should. Yes? Heheheh, sounds exactly as I would put it. I can so
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Apr 10 4:26 PM
                                                      So what you're saying then, Kevin, is something to the effect of
                                                      You shouldn't...
                                                      and
                                                      You should.

                                                      Yes? Heheheh, sounds exactly as I would put it. I can so relate.
                                                      -Jim/JforceAtx

                                                      --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Mefford <centexgeocaching@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Heaven forbid, someone should enter a natural area of one of our state
                                                      > parks and actually ENCOUNTER NATURE!!!
                                                      >
                                                      > This has to be one of silliest concerns I've ever heard. A couple of
                                                      > years ago, I was hiking in Bastrop state park with a bunch of 4th
                                                      > grade girl scouts and the highlight of their walk was seeing the 3
                                                      > foot coral snake 20' off the trail.
                                                      >
                                                      > How about we just pave the whole dang parks and call them disneyworld
                                                      > for crying out loud.
                                                      >
                                                      > While that would be a conversation I might have one-on-one with a
                                                      > ranger, I think you shouldn't even attempt education with them and
                                                      > just offer to archive the cache and move it to a new location.
                                                      >
                                                      > Kevin
                                                      > Kooskoos
                                                      >
                                                      > On Apr 8, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Penny <nowak@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > What do you guys think about this email I received?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Penny
                                                      > > Cpnowak
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Begin forwarded message:
                                                      > >
                                                      > >> From: Geocaching <noreply@...>
                                                      > >> Date: April 7, 2010 20:24:27 CDT
                                                      > >> To: nowak@...
                                                      > >> Subject: [GEO] Palmetto State Park contacting cpnowak from Geocaching.com
                                                      > >> Reply-To: derin.depalermo@...
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >
                                                      > >> To whom it may concern,
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> I am writing in regards to the "Fireflies at Palmetto" Geocache
                                                      > >> that you set up at Palmetto State Park. I regularly receive
                                                      > >> updates from Geocaching.com as to the folks who are visiting your
                                                      > >> Fireflies Geocahe at nightime. Due to its diverse habitat, the
                                                      > >> park is well known for its poisonous snakes including the
                                                      > >> Cottonmouth, Copperhead, Coral snake, and the protected Timber
                                                      > >> Rattlesnake. The area where the Fireflies Geocache is located is
                                                      > >> arguably the most dangerous area of the park for snakes. Although
                                                      > >> this is such a beautifulI area of the park, I would not recommend
                                                      > >> this site whether day or night as a geocache location because of
                                                      > >> the risk of snake bites. More and more people are going after this
                                                      > >> geocache which is becoming a concern. Texas State Parks certainly
                                                      > >> supports Geocaching, however I would recommend removing this
                                                      > >> particular cachefrom Geocaching.com. Please respond back to me
                                                      > >> with your thoughts. Thank you.
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> Sincerely,
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> Derin DePalermo
                                                      > >> Assistant Park Superintendent
                                                      > >> derin.depalermo@...
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> User's Profile:
                                                      > >> http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0041ff32-c4b2-4780-aad1-017353ccc954
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
                                                      > >> Forward abuse complaints to: contact@...
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • Jim
                                                      LOL Jeri, that was my first thought too when the vultures were introduced!
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Apr 10 4:31 PM
                                                        LOL Jeri, that was my first thought too when the vultures were introduced!


                                                        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, jestrrrulz@... wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Well if you got bit by a poisoness snake and couldn't get medical
                                                        > attention, then the vultures would have a nice meal, eh? Contribute to the food
                                                        > chain!
                                                        >
                                                        > Jeri/JestrRulz
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > In a message dated 4/8/2010 7:54:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                                        > brillig@... writes:
                                                        >
                                                        > I was wondering if those vultures still hung out there.
                                                        >
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