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RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Traveling by Air

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  • Lee Dedear
    Actually, they DON T let you turn on a radio receiver on board. Some radio receivers work by generating radio frequency signals of their own, and mixing them
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 29, 2007
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      Actually, they DON'T let you turn on a radio receiver on board. Some radio receivers work by generating radio frequency signals of their own, and mixing them with the received signals to produce the audio frequency signals that you hear. And digital devices also generate radio frequency signals, some more than others. Here's some interesting information on the subject: http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm


      From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete
      Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:55 PM
      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Traveling by Air

      Well if cell phones really caused problems on flights - there would be one heck of a lot of private planes and private business jets going down all over. Fact of the matter is that cell phones really dont cause problems with instrumentation on the aircraft, why they have been banned I am not certain. Many airlines, including Southwest, however will allow you to use a GPS during the flight - it is a receiver and doesnt transmit anything. It would be the equivalent of telling you that you couldnt turn on a radio receiver on board - wouldnt make any sense.
       
      Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: "Perrine, Julie" <julie.perrine@...>
      To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 3:47:09 PM
      Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Traveling by Air

      My reasoning is, that Flight 81 with all those people being hijacked and calling home to say goodby didn’t fall out of the air due to cell phone usage.  It took hijackers to wrestle it down.  So I’m not sure what all the panic is.  The FCC has already come out saying cell phones don’t cause a technical problem.  I’m sure the reluctance is due to the probability of inane/personal/ business conversations going on all over the plane and that’s enough to keep it banned forever!  

       

      But GPS’s are quiet, to they should be ok, don’t you think!!!!!!

       

      Julie

      Mrs. Captain Picard

       

      From: CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com [mailto: CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Chuck P.
      Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 3:41 PM
      To: CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [CentralTexasGeocac hers] Re: Traveling by Air

       

      That sounds like my experience I had when I flew from here to PA
      I had two flight attendants and the magazine that everyone looks at
      to buy stuff, with the magazine (SkyMallI Think) opened, GPS devices
      are strictly forbidden, circled in pen ink several times, and watched
      me turn it off and put it away. I have the legend, and with its weak
      antenna, I had it right up against the window, looked pretty obvious!
      I flew American as well as Delta, and had issues.
      (Yes I have to be told twice!)
      I had no idea those magazines actually had information in them
      -Team red fox

      --- In CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com, "SoaringEagle"
      <arnaud@...> wrote:

      >
      > I would recommend not to use it if
      you are flying American.
      Carrying
      > is not a problem, I do that all
      the time. But once I used it
      during a
      > flight to Toronto and was told
      by a flight attendant that it was not
      > allowed. A few minutes later,
      another flight attendant came to look
      > for the person that was using a
      GPS, and re-iterated to me that it
      was
      > strictly forbidden to use on
      board.
      >
      > Arnaud (SoaringEagle)
      >
      > --- In
      href="mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers%40yahoogroups.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com, Barbara Dukette
      > <bjdukette@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I carry mine
      every time I travel. I've never had any problems, and
      > like to see what
      altitude/speed we're fying at. I think some
      airlines
      > have rules
      about turning them on onboard, but I've never had
      problems,
      > even
      flying to Mexico & back.
      > >
      > > Good travels,
      > >
      > > Barbara (GiGi and JoJo)
      >




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    • Brent
      I can attest to the fact that radio receivers can interfere with other equipment. I was in a National Forest campground one day and found myself annoyed by
      Message 2 of 29 , Jul 30, 2007
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        I can attest to the fact that radio receivers can interfere with other
        equipment. I was in a National Forest campground one day and found
        myself annoyed by some other campers who were blasting music from
        their car radio about 150 feet away from us. When I go out to the
        woods, I want peace and quiet, not blaring music. (But that's a
        soapbox I won't get on now!)

        Anyway, I decided if I was going to have to listen to music, at least
        I could listen to some of my own choosing, not theirs, so I turned on
        my car radio. As I tuned through the FM band (this was an analog
        radio) I noticed that at one point the other people's radio went
        silent, then came on again. Through a bit of trial and error, I
        determined that when I set my radio at a certain frequency, it blocked
        their signal completely!

        When their radio went silent, they would come over and re-tune it, and
        it would work again, but all I had to do was adjust mine a bit, and it
        would block their's again! After doing this 3 or 4 times, they finally
        got frustrated and turned it off! Now I had my peace and quiet! (LOL)

        Unfortunately I can't get that to work with my current radio, but it
        does show that it can happen.

        Thanks for posting that article Lee, and I like your web page also!

        Brent (BANDA)

        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Dedear"
        <ldedear@...> wrote:
        >
        > Actually, they DON'T let you turn on a radio receiver on board. Some
        radio
        > receivers work by generating radio frequency signals of their own, and
        > mixing them with the received signals to produce the audio frequency
        signals
        > that you hear. And digital devices also generate radio frequency
        signals,
        > some more than others. Here's some interesting information on the
        subject:
        > http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm
      • Pete
        Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft due to all the new rules and regs about what you can and cant do on the
        Message 3 of 29 , Jul 30, 2007
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          Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft due to all the new rules and regs about what you can and cant do on the airplane, but after using mine on a flight from vegas to san antonio aboard Southwest airlines it doesnt really make sense that it would interefere with anything in the cockpit, especially since there are multiple gps units up there guiding them to their destinations.
           
          Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike


           
          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Brent <brbapb@...>
          To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:34:49 AM
          Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Traveling by Air

          I can attest to the fact that radio receivers can interfere with other
          equipment. I was in a National Forest campground one day and found
          myself annoyed by some other campers who were blasting music from
          their car radio about 150 feet away from us. When I go out to the
          woods, I want peace and quiet, not blaring music. (But that's a
          soapbox I won't get on now!)

          Anyway, I decided if I was going to have to listen to music, at least
          I could listen to some of my own choosing, not theirs, so I turned on
          my car radio. As I tuned through the FM band (this was an analog
          radio) I noticed that at one point the other people's radio went
          silent, then came on again. Through a bit of trial and error, I
          determined that when I set my radio at a certain frequency, it blocked
          their signal completely!

          When their radio went silent, they would come over and re-tune it, and
          it would work again, but all I had to do was adjust mine a bit, and it
          would block their's again! After doing this 3 or 4 times, they finally
          got frustrated and turned it off! Now I had my peace and quiet! (LOL)

          Unfortunately I can't get that to work with my current radio, but it
          does show that it can happen.

          Thanks for posting that article Lee, and I like your web page also!

          Brent (BANDA)

          --- In CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com, "Lee Dedear"
          <ldedear@... > wrote:

          >
          > Actually, they DON'T let you turn on a radio receiver on board. Some
          radio
          > receivers work by generating radio frequency signals of their own, and
          > mixing them with the received signals to produce the audio frequency
          signals
          > that you hear. And digital devices also generate radio frequency
          signals,
          > some more than others. Here's some interesting
          information on the
          subject:
          > http://gpsinformati on.net/airgps/ gpsrfi.htm




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        • Barb Jernigan
          On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Pete writes: Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft
          Message 4 of 29 , Jul 30, 2007
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            On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Pete <peterhey2@...> writes:
            Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft due to all the new rules and regs about what you can and cant do on the airplane, but after using mine on a flight from vegas to san antonio aboard Southwest airlines it doesnt really make sense that it would interefere with anything in the cockpit, especially since there are multiple gps units up there guiding them to their destinations.
             
            Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike
            Some don't interfer.... probably 99.9% don't....
             
            But who knows what does -- or if someone might jury rig a unit. Or a unit might have a short in it.
            While I would hope a commercial aircraft has better shielding on its communications and electronics,
            I'm with the Myth Busters -- I don't necessarily want the FAA to take that chance.
             
            Also, it's easier to ENFORCE a blanket rule than a bunch of exceptions....
             
            Remember, a planeload of travelers can be a LOT like a classroom full of kindergarteners -- "But HE'S USING HIS...!"
             
            Sad, but true. And I'm sorry for the times we live in, where overreacting to a potential threat seems to be some authority institutions' idea of action (or the appearance of action, to keep the masses from panicking)(don't start me, I get all curmudgeonly and stop only short of arm waving (someone could lose an EYE!!!!)).
             
            So while the danger is, likely, nonexistent -- and the rules are probably only that, rules -- I suppose I don't need to watch my track log THAT badly.
             
            Fly Frontier -- the tracklog is built into the seat.
             
            Barb/Tygress
             
             
          • Randell Pitts
            The FAA rules state that no electronic device can be used while an aircraft is in flight unless that device has been certified thru testing to not interfere
            Message 5 of 29 , Jul 30, 2007
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              The FAA rules state that no electronic device can be used while an aircraft is in flight unless that device has been certified thru testing to not interfere with flight instrumentation.  And when we are talking about a device, the FAA does not generalize- meaning each make and model of toy "X" has to be individually certified: ie, Garmin 60C,60CS, 60CSx, etc...  Also, I believe the certification process has to test the toy against each model of aircraft.  So you can see how the certification process goes out of control quickly.

              Now, does this mean that they tested each and every electronic device, is MP3 players, DVD players, etc?  No; they probably exceptioned these because they do no transmit or receive signals.

              I'm not going to tell you how I know this, but I can tell you that my cell phone gets crappy coverage at 1000-3000ft altitude between Austin and DFW- much worse than on the ground...

              R

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Barb Jernigan <gumbietygress@...>
              To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:22:20 AM
              Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Traveling by Air

              On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Pete <peterhey2@yahoo. com> writes:
              Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft due to all the new rules and regs about what you can and cant do on the airplane, but after using mine on a flight from vegas to san antonio aboard Southwest airlines it doesnt really make sense that it would interefere with anything in the cockpit, especially since there are multiple gps units up there guiding them to their destinations.
               
              Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike
              Some don't interfer.... probably 99.9% don't....
               
              But who knows what does -- or if someone might jury rig a unit. Or a unit might have a short in it.
              While I would hope a commercial aircraft has better shielding on its communications and electronics,
              I'm with the Myth Busters -- I don't necessarily want the FAA to take that chance.
               
              Also, it's easier to ENFORCE a blanket rule than a bunch of exceptions.. ..
               
              Remember, a planeload of travelers can be a LOT like a classroom full of kindergarteners -- "But HE'S USING HIS...!"
               
              Sad, but true. And I'm sorry for the times we live in, where overreacting to a potential threat seems to be some authority institutions' idea of action (or the appearance of action, to keep the masses from panicking)(don' t start me, I get all curmudgeonly and stop only short of arm waving (someone could lose an EYE!!!!)).
               
              So while the danger is, likely, nonexistent -- and the rules are probably only that, rules -- I suppose I don't need to watch my track log THAT badly.
               
              Fly Frontier -- the tracklog is built into the seat.
               
              Barb/Tygress
               
               

            • Doc
              I can think of one reason right off the top of my head (I was an aircrew member in the Air Force for 13 years...) why the airlines could be suspicious... To
              Message 6 of 29 , Jul 30, 2007
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                I can think of one reason right off the top of my head (I was an aircrew member in the Air Force for 13 years...) why the airlines could be suspicious...  To mix a well-known movie plot with real technology:
                A "bad" person can send radio signals, that carry bearing/distance information, to aircraft in flight that the aircraft instruments will read and take as though they came from the airport/FAA instead of "someone" else. In the second Die Hard movie, terrorists used this to fly aircraft into the ground by making the instruments show the plane was higher than it really was.  A terrorist on board a plane could use a GPS to monitor the actions of the flight crew (by watching the plane's position) to insure that their (the terrorists) attempts to "spoof" the navigational equipment is going as planned....
                 
                Barry

                Pete <peterhey2@...> wrote:
                Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft due to all the new rules and regs about what you can and cant do on the airplane, but after using mine on a flight from vegas to san antonio aboard Southwest airlines it doesnt really make sense that it would interefere with anything in the cockpit, especially since there are multiple gps units up there guiding them to their destinations.
                 
                Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike


                 
                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Brent <brbapb@yahoo. com>
                To: CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:34:49 AM
                Subject: [CentralTexasGeocac hers] Re: Traveling by Air

                I can attest to the fact that radio receivers can interfere with other
                equipment. I was in a National Forest campground one day and found
                myself annoyed by some other campers who were blasting music from
                their car radio about 150 feet away from us. When I go out to the
                woods, I want peace and quiet, not blaring music. (But that's a
                soapbox I won't get on now!)

                Anyway, I decided if I was going to have to listen to music, at least
                I could listen to some of my own choosing, not theirs, so I turned on
                my car radio. As I tuned through the FM band (this was an analog
                radio) I noticed that at one point the other people's radio went
                silent, then came on again. Through a bit of trial and error, I
                determined that when I set my radio at a certain frequency, it blocked
                their signal completely!

                When their radio went silent, they would come over and re-tune it, and
                it would work again, but all I had to do was adjust mine a bit, and it
                would block their's again! After doing this 3 or 4 times, they finally
                got frustrated and turned it off! Now I had my peace and quiet! (LOL)

                Unfortunately I can't get that to work with my current radio, but it
                does show that it can happen.

                Thanks for posting that article Lee, and I like your web page also!

                Brent (BANDA)

                --- In CentralTexasGeocach ers@yahoogroups. com, "Lee Dedear"
                <ldedear@... > wrote:
                >
                > Actually, they DON'T let you turn on a radio receiver on board. Some
                radio
                > receivers work by generating radio frequency signals of their own, and
                > mixing them with the received signals to produce the audio frequency
                signals
                > that you hear. And digital devices also generate radio frequency
                signals,
                > some more than others. Here's some interesting information on the
                subject:
                > http://gpsinformati on.net/airgps/ gpsrfi.htm




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              • Pete
                Well as i recall the mythbusters testing episode they were testing cellphones which is both a transmitter and receiver, and they had to boost the power way up
                Message 7 of 29 , Jul 30, 2007
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                  Well as i recall the mythbusters testing episode they were testing cellphones which is both a transmitter and receiver, and they had to boost the power way up to cause any problems. However no matter what, i believe in the safety of all aircraft in flight (i am a pilot myself) so whatever rules they set up and for whatever reason they set them up I will obey them. Like I said in my first post, I had the permission of the flight crew to use mine during that Vegas flight, and Southwest Airways specifically allowed the use of gps units aboard their flights (it was on their website at the time). However, knowing the sensitivity of other folks on the airplane who arent as educated as us geocachers, i made absolutely sure that all the flight crew knew about it, what it was and what I was doing with it. It sure generated a bunch of interest in the folks around me on the flight and I possibly converted a few of them to geocaching before the flight ended.
                   
                  Anyway just be safe and follow the rules and everything will work out.
                   
                  Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike

                   
                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Barb Jernigan <gumbietygress@...>
                  To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:22:20 AM
                  Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Traveling by Air

                  On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Pete <peterhey2@yahoo. com> writes:
                  Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft due to all the new rules and regs about what you can and cant do on the airplane, but after using mine on a flight from vegas to san antonio aboard Southwest airlines it doesnt really make sense that it would interefere with anything in the cockpit, especially since there are multiple gps units up there guiding them to their destinations.
                   
                  Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike
                  Some don't interfer.... probably 99.9% don't....
                   
                  But who knows what does -- or if someone might jury rig a unit. Or a unit might have a short in it.
                  While I would hope a commercial aircraft has better shielding on its communications and electronics,
                  I'm with the Myth Busters -- I don't necessarily want the FAA to take that chance.
                   
                  Also, it's easier to ENFORCE a blanket rule than a bunch of exceptions.. ..
                   
                  Remember, a planeload of travelers can be a LOT like a classroom full of kindergarteners -- "But HE'S USING HIS...!"
                   
                  Sad, but true. And I'm sorry for the times we live in, where overreacting to a potential threat seems to be some authority institutions' idea of action (or the appearance of action, to keep the masses from panicking)(don' t start me, I get all curmudgeonly and stop only short of arm waving (someone could lose an EYE!!!!)).
                   
                  So while the danger is, likely, nonexistent -- and the rules are probably only that, rules -- I suppose I don't need to watch my track log THAT badly.
                   
                  Fly Frontier -- the tracklog is built into the seat.
                   
                  Barb/Tygress
                   
                   



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                • Barb Jernigan
                  Yup, exactly.... On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Pete writes: Well as i recall the mythbusters testing episode they were testing
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jul 30, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yup, exactly....
                     
                    On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Pete <peterhey2@...> writes:
                    Well as i recall the mythbusters testing episode they were testing cellphones which is both a transmitter and receiver, and they had to boost the power way up to cause any problems. However no matter what, i believe in the safety of all aircraft in flight (i am a pilot myself) so whatever rules they set up and for whatever reason they set them up I will obey them. Like I said in my first post, I had the permission of the flight crew to use mine during that Vegas flight, and Southwest Airways specifically allowed the use of gps units aboard their flights (it was on their website at the time). However, knowing the sensitivity of other folks on the airplane who arent as educated as us geocachers, i made absolutely sure that all the flight crew knew about it, what it was and what I was doing with it. It sure generated a bunch of interest in the folks around me on the flight and I possibly converted a few of them to geocaching before the flight ended.
                     
                    Anyway just be safe and follow the rules and everything will work out.
                     
                    Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike

                     
                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Barb Jernigan <gumbietygress@...>
                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:22:20 AM
                    Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Traveling by Air

                    On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Pete <peterhey2@yahoo. com> writes:
                    Well i can understand why they may not want you to use gps on board the aircraft due to all the new rules and regs about what you can and cant do on the airplane, but after using mine on a flight from vegas to san antonio aboard Southwest airlines it doesnt really make sense that it would interefere with anything in the cockpit, especially since there are multiple gps units up there guiding them to their destinations.
                     
                    Paparazzi Pete of PetenMike
                    Some don't interfer.... probably 99.9% don't....
                     
                    But who knows what does -- or if someone might jury rig a unit. Or a unit might have a short in it.
                    While I would hope a commercial aircraft has better shielding on its communications and electronics,
                    I'm with the Myth Busters -- I don't necessarily want the FAA to take that chance.
                     
                    Also, it's easier to ENFORCE a blanket rule than a bunch of exceptions.. ..
                     
                    Remember, a planeload of travelers can be a LOT like a classroom full of kindergarteners -- "But HE'S USING HIS...!"
                     
                    Sad, but true. And I'm sorry for the times we live in, where overreacting to a potential threat seems to be some authority institutions' idea of action (or the appearance of action, to keep the masses from panicking)(don' t start me, I get all curmudgeonly and stop only short of arm waving (someone could lose an EYE!!!!)).
                     
                    So while the danger is, likely, nonexistent -- and the rules are probably only that, rules -- I suppose I don't need to watch my track log THAT badly.
                     
                    Fly Frontier -- the tracklog is built into the seat.
                     
                    Barb/Tygress
                     
                     



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