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Re: Cache approval/disapproval and Geocaching.com's existence

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  • Rich Wendling <web-ling@flash.net>
    There s a delicate balance between the demands of the geocaching community to reduce the number of lame caches and the need to make cache approval as simple
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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      There's a delicate balance between the demands of the geocaching
      community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and the need to make
      cache approval as simple as possible and allowing "creative" caches.

      My biggest complaints are that:

      1. There are standards the approvers use to approve/disapprove caches
      that aren't listed, and

      2. The standards are not applied consistently by all approvers.

      Erik "erik88l-r" seems to be the most prolific cache approver, and he
      also seems to have a strong dislike of virtual caches. I've had
      several questioned by him. I do have to give him credit for the fact
      that in each case, he has been willing to work with me to clarify
      issues, and has eventually approved each of them. It was a hassle,
      but they eventually did get approved.

      The options I see:

      1. Lobby Jeremy to get ALL standards posted on the website, and to
      have ALL approvers apply ONLY the POSTED standards.

      2. When a cache is rejected, do what you can to answer the issues
      raised. Be willing to modify cache pages or provide evidence to
      support the validity of the cache.

      3. If it's still not approved, post the specifics in the forums,
      and "poll the audience", the appeal straight to Jeremy.

      4. You can always post it on Navicache.com

      I don't think Geocaching.com will go away any time soon. If the do,
      there are other sites.

      I'm sorry to see anyone quit the game because geocaching.com is going
      through some major growing pains. Stick with it, and do what you can
      to help us all through the problems. Most of the restrictions have
      come about due to the strong community opinions on the forums. Voice
      your opinion in a positive way on the forums. Voice it often. As
      they say, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." If pendulum of
      community opinion can be swayed in a different direction, I'm
      confident Jeremy et al will respond.

      Rich Wendling
      aka Web-ling
    • angryarmadillo <angryarmadillo@yahoo.com>
      ... This is where all my new caches are going and the only place they are going. They are _my_ caches, not geocaching.com s. They might get less visitors but
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wendling
        <web-ling@f...>" <web-ling@f...> wrote:

        > 4. You can always post it on Navicache.com
        >
        This is where all my new caches are going and the only place they are
        going. They are _my_ caches, not geocaching.com's. They might get less
        visitors but who cares. If I want to place a cache on my front lawn,
        that's my business. No one makes anybody go to any cache. I think
        adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
        That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
        it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I might
        try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site. Jeremy and friends
        aren't going to listen to people's concerns until they are forced to
        by competition. Hit them where it hurts, their pocketbook. Take your
        toys elsewhere. Navicache has already stated they will participate in
        an open source type geocaching database. I think I'll play with them
        because they seem to want to play with me.

        See you on the trails,
        Tony of Team Bohica
      • David Gahagan
        Go Tony... Maybe a rating system at the cache level would be a nice feature. What I m thinking is something where those that are logging a find can rate the
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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          Go Tony... Maybe a rating system at the cache level would be a nice
          feature. What I'm thinking is something where those that are logging a find
          can rate the cache on a scale from 1 to 5 or something. Much like the
          freeware sites allow ratings or epinions.com allows ratings.

          Also someone mentioned Buxley's, how is their site?

          Thanks
          FireCacher


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <angryarmadillo@...>
          To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:52 AM
          Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
          Geocaching.com's existence


          > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wendling
          > <web-ling@f...>" <web-ling@f...> wrote:
          >
          > > 4. You can always post it on Navicache.com
          > >
          > This is where all my new caches are going and the only place they are
          > going. They are _my_ caches, not geocaching.com's. They might get less
          > visitors but who cares. If I want to place a cache on my front lawn,
          > that's my business. No one makes anybody go to any cache. I think
          > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
          > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
          > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I might
          > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site. Jeremy and friends
          > aren't going to listen to people's concerns until they are forced to
          > by competition. Hit them where it hurts, their pocketbook. Take your
          > toys elsewhere. Navicache has already stated they will participate in
          > an open source type geocaching database. I think I'll play with them
          > because they seem to want to play with me.
          >
          > See you on the trails,
          > Tony of Team Bohica
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • David Gahagan
          Rich, thanks for your support. These are the exact issues I am talking about and have mentioned in the post in the thread, and that you have mentioned more
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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            Rich, thanks for your support. These are the exact issues I am talking
            about and have mentioned in the post in the thread, and that you have
            mentioned more than once.

            In addition, I find it troubling that there seems to be no interest in
            creating caches that are handicapped accessible.

            It also interesting that Jeremy has had nothing to say.

            I'm done with geocaching.com for now. I had several other (what I thought)
            were great cache locations in my area (east of Austin), but I see no reason
            to put forth any effort to get them hidden. And yes they were mostly
            virtuals to add to my Chainsaw Massacre series. The childish remarks like
            "why don't you go find more caches then come back and make your comments
            since you've only found 6", and the like have completely turned me off.
            This sport is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. Arguing with the admins
            about approvals is not worth my time. If they want the sport to flourish,
            they better figure out who the customer is and start providing a service. I
            don't pay my hard earned money to receive form letters and BS reasons for
            non-approval. I get that everyday at the office.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <web-ling@...>
            To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:24 AM
            Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
            Geocaching.com's existence


            > There's a delicate balance between the demands of the geocaching
            > community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and the need to make
            > cache approval as simple as possible and allowing "creative" caches.
            >
            > My biggest complaints are that:
            >
            > 1. There are standards the approvers use to approve/disapprove caches
            > that aren't listed, and
            >
            > 2. The standards are not applied consistently by all approvers.
            >
            > Erik "erik88l-r" seems to be the most prolific cache approver, and he
            > also seems to have a strong dislike of virtual caches. I've had
            > several questioned by him. I do have to give him credit for the fact
            > that in each case, he has been willing to work with me to clarify
            > issues, and has eventually approved each of them. It was a hassle,
            > but they eventually did get approved.
            >
            > The options I see:
            >
            > 1. Lobby Jeremy to get ALL standards posted on the website, and to
            > have ALL approvers apply ONLY the POSTED standards.
            >
            > 2. When a cache is rejected, do what you can to answer the issues
            > raised. Be willing to modify cache pages or provide evidence to
            > support the validity of the cache.
            >
            > 3. If it's still not approved, post the specifics in the forums,
            > and "poll the audience", the appeal straight to Jeremy.
            >
            > 4. You can always post it on Navicache.com
            >
            > I don't think Geocaching.com will go away any time soon. If the do,
            > there are other sites.
            >
            > I'm sorry to see anyone quit the game because geocaching.com is going
            > through some major growing pains. Stick with it, and do what you can
            > to help us all through the problems. Most of the restrictions have
            > come about due to the strong community opinions on the forums. Voice
            > your opinion in a positive way on the forums. Voice it often. As
            > they say, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." If pendulum of
            > community opinion can be swayed in a different direction, I'm
            > confident Jeremy et al will respond.
            >
            > Rich Wendling
            > aka Web-ling
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
            ... might ... AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin. It includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for difficulty and
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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              --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
              <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
              > I think
              > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
              > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
              > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I
              might
              > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.

              AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin. It
              includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
              difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
              that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes the
              ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.

              What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
              experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
              enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another site to
              log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that issue,
              but I'm not very confident that will work out.

              Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
              interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log finds,
              rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your caches
              with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city level
              (something that Buxley's can not do).

              Robert
              a.k.a. Austin Explorer
            • The Diver
              While your here, What does this mean? ... Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer view. ADODB.Recordset error 800a0bcd Either BOF or
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                While your here, What does this mean?

                >From Map Caches:

                Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer view.


                ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'

                Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been deleted.
                Requested operation requires a current record.

                /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355




                On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                > > I think
                > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
                > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
                > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I
                > might
                > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                >
                > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin. It
                > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes the
                > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                >
                > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another site to
                > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that issue,
                > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                >
                > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log finds,
                > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your caches
                > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city level
                > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                >
                > Robert
                > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
                Oh, I forgot to mention that Austin Explorer also has an auto-confirm capability for virtuals. Any cache owner can set up the system to get the answer from a
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                  Oh, I forgot to mention that Austin Explorer also has an auto-confirm
                  capability for virtuals. Any cache owner can set up the system to
                  get the answer from a finder and email the owner. The email
                  indicates the correct answer AND includes the geocaching.com user
                  name so that the owner can both confirm the answer AND WHO answered
                  the question. Other auto-confirm systems I've seen did not ask for
                  the user name, so the owner has no way of knowing that a given
                  geocaching.com log corresponds with a correct answer.

                  For my virtuals it's fairly easy to match up emails (one from
                  AustinExplorer.com and one from geocaching.com) and thus know that a
                  geocaching.com log is valid.

                  If you have a virtual in the Austin area and want the virtual to be
                  auto-confirmed, let me know. I'll set it up.

                  Robert

                  --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert <robert@a...>"
                  <robert@a...> wrote:
                  > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                  > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                  > > I think
                  > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great
                  thing.
                  > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to
                  check
                  > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I
                  > might
                  > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                  >
                  > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin.
                  It
                  > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                  > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                  > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                  the
                  > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                  >
                  > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                  > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                  > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another site
                  to
                  > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that
                  issue,
                  > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                  >
                  > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                  > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log finds,
                  > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your
                  caches
                  > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city level
                  > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                  >
                  > Robert
                  > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
                  Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on? Robert ... view. ... deleted. ... thing. ... check ... I ... Austin. It ... website ... the ... site
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                    Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on?

                    Robert

                    --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                    <thediver@a...> wrote:
                    > While your here, What does this mean?
                    >
                    > >From Map Caches:
                    >
                    > Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer
                    view.
                    >
                    >
                    > ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'
                    >
                    > Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been
                    deleted.
                    > Requested operation requires a current record.
                    >
                    > /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                    > > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                    > > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                    > > > I think
                    > > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great
                    thing.
                    > > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to
                    check
                    > > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that
                    I
                    > > might
                    > > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                    > >
                    > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of
                    Austin. It
                    > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                    > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven
                    website
                    > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                    the
                    > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                    > >
                    > > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                    > > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                    > > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another
                    site to
                    > > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that
                    issue,
                    > > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                    > >
                    > > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                    > > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log
                    finds,
                    > > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your
                    caches
                    > > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city
                    level
                    > > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                    > >
                    > > Robert
                    > > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                  • The Diver
                    http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/ Clicked on the big picture that said Map Caches .
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                      http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/

                      Clicked on the big picture that said "Map Caches".

                      On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:49, Robert wrote:
                      > Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on?
                      >
                      > Robert
                      >
                      > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                      > <thediver@a...> wrote:
                      > > While your here, What does this mean?
                      > >
                      > > >From Map Caches:
                      > >
                      > > Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer
                      > view.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'
                      > >
                      > > Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been
                      > deleted.
                      > > Requested operation requires a current record.
                      > >
                      > > /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                      > > > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                      > > > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > I think
                      > > > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great
                      > thing.
                      > > > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to
                      > check
                      > > > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that
                      > I
                      > > > might
                      > > > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                      > > >
                      > > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of
                      > Austin. It
                      > > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                      > > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven
                      > website
                      > > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                      > the
                      > > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                      > > >
                      > > > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                      > > > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                      > > > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another
                      > site to
                      > > > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that
                      > issue,
                      > > > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                      > > >
                      > > > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                      > > > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log
                      > finds,
                      > > > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your
                      > caches
                      > > > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city
                      > level
                      > > > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                      > > >
                      > > > Robert
                      > > > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
                      Hmmm... I just tried that and did not receive an error. Has anyone else tried it? At the very least I can work on the page to capture the error and retry,
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                        Hmmm... I just tried that and did not receive an error. Has anyone
                        else tried it?

                        At the very least I can work on the page to capture the error and
                        retry, but right now I'm not seeing it.

                        Robert

                        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                        <thediver@a...> wrote:
                        > http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/
                        >
                        > Clicked on the big picture that said "Map Caches".
                        >
                        > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:49, Robert wrote:
                        > > Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on?
                        > >
                        > > Robert
                        > >
                        > > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                        > > <thediver@a...> wrote:
                        > > > While your here, What does this mean?
                        > > >
                        > > > >From Map Caches:
                        > > >
                        > > > Click on an icon for more information or a region for a
                        closer
                        > > view.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'
                        > > >
                        > > > Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been
                        > > deleted.
                        > > > Requested operation requires a current record.
                        > > >
                        > > > /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                        > > > > --- In
                        CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                        > > > > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > > I think
                        > > > > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a
                        great
                        > > thing.
                        > > > > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while
                        to
                        > > check
                        > > > > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website
                        that
                        > > I
                        > > > > might
                        > > > > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of
                        > > Austin. It
                        > > > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                        > > > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven
                        > > website
                        > > > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also
                        includes
                        > > the
                        > > > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak
                        from
                        > > > > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys
                        an
                        > > > > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another
                        > > site to
                        > > > > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of
                        that
                        > > issue,
                        > > > > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm
                        always
                        > > > > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log
                        > > finds,
                        > > > > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map
                        your
                        > > caches
                        > > > > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city
                        > > level
                        > > > > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Robert
                        > > > > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
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                      • Rich Wendling <web-ling@flash.net>
                        ... It ... the ... Would you have the capability of allowing cachers to CREATE and LIST caches on AustinExplorer.com instead of on Geocaching.com? What would
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                          > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin.
                          It
                          > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                          > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                          > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                          the
                          > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.

                          Would you have the capability of allowing cachers to CREATE and LIST
                          caches on AustinExplorer.com instead of on Geocaching.com? What
                          would be great is a world-wide website with links to caches on
                          geocaching.com, navicache.com, and others (like Buxley's) PLUS the
                          ability to create cache listings directly on the site (unlike
                          Buxley's).

                          I'd like the idea of expanding state-wide! Please feel free to list
                          all of my North Texas caches!

                          Rich Wendling
                          aka Web-ling
                        • angryarmadillo <angryarmadillo@yahoo.com>
                          ... I think that d be great too. I think you re puling data from Navicache but I m not sure. If I could create cache listings at austinexplorer.com I d do it.
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                            --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wendling
                            <web-ling@f...>" <web-ling@f...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin.
                            > It
                            > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                            > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                            > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                            > the
                            > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                            >
                            > Would you have the capability of allowing cachers to CREATE and LIST
                            > caches on AustinExplorer.com instead of on Geocaching.com?
                            >
                            > I'd like the idea of expanding state-wide! Please feel free to list
                            > all of my North Texas caches!
                            >

                            I think that'd be great too. I think you're puling data from Navicache
                            but I'm not sure. If I could create cache listings at
                            austinexplorer.com I'd do it. I'd rather not duplicate efforts. If
                            someone has already got most of the infrastructure in place I'd be
                            happy to volunteer to help out.

                            Tony from Team Bohica
                          • Ken Mikolaj
                            I agree. We are past the point where more of the simple ammo-box-in-the-woods are needed. There are more than enough of those. We need to move towards more
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                              I agree. We are past the point where more of the
                              simple ammo-box-in-the-woods are needed. There are
                              more than enough of those.

                              We need to move towards more challanging multi-cahces
                              and interesting virtual caches.


                              --- "Rich Wendling <web-ling@...>"
                              <web-ling@...> wrote:
                              > There's a delicate balance between the demands of
                              > the geocaching
                              > community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and
                              > the need to make
                              > cache approval as simple as possible and allowing
                              > "creative" caches.
                              >

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                            • Ken Mikolaj
                              Um...why is this troubling ? ... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                Um...why is this "troubling"?


                                --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > In addition, I find it troubling that there seems to
                                > be no interest in
                                > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                >

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                              • David Gahagan
                                Not that I don t agree, but keep in mind that those new to the sport will be wanting to hide just such a cache. Getting them involved and keeping them
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                  Not that I don't agree, but keep in mind that those new to the sport will be
                                  wanting to hide just such a cache. Getting them involved and keeping them
                                  interested is the only way this sport will survive. Telling them their
                                  cache location/choice sucks will only run them off and kill our sport. The
                                  old timers need to take the new comers out and help them learn the sport.


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                  To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:55 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
                                  Geocaching.com's existence


                                  > I agree. We are past the point where more of the
                                  > simple ammo-box-in-the-woods are needed. There are
                                  > more than enough of those.
                                  >
                                  > We need to move towards more challanging multi-cahces
                                  > and interesting virtual caches.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- "Rich Wendling <web-ling@...>"
                                  > <web-ling@...> wrote:
                                  > > There's a delicate balance between the demands of
                                  > > the geocaching
                                  > > community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and
                                  > > the need to make
                                  > > cache approval as simple as possible and allowing
                                  > > "creative" caches.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________________
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                                  > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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                                  >
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                                  > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                • David Gahagan
                                  Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get involved in our sport, but can t because there are very few wheel chair accessible caches. ... From: Ken
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                    Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get involved in our sport, but
                                    can't because there are very few wheel chair accessible caches.


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                    To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
                                    Geocaching.com's existence


                                    > Um...why is this "troubling"?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > In addition, I find it troubling that there seems to
                                    > > be no interest in
                                    > > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                    > >
                                    >
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                                  • Ken Mikolaj
                                    Well, duh. I think I know that. I asked why it was troubling . If you are in a wheel chair, it s a fact of life that you are limited in some things you can &
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                      Well, duh. I think I know that.

                                      I asked why it was "troubling".

                                      If you are in a wheel chair, it's a fact of life that
                                      you are limited in some things you can & can't do.
                                      If someone wants to set up chair-friendly caches, then
                                      fine. But, "troubling"? I won't be losing any sleep
                                      over it.



                                      --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                      > Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get
                                      > involved in our sport, but
                                      > can't because there are very few wheel chair
                                      > accessible caches.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                      > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache
                                      > approval/disapproval and
                                      > Geocaching.com's existence
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > Um...why is this "troubling"?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > In addition, I find it troubling that there
                                      > seems to
                                      > > > be no interest in
                                      > > > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > __________________________________________________
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                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


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                                    • Diann Black
                                      I have to say as a cacher I think that is very insensitive of you to say that cache are for all and yes I agree that cache in the woods are not easy for wheel
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                        I have to say as a cacher I think that is very insensitive of you to say that cache are for all and yes I agree that cache in the woods are not easy for wheel chair people there are a lot of others that they can do that are not being approved is the point this person was making.

                                        Just because you are not a handicap person you should not be so rude to them.

                                        I think most people here are complaining too much. Geocaching will always be there and for those who don't like the way its run on geocaching.com find another place to go and stop complaining.

                                         Ken Mikolaj <stars_fan_2001@...> wrote:

                                        Well, duh.  I think I know that. 

                                        I asked why it was "troubling".

                                        If you are in a wheel chair, it's a fact of life that
                                        you are limited in some things you can & can't do.
                                        If someone wants to set up chair-friendly caches, then
                                        fine.  But, "troubling"?  I won't be losing any sleep
                                        over it.



                                        --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                        > Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get
                                        > involved in our sport, but
                                        > can't because there are very few wheel chair
                                        > accessible caches.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                        > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache
                                        > approval/disapproval and
                                        > Geocaching.com's existence
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Um...why is this "troubling"?
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                        > >  >
                                        > > > In addition, I find it troubling that there
                                        > seems to
                                        > > > be no interest in
                                        > > > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > __________________________________________________
                                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
                                        > now.
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                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


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