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Cache approval/disapproval and Geocaching.com's existence

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  • Candy Lind <candylind@email.com>
    The discussion thread in question can be found by following these links in the forum area: Geocaching Home » Groundspeak Forums » General » Any else getting
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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      The discussion thread in question can be found by following these
      links in the forum area:
      Geocaching Home » Groundspeak Forums » General » Any else getting of
      the stupid placement hoops

      "Would you like some cheese with that whine?" I agree with the others
      on the GroundSpeak forum that I have not seen any constructive
      criticism or suggestions come from your emails, FireCacher.
      Geocaching is bound to have some growing pains at the cataclysmic
      rate with which it is gaining popularity. Part of that is the
      decision-making process behind what caches are approved. I'm not sure
      why you had trouble getting your cache approved, but there are appeal
      levels that are easy enough to make ... delivering more info to the
      approver being first, then a survey on the discussion pages, then a
      direct appeal to Jeremy. Yes, he still answers his own mail.

      As for whether the site will be around, I really have no fear that it
      will go away. If Jeremy for some reason decided he were outta there,
      it would be a simple matter to find a buyer for the whole kit and
      kaboodle. It has too much potential as closely tied to GIS as it is.
      And if it actually did close, hundreds of other sites would pick up
      where he left off, probably competing until a small handful of the
      best were left. There are too many people involved for it to simply
      die.

      I hope everyone has a Happy 2003 and finds (and places!) all the
      caches they can muster! Now I have two caches to research on this
      glorious sunny day ...

      Happy Trails,
      Candy
    • Rich Wendling <web-ling@flash.net>
      There s a delicate balance between the demands of the geocaching community to reduce the number of lame caches and the need to make cache approval as simple
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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        There's a delicate balance between the demands of the geocaching
        community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and the need to make
        cache approval as simple as possible and allowing "creative" caches.

        My biggest complaints are that:

        1. There are standards the approvers use to approve/disapprove caches
        that aren't listed, and

        2. The standards are not applied consistently by all approvers.

        Erik "erik88l-r" seems to be the most prolific cache approver, and he
        also seems to have a strong dislike of virtual caches. I've had
        several questioned by him. I do have to give him credit for the fact
        that in each case, he has been willing to work with me to clarify
        issues, and has eventually approved each of them. It was a hassle,
        but they eventually did get approved.

        The options I see:

        1. Lobby Jeremy to get ALL standards posted on the website, and to
        have ALL approvers apply ONLY the POSTED standards.

        2. When a cache is rejected, do what you can to answer the issues
        raised. Be willing to modify cache pages or provide evidence to
        support the validity of the cache.

        3. If it's still not approved, post the specifics in the forums,
        and "poll the audience", the appeal straight to Jeremy.

        4. You can always post it on Navicache.com

        I don't think Geocaching.com will go away any time soon. If the do,
        there are other sites.

        I'm sorry to see anyone quit the game because geocaching.com is going
        through some major growing pains. Stick with it, and do what you can
        to help us all through the problems. Most of the restrictions have
        come about due to the strong community opinions on the forums. Voice
        your opinion in a positive way on the forums. Voice it often. As
        they say, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." If pendulum of
        community opinion can be swayed in a different direction, I'm
        confident Jeremy et al will respond.

        Rich Wendling
        aka Web-ling
      • angryarmadillo <angryarmadillo@yahoo.com>
        ... This is where all my new caches are going and the only place they are going. They are _my_ caches, not geocaching.com s. They might get less visitors but
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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          --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wendling
          <web-ling@f...>" <web-ling@f...> wrote:

          > 4. You can always post it on Navicache.com
          >
          This is where all my new caches are going and the only place they are
          going. They are _my_ caches, not geocaching.com's. They might get less
          visitors but who cares. If I want to place a cache on my front lawn,
          that's my business. No one makes anybody go to any cache. I think
          adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
          That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
          it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I might
          try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site. Jeremy and friends
          aren't going to listen to people's concerns until they are forced to
          by competition. Hit them where it hurts, their pocketbook. Take your
          toys elsewhere. Navicache has already stated they will participate in
          an open source type geocaching database. I think I'll play with them
          because they seem to want to play with me.

          See you on the trails,
          Tony of Team Bohica
        • David Gahagan
          Go Tony... Maybe a rating system at the cache level would be a nice feature. What I m thinking is something where those that are logging a find can rate the
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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            Go Tony... Maybe a rating system at the cache level would be a nice
            feature. What I'm thinking is something where those that are logging a find
            can rate the cache on a scale from 1 to 5 or something. Much like the
            freeware sites allow ratings or epinions.com allows ratings.

            Also someone mentioned Buxley's, how is their site?

            Thanks
            FireCacher


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <angryarmadillo@...>
            To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:52 AM
            Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
            Geocaching.com's existence


            > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wendling
            > <web-ling@f...>" <web-ling@f...> wrote:
            >
            > > 4. You can always post it on Navicache.com
            > >
            > This is where all my new caches are going and the only place they are
            > going. They are _my_ caches, not geocaching.com's. They might get less
            > visitors but who cares. If I want to place a cache on my front lawn,
            > that's my business. No one makes anybody go to any cache. I think
            > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
            > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
            > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I might
            > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site. Jeremy and friends
            > aren't going to listen to people's concerns until they are forced to
            > by competition. Hit them where it hurts, their pocketbook. Take your
            > toys elsewhere. Navicache has already stated they will participate in
            > an open source type geocaching database. I think I'll play with them
            > because they seem to want to play with me.
            >
            > See you on the trails,
            > Tony of Team Bohica
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • David Gahagan
            Rich, thanks for your support. These are the exact issues I am talking about and have mentioned in the post in the thread, and that you have mentioned more
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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              Rich, thanks for your support. These are the exact issues I am talking
              about and have mentioned in the post in the thread, and that you have
              mentioned more than once.

              In addition, I find it troubling that there seems to be no interest in
              creating caches that are handicapped accessible.

              It also interesting that Jeremy has had nothing to say.

              I'm done with geocaching.com for now. I had several other (what I thought)
              were great cache locations in my area (east of Austin), but I see no reason
              to put forth any effort to get them hidden. And yes they were mostly
              virtuals to add to my Chainsaw Massacre series. The childish remarks like
              "why don't you go find more caches then come back and make your comments
              since you've only found 6", and the like have completely turned me off.
              This sport is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. Arguing with the admins
              about approvals is not worth my time. If they want the sport to flourish,
              they better figure out who the customer is and start providing a service. I
              don't pay my hard earned money to receive form letters and BS reasons for
              non-approval. I get that everyday at the office.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <web-ling@...>
              To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:24 AM
              Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
              Geocaching.com's existence


              > There's a delicate balance between the demands of the geocaching
              > community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and the need to make
              > cache approval as simple as possible and allowing "creative" caches.
              >
              > My biggest complaints are that:
              >
              > 1. There are standards the approvers use to approve/disapprove caches
              > that aren't listed, and
              >
              > 2. The standards are not applied consistently by all approvers.
              >
              > Erik "erik88l-r" seems to be the most prolific cache approver, and he
              > also seems to have a strong dislike of virtual caches. I've had
              > several questioned by him. I do have to give him credit for the fact
              > that in each case, he has been willing to work with me to clarify
              > issues, and has eventually approved each of them. It was a hassle,
              > but they eventually did get approved.
              >
              > The options I see:
              >
              > 1. Lobby Jeremy to get ALL standards posted on the website, and to
              > have ALL approvers apply ONLY the POSTED standards.
              >
              > 2. When a cache is rejected, do what you can to answer the issues
              > raised. Be willing to modify cache pages or provide evidence to
              > support the validity of the cache.
              >
              > 3. If it's still not approved, post the specifics in the forums,
              > and "poll the audience", the appeal straight to Jeremy.
              >
              > 4. You can always post it on Navicache.com
              >
              > I don't think Geocaching.com will go away any time soon. If the do,
              > there are other sites.
              >
              > I'm sorry to see anyone quit the game because geocaching.com is going
              > through some major growing pains. Stick with it, and do what you can
              > to help us all through the problems. Most of the restrictions have
              > come about due to the strong community opinions on the forums. Voice
              > your opinion in a positive way on the forums. Voice it often. As
              > they say, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." If pendulum of
              > community opinion can be swayed in a different direction, I'm
              > confident Jeremy et al will respond.
              >
              > Rich Wendling
              > aka Web-ling
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
              ... might ... AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin. It includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for difficulty and
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                > I think
                > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
                > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
                > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I
                might
                > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.

                AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin. It
                includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes the
                ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.

                What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another site to
                log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that issue,
                but I'm not very confident that will work out.

                Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log finds,
                rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your caches
                with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city level
                (something that Buxley's can not do).

                Robert
                a.k.a. Austin Explorer
              • The Diver
                While your here, What does this mean? ... Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer view. ADODB.Recordset error 800a0bcd Either BOF or
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                  While your here, What does this mean?

                  >From Map Caches:

                  Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer view.


                  ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'

                  Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been deleted.
                  Requested operation requires a current record.

                  /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355




                  On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                  > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                  > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                  > > I think
                  > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great thing.
                  > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to check
                  > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I
                  > might
                  > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                  >
                  > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin. It
                  > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                  > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                  > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes the
                  > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                  >
                  > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                  > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                  > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another site to
                  > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that issue,
                  > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                  >
                  > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                  > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log finds,
                  > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your caches
                  > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city level
                  > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                  >
                  > Robert
                  > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
                  Oh, I forgot to mention that Austin Explorer also has an auto-confirm capability for virtuals. Any cache owner can set up the system to get the answer from a
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                    Oh, I forgot to mention that Austin Explorer also has an auto-confirm
                    capability for virtuals. Any cache owner can set up the system to
                    get the answer from a finder and email the owner. The email
                    indicates the correct answer AND includes the geocaching.com user
                    name so that the owner can both confirm the answer AND WHO answered
                    the question. Other auto-confirm systems I've seen did not ask for
                    the user name, so the owner has no way of knowing that a given
                    geocaching.com log corresponds with a correct answer.

                    For my virtuals it's fairly easy to match up emails (one from
                    AustinExplorer.com and one from geocaching.com) and thus know that a
                    geocaching.com log is valid.

                    If you have a virtual in the Austin area and want the virtual to be
                    auto-confirmed, let me know. I'll set it up.

                    Robert

                    --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert <robert@a...>"
                    <robert@a...> wrote:
                    > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                    > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                    > > I think
                    > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great
                    thing.
                    > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to
                    check
                    > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that I
                    > might
                    > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                    >
                    > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin.
                    It
                    > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                    > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                    > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                    the
                    > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                    >
                    > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                    > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                    > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another site
                    to
                    > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that
                    issue,
                    > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                    >
                    > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                    > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log finds,
                    > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your
                    caches
                    > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city level
                    > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                    >
                    > Robert
                    > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                  • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
                    Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on? Robert ... view. ... deleted. ... thing. ... check ... I ... Austin. It ... website ... the ... site
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                      Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on?

                      Robert

                      --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                      <thediver@a...> wrote:
                      > While your here, What does this mean?
                      >
                      > >From Map Caches:
                      >
                      > Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer
                      view.
                      >
                      >
                      > ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'
                      >
                      > Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been
                      deleted.
                      > Requested operation requires a current record.
                      >
                      > /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                      > > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                      > > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                      > > > I think
                      > > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great
                      thing.
                      > > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to
                      check
                      > > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that
                      I
                      > > might
                      > > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                      > >
                      > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of
                      Austin. It
                      > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                      > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven
                      website
                      > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                      the
                      > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                      > >
                      > > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                      > > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                      > > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another
                      site to
                      > > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that
                      issue,
                      > > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                      > >
                      > > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                      > > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log
                      finds,
                      > > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your
                      caches
                      > > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city
                      level
                      > > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                      > >
                      > > Robert
                      > > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                    • The Diver
                      http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/ Clicked on the big picture that said Map Caches .
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                        http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/

                        Clicked on the big picture that said "Map Caches".

                        On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:49, Robert wrote:
                        > Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on?
                        >
                        > Robert
                        >
                        > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                        > <thediver@a...> wrote:
                        > > While your here, What does this mean?
                        > >
                        > > >From Map Caches:
                        > >
                        > > Click on an icon for more information or a region for a closer
                        > view.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'
                        > >
                        > > Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been
                        > deleted.
                        > > Requested operation requires a current record.
                        > >
                        > > /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                        > > > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                        > > > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > I think
                        > > > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a great
                        > thing.
                        > > > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while to
                        > check
                        > > > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website that
                        > I
                        > > > might
                        > > > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                        > > >
                        > > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of
                        > Austin. It
                        > > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                        > > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven
                        > website
                        > > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                        > the
                        > > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                        > > >
                        > > > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak from
                        > > > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys an
                        > > > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another
                        > site to
                        > > > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of that
                        > issue,
                        > > > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                        > > >
                        > > > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm always
                        > > > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log
                        > finds,
                        > > > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map your
                        > caches
                        > > > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city
                        > level
                        > > > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                        > > >
                        > > > Robert
                        > > > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Robert <robert@austinexplorer.com>
                        Hmmm... I just tried that and did not receive an error. Has anyone else tried it? At the very least I can work on the page to capture the error and retry,
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                          Hmmm... I just tried that and did not receive an error. Has anyone
                          else tried it?

                          At the very least I can work on the page to capture the error and
                          retry, but right now I'm not seeing it.

                          Robert

                          --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                          <thediver@a...> wrote:
                          > http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/
                          >
                          > Clicked on the big picture that said "Map Caches".
                          >
                          > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:49, Robert wrote:
                          > > Ack! What URL were you at and what were you clicking on?
                          > >
                          > > Robert
                          > >
                          > > --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, The Diver
                          > > <thediver@a...> wrote:
                          > > > While your here, What does this mean?
                          > > >
                          > > > >From Map Caches:
                          > > >
                          > > > Click on an icon for more information or a region for a
                          closer
                          > > view.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bcd'
                          > > >
                          > > > Either BOF or EOF is True, or the current record has been
                          > > deleted.
                          > > > Requested operation requires a current record.
                          > > >
                          > > > /Maps/ShowMap.asp, line 355
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > On Wed, 2003-01-01 at 14:40, Robert wrote:
                          > > > > --- In
                          CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "angryarmadillo
                          > > > > <angryarmadillo@y...>" <angryarmadillo@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > > I think
                          > > > > > adding a voting system to a caching website would be a
                          great
                          > > thing.
                          > > > > > That way you'd get an idea of whether it's worth your while
                          to
                          > > check
                          > > > > > it out. I've already started on my own geocaching website
                          that
                          > > I
                          > > > > might
                          > > > > > try to expand into a Texas-wide geocaching site.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of
                          > > Austin. It
                          > > > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                          > > > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven
                          > > website
                          > > > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also
                          includes
                          > > the
                          > > > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > What it is missing is a larger number of users. I can speak
                          from
                          > > > > experience that the market maker (i.e. geocaching.com) enjoys
                          an
                          > > > > enormous mindshare. People tend to not want to go to another
                          > > site to
                          > > > > log finds. An "open source" system would resolve much of
                          that
                          > > issue,
                          > > > > but I'm not very confident that will work out.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Check out http://www.austinexplorer.com/geocaching/. I'm
                          always
                          > > > > interested in ideas for improvements. Right now you can log
                          > > finds,
                          > > > > rate the caches, look at cache stats for the area AND map
                          your
                          > > caches
                          > > > > with finds highlighted on maps that can zoom down to sub-city
                          > > level
                          > > > > (something that Buxley's can not do).
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Robert
                          > > > > a.k.a. Austin Explorer
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                        • Rich Wendling <web-ling@flash.net>
                          ... It ... the ... Would you have the capability of allowing cachers to CREATE and LIST caches on AustinExplorer.com instead of on Geocaching.com? What would
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                            > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin.
                            It
                            > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                            > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                            > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                            the
                            > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.

                            Would you have the capability of allowing cachers to CREATE and LIST
                            caches on AustinExplorer.com instead of on Geocaching.com? What
                            would be great is a world-wide website with links to caches on
                            geocaching.com, navicache.com, and others (like Buxley's) PLUS the
                            ability to create cache listings directly on the site (unlike
                            Buxley's).

                            I'd like the idea of expanding state-wide! Please feel free to list
                            all of my North Texas caches!

                            Rich Wendling
                            aka Web-ling
                          • angryarmadillo <angryarmadillo@yahoo.com>
                            ... I think that d be great too. I think you re puling data from Navicache but I m not sure. If I could create cache listings at austinexplorer.com I d do it.
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 1, 2003
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                              --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wendling
                              <web-ling@f...>" <web-ling@f...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > AustinExplorer.com covers caches within about 60 miles of Austin.
                              > It
                              > > includes the ability for cache finders to rate the cache for
                              > > difficulty and terrain. It's a completely database-driven website
                              > > that could easily scale up to the state level. It also includes
                              > the
                              > > ability to cover both geocaching.com and navicache.com caches.
                              >
                              > Would you have the capability of allowing cachers to CREATE and LIST
                              > caches on AustinExplorer.com instead of on Geocaching.com?
                              >
                              > I'd like the idea of expanding state-wide! Please feel free to list
                              > all of my North Texas caches!
                              >

                              I think that'd be great too. I think you're puling data from Navicache
                              but I'm not sure. If I could create cache listings at
                              austinexplorer.com I'd do it. I'd rather not duplicate efforts. If
                              someone has already got most of the infrastructure in place I'd be
                              happy to volunteer to help out.

                              Tony from Team Bohica
                            • Ken Mikolaj
                              I agree. We are past the point where more of the simple ammo-box-in-the-woods are needed. There are more than enough of those. We need to move towards more
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                I agree. We are past the point where more of the
                                simple ammo-box-in-the-woods are needed. There are
                                more than enough of those.

                                We need to move towards more challanging multi-cahces
                                and interesting virtual caches.


                                --- "Rich Wendling <web-ling@...>"
                                <web-ling@...> wrote:
                                > There's a delicate balance between the demands of
                                > the geocaching
                                > community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and
                                > the need to make
                                > cache approval as simple as possible and allowing
                                > "creative" caches.
                                >

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                              • Ken Mikolaj
                                Um...why is this troubling ? ... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                  Um...why is this "troubling"?


                                  --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > In addition, I find it troubling that there seems to
                                  > be no interest in
                                  > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                  >

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                                • David Gahagan
                                  Not that I don t agree, but keep in mind that those new to the sport will be wanting to hide just such a cache. Getting them involved and keeping them
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                    Not that I don't agree, but keep in mind that those new to the sport will be
                                    wanting to hide just such a cache. Getting them involved and keeping them
                                    interested is the only way this sport will survive. Telling them their
                                    cache location/choice sucks will only run them off and kill our sport. The
                                    old timers need to take the new comers out and help them learn the sport.


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                    To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:55 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
                                    Geocaching.com's existence


                                    > I agree. We are past the point where more of the
                                    > simple ammo-box-in-the-woods are needed. There are
                                    > more than enough of those.
                                    >
                                    > We need to move towards more challanging multi-cahces
                                    > and interesting virtual caches.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- "Rich Wendling <web-ling@...>"
                                    > <web-ling@...> wrote:
                                    > > There's a delicate balance between the demands of
                                    > > the geocaching
                                    > > community to reduce the number of "lame caches" and
                                    > > the need to make
                                    > > cache approval as simple as possible and allowing
                                    > > "creative" caches.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > __________________________________________________
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                                    > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                                    > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • David Gahagan
                                    Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get involved in our sport, but can t because there are very few wheel chair accessible caches. ... From: Ken
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                      Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get involved in our sport, but
                                      can't because there are very few wheel chair accessible caches.


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                      To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache approval/disapproval and
                                      Geocaching.com's existence


                                      > Um...why is this "troubling"?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > In addition, I find it troubling that there seems to
                                      > > be no interest in
                                      > > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > __________________________________________________
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                                      > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                                      > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                                      >
                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Ken Mikolaj
                                      Well, duh. I think I know that. I asked why it was troubling . If you are in a wheel chair, it s a fact of life that you are limited in some things you can &
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                        Well, duh. I think I know that.

                                        I asked why it was "troubling".

                                        If you are in a wheel chair, it's a fact of life that
                                        you are limited in some things you can & can't do.
                                        If someone wants to set up chair-friendly caches, then
                                        fine. But, "troubling"? I won't be losing any sleep
                                        over it.



                                        --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                        > Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get
                                        > involved in our sport, but
                                        > can't because there are very few wheel chair
                                        > accessible caches.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                        > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache
                                        > approval/disapproval and
                                        > Geocaching.com's existence
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Um...why is this "troubling"?
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In addition, I find it troubling that there
                                        > seems to
                                        > > > be no interest in
                                        > > > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > > __________________________________________________
                                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
                                        > now.
                                        > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                                        > >
                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


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                                      • Diann Black
                                        I have to say as a cacher I think that is very insensitive of you to say that cache are for all and yes I agree that cache in the woods are not easy for wheel
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                          I have to say as a cacher I think that is very insensitive of you to say that cache are for all and yes I agree that cache in the woods are not easy for wheel chair people there are a lot of others that they can do that are not being approved is the point this person was making.

                                          Just because you are not a handicap person you should not be so rude to them.

                                          I think most people here are complaining too much. Geocaching will always be there and for those who don't like the way its run on geocaching.com find another place to go and stop complaining.

                                           Ken Mikolaj <stars_fan_2001@...> wrote:

                                          Well, duh.  I think I know that. 

                                          I asked why it was "troubling".

                                          If you are in a wheel chair, it's a fact of life that
                                          you are limited in some things you can & can't do.
                                          If someone wants to set up chair-friendly caches, then
                                          fine.  But, "troubling"?  I won't be losing any sleep
                                          over it.



                                          --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                          > Others not so nimble as us youngsters want to get
                                          > involved in our sport, but
                                          > can't because there are very few wheel chair
                                          > accessible caches.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
                                          > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:05 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Cache
                                          > approval/disapproval and
                                          > Geocaching.com's existence
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > Um...why is this "troubling"?
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
                                          > >  >
                                          > > > In addition, I find it troubling that there
                                          > seems to
                                          > > > be no interest in
                                          > > > creating caches that are handicapped accessible.
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > __________________________________________________
                                          > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                          > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
                                          > now.
                                          > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                                          > >
                                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > CentralTexasGeocachers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


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