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Emma Long Park

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  • Brent
    Yikes! This has the potential to cause some problems for cachers, at least in the posted areas of Emma Long Park. I posted a photo of the signs to watch out
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Yikes! This has the potential to cause some problems for cachers, at
      least in the posted areas of Emma Long Park. I posted a photo of the
      signs to watch out for in the photos section.
      http://tinyurl.com/dp3ft

      Yes that is correct, no off-trail hiking is allowed and that is a
      year-round restriction. Bikes and motorcycles are restricted to
      special use area within the park. The intent is to protect the
      habitat and natural resources year-round.



      Thank you for your inquiry.



      Donald L. Koehler, Ph.D.

      Austin Water Utility

      Senior Biologist, BCP Program

      3635 RR 620 South (Reicher Ranch)

      Austin, Texas 78738-6807

      512-263-6431 (Office)

      512-263-1276 (Fax)




      ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----------


      Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:52 AM
      To: don.koehler@...
      Subject: Emma Long Park and BCCP



      Hello!



      On your website http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/access.htm it
      states that Emma Long park is open to hiking, mountain biking, and
      motorcycling. However at some points along the trail signs such as
      those in the included attachment state that it is an endangered
      species habitat and that you must stay on marked trails. Does that
      mean that no off-trail hiking is allowed, and if so, is that year-
      round on only when the Golden Cheeked Warbler is in the area?
    • Brent
      I see now that my link to the photos doesn t work, but you can see it in the Photos section. ... Below is the reply to an inquiry I made to try to help clarify
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
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        I see now that my link to the photos doesn't work, but you can see it in the Photos section.

        --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Brent" <brbapb@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Yikes! This has the potential to cause some problems for cachers, at
        > least in the posted areas of Emma Long Park. I posted a photo of the
        > signs to watch out for in the photos section.
        > http://tinyurl.com/dp3ft

        Below is the reply to an inquiry I made to try to help clarify this...
        >
        > Yes that is correct, no off-trail hiking is allowed and that is a
        > year-round restriction. Bikes and motorcycles are restricted to
        > special use area within the park. The intent is to protect the
        > habitat and natural resources year-round.
        >
        >
        >
        > Thank you for your inquiry.
        >
        >
        >
        > Donald L. Koehler, Ph.D.
        >
        > Austin Water Utility
        >
        > Senior Biologist, BCP Program
        >
        > 3635 RR 620 South (Reicher Ranch)
        >
        > Austin, Texas 78738-6807
        >
        > 512-263-6431 (Office)
        >
        > 512-263-1276 (Fax)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        > -----------
        >
        >
        > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:52 AM
        > To: don.koehler@c...
        > Subject: Emma Long Park and BCCP
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello!
        >
        >
        >
        > On your website http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/access.htm it
        > states that Emma Long park is open to hiking, mountain biking, and
        > motorcycling. However at some points along the trail signs such as
        > those in the included attachment state that it is an endangered
        > species habitat and that you must stay on marked trails. Does that
        > mean that no off-trail hiking is allowed, and if so, is that year-
        > round on only when the Golden Cheeked Warbler is in the area?
        >

      • Candy Lind
        Does anyone in this group have prior knowledge of this stay on the trail rule in Emma Long? I certainly don t, nor can I say I have ever seen ONE of the
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
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          Does anyone in this group have prior knowledge of this "stay on the
          trail" rule in Emma Long? I certainly don't, nor can I say I have
          ever seen ONE of the signs that Brent posted. How long can it be til
          they do the same thing in Barton Creek greenbelt and Gus Fruh? Those
          little signs basically make every single cache in Emma Long park
          ILLEGAL.

          I think we should try to have a meeting with the PARD, Travis County,
          and BCCP folks to clarify what has happened in the last 6 months and
          what is planned for the next 2 to 5 years. I feel like we're having
          the rug pulled out from under us.

          Rob, do you know anything about other BCCP plans, such as future
          preserve lands in work with LCRA, with other cities such as Lakeway
          or Lago Vista, or with other counties such as Williamson and Burnet?
          Is anyone else in this group privy to info about BCCP acquisition
          plans?

          Candy


          --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Brent" <brbapb@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Yikes! This has the potential to cause some problems for cachers,
          at
          > least in the posted areas of Emma Long Park. I posted a photo of
          the
          > signs to watch out for in the photos section.
          > http://tinyurl.com/dp3ft
          >
          > Yes that is correct, no off-trail hiking is allowed and that is a
          > year-round restriction. Bikes and motorcycles are restricted to
          > special use area within the park. The intent is to protect the
          > habitat and natural resources year-round.
          >
          >
          >
          > Thank you for your inquiry.
          >
          >
          >
          > Donald L. Koehler, Ph.D.
          >
          > Austin Water Utility
          >
          > Senior Biologist, BCP Program
          >
          > 3635 RR 620 South (Reicher Ranch)
          >
          > Austin, Texas 78738-6807
          >
          > 512-263-6431 (Office)
          >
          > 512-263-1276 (Fax)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          -
          > -----------
          >
          >
          > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:52 AM
          > To: don.koehler@c...
          > Subject: Emma Long Park and BCCP
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello!
          >
          >
          >
          > On your website http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/access.htm it
          > states that Emma Long park is open to hiking, mountain biking, and
          > motorcycling. However at some points along the trail signs such as
          > those in the included attachment state that it is an endangered
          > species habitat and that you must stay on marked trails. Does that
          > mean that no off-trail hiking is allowed, and if so, is that year-
          > round on only when the Golden Cheeked Warbler is in the area?
          >
        • Brent
          Just to clarify...the only place I have seen these signs is along the first mile or so of the Turkey Creek trail. Hopefully they will not proliferate
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Just to clarify...the only place I have seen these signs is along
            the first mile or so of the Turkey Creek trail. Hopefully they will
            not proliferate elsewhere, and while it does affect "The Moose Is
            Loose" I am hopefull it does not pertain to the caches that are
            farther West and North.

            Brent

            --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Candy Lind"
            <candylind@e...> wrote:
            >
            > Does anyone in this group have prior knowledge of this "stay on
            the
            > trail" rule in Emma Long? I certainly don't, nor can I say I have
            > ever seen ONE of the signs that Brent posted. How long can it be
            til
            > they do the same thing in Barton Creek greenbelt and Gus Fruh?
            Those
            > little signs basically make every single cache in Emma Long park
            > ILLEGAL.
            >
            > I think we should try to have a meeting with the PARD, Travis
            County,
            > and BCCP folks to clarify what has happened in the last 6 months
            and
            > what is planned for the next 2 to 5 years. I feel like we're
            having
            > the rug pulled out from under us.
            >
            > Rob, do you know anything about other BCCP plans, such as future
            > preserve lands in work with LCRA, with other cities such as
            Lakeway
            > or Lago Vista, or with other counties such as Williamson and
            Burnet?
            > Is anyone else in this group privy to info about BCCP acquisition
            > plans?
            >
            > Candy
            >
            >
          • alan@alancurry.com
            I ve sent a email to the wildlife biologist of the Balcones Canyonlands National Wildlife Refuge to see if he has any information. Alan
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
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              I've sent a email to the wildlife biologist of the Balcones Canyonlands
              National
              Wildlife Refuge to see if he has any information.

              Alan
            • Barb Jernigan
              On the one hand, that s a bummer. On the other -- I ve found too many off trail caches by following the previous cachers tracks. We re not purposely
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                On the one hand, that's a bummer.
                On the other -- I've found too many off trail caches by following the
                previous cachers' tracks.
                We're not purposely destructive, but, as they say in the old US Park
                Service movies, each off trail venture starts a new trail.
                I see where the parks are coming from.

                On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:17:19 -0000 "Brent" <brbapb@...> writes:
                > Yikes! This has the potential to cause some problems for cachers, at
                >
                > least in the posted areas of Emma Long Park. I posted a photo of the
                >
                > signs to watch out for in the photos section.
                > http://tinyurl.com/dp3ft
                >
                > Yes that is correct, no off-trail hiking is allowed and that is a
                > year-round restriction. Bikes and motorcycles are restricted to
                > special use area within the park. The intent is to protect the
                > habitat and natural resources year-round.
                >
                >
                >
                > Thank you for your inquiry.
                >
                >
                >
                > Donald L. Koehler, Ph.D.
                >
                > Austin Water Utility
                >
                > Senior Biologist, BCP Program
                >
                > 3635 RR 620 South (Reicher Ranch)
                >
                > Austin, Texas 78738-6807
                >
                > 512-263-6431 (Office)
                >
                > 512-263-1276 (Fax)
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                > -----------
                >
                >
                > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:52 AM
                > To: don.koehler@...
                > Subject: Emma Long Park and BCCP
                >
                >
                >
                > Hello!
                >
                >
                >
                > On your website http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/access.htm it
                > states that Emma Long park is open to hiking, mountain biking, and
                > motorcycling. However at some points along the trail signs such as
                > those in the included attachment state that it is an endangered
                > species habitat and that you must stay on marked trails. Does that
                > mean that no off-trail hiking is allowed, and if so, is that year-
                > round on only when the Golden Cheeked Warbler is in the area?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > --------------------~-->
                > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
                > home page
                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/YltolB/TM
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                The here and now is all we have; and if we play it right it's all we'll
                need. --Ann Richards
                @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                Americans will put up with anything provided it doesn't block traffic.
                --Dan Rather
              • Wayne Lind
                I see their point as well, to a degree. First, it is possible to position a cache off the main trail in such a way that a trail doesn t form. I have done it.
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 2, 2005
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                  I see their point as well, to a degree. First, it is possible to position a cache off the main trail in such a way that a trail doesn't form. I have done it. It takes a little more work on the placement and that's another story. Second, some trails are not formed by geocachers but by the animals that live there. I have followed many clearly defined trails through the cedars that were either made by deer or smurfs. I don't see anyone asking the deer to stop making trails. If a cacher places a cache on a pre-existing game trail, how is that negatively impacting the area? My "The Moose is Loose" cache in Emma Long took advantage of a game trail that was used by the deer to get to the creek. I didn't make that trail, nor did geocachers, it was there when I placed the cache. Third, at least for the moment anyway, the cache density versus cacher population in the area means that caches probably get found only about 25-30 times a year. This varies depending on the distance traveled to get to the trail head and the distance you have to walk to get to the cache. The Moose is Loose was found 65 times in the 18 months it was active, or about 0.8 times a week. I have a hard time imagining this as being devastating to the environment. Finally, when a casual trail forms (and yes, they do form) they invariably leave the main trail and dead end at the cache. So if the argument is that the casual trail could lead to an unplanned major trail at some later point, if the trail dead ends, it is useless to anyone but geocachers and wildlife.
                   
                  While I want to do all we can to save endangered species, I am having a big problem with the BCCP stealing Austin's parklands for wildlife preserves when there are several hundred million acres of hill country land currently uninhabited and untouched by humans outside the city. This land is geographically identical to the park land that the BCCP is proposing to steal from the taxpayers who bought it. If the BCCP needs more land, let them buy it. Then they are more then welcome to fence in the entire area. If the parkland is so critical that this is where the birds are absolutely going to live, let the BCCP purchase parkland that will replace the land they are currently stealing on an acre for acre basis. What is the point in my paying taxes to purchase parkland I will then be forbidden to use?
                  There are currently 3 parcels of parkland available for caching north of the Colorado river. NOTE, I am not talking about a .15 acre playground as a park! There is Emma Long Park, St. Edwards Park, and Walnut Creek Park. There was talk earlier this year about the BCCP stealing all or most of St. Eds, and now they are stealing Emma Long. Pretty soon there will be no usable parkland north of the river. This has to stop!
                   
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Barb Jernigan
                  Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:05 PM
                  To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Emma Long Park

                  On the one hand, that's a bummer.
                  On the other -- I've found too many off trail caches by following the
                  previous cachers' tracks.
                  We're not purposely destructive, but, as they say in the old US Park
                  Service movies, each off trail venture starts a new trail.
                  I see where the parks are coming from.

                  On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:17:19 -0000 "Brent" <brbapb@...> writes:
                  > Yikes! This has the potential to cause some problems for cachers, at
                  >
                  > least in the posted areas of Emma Long Park. I posted a photo of the
                  >
                  > signs to watch out for in the photos section.
                  > http://tinyurl.com/dp3ft
                  >
                  > Yes that is correct, no off-trail hiking is allowed and that is a
                  > year-round restriction.  Bikes and motorcycles are restricted to
                  > special use area within the park.  The intent is to protect the
                  > habitat and natural resources year-round.
                  >

                  >
                  > Thank you for your inquiry.
                  >

                  >
                  > Donald L. Koehler, Ph.D.
                  >
                  > Austin Water Utility
                  >
                  > Senior Biologist, BCP Program
                  >
                  > 3635 RR 620 South (Reicher Ranch)
                  >
                  > Austin, Texas 78738-6807
                  >
                  > 512-263-6431 (Office)
                  >
                  > 512-263-1276 (Fax)
                  >

                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > -----------
                  >
                  >
                  > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:52 AM
                  > To: don.koehler@...
                  > Subject: Emma Long Park and BCCP
                  >

                  >
                  > Hello!
                  >

                  >
                  > On your website http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/access.htm it
                  > states that Emma Long park is open to hiking, mountain biking, and
                  > motorcycling. However at some points along the trail signs such as
                  > those in the included attachment state that it is an endangered
                  > species habitat and that you must stay on marked trails. Does that
                  > mean that no off-trail hiking is allowed, and if so, is that year-
                  > round on only when the Golden Cheeked Warbler is in the area?
                  >

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > --------------------~-->
                  > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
                  > home page
                  > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/YltolB/TM
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                  >
                  >

                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                  The here and now is all we have; and if we play it right it's all we'll
                  need. --Ann Richards
                  @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                  Americans will put up with anything provided it doesn't block traffic.
                  --Dan Rather
                • Barb Jernigan
                  Oh, I positively get you ... I m one of those who can argue both sides of almost any issue. Grew up to/in the midst of the battle between the US Forest
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 3, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Oh, I positively get you ... I'm one of those who can argue both sides of almost any issue. Grew up to/in the midst of the battle between the US Forest Service, the loggers, Sierra Club, and Friends of the River..... And I've threaded more than a few game trails -- wish I were skinny as a deer, though.
                     
                    I'm all for conservation -- but I also have witnessed conservationists getting over-myopic (and sans sense), and do everything in their power to prevent public space from being used by the public. Anyway, don't mean to get into an argument... I think my post was meant mostly to remind us to be VERY careful of our brush crashing. Of course, no cacher HERE would be so focussed on the find that they'd CRASH through the brush and fling endangered birdie nests willie nillie.
                     
                    And perhaps we as users of the areas need to speak up.
                    When there's only one voice yelling, they get all the attention just to shut them up.....
                    =gentle smile=
                     
                    On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 22:55:13 -0600 "Wayne Lind" <wlind@...> writes:
                    I see their point as well, to a degree. First, it is possible to position a cache off the main trail in such a way that a trail doesn't form. I have done it. It takes a little more work on the placement and that's another story. Second, some trails are not formed by geocachers but by the animals that live there. I have followed many clearly defined trails through the cedars that were either made by deer or smurfs. I don't see anyone asking the deer to stop making trails. If a cacher places a cache on a pre-existing game trail, how is that negatively impacting the area? My "The Moose is Loose" cache in Emma Long took advantage of a game trail that was used by the deer to get to the creek. I didn't make that trail, nor did geocachers, it was there when I placed the cache. Third, at least for the moment anyway, the cache density versus cacher population in the area means that caches probably get found only about 25-30 times a year. This varies depending on the distance traveled to get to the trail head and the distance you have to walk to get to the cache. The Moose is Loose was found 65 times in the 18 months it was active, or about 0.8 times a week. I have a hard time imagining this as being devastating to the environment. Finally, when a casual trail forms (and yes, they do form) they invariably leave the main trail and dead end at the cache. So if the argument is that the casual trail could lead to an unplanned major trail at some later point, if the trail dead ends, it is useless to anyone but geocachers and wildlife.
                     
                    While I want to do all we can to save endangered species, I am having a big problem with the BCCP stealing Austin's parklands for wildlife preserves when there are several hundred million acres of hill country land currently uninhabited and untouched by humans outside the city. This land is geographically identical to the park land that the BCCP is proposing to steal from the taxpayers who bought it. If the BCCP needs more land, let them buy it. Then they are more then welcome to fence in the entire area. If the parkland is so critical that this is where the birds are absolutely going to live, let the BCCP purchase parkland that will replace the land they are currently stealing on an acre for acre basis. What is the point in my paying taxes to purchase parkland I will then be forbidden to use?
                    There are currently 3 parcels of parkland available for caching north of the Colorado river. NOTE, I am not talking about a .15 acre playground as a park! There is Emma Long Park, St. Edwards Park, and Walnut Creek Park. There was talk earlier this year about the BCCP stealing all or most of St. Eds, and now they are stealing Emma Long. Pretty soon there will be no usable parkland north of the river. This has to stop!
                     
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Barb Jernigan
                    Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:05 PM
                    To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Emma Long Park

                    On the one hand, that's a bummer.
                    On the other -- I've found too many off trail caches by following the
                    previous cachers' tracks.
                    We're not purposely destructive, but, as they say in the old US Park
                    Service movies, each off trail venture starts a new trail.
                    I see where the parks are coming from.

                    On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:17:19 -0000 "Brent" <brbapb@...> writes:
                    > Yikes! This has the potential to cause some problems for cachers, at
                    >
                    > least in the posted areas of Emma Long Park. I posted a photo of the
                    >
                    > signs to watch out for in the photos section.
                    > http://tinyurl.com/dp3ft
                    >
                    > Yes that is correct, no off-trail hiking is allowed and that is a
                    > year-round restriction.  Bikes and motorcycles are restricted to
                    > special use area within the park.  The intent is to protect the
                    > habitat and natural resources year-round.
                    >

                    >
                    > Thank you for your inquiry.
                    >

                    >
                    > Donald L. Koehler, Ph.D.
                    >
                    > Austin Water Utility
                    >
                    > Senior Biologist, BCP Program
                    >
                    > 3635 RR 620 South (Reicher Ranch)
                    >
                    > Austin, Texas 78738-6807
                    >
                    > 512-263-6431 (Office)
                    >
                    > 512-263-1276 (Fax)
                    >

                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > -----------
                    >
                    >
                    > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:52 AM
                    > To: don.koehler@...
                    > Subject: Emma Long Park and BCCP
                    >

                    >
                    > Hello!
                    >

                    >
                    > On your website http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/access.htm it
                    > states that Emma Long park is open to hiking, mountain biking, and
                    > motorcycling. However at some points along the trail signs such as
                    > those in the included attachment state that it is an endangered
                    > species habitat and that you must stay on marked trails. Does that
                    > mean that no off-trail hiking is allowed, and if so, is that year-
                    > round on only when the Golden Cheeked Warbler is in the area?
                    >

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > --------------------~-->
                    > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
                    > home page
                    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/YltolB/TM
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                    >
                    >

                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                    The here and now is all we have; and if we play it right it's all we'll
                    need. --Ann Richards
                    @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                    Americans will put up with anything provided it doesn't block traffic.
                    --Dan Rather
                     

                    @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                    The here and now is all we have; and if we play it right it's all we'll need. --Ann Richards
                    @,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
                    Americans will put up with anything provided it doesn't block traffic. --Dan Rather
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