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204Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to happen if they decide to pick up their toys and go home?

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  • David Gahagan
    Dec 31, 2002
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      Based on the replies for my post at geocaching.com it sounds as though we
      are in the minority. Most of those people can't think outside the box, so
      anything out of the ordinary is foreign and thus against the rules.

      What fools to eliminate so many wonderful places with such stupid rules.
      They haven't even thought about those who may be physically disabled and
      enjoy this sport. Tragic is the best word I can find to explain it.

      See you on a trail in the future, maybe.

      Looks like I'll have more time for homebrewing beer again..... :-) I guess
      it isn't all bad!

      Later
      FireCacher


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Daniel McGauley" <hawkeye@...>
      To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 3:13 PM
      Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to happen if they decide
      to pick up their toys and go home?


      > I've never had a 'find' cancelled, only 'hides.' I know they are only
      > doing it to try to make the sport better in their eyes, but when one of
      > their original cachers with a high-find count who pays dues every year
      > asks for an audience with the pope and gets brushed off, I realize this
      > sport isn't for me.
      >
      > -Daniel
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: David Gahagan [mailto:david@...]
      > > Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:43 PM
      > > To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to happen
      > > if they decide to pick up their toys and go home?
      > >
      > >
      > > What do you mean Erik cancelled all your recent caches? Ones
      > > that you places or ones that you claimed to find?
      > >
      > > Well if you have talked to Jeremy, then so be it. I moving
      > > in the direction of your boat at this point. These tools
      > > have made the site, and thus the sport nothing but a
      > > political quagmire of unlisted rules, regulations and pie in
      > > the sky dreams of how they want the sport to work.
      > >
      > > In the words of Homer Simpson, they can "cram it with walnuts".
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Daniel McGauley" <hawkeye@...>
      > > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 2:16 PM
      > > Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to happen
      > > if they decide to pick up their toys and go home?
      > >
      > >
      > > > I don't mind posting it there David, but I've talked directly with
      > > > Jeremy (via email), and he's the one who told me all of this, so I
      > > > didn't really have many more places in which to complain. Just for
      > > > your information "erik88l-r" (Erik) is the one who has
      > > cancelled all
      > > > my recent caches. So, if yours gets cancelled by him don't be
      > > > surprised.
      > > >
      > > > What's sad is that they came up with posting rules to
      > > follow and I've
      > > > followed all of them, but the caches were still cancelled. I asked
      > > > Jeremy for the location where proximity is listed in the
      > > posting rules
      > > > and he responded on my cache page with "This cache will not be
      > > > approved. It is entirely too close to an existing cache" and that's
      > > > it. After threatening to not support the sport any more
      > > and being as
      > > > tactful as possible, this was a giant middle-finger to me
      > > and fellow
      > > > cachers, so my only recourse was to stop the sport
      > > entirely. That's
      > > > worked well for me because now I don't have to deal with these
      > > > immature people. If they came up with better guidelines
      > > and adjusted
      > > > their page slightly to support "proof" of virtual cache finds that
      > > > would be one thing, but to pay $30+ per year for very few
      > > features and
      > > > then to have horrible customer service, I'll treat them
      > > like any other
      > > > bad business and take my business elsewhere .. like the arcade. I
      > > > really liked the sport though, and I still subscribe to
      > > this mailing
      > > > list because I made some good friends caching and this is
      > > the best way
      > > > to keep in touch with them since I'm not running into them on the
      > > > 'field' any more.
      > > >
      > > > I hope things change in the future for the sport, but it's unlikely.
      > > >
      > > > -Dan
      > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: David Gahagan [mailto:david@...]
      > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 1:53 PM
      > > > > To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to
      > > happen if they
      > > > > decide to pick up their toys and go home?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Dan, could you post your experiences to the thread I started at
      > > > > Geocaching.com.
      > > > >
      > > > > Maybe Jeremy will find my thread and provide some input.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > From: "Daniel McGauley" <hawkeye@...>
      > > > > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 12:17 PM
      > > > > Subject: RE: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to
      > > happen if they
      > > > > decide to pick up their toys and go home?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > My problem with the geocaching guys is that I have a copy
      > > > > of the cache
      > > > > > hiding rules and I follow them when I place a cache, but I
      > > > > still get
      > > > > > them rejected. My rejections have been for a variety of
      > > > > reasons. One
      > > > > > was because the virtual cache was too easy to find because
      > > > > part of the
      > > > > > name was on topographical maps. Two more were from
      > > virtual caches
      > > > > > where they said I had no way of proving a person went
      > > to a cache
      > > > > > or not even though I have a custom CGI script that
      > > verifies this.
      > > > > > The final one was because it was too close to another cache. I
      > > > > > know of all the caches in Austin and I know my cache
      > > was close to
      > > > > > another cache, but it wasn't close enough to cause
      > > confusion. I
      > > > > > was very tactful with the geocaching admins, but they
      > > were rather
      > > > > > rude. I finally tried putting pressure on them by
      > > telling them to
      > > > > either post
      > > > > > the cache or I'm not paying an annual support fee like I have
      > > > > > every year the sport has been around. They told me the rules are
      > > > > the rules,
      > > > > > which was funny since this wasn't in the RULES! I don't
      > > > > like dealing
      > > > > > with idiots, and their actions were very idiotic, so until
      > > > > I hear the
      > > > > > sport is changing for the better I'm going to find a new hobby.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I don't think most people have problems with the
      > > geocaching guys
      > > > > > though because they hide normal sized caches. I like
      > > > > hiding virtual
      > > > > > caches because they take people to neat places in Austin.
      > > > > I hid the
      > > > > > bullet hole cache at U.T., a couple of movie caches that
      > > > > take you to
      > > > > > places where famous movies have been shot, the focault
      > > > > pendulum cache
      > > > > > on 35, and several others. I was told by the geocache
      > > admins that
      > > > > > until I can PROVE that someone went to those sites, I can't
      > > > > post them
      > > > > > any more. I'm sure most of you have used my auto-logging
      > > > > system. I
      > > > > > think that's proof enough, but they wanted more. I
      > > suggested they
      > > > > > build virtual-checking into their site, and they said
      > > they might
      > > > > > in the future, so until then I'm not going to spend the energy
      > > > > > hiding stuff only to cross my fingers that they'll post it.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > It's a fun sport, and I enjoyed playing it, but whenever
      > > > > politics get
      > > > > > involved I usually get out.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > -Daniel
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > > > From: David Gahagan [mailto:david@...]
      > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 10:51 AM
      > > > > > > To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to
      > > > > happen if they
      > > > > > > decide to pick up their toys and go home?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Mine has been brewing for months. I think if you will
      > > > > look at this
      > > > > > > groups
      > > > > > > log, Dan posted something back in early summer. I have
      > > > > archives from
      > > > > > > September where Dan posted problems as well.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > The problems encountered are across the spectrum, from
      > > > > caches that
      > > > > > > are too close together to "by looking at a map, that doesn't
      > > > > > > look like a good cache spot.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > If they want to better manage the cache placement
      > > > > process, then get
      > > > > > > reliable people in each area to volunteer to verify cache
      > > > > placement
      > > > > > > and location before final approval.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > The biggest problem I see with their rules is that a)
      > > they can't
      > > > > > > actually verify the cache location, b) the wording used
      > > > > in creating
      > > > > > > the cache placement page is critical to getting
      > > approval, and c)
      > > > > > > anyone can get a cache posted with a little effort (changing
      > > > > > > location, description, etc... after approval)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > > > From: "Ken Mikolaj" <stars_fan_2001@...>
      > > > > > > To: <CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 10:41 AM
      > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] What's going to
      > > > > happen if they
      > > > > > > decide to pick up their toys and go home?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I don't know the details or background of what is
      > > being spoken
      > > > > > > > about here.....but I can tell you that I
      > > > > don't like
      > > > > > > > having 4 caches in one park. I like 1 (maybe 2 if
      > > the park is
      > > > > > > > large enough) per park/area. So, if the only rule that is
      > > > > > > > being enforced is one that limits how close caches can be,
      > > > > then what's
      > > > > > > > the problem? Are people hooked on trying to make it a
      > > > > > > competition on how
      > > > > > > > many caches they find (therefore, many caches close
      > > together
      > > > > > > > is benificial in some strange way...makes those 'find'
      > > > > numbers grow
      > > > > > > > quicker)?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I placed my 2 caches about 10 months ago and had no
      > > problems.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > What kind of rules are Jeremy and his minions inforcing?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Posting just a "Texas" geocaching site is not the answer.
      > > > > > > > The good part about a central location for all caches is
      > > > > that when you
      > > > > > > > travel, you can find caches in the area traveled to
      > > > > with ease. If
      > > > > > > > every
      > > > > > > state/city/county
      > > > > > > > had their own site, it would be a nightmare.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > The solution is to let the people that are lessening your
      > > > > > > > enjoyment of the game know this. Let them know
      > > what they are
      > > > > > > > doing wrong. When enough people tell them, they
      > > will change.
      > > > > > > > Otherwise, fewer people will play the game on the
      > > geocaching
      > > > > > > > site, it (the site) will die,
      > > > > and a new one
      > > > > > > > will start somewhere else.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > How long has thie discontent been brewing in the
      > > > > geocaching ranks?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- David Gahagan <david@...> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > Mark, et al.... I too am growing tired of Jeremy and
      > > > > his little
      > > > > > > > > minions telling me how to play my game. Jeremy
      > > did a good
      > > > > > > > > job and was fair in cache placements, these
      > > little pinheads
      > > > > > > > > he has helping him don't have a clue what
      > > > > > > > > they are doing. If I want to post a cache on the
      > > > > > > > > roof of my house (granted
      > > > > > > > > it meets the non-commercial rules, etc...) then I
      > > > > > > > > should be able to do it.
      > > > > > > > > Who cares if there is another cache 25ft, 50ft,
      > > > > > > > > 200ft or even 2000ft away.
      > > > > > > >
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