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Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Lance "missing" Link

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  • Fabio
    By the by, how do you feel about Tony Allen not getting his option picked up by the Celtics? (Lance) It is a clear sign that the Celtics front office is not
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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      By the by, how do you feel about Tony Allen not getting his option
      picked up by the Celtics? (Lance)


      It is a clear sign that the Celtics' front office is not sold on the
      idea of him coming back strong from the injury. From what I saw in Rome
      the knee was still bothering him, but he was working very hard and with
      the particular nature of that injury he was doing fine. But Ainge has
      tons of imformation more than we do: he can rely on Norton and Doo, on
      McKeon, on the coaching staff to receive deep feedback, and what he got
      wasn't probably worth a contract extension. Danny probably "played it
      safe", thinking that playing in a contract year will probably boost
      Tony's will to show what he is worth. And at the same time, it will
      leave a door open later, with the possibility to match other team's
      offer sheet in case Allen becomes a worth piece in the Celtics bench.
      I personally believe that if Tony manages to give us what he showed he
      can give before the injury, this season could even become more
      appealing for the Celtics, because Rivers' statement ("we'll use an 8/9
      men rotation") is puzzling. An 8 men rotation means a 30' average of
      playing time for EVERY player, which is too much IMHO, with the
      distinct possibility to reach the postseason with some players
      literally burned out as in K.C.'s good ole days.
      That's why I think that Tony Allen's performance will be a factor in
      the season outcome: he'll have to break up the rotation and to push
      Posey to sub in at the PF spot for a few minutes: that would give Ray
      and Pierce a little more breathing room in some nights, especially in
      one of the NINETEEN back-to-back games we will have to face in the
      upcoming campaign.


      Fabio
    • davidp4660@cox.net
      Welcome back ,Lance. That was a pretty long hiatus you were on. I guess we are now ready for smoe controversy. Let the games begin! :-)
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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        Welcome back ,Lance. That was a pretty long hiatus you were on. I guess we are now ready for smoe controversy. Let the games begin! :-)
        ---- JS <js33@...> wrote:
        > Life's just been busy, and PP's still turning over the ball, so I'll be back!!!
        >
        > --------------------------------------
        >
        > Well , it's good to here from you !! I'm looking forward to some posts and your take
        > on things .
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: labvision@...<mailto:labvision@...>
        > To: Celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:33 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Celtics' Stuff ] Lance "missing" Link
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 10/27/2007 10:10:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, js33@...<mailto:js33@...> writes:
        > The posuer poster has been seen zipping around Med-Field in his VW Rabbit convertible
        > sporting a knockoff Zach Randolph jersey and a blue and orange pair of Starbury sneakers.
        >
        > Actually, John, it's my girlfriend's VW BEETLE convertible, and it's hard to "zip" anywhere with 115 horsepower.
        >
        > Kinda like asking Walker to run the length of the floor in frigid Minneapolis.
        >
        > I wish the Knicks were better, but aside from David Lee, the team (and its coach) offer me no incentive to watch the franchise I grew up with in CT, led by Earl, Clyde, Willis, Bradley, and Barnett.
        >
        > I've not been posting since Fabio was made President of Off-shore Operations, but he's doing a great job helping the board and the Celts realize that San Antonio found some great talent from outside the borders.
        >
        > Life's just been busy, and PP's still turning over the ball, so I'll be back!!!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > See what's new at AOL.com<http://www.aol.com/?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170> and Make AOL Your Homepage<http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169>.
        >
      • Joe Moriarty_2
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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          < Rivers' statement ("we'll use an 8/9 men rotation") is puzzling.
          An 8 men rotation means a 30' average of playing time for EVERY
          player, which is too much IMHO, with the distinct possibility to reach
          the postseason with some players literally burned out as in K.C.'s
          good ole days.That's why I think that Tony Allen's performance will
          be a factor in the season outcome: he'll have to break up the rotation
          and to push Posey to sub in at the PF spot for a few minutes: that would
          give Ray and Pierce a little more breathing room in some nights,
          especially in
          one of the NINETEEN back-to-back games we will have to face in the
          upcoming campaign. > (Fabio)


          Mostly agree with most of this. But, not to play the roster, (although I
          know Rivers traditionally is only going to keep most of the lower roster
          on the bench ALL game), but not to play the roster, gives the reality
          THAT the only way the roster is going to learn to play together, when
          the tough times come, is to get them into the real games. (Either
          Garnett OR Ray Allen in most all cases should be IN with a couple of
          lower end-guys, when/if Coach has them in. ) Those two older heads can
          teach them/help them themselves. Ray is cool; KG will command their
          attention. I realize the potential risk in this for the coach, vis a vis
          losing a bunch of games. But IF this team is going to the playoffs,
          wouldn't it be advantageous to go there with many roster guys, who have
          been given a tough education in regular league games ? Now, K.C.'s
          Celtics (burned out maybe), but look at the team of that day, and you
          see more guys who knew how to play team nba ball, than we have in the
          current roster. Older heads (players) HAVE to teach--this is a teaching
          year. Regardless of what Garnett, Ray and Pierce might think <grin>, All
          other league teams (either conference) are going to "be, like from
          Missouri", where our Celts are concerned. And its that no other one is
          going to have ANY mindset that the Celts are going to breeze through
          their games. Celts will have to SHOW all the other players in the
          league. Yes, Wallace, Pruitt, Pollard (and maybe even House & Davis,
          altho their time could end up being MORE), should not get 30 min average
          , but they still have LOTs of things to learn that can only be learned,
          in the regular league competition. I do not think this current Cs team
          is ready to just overwhelm anybody THIS season. I look more to 2008-2009.

          Although, I expect that in this season, we'll win a bunch of games.

          For one thing, I see still vestiges of Pierce's in his game-ways. THIS
          NBA just is not the game, where one can eat up too much time-on any
          given play for him-by holding the ball in his "slowish" ways, and
          figuring his attack or pass. Speaking of PASS, which due to the time he
          has used, is NOT going to afford him a decent pass to make. Paul is a
          good, even maybe a great, player but "his ways" to show this, are NOT
          that coincident-to the NBA game played today. Earl "the Pearl" Monroe
          could play that way, very well, but that was yesteryear. Just my opinion
          of course.


          musty Joe



          Fabio wrote:
          > By the by, how do you feel about Tony Allen not getting his option
          > picked up by the Celtics? (Lance)
          >
          >
          > It is a clear sign that the Celtics' front office is not sold on the
          > idea of him coming back strong from the injury. From what I saw in Rome
          > the knee was still bothering him, but he was working very hard and with
          > the particular nature of that injury he was doing fine. But Ainge has
          > tons of imformation more than we do: he can rely on Norton and Doo, on
          > McKeon, on the coaching staff to receive deep feedback, and what he got
          > wasn't probably worth a contract extension. Danny probably "played it
          > safe", thinking that playing in a contract year will probably boost
          > Tony's will to show what he is worth. And at the same time, it will
          > leave a door open later, with the possibility to match other team's
          > offer sheet in case Allen becomes a worth piece in the Celtics bench.
          > I personally believe that if Tony manages to give us what he showed he
          > can give before the injury, this season could even become more
          > appealing for the Celtics, because Rivers' statement ("we'll use an 8/9
          > men rotation") is puzzling. An 8 men rotation means a 30' average of
          > playing time for EVERY player, which is too much IMHO, with the
          > distinct possibility to reach the postseason with some players
          > literally burned out as in K.C.'s good ole days.
          > That's why I think that Tony Allen's performance will be a factor in
          > the season outcome: he'll have to break up the rotation and to push
          > Posey to sub in at the PF spot for a few minutes: that would give Ray
          > and Pierce a little more breathing room in some nights, especially in
          > one of the NINETEEN back-to-back games we will have to face in the
          > upcoming campaign.
          >
          >
          > Fabio
          >
          >
          >
          > Boston Celtics' fans; looking for inspiration,intellect and humor.
          >
          > Celticsstuff Live - The Ultimate Toll Free Call-In Webcast Talk Show Featuring: Jughead, JB and The Duke.
          > http://celticsstufflive.com/
          >
          > RSS:
          > http://rss.groups.yahoo.com/group/Celticsstuffgroup/rss
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Fabio
          My problem with the 8 men rotation is that if you decide to play, say, Eddie House 20 minutes instead of 30, you ll have to keep Ray Allen (or Pierce) on the
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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            My problem with the 8 men rotation is that if you decide to play,
            say, Eddie House 20 minutes instead of 30, you'll have to keep Ray
            Allen (or Pierce) on the court for 40 minutes. Which is not bad per
            se in a given game where you are facing a tough opponent, but could
            become a problem in the long run if done day in and day out. Nineteen
            back-to-back games and the Three Stars being 30+ years old are
            factors which must be taken into account. As the 1969 Celtics watched
            themselves in a mirror, they realized that the only way they could
            win a championship was to reach the playoffs without being burned out
            and then giving it all they had. I am not saying I would like to see
            Boston barely land a playoff berth, but if I was Rivers I would focus
            on playing a larger rotation and prepping the whole team up for the
            post-season. I would not mind dropping a game here and there down the
            road if it means teaching Pruitt and Davis some NBA life, and if at
            the same time it means keeping the stars rested. I am also aware that
            good players want to play and don't want to lose, but whe should ask
            ourselves if our goal is to win 55 games, or to try to go deep into
            the playoffs.


            Fabio


            --- In Celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com, Joe Moriarty_2
            <mustyceltic@...> wrote:
            >
            > < Rivers' statement ("we'll use an 8/9 men rotation") is puzzling.
            > An 8 men rotation means a 30' average of playing time for EVERY
            > player, which is too much IMHO, with the distinct possibility to
            reach
            > the postseason with some players literally burned out as in K.C.'s
            > good ole days.That's why I think that Tony Allen's performance will
            > be a factor in the season outcome: he'll have to break up the
            rotation
            > and to push Posey to sub in at the PF spot for a few minutes: that
            would
            > give Ray and Pierce a little more breathing room in some nights,
            > especially in
            > one of the NINETEEN back-to-back games we will have to face in the
            > upcoming campaign. > (Fabio)
            >
            >
            > Mostly agree with most of this. But, not to play the roster,
            (although I
            > know Rivers traditionally is only going to keep most of the lower
            roster
            > on the bench ALL game), but not to play the roster, gives the
            reality
            > THAT the only way the roster is going to learn to play together,
            when
            > the tough times come, is to get them into the real games. (Either
            > Garnett OR Ray Allen in most all cases should be IN with a couple
            of
            > lower end-guys, when/if Coach has them in. ) Those two older heads
            can
            > teach them/help them themselves. Ray is cool; KG will command their
            > attention. I realize the potential risk in this for the coach, vis
            a vis
            > losing a bunch of games. But IF this team is going to the playoffs,
            > wouldn't it be advantageous to go there with many roster guys, who
            have
            > been given a tough education in regular league games ? Now, K.C.'s
            > Celtics (burned out maybe), but look at the team of that day, and
            you
            > see more guys who knew how to play team nba ball, than we have in
            the
            > current roster. Older heads (players) HAVE to teach--this is a
            teaching
            > year. Regardless of what Garnett, Ray and Pierce might think
            <grin>, All
            > other league teams (either conference) are going to "be, like from
            > Missouri", where our Celts are concerned. And its that no other one
            is
            > going to have ANY mindset that the Celts are going to breeze
            through
            > their games. Celts will have to SHOW all the other players in the
            > league. Yes, Wallace, Pruitt, Pollard (and maybe even House &
            Davis,
            > altho their time could end up being MORE), should not get 30 min
            average
            > , but they still have LOTs of things to learn that can only be
            learned,
            > in the regular league competition. I do not think this current Cs
            team
            > is ready to just overwhelm anybody THIS season. I look more to 2008-
            2009.
            >
            > Although, I expect that in this season, we'll win a bunch of games.
            >
            > For one thing, I see still vestiges of Pierce's in his game-ways.
            THIS
            > NBA just is not the game, where one can eat up too much time-on any
            > given play for him-by holding the ball in his "slowish" ways, and
            > figuring his attack or pass. Speaking of PASS, which due to the
            time he
            > has used, is NOT going to afford him a decent pass to make. Paul is
            a
            > good, even maybe a great, player but "his ways" to show this, are
            NOT
            > that coincident-to the NBA game played today. Earl "the Pearl"
            Monroe
            > could play that way, very well, but that was yesteryear. Just my
            opinion
            > of course.
            >
            >
            > musty Joe
            >
          • Harry R. Blaine
            ... MY problem with an 8 man rotation is the fact that they don t have a backup 4/5. Anybody who thinks they do doesn t know shit. Harry so there
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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              --- In Celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Fabio" <legend33@...> wrote:
              >
              > My problem with the 8 men rotation is that if you decide to play,
              > say, Eddie House 20 minutes instead of 30, you'll have to keep Ray
              > Allen (or Pierce) on the court for 40 minutes. Which is not bad per
              > se in a given game where you are facing a tough opponent, but could
              > become a problem in the long run if done day in and day out.

              MY problem with an 8 man rotation is the fact that they don't have a
              backup 4/5. Anybody who thinks they do doesn't know shit.

              Harry
              so there
            • Fabio
              MY problem with an 8 man rotation is the fact that they don t have a backup 4/5. (Harry) They are trying to see if a platoon of Powe, Pollard, Scalabrine and
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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                MY problem with an 8 man rotation is the fact that they don't have a
                backup 4/5. (Harry)

                They are trying to see if a platoon of Powe, Pollard, Scalabrine and
                Bib Baby can cover those backup spots. I'd personally have tried to
                sign Howard or P.J. Brown, but it this an experiment which deserves
                some respect, even if I am not sure it will work. If it doesn' t pan
                out, what will Doc do? Will he try to win games leaving Garnett and
                Perkins on the floor, or he will try to focus on the playoffs?
                This is one of the biggest questions in the Celtics season. Personally,
                I think Doc will go for the "win now" situation. He - and the Celtics
                fans - is tired of losing after two seasons in the cellar of the NBA,
                but a choice like this could be bloody for the team's playoffs
                aspirations.




                Fabio
              • Harry R. Blaine
                ... a ... and ... pan ... Personally, ... Celtics ... NBA, ... You are absolutely right Fabio. How anyone can depend on a guy that s *always* injured, an over
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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                  --- In Celticsstuffgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Fabio" <legend33@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > MY problem with an 8 man rotation is the fact that they don't have
                  a
                  > backup 4/5. (Harry)
                  >
                  > They are trying to see if a platoon of Powe, Pollard, Scalabrine
                  and
                  > Bib Baby can cover those backup spots. I'd personally have tried to
                  > sign Howard or P.J. Brown, but it this an experiment which deserves
                  > some respect, even if I am not sure it will work. If it doesn' t
                  pan
                  > out, what will Doc do? Will he try to win games leaving Garnett and
                  > Perkins on the floor, or he will try to focus on the playoffs?
                  > This is one of the biggest questions in the Celtics season.
                  Personally,
                  > I think Doc will go for the "win now" situation. He - and the
                  Celtics
                  > fans - is tired of losing after two seasons in the cellar of the
                  NBA,
                  > but a choice like this could be bloody for the team's playoffs
                  > aspirations.

                  You are absolutely right Fabio. How anyone can depend on a guy
                  that's *always* injured, an over weight rookie, a slice of Veal and a
                  guy who hasn't shown much to rest Perkins and KG is beyond me. First
                  of all, only one is a 5. I' do have to disagree with you, this
                  experiment gets no respect from me. And what in hell will Dr. Ainge
                  (you know, Doc, the brain doc and danny) do when someone goes down?
                  Or do they expect the big three to play 82 games? Perk too. And
                  Rondo. I can see two injuries killing this club.

                  And of course Doc will try to win games. I mean if he's 20 and 20 at
                  the All Star break, do you think Wyc will stand for that? If he
                  can't win - and win BIG with these guys, he's got to go, I don't care
                  if Danny loves Doc's old lady or whatever. He's got the horses, it's
                  win or else. So the Celts stagger into the playoffs with 5 worn out
                  players. Hey, at least they'll have home court advantage, right?

                  Harry
                  don't the cs have a plethora of twos and threes? duh
                • labvision@aol.com
                  In a message dated 11/1/2007 5:03:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, legend33@libero.it writes:
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 4, 2007
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                    In a message dated 11/1/2007 5:03:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, legend33@... writes:
                    <<I personally believe that if Tony manages to give us what he showed he
                    can give before the injury, this season could even become more
                    appealing for the Celtics, because Rivers' statement ("we'll use an 8/9
                    men rotation") is puzzling. An 8 men rotation means a 30' average of
                    playing time for EVERY player, which is too much IMHO, with the
                    distinct possibility to reach the postseason with some players
                    literally burned out as in K.C.'s good ole days.  >>
                    But not as burned out as Obie had them in the not-so-old days?  :)
                     
                    I like your analysis, Fabio, in that either way, Allen has to get healthy and play smart.  Seems to me that he's now  got as good an attitude about what he needs to do as anyone could, and there's no question that having PP, KG and RA playing 2/3s of every game EACH, will cause some real wear and tear.  Scal, Tony and Posey are certainly going to get minutes as fill-ins; I was pleased to see the defense of Pollard and his overall awareness--he's been a garbageman against the Celts, but likely sees himself in the Perkins role of stops, boards and cleanup.
                     
                    Posey's the real X factor, though, and I'll have a stronger sense of TA's value to THIS team when we see the three of them ready to go.




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