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Re: [CatVet] incontinent tailless cat

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  • NANCY NYGAARD
    Oh, that s sad!!!!!  My brother had a manx years ago...his name was Eddie and he had NO TAIL at all and was huge!!!!!!  I think they are so neat looking I m
    Message 1 of 14 , May 1, 2009
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      Oh, that's sad!!!!!  My brother had a manx years ago...his name was Eddie and he had NO TAIL at all and was huge!!!!!!  I think they are so neat looking I'm sorry that this birth defect occurs!!!!!...is it reparable??? regards, nancy

      --- On Tue, 4/28/09, Frances Horton <moosehorton1@...> wrote:

      From: Frances Horton <moosehorton1@...>
      Subject: Re: [CatVet] incontinent tailless cat
      To: CatVet@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 5:30 PM










      This is call Manx Syndrome, I am sure there are web pages on it.  It is a sad birth defect that goes along with the complete lack of a tail and the nerves at the base of the tail that controls the bowels and bladder.  Leaking fecal fluid can be a sign of an impaction.  How does his bowel movements look when he actually goes to the bathroom?  If it is thin, then I would have a vet check him for the beginnings of an impaction.
       
      Here is a website on the breed with a real good explanation of the condition several paragraphs down in the information. 
       
      http://www.manx- cats.co.uk/ manfaq.htm
       
      Fortunately not all Manx have the issue.

      Hi,

      I just joined this group because I am fostering a tailless cat for a shelter. I'm guessing the kitten is 10-12 weeks old based on size and it is male. I haven't yet got information on his mother, but I know he had 3 litter mates, 2 with tails and one without. His brother who is tailless got a fecal impaction
       
       
       that the vet was not able to resolve, so he was euthanized. This kitten is also polydactyl on all 4 paws, as was the euthanized kitten. I don't know about the other 2 with tails.

      The kitten I a fostering is named Jocko and is a very sweet kitten. He seems happy and is playful, he also loves to be held and purrs a lot. I do not notice any problems with walking, running, jumping or climbing, but it does look like his back legs are spaced farther apart than normal.

      Jocko "leaks" a bit of fecal liquid and occasionally dribbles urine. While playing, he will occasionally leak urine, and once while lying down, he urinated a rather large amount. He also peed a large amount on me once when I was holding him. It seems like he has no awareness that this is happening, he does not do any of the normal cat sniffing and scratching of a spot to urinate. I have seen small pieces of formed stool in his cage, as well as large normal looking formed stool. I haven't seen him make these, but the kitten he is with does use the litter box, so I assume all stool outside the box belongs to Jocko. I don't know if he tries to use the box to stool, or if it just comes out of him. His anal opening appears larger than normal and seems to be open rather than cinched up closed. No doubt this accounts for the leakage. His little bum is very dirty and I gently wipe him off at least twice a day.

      I've been trying to research on line to find information on Jocko's type of birth defect, but don't find much helpful.

      Does anyone have experience with this kind of defect in a kitten? Seems like a lot of the stuff I've read indicates a poor prognosis and that he will likely get worse rather than better. And there is always the potential for fecal impaction. Do any of them improve? Is there any sort of surgical intervention that can help him?

      Merlin

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • merlinmarshall
      Hi, No, no impaction. I worried about that and took him to the shelter vet. X-ray showed normal looking spinal column, but distended bowel and bladder. He
      Message 2 of 14 , May 1, 2009
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        Hi,

        No, no impaction. I worried about that and took him to the shelter vet. X-ray showed normal looking spinal column, but distended bowel and bladder. He seems to have no muscle tone in either of those organs, so when they fill up, they just leak out. The vet expressed both bowel and bladder which were both full. The stool was playdoh consistency, so it was fine. He also seems to have no muscle tone in the anal sphincter, so it is just open. Usually touching or lightly pinching it will cause a pucker reaction, but it did not. According to the vet, very rarely do they get better on their own for whatever reason, and there is no medical treatment. Most likely he would need to have bowel and bladder expressed the rest of his life, several times a day. I was hoping there would be some sort of surgical intervention that could be done, but I guess not. The shelter does not have the staff to do this, and I can't be home all the time to do this.

        Merlin

        --- In CatVet@yahoogroups.com, NANCY NYGAARD <nancy.nygaard@...> wrote:
        >
        > Oh, that's sad!!!!!  My brother had a manx years ago...his name was Eddie and he had NO TAIL at all and was huge!!!!!!  I think they are so neat looking I'm sorry that this birth defect occurs!!!!!...is it reparable??? regards, nancy
        >
        > --- On Tue, 4/28/09, Frances Horton <moosehorton1@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Frances Horton <moosehorton1@...>
        > Subject: Re: [CatVet] incontinent tailless cat
        > To: CatVet@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 5:30 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > This is call Manx Syndrome, I am sure there are web pages on it.  It is a sad birth defect that goes along with the complete lack of a tail and the nerves at the base of the tail that controls the bowels and bladder.  Leaking fecal fluid can be a sign of an impaction.  How does his bowel movements look when he actually goes to the bathroom?  If it is thin, then I would have a vet check him for the beginnings of an impaction.
        >  
        > Here is a website on the breed with a real good explanation of the condition several paragraphs down in the information. 
        >  
        > http://www.manx- cats.co.uk/ manfaq.htm
        >  
        > Fortunately not all Manx have the issue.
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I just joined this group because I am fostering a tailless cat for a shelter. I'm guessing the kitten is 10-12 weeks old based on size and it is male. I haven't yet got information on his mother, but I know he had 3 litter mates, 2 with tails and one without. His brother who is tailless got a fecal impaction
        >  
        >  
        >  that the vet was not able to resolve, so he was euthanized. This kitten is also polydactyl on all 4 paws, as was the euthanized kitten. I don't know about the other 2 with tails.
        >
        > The kitten I a fostering is named Jocko and is a very sweet kitten. He seems happy and is playful, he also loves to be held and purrs a lot. I do not notice any problems with walking, running, jumping or climbing, but it does look like his back legs are spaced farther apart than normal.
        >
        > Jocko "leaks" a bit of fecal liquid and occasionally dribbles urine. While playing, he will occasionally leak urine, and once while lying down, he urinated a rather large amount. He also peed a large amount on me once when I was holding him. It seems like he has no awareness that this is happening, he does not do any of the normal cat sniffing and scratching of a spot to urinate. I have seen small pieces of formed stool in his cage, as well as large normal looking formed stool. I haven't seen him make these, but the kitten he is with does use the litter box, so I assume all stool outside the box belongs to Jocko. I don't know if he tries to use the box to stool, or if it just comes out of him. His anal opening appears larger than normal and seems to be open rather than cinched up closed. No doubt this accounts for the leakage. His little bum is very dirty and I gently wipe him off at least twice a day.
        >
        > I've been trying to research on line to find information on Jocko's type of birth defect, but don't find much helpful.
        >
        > Does anyone have experience with this kind of defect in a kitten? Seems like a lot of the stuff I've read indicates a poor prognosis and that he will likely get worse rather than better. And there is always the potential for fecal impaction. Do any of them improve? Is there any sort of surgical intervention that can help him?
        >
        > Merlin
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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        >
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        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      • michelle fero
        Merlin, Have you tried maybe adding a little pumpkin to his diet.  I would ask the vet first becuase it works good with cats who are both constipated or have
        Message 3 of 14 , May 1, 2009
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          Merlin,

          Have you tried maybe adding a little pumpkin to his diet.  I would ask the vet first becuase it works good with cats who are both constipated or have too loose of a stool.  Are you located any chance near a vet school.

          I had several CRF kitties the last couple of years and we seen alot of different vets and not all vets have the same knowledge. Maybe there is something new outthere that this veternarian isn't aware of.  I would defininatelyl get a 2nd opinion.   I know you are just fostering him right now but perhaps the vet would be willing do check him for a reduced rate.

          Unforuntaely Manx cats along with other mutated gene cats such as Scottish Fold often have alot of health issues.  ONe of my vet friends loved Scottish Fold cats until she had to put a couple to sleep. Since the folding is due to problem with the cartiledge in their ears it can cause other issues.  In the case of these kittens it affected their breathing and nothing could be done to remedy it.  However she told me that the Dexon Rex and Selkirk Rex cats the mutated gene with them only affects the hair and isn't harmful to the cat. 

          Thanks so much for trying to help this little guy out. 

          Blessings,
          Michelle


          --- On Fri, 5/1/09, merlinmarshall <merlinmarshall@...> wrote:

          From: merlinmarshall <merlinmarshall@...>
          Subject: [CatVet] Re: incontinent tailless cat
          To: CatVet@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:05 PM

















          Hi,



          No, no impaction. I worried about that and took him to the shelter vet. X-ray showed normal looking spinal column, but distended bowel and bladder. He seems to have no muscle tone in either of those organs, so when they fill up, they just leak out. The vet expressed both bowel and bladder which were both full. The stool was playdoh consistency, so it was fine. He also seems to have no muscle tone in the anal sphincter, so it is just open. Usually touching or lightly pinching it will cause a pucker reaction, but it did not. According to the vet, very rarely do they get better on their own for whatever reason, and there is no medical treatment. Most likely he would need to have bowel and bladder expressed the rest of his life, several times a day. I was hoping there would be some sort of surgical intervention that could be done, but I guess not. The shelter does not have the staff to do this, and I can't be home all the time to do this.



          Merlin



          --- In CatVet@yahoogroups. com, NANCY NYGAARD <nancy.nygaard@ ...> wrote:

          >

          > Oh, that's sad!!!!!  My brother had a manx years ago...his name was Eddie and he had NO TAIL at all and was huge!!!!!!  I think they are so neat looking I'm sorry that this birth defect occurs!!!!!. ..is it reparable??? regards, nancy

          >

          > --- On Tue, 4/28/09, Frances Horton <moosehorton1@ ...> wrote:

          >

          > From: Frances Horton <moosehorton1@ ...>

          > Subject: Re: [CatVet] incontinent tailless cat

          > To: CatVet@yahoogroups. com

          > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 5:30 PM

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          > This is call Manx Syndrome, I am sure there are web pages on it.  It is a sad birth defect that goes along with the complete lack of a tail and the nerves at the base of the tail that controls the bowels and bladder.  Leaking fecal fluid can be a sign of an impaction.  How does his bowel movements look when he actually goes to the bathroom?  If it is thin, then I would have a vet check him for the beginnings of an impaction.

          >  

          > Here is a website on the breed with a real good explanation of the condition several paragraphs down in the information. 

          >  

          > http://www.manx- cats.co.uk/ manfaq.htm

          >  

          > Fortunately not all Manx have the issue.

          >

          > Hi,

          >

          > I just joined this group because I am fostering a tailless cat for a shelter. I'm guessing the kitten is 10-12 weeks old based on size and it is male. I haven't yet got information on his mother, but I know he had 3 litter mates, 2 with tails and one without. His brother who is tailless got a fecal impaction

          >  

          >  

          >  that the vet was not able to resolve, so he was euthanized. This kitten is also polydactyl on all 4 paws, as was the euthanized kitten. I don't know about the other 2 with tails.

          >

          > The kitten I a fostering is named Jocko and is a very sweet kitten. He seems happy and is playful, he also loves to be held and purrs a lot. I do not notice any problems with walking, running, jumping or climbing, but it does look like his back legs are spaced farther apart than normal.

          >

          > Jocko "leaks" a bit of fecal liquid and occasionally dribbles urine. While playing, he will occasionally leak urine, and once while lying down, he urinated a rather large amount. He also peed a large amount on me once when I was holding him. It seems like he has no awareness that this is happening, he does not do any of the normal cat sniffing and scratching of a spot to urinate. I have seen small pieces of formed stool in his cage, as well as large normal looking formed stool. I haven't seen him make these, but the kitten he is with does use the litter box, so I assume all stool outside the box belongs to Jocko. I don't know if he tries to use the box to stool, or if it just comes out of him. His anal opening appears larger than normal and seems to be open rather than cinched up closed. No doubt this accounts for the leakage. His little bum is very dirty and I gently wipe him off at least twice a day.

          >

          > I've been trying to research on line to find information on Jocko's type of birth defect, but don't find much helpful.

          >

          > Does anyone have experience with this kind of defect in a kitten? Seems like a lot of the stuff I've read indicates a poor prognosis and that he will likely get worse rather than better. And there is always the potential for fecal impaction. Do any of them improve? Is there any sort of surgical intervention that can help him?

          >

          > Merlin

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

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          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >































          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • merlinmarshall
          An update on the kitten Jocko. After some correspondence with someone, I did a bit more internet research, and found that there are a couple of motility drugs
          Message 4 of 14 , May 4, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            An update on the kitten Jocko. After some correspondence with someone, I did a bit more internet research, and found that there are a couple of motility drugs out there. One is brand name Propulsid (cisapride). This one is no longer available for people, but can still be compounded for animals and seems to be pretty safe in cats. I called the vet to ask him if he thought it might help. The vet decided it was worth a shot, so ordered it for me from a compounding pharmacy. The vet got them to make it up for me just before they closed, and I had to drive through a stalled front, rain deluges, lightening and a tornado warning to get to the pharmacy where they had left it outside for me since they closed at 5pm. The things we do for cats! Anyway, that was nice of the vet, who called me back right before he closed, to get the pharmacy to expedite that for me since the parma is closed on the weekend.

            I'm going to try this for a couple weeks to a month so see if it helps. This little guy is starting to scratch in the litter box and act like he may be going potty - something he didn't do when I first got him. I've been trying to squeeze poop and pee out of him with no success on the poop and not much on the pee. The bedding is not as wet, so he might be using the litter box some. I am finding little poop balls around the nest, so while he isn't getting them in the box, there is poop coming out of him.

            I finally saw his mother on Friday night. She is also tailless, so I guess he really is a Manx cat. She and Jocko's surviving littermates have been speutered, so there will be no more birth defect kittens from any of them.

            Merlin

            --- In CatVet@yahoogroups.com, michelle fero <michellefero@...> wrote:
            >
            > Merlin,
            >
            > Have you tried maybe adding a little pumpkin to his diet.  I would ask the vet first becuase it works good with cats who are both constipated or have too loose of a stool.  Are you located any chance near a vet school.
            >
            > I had several CRF kitties the last couple of years and we seen alot of different vets and not all vets have the same knowledge. Maybe there is something new outthere that this veternarian isn't aware of.  I would defininatelyl get a 2nd opinion.   I know you are just fostering him right now but perhaps the vet would be willing do check him for a reduced rate.
            >
            > Unforuntaely Manx cats along with other mutated gene cats such as Scottish Fold often have alot of health issues.  ONe of my vet friends loved Scottish Fold cats until she had to put a couple to sleep. Since the folding is due to problem with the cartiledge in their ears it can cause other issues.  In the case of these kittens it affected their breathing and nothing could be done to remedy it.  However she told me that the Dexon Rex and Selkirk Rex cats the mutated gene with them only affects the hair and isn't harmful to the cat. 
            >
            > Thanks so much for trying to help this little guy out. 
            >
            > Blessings,
            > Michelle
            >
            >
            > --- On Fri, 5/1/09, merlinmarshall <merlinmarshall@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: merlinmarshall <merlinmarshall@...>
            > Subject: [CatVet] Re: incontinent tailless cat
            > To: CatVet@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:05 PM
            >

            > Hi,
            >
            >
            >
            > No, no impaction. I worried about that and took him to the shelter vet. X-ray showed normal looking spinal column, but distended bowel and bladder. He seems to have no muscle tone in either of those organs, so when they fill up, they just leak out. The vet expressed both bowel and bladder which were both full. The stool was playdoh consistency, so it was fine. He also seems to have no muscle tone in the anal sphincter, so it is just open. Usually touching or lightly pinching it will cause a pucker reaction, but it did not. According to the vet, very rarely do they get better on their own for whatever reason, and there is no medical treatment. Most likely he would need to have bowel and bladder expressed the rest of his life, several times a day. I was hoping there would be some sort of surgical intervention that could be done, but I guess not. The shelter does not have the staff to do this, and I can't be home all the time to do this.
            >
            >
            >
            > Merlin
            >
            >
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