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Re: [CF] It's the _individual_driver_behavior_, stupid!

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  • Steven Schoeffler
    While I don t support the vandalism, it does remind me that Martin Luther King s job was made easier by having the radical specter of Malcolm X in the wings.
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 4, 2003
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      While I don't support the vandalism, it does remind me that Martin Luther
      King's job was made easier by having the radical specter of Malcolm X in the
      wings.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Lenard Segnitz" <lsegnitz@...>

      > While I may agree with the sentiments of the SUV vandals their actions are
      extremely damaging to the cycling advocacy movement. Motor-heads will not
      discriminate between law-abiding cyclists and eco-terrorist cyclists.
      >
    • Lenard Segnitz
      Or a little closer to home... there is a radical group called The Bicycle People in Vancouver, BC, who advocate the building of Windways
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 4, 2003
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        Or a little closer to home... there is a radical group called "The Bicycle People" in Vancouver, BC, who advocate the building of "Windways" http://www.biketrans.com/, covered, air-conditioned, and elevated bike paths. Perhaps when compared with building gold-plated elevated highways they are cheap. Compared with painted lanes Windways are gold-plated. Even surface bike paths are a bargain next to Windways.
        On the other hand, my wife pointed out that traditional advocates look downright reasonable next to "The Bicycle People". There is something to be said for asking for the stars and then "only" getting the moon.

        Being unreasonable (ie "The Bicycle People") is quite different from being illegal (ie SUV vandals). I can counter balance "The Bicycle People" with suggestions of bike lanes and bike paths. The only thing I can do with the SUV vandals is denounce them, I don't have a counter balance ("I'll only scratch your paint job, I won't slash your tires" ??)

        Lenard Segnitz

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Steven Schoeffler [mailto:steve@...]
        Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 8:39 AM
        To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [CF] It's the _individual_driver_behavior_, stupid!

        While I don't support the vandalism, it does remind me that Martin Luther
        King's job was made easier by having the radical specter of Malcolm X in the
        wings.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Lenard Segnitz" <lsegnitz@...>

        > While I may agree with the sentiments of the SUV vandals their actions are
        extremely damaging to the cycling advocacy movement. Motor-heads will not
        discriminate between law-abiding cyclists and eco-terrorist cyclists.
        >





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      • Lenard Segnitz
        OK, I m going to split some hairs. Vehicle choice has a huge influence on a nation s energy needs. Take all those motorists, confiscate their cars, give each
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 4, 2003
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          OK, I'm going to split some hairs. Vehicle choice has a huge influence on a nation's energy needs.

          Take all those motorists, confiscate their cars, give each and every one of them a pair of sneakers and a bicycle. Voila, American energy needs immediately drops by 30%.

          Now go into each and every home and turn off the furnace and air conditioner. Voila, American energy needs drops a further 30%.

          Now go into each and every American mind and impress apon them a Buddhist, nonmaterialistic philosophy. Voila, American consumer need and the remainder of American energy needs disappear altogether.

          Can we force each and every American to go the full distance? No, of course not. It's a spectrum. On one end are the millionaires with their personal custom-made 737s on the other end are aesthetic monks. Reduce the number of people and/or influence people more toward "aesthetic monk" and the nation's material and energy needs (and "wants") are reduced.

          Lenard Segnitz

          -----Original Message-----
          From: tomfrostjr [mailto:tomfrostjr@...]
          Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:47 PM
          To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [CF] It's the _individual_driver_behavior_, stupid!

          <snip>
          > but we can agree on one thing -- yes, it *is* the individual driver
          > behaviour that matters. every individual driver shares the
          responsibility
          > for all this damage and death, to a greater extent when they choose
          > maximal hyperconsumption, to a lesser extent when they try to
          choose the
          > least damaging, most efficient motorised vehicle.


          TF: Wait a minute - it has relatively little to do with the vehicle
          choice!

          The aspect of "individual driver behavior" that you're talking about
          is different from the one I am. A legally-driven Hummer (not that I'd
          ever want to own such an overpriced-for-its-payload-capacity piece of
          crap) is responsible for fewer of George Bush's bullets in Iraqi
          children than an illegally-driven Corolla. That's because a legally-
          driven vehicle of any type impedes traffic down to "only" 100% of the
          speed limit thereby reducing a road's capacity and discouraging
          motoring, while an illegally-driven vehicle - even if we only count
          tailgating and nothing else - increases a road's capacity by at least
          400% and thereby encourages motoring.

          The enemy is not the size of the vehicles. The enemy is the Right of
          Speed paradigm, or "Nyspspeak", as discussed and opposed at
          groups.yahoo.com/group/RealLibertarianParty


          (snip)
          > but you gotta start somewhere.


          A strategy that starts with the principles set forth in the
          Bicyclists' Rights Triad http://www.newmilfordbike.com/Triad.htm <http://www.newmilfordbike.com/Triad.htm> (the
          granddaddy of which is the principle set forth at
          RealLibertarianParty, about the rights of _all_ slower road users),
          is the only strategy with any chance of success (with the possible
          exception of if Bob Matter gets his hands on nuclear weapons).


          - Tom Frost Jr., who considers the discussions on
          groups.yahoo.com/group/Transport-Policy to be much more intelligent
          than the ones going on here.





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