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Re: [CF] Autoficial Intelligence (was: global warming)

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  • Steven Schoeffler
    Has anyone calculated the subsidized costs of cars and presented them in a clear format on a website somewhere? Steve ... From: Jym Dyer To:
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 9, 2003
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      Has anyone calculated the subsidized costs of cars and presented them in a
      clear format on a website somewhere?

      Steve

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jym Dyer" <jym@...>
      To: <carfree@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 10:37 AM
      Subject: [CF] Autoficial Intelligence (was: global warming)


      > =v= I once worked in AI, and you've got the "greedy search"
      > method described correctly, for what it's worth. The movie
      > _Fast_Cheap,_and_Out_of_Control_ illustrates the concept as
      > applied to robotics.
      >
      > =v= This isn't dwelt on much within either field, but what
      > works on CPUs or in a robotics lab reaches material limitations
      > sooner out in the real world. Except, of course, in the case
      > of cars, where costs are heavily-subsidized and their operators
      > are encouraged to ignore their long-term consequences. An
      > interesting parallel, eh?
      > <_Jym_>
      >
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    • Jym Dyer
      ... =v= Maybe we need a FAQ. Indeed, this comes up so often we might even need to put an URL on every message. :^) The usual place I point people is the
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 9, 2003
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        > Has anyone calculated the subsidized costs of cars and
        > presented them in a clear format on a website somewhere?

        =v= Maybe we need a FAQ. Indeed, this comes up so often we
        might even need to put an URL on every message. :^) The
        usual place I point people is the Victoria Transport Policy
        Institute:

        http://www.vtpi.org/

        =v= However, that doesn't cover every subsidy. Other work
        along the same lines (e.g. Charles Komanoff's, Stanley Hart's)
        includes additional factors, though some of these overlap.
        For example, as Hart has demonstrated, a large percentage of
        city police budgets cover problems caused by cars. But the
        police use cars, pollute, get in accidents, etc., as well.

        =v= Health costs, being "externalized," are often simply
        ignored. It's been estimated that as many people are killed
        by car exhaust as by car collisions. It's also been estimated
        that the manufacture of a car causes as much pollution as the
        car's tailpipe will in its lifetime. Does that mean as many
        people dying from *that* pollution? (I don't really know.)

        =v= The environmental impacts of lead wheel weights, tire dust,
        atmospheric carbon and leaking freon have also been estimated,
        but never included in overviews of car subsidies, as far as I
        can tell.
        <_Jym_>
      • Steven Schoeffler
        I ve perused the vtpi information, which is very good, but as you say doesn t cover every subsidy. I wonder in particular how much of the $500b US military
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 9, 2003
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          I've perused the vtpi information, which is very good, but as you say
          doesn't cover every subsidy. I wonder in particular how much of the $500b US
          military budget is attributable to protecting energy sources, and what that
          works out to per driving mile.

          Steve

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jym Dyer" <jym@...>
          To: <carfree@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 12:55 PM
          Subject: Re: [CF] Autoficial Intelligence (was: global warming)


          > > Has anyone calculated the subsidized costs of cars and
          > > presented them in a clear format on a website somewhere?
          >
          > =v= Maybe we need a FAQ. Indeed, this comes up so often we
          > might even need to put an URL on every message. :^) The
          > usual place I point people is the Victoria Transport Policy
          > Institute:
          >
          > http://www.vtpi.org/
          >
          > =v= However, that doesn't cover every subsidy. Other work
          > along the same lines (e.g. Charles Komanoff's, Stanley Hart's)
          > includes additional factors, though some of these overlap.
          > For example, as Hart has demonstrated, a large percentage of
          > city police budgets cover problems caused by cars. But the
          > police use cars, pollute, get in accidents, etc., as well.
        • De Clarke
          one approach to re-localising the economy: http://www.oikossystems.com/middsolari/index_home.htm I haven t looked any further than this front page which caught
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 9, 2003
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            one approach to re-localising the economy:

            http://www.oikossystems.com/middsolari/index_home.htm

            I haven't looked any further than this front page which caught my
            eye, so I don't know how reputable/valid/effective this initiative
            is.

            de

            --
            .............................................................................
            :De Clarke, Software Engineer UCO/Lick Observatory, UCSC:
            :Mail: de@... | :
            :Web: www.ucolick.org | Don't Fear the Penguins :
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