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RE: [CF] Gasoline $2/gal. in Chicago

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  • Fabien Pichard
    Hello Paul, $3 is pretty good... I like that :) I agree about the SUV, but why would it raise the prices on food and other consumer goods? As far as taxes on
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
      Hello Paul,

      $3 is pretty good... I like that :)
      I agree about the SUV, but why would it raise the prices on food and
      other consumer goods?
      As far as taxes on SUV, in france they have a pretty good system about
      taxes & tabs for vehicule. The higher the horse power the more you pay
      :)
      That's an idea that I am not against... it would be limiting the number
      of monster trucks, like the navigator, expedition and other excursion...
      but I don't know if it would work, the US of A is a country where credit
      cards are a way of life... so people would just charge it...

      - Fabien



      fabien_pichard@...
      "God is a comic playing to an audience that's afraid to laugh."
      -Voltaire (1694-1778)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Pedaldancer@... [mailto:Pedaldancer@...]
      Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:32 PM
      To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [CF] Gasoline $2/gal. in Chicago


      I live in L.A., and on this evenings local news, they were showing gas
      prices in Northern California, as high as 3.00 dollars a gallon.
      They said California has the highest prices in the country. They said
      the demand for oil, was driving up the prices.

      Since I don't drive, I wouldn't mind the prices going up, and in fact I
      wouldn't care if they went up to 10.00 dollars a gallon.
      Except for one thing. Because all these idiots are driving up the gas
      prices with their SUV's, this is going to raise the price of food and
      other consumer goods. As well as everything else. Like people trying to
      heat their homes with oil.
      The government should put a higher tax on the gas for cars and SUV's, to
      help supplement the higher cost of food and oil and consumer goods.
      If people are going to insist on driving these monstrosities, (SUV's),
      they should at least assume the responsibilities of their stupid,
      selfish actions.
      IMHO,
      Paul Esbrandt




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fabien Pichard
      Hello Bob, if you are researching folding bikes, I recommend BikeFriday, they are weird looking but very well built... I wish I d be able to take the bus from
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
        Hello Bob,
        if you are researching folding bikes, I recommend BikeFriday, they are
        weird looking but very well built...

        I wish I'd be able to take the bus from time to time, but here they run
        very low. One example, if I want to go to downtown seattle, I have 3
        buses in the morning, then 3 buses in the evening to come back... and it
        would take over 1.5 hour to get there... I can bike as fast as that!

        -- fabien



        fabien_pichard@...
        "God is a comic playing to an audience that's afraid to laugh."
        -Voltaire (1694-1778)

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Robert J. Matter [mailto:rjmatter@...]
        Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:01 PM
        To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [CF] Gasoline $2/gal. in Chicago


        Fabien Pichard wrote:
        >
        > Hello Bob,
        > 2.18 for premium IS a premium, that's a lot, here in Seattle the max I
        > saw this morning was 2.08... but that's nothing compared to 1.25 per
        > liter in France. that's about $5 per gallon...
        > I just wish the Seattle are would have more common transportation...
        > There is virtually none.
        > This morning, I rode from my house to a business that I am interested
        > in, it's just 22 miles or just one hour... it was pretty cool to know
        > that there is a dedicated trail from the city to the bike shop... I
        like
        > it...
        >
        > -- Fabien

        I am about the same distance from downtown Chicago. Luckily I have a
        few public transportation options. If the weather is decent and I am
        feeling energetic and have time, I ride a bike the whole way and back,
        about half of which is on trails. If I am feeling a little less
        energetic, I can ride to a CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) bus stop
        about 25 minutes away, put my bike on the bus's bike rack, then ride to
        a CTA elevated train station and go in the rest of the way on the train.
        Or I can ride a bike 15 minutes away to a commuter train stop and take
        the train all the way in and be a pedestrian when I get there, or ride
        another bike I sometimes keep downtown. Bikes aren't allowed on the
        commuter train unless they are folded and in a bag and stashed on the
        overhead luggage rack. Regular bikes aren't allowed on CTA trains
        during weekday rush hours. I am investigating getting a folding bike
        for those purposes. NW Indiana where I live also has a limited bus
        service that links to a CTA bus stop, but they don't have bike racks so
        I would need a folding bike to take advantage of that option too. I can
        mix and match any of these options to suit the trip. Sometimes I ride a
        bike to a friend's house a few miles away and catch a ride with my bike
        downtown with him in a mini-pickup truck. Usually once I get downtown I
        need to go an additional 4-8 miles away depending on where I am going.
        One of my volunteer jobs is with the Chicago Saints, volunteers for the
        performing arts. We provide ushers, concession stand workers, coat
        check personnel, office help, etc. for theatre/symphony/opera companies
        throughout the city so my destinations vary. I do other volunteer work
        in Chicago and take advantage of a lot of cultural events and other
        activities as well.

        -Bob Matter
        Hammond, IN
        -----------
        "We've built the best highway system in the history of the world,
        now we have to think about what is everybody else going to do."
        --Rich Olken, www.bikesbelong.org


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Pedaldancer@webtv.net
        The entire country is moved by trucks. Hence, as the price
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
          <<Fabien Pichard asked>>
          <<but why would it raise the prices on food and other consumer goods?>>

          The entire country is moved by trucks. Hence, as the price of oil
          increases, the trucking companies have to raise their prices to pay for
          those increases. It all ends up filtering its way into to our everyday
          lives. That is why our country is so interested in keeping the oil
          flowing cheap, and willing to go to war over it.
          If those prices of oil increase too much, there are dangers of sending
          the entire U.S., into a severe recession, possible depression.
          I remember in the '70's when the oil cartels cut off the oil flow,
          people really panicked. That is when they all started going out and
          buying small Japanese cars.
          I remember they were teaching us in schools, that we were going to have
          to go and find alternatives for oil, so that we would never be put in a
          position like that again.
          That was over 25 years ago, and guess what? Instead of smaller cars and
          alternatives, Americans have decided to drive bigger and more fuel
          consuming vehicles, and go to war to keep the oil flowing. Go figure!

          PaulE
        • Fabien Pichard
          Oh of course... thanks for the explanation Paul. Well in the 70s I was still in france, and we had similar problem. So they started working on smaller and more
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
            Oh of course... thanks for the explanation Paul.
            Well in the 70s I was still in france, and we had similar problem. So
            they started working on smaller and more efficient engines...

            --fabien



            fabien_pichard@...
            "God is a comic playing to an audience that's afraid to laugh."
            -Voltaire (1694-1778)

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Pedaldancer@... [mailto:Pedaldancer@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 10:20 AM
            To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [CF] Gasoline $2/gal. in Chicago


            <<Fabien Pichard asked>>
            <<but why would it raise the prices on food and other consumer goods?>>

            The entire country is moved by trucks. Hence, as the price of oil
            increases, the trucking companies have to raise their prices to pay for
            those increases. It all ends up filtering its way into to our everyday
            lives. That is why our country is so interested in keeping the oil
            flowing cheap, and willing to go to war over it.
            If those prices of oil increase too much, there are dangers of sending
            the entire U.S., into a severe recession, possible depression.
            I remember in the '70's when the oil cartels cut off the oil flow,
            people really panicked. That is when they all started going out and
            buying small Japanese cars.
            I remember they were teaching us in schools, that we were going to have
            to go and find alternatives for oil, so that we would never be put in a
            position like that again.
            That was over 25 years ago, and guess what? Instead of smaller cars and
            alternatives, Americans have decided to drive bigger and more fuel
            consuming vehicles, and go to war to keep the oil flowing. Go figure!

            PaulE



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jym Dyer
            ... =v= Used to be trains, which are far more fuel-efficient. Alas, artificially-low subsidized oil costs have moved far too much onto trucks and even planes.
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
              > The entire country is moved by trucks.

              =v= Used to be trains, which are far more fuel-efficient.
              Alas, artificially-low subsidized oil costs have moved far
              too much onto trucks and even planes.

              =v= So there are (of course) short-term benefits to having
              oil so apparently cheap, but long-term detriments, including
              an entire transportation infrastructure built to waste it.

              > I remember in the '70's when the oil cartels cut off the oil
              > flow, people really panicked. That is when they all started
              > going out and buying small Japanese cars.

              =v= The real panic was about the cost of gas. In constant
              dollars, gas cost more then than now. Even $2/gallon in 2003
              dollars would be cheaper than what it was then.

              > Instead of smaller cars and alternatives, Americans have
              > decided to drive bigger and more fuel consuming vehicles, ...

              =v= Actually, once apparent gas prices came down, Americans
              started to drive their fuel-efficient cars more and further,
              until fuel efficiency overall was pretty moot. The move to
              bigger cars happened in tandem with lower apparent gas prices.

              > ... and go to war to keep the oil flowing.

              =v= Public opinion is sharply divided on that point.
              <_Jym_>
            • David Lane
              ... This article, called The Thirty Year Itch ( http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/10/ma_273_01.html ) addresses this very point. It begins: Three
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
                On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 10:19 AM, Pedaldancer@... wrote:
                > <<Fabien Pichard asked>>
                > <<but why would it raise the prices on food and other consumer
                > goods?>>
                >
                >
                > I remember in the '70's when the oil cartels cut off the oil flow,
                > <some snipped>
                > That was over 25 years ago, and guess what? Instead of smaller cars and
                > <some more snipped>

                This article, called The Thirty Year Itch (
                http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/10/ma_273_01.html )
                addresses this very point. It begins:

                Three decades ago, in the throes of the energy crisis, Washington's
                hawks conceived of a strategy for US control of the Persian Gulf's oil.
                Now, with the same strategists firmly in control of the White House,
                the Bush administration is playing out their script for global
                dominance.

                The author, Robert Dreyfuss was named one of the "best unsung
                investigative journalists working in print" last year by the Columbia
                Journalism Review .









                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bill Volk
                It s $2.10 to $2.25 for REGULAR in San Diego. I m now doing a bike-train-bike commute a few days a week (San Diego area to Irvine). $21.60 RT on AmTrak ...
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
                  It's $2.10 to $2.25 for REGULAR in San Diego.

                  I'm now doing a bike-train-bike commute a few days a week (San Diego area to
                  Irvine). $21.60 RT on AmTrak ... and 36 miles of cycling ... vs. a 140 mile
                  RT car drive with $6 in tolls if I want to avoid traffic.

                  The only bad thing is that the new AmTrak Surfliner bike racks can real
                  scratch your front rim if you are not carefull.

                  Bill Volk
                • David Lane
                  ... Is it? I d like to hear more about this, Jym. I think very few would argue that Oil is not a factor in US Middle East policy. And, I think very few would
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 11, 2003
                    On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 11:31 AM, Jym Dyer wrote:
                    >> ... and go to war to keep the oil flowing.
                    > =v= Public opinion is sharply divided on that point.

                    Is it? I'd like to hear more about this, Jym.

                    I think very few would argue that Oil is not a factor in US Middle East
                    policy. And, I think very few would disagree with the observation that
                    US Middle East policy is now dominated by belligerence in tone and
                    content, if not the talk of war.

                    I think the biggest differences in public opinion would be over how
                    much of a factor oil plays (like 10%? 50%? 100%?), and whether or not
                    that policy influence is the best expression of US international- and
                    multilateralist values.

                    Also, I think we should keep in mind that the perspectives we hear on
                    the corporate news are far from public opinion. What you hear and see
                    is PR for the policies of those who stand to gain significantly if the
                    public adopts certain opinions, including opinions about how we get and
                    use oil.

                    Between that perspective and what (independent, thought-out) opinions
                    you can find among the public, there certainly is sharp division.
                  • David Hansen
                    ... A common claim. I have no idea about the economics of lorries in the USA, but the economics in the UK was looked at some years ago. The Government Economic
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 12, 2003
                      On 11 Mar 2003 at 10:19, Pedaldancer@... wrote:

                      > The entire country is moved by trucks. Hence, as the price of oil
                      > increases, the trucking companies have to raise their prices to pay
                      > for those increases. It all ends up filtering its way into to our
                      > everyday lives.

                      A common claim.

                      I have no idea about the economics of lorries in the USA, but the
                      economics in the UK was looked at some years ago. The Government
                      Economic Service produced a report on this in 1981. It upset the road
                      lobby so much it was suppressed. Only 5-10% of a typical company's
                      costs are accounted for by transport and 70% of these transport costs
                      are terminal costs.


                      --
                      David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
                      I will *always* explain why I revoke a key, unless the UK
                      government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
                    • Eric Snyder
                      ... oil ... pay ... road ... costs ... David: What was the price of gas/petrol in 1981 compared to today? Surely the same ratios wouldn t apply 22 years later?
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 12, 2003
                        --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "David Hansen" <davidh@s...> wrote:
                        > On 11 Mar 2003 at 10:19, Pedaldancer@w... wrote:
                        >
                        > > The entire country is moved by trucks. Hence, as the price of
                        oil
                        > > increases, the trucking companies have to raise their prices to
                        pay
                        > > for those increases. It all ends up filtering its way into to our
                        > > everyday lives.
                        >
                        > A common claim.
                        >
                        > I have no idea about the economics of lorries in the USA, but the
                        > economics in the UK was looked at some years ago. The Government
                        > Economic Service produced a report on this in 1981. It upset the
                        road
                        > lobby so much it was suppressed. Only 5-10% of a typical company's
                        > costs are accounted for by transport and 70% of these transport
                        costs
                        > are terminal costs.
                        >


                        David:
                        What was the price of gas/petrol in 1981 compared to today? Surely
                        the same ratios wouldn't apply 22 years later?


                        Eric Snyder
                        TD Friends of the Environment Foundation
                        http://www.tcm.com/egs.htm
                        ================================
                      • dubluth
                        I was recently looking into folding or seperable bikes (my motivation was to have something to check as normal airline luggage). A site with a lot of info on
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 12, 2003
                          I was recently looking into folding or seperable bikes (my motivation
                          was to have something to check as normal airline luggage). A site
                          with a lot of info on folding bicycles is
                          <http://www.nordicgroup.us/fold/>. An internet search may turn up
                          info on other brands not included in that review, but this seems to
                          be a good place to get some sense of what is out there.

                          Regarding Fabien's recommendation: Bike Friday is highly regarded,
                          but based on what I read from the above mentioned site, it folds
                          relatively slowly. That may have changed since the review was writen.

                          When I looked on e-bay, a number of what appeared to be older Dahons
                          were being offered for sale. These older ones may not be worth
                          owning. A later model Dahon may be a good bet, as might be a
                          Brompton or Bazooka for something to fold quickly at the transit
                          platform.


                          --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Fabien Pichard"
                          <fabien_pichard@a...> wrote:
                          > Hello Bob,
                          > if you are researching folding bikes, I recommend BikeFriday, they
                          are
                          > weird looking but very well built...
                          >
                          > I wish I'd be able to take the bus from time to time, but here they
                          run
                          -----snip
                        • David Hansen
                          ... I would be happy for more work to be done, but I imagine that they are much the same. The typical amount of transport has gone up through longer journeys,
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 13, 2003
                            On 12 Mar 2003 at 21:34, Eric Snyder wrote:

                            >>the economics in the UK was looked at some
                            >> years ago. The Government Economic Service produced a report on
                            >>this in 1981. It upset the road lobby so much it was suppressed.
                            >>Only 5-10% of a typical company's costs are accounted for by
                            >>transport and 70% of these transport costs are terminal costs.

                            > Surely the same ratios wouldn't apply 22 years later?

                            I would be happy for more work to be done, but I imagine that they
                            are much the same.

                            The typical amount of transport has gone up through longer journeys,
                            but the cost of transport has gone down (the two are related).
                            Terminal costs are not that different.


                            --
                            David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
                            I will *always* explain why I revoke a key, unless the UK
                            government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
                          • Rachel
                            Thanks for the link as I ve recently started looking for folding bikes. Tucson AZ has recently allowed you to bring a folding bike on the bus. Before all
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 15, 2003
                              Thanks for the link as I've recently started looking for folding
                              bikes. Tucson AZ has recently allowed you to bring a folding bike on
                              the bus. Before all bikes had to go in the bike rack and it could
                              only hold two. With the good biking weather we have here the bike
                              racks are often full, especially on the weekends on the routes
                              heading out to good riding areas.

                              --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "dubluth" <dubluth@y...> wrote:
                              > I was recently looking into folding or seperable bikes (my
                              motivation
                              > was to have something to check as normal airline luggage). A site
                              > with a lot of info on folding bicycles is
                              > <http://www.nordicgroup.us/fold/>. An internet search may turn up
                              > info on other brands not included in that review, but this seems to
                              > be a good place to get some sense of what is out there.
                              >
                              > Regarding Fabien's recommendation: Bike Friday is highly regarded,
                              > but based on what I read from the above mentioned site, it folds
                              > relatively slowly. That may have changed since the review was
                              writen.
                              >
                              > When I looked on e-bay, a number of what appeared to be older
                              Dahons
                              > were being offered for sale. These older ones may not be worth
                              > owning. A later model Dahon may be a good bet, as might be a
                              > Brompton or Bazooka for something to fold quickly at the transit
                              > platform.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Fabien Pichard"
                              > <fabien_pichard@a...> wrote:
                              > > Hello Bob,
                              > > if you are researching folding bikes, I recommend BikeFriday,
                              they
                              > are
                              > > weird looking but very well built...
                              > >
                              > > I wish I'd be able to take the bus from time to time, but here
                              they
                              > run
                              > -----snip
                            • jamesjfitz
                              ... Diego area to ... 140 mile ... real ... That s 140 mile RT/week, right? Anyone would be NUTS to do that every day. Jim
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 16, 2003
                                --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Volk" <bvolk@z...> wrote:
                                > It's $2.10 to $2.25 for REGULAR in San Diego.
                                >
                                > I'm now doing a bike-train-bike commute a few days a week (San
                                Diego area to
                                > Irvine). $21.60 RT on AmTrak ... and 36 miles of cycling ... vs. a
                                140 mile
                                > RT car drive with $6 in tolls if I want to avoid traffic.
                                >
                                > The only bad thing is that the new AmTrak Surfliner bike racks can
                                real
                                > scratch your front rim if you are not carefull.
                                >
                                > Bill Volk

                                That's 140 mile RT/week, right? Anyone would be NUTS to do that
                                every day.

                                Jim
                              • Bill Volk
                                ... Every Day ... 4 to 5 days a week. 41 mpg car. First regular paycheck in over two years. After 12 years of CTO/VP work in computer tech.. the dot-com
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 17, 2003
                                  jamesjfitz asks:

                                  > --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Volk" <bvolk@z...> wrote:
                                  > > It's $2.10 to $2.25 for REGULAR in San Diego.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm now doing a bike-train-bike commute a few days a week (San
                                  > Diego area to
                                  > > Irvine). $21.60 RT on AmTrak ... and 36 miles of cycling ... vs. a
                                  > 140 mile
                                  > > RT car drive with $6 in tolls if I want to avoid traffic.
                                  > >
                                  > > The only bad thing is that the new AmTrak Surfliner bike racks can
                                  > real
                                  > > scratch your front rim if you are not carefull.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bill Volk
                                  >
                                  > That's 140 mile RT/week, right? Anyone would be NUTS to do that
                                  > every day.

                                  Every Day ... 4 to 5 days a week. 41 mpg car.

                                  First regular paycheck in over two years. After 12 years of CTO/VP work in
                                  computer tech.. the dot-com crash killed most of the work off. So I
                                  basically had no regular paycheck for half of 2000, all of 2001, and a good
                                  chunk of 2002.

                                  Sucks.

                                  Bill Volk
                                • Fabien Pichard
                                  Bill, I am in the same position as you are... after 14 years in the high tech and being laid off last november, I don t have any revenue, apart from what I set
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 17, 2003
                                    Bill, I am in the same position as you are...

                                    after 14 years in the high tech and being laid off last november, I
                                    don't have any revenue, apart from what I set aside...
                                    Now I am exited about the fact that I am checking a bike shop out, to
                                    buy... :)
                                    No more BS from the politician in the corporate environment... no more
                                    insane deadlines to reach with no resources...
                                    Sure, I won't get rich quick, but it is worth the effort and the joy :)

                                    --fabien



                                    fabien_pichard@...
                                    "God is a comic playing to an audience that's afraid to laugh."
                                    -Voltaire (1694-1778)

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Bill Volk [mailto:bvolk@...]
                                    Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 6:46 PM
                                    To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [CF] Re: Gasoline $2/gal. in Chicago


                                    jamesjfitz asks:

                                    > --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Volk" <bvolk@z...> wrote:
                                    > > It's $2.10 to $2.25 for REGULAR in San Diego.
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm now doing a bike-train-bike commute a few days a week (San
                                    > Diego area to
                                    > > Irvine). $21.60 RT on AmTrak ... and 36 miles of cycling ... vs. a
                                    > 140 mile
                                    > > RT car drive with $6 in tolls if I want to avoid traffic.
                                    > >
                                    > > The only bad thing is that the new AmTrak Surfliner bike racks can
                                    > real
                                    > > scratch your front rim if you are not carefull.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill Volk
                                    >
                                    > That's 140 mile RT/week, right? Anyone would be NUTS to do that
                                    > every day.

                                    Every Day ... 4 to 5 days a week. 41 mpg car.

                                    First regular paycheck in over two years. After 12 years of CTO/VP work
                                    in
                                    computer tech.. the dot-com crash killed most of the work off. So I
                                    basically had no regular paycheck for half of 2000, all of 2001, and a
                                    good
                                    chunk of 2002.

                                    Sucks.

                                    Bill Volk



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                                    <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egrou
                                    pmail/S=:HM/A=1481646/rand=439880862>

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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • RIIN GILL
                                    ... Wow! That s really exciting! I hope that works out for you. That would be great. ... And you would be doing something you believe in. You d be part of
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 19, 2003
                                      On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Fabien Pichard wrote:

                                      > Now I am exited about the fact that I am checking a bike shop out, to
                                      > buy... :)

                                      Wow! That's really exciting! I hope that works out for you. That would
                                      be great.

                                      > Sure, I won't get rich quick, but it is worth the effort and the joy :)

                                      And you would be doing something you believe in. You'd be part of the
                                      solution. Good for you!

                                      ***********************************************************
                                      Riin Gill
                                      Interlibrary Loan 734-615-6168
                                      Taubman Medical Library fax 734-763-1473
                                      University of Michigan
                                      ***********************************************************
                                      If you were riding your bike, you'd be having fun by now.
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