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Re: [CF] Digest Number 3060

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  • Bill MacLane
    Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to pollute the air
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 20, 2010
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      Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the
      cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to
      pollute the air and cause congestion in the cities. IF big oil and some
      others were out of the picture or used their brains instead of greed we'd
      have hydrogen fuel cells running all the cars and probably one large one in
      every neighborhood powering houses; no pollution; no electirc gird.

      Bill

      On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:33 AM, AnnaLisa Wiley <carfree@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > �Electric cars pose no threat to Big Oil.�
      >
      > You�ve got to be kidding! Why do you think it has taken so long to get
      > solar and wind power to a point of actually being usable? In the 70�s, Big
      > Oil bought up all the new alternative energy patents they could get their
      > hands on using bogus companies as fronts and then shelved the patents.
      > That�s why, in the 90�s we had such a big alternative energy boom when those
      > shelved patents expired and the inventions could finally be used.
      >
      > We have had micro-technology for years, doesn�t it strike you as odd that
      > it has taken so long to develop batteries powerful enough to run cars and
      > bikes?
      >
      > -AnnaLisa
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • emmy koponen
      thinking now we owe china so much that the mess is so grand that they have a monopoly on solar , wind and all hopeful energies. pedal on and be careful! so
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 1, 2010
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        thinking now we owe china so much that the mess is so grand that they have a monopoly on solar , wind and all hopeful energies. pedal on and be careful! so many are permanently out to lunch. emmy

        Vulnerable are we like infants
        We need eachother's care
        Or we will suffer.

        St. Catherine of Sienna




        ________________________________
        From: Bill MacLane <billmaclane@...>
        To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 5:38:01 AM
        Subject: Re: [CF] Digest Number 3060

        Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the
        cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to
        pollute the air and cause congestion in the cities. IF big oil and some
        others were out of the picture or used their brains instead of greed we'd
        have hydrogen fuel cells running all the cars and probably one large one in
        every neighborhood powering houses; no pollution; no electirc gird.

        Bill

        On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:33 AM, AnnaLisa Wiley <carfree@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > “Electric cars pose no threat to Big Oil.”
        >
        > You’ve got to be kidding! Why do you think it has taken so long to get
        > solar and wind power to a point of actually being usable? In the 70’s, Big
        > Oil bought up all the new alternative energy patents they could get their
        > hands on using bogus companies as fronts and then shelved the patents.
        > That’s why, in the 90’s we had such a big alternative energy boom when those
        > shelved patents expired and the inventions could finally be used.
        >
        > We have had micro-technology for years, doesn’t it strike you as odd that
        > it has taken so long to develop batteries powerful enough to run cars and
        > bikes?
        >
        > -AnnaLisa
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • justice99645
        OK, I need to comment on this.. I m not a big fan of the oil companies or GM BUT.. that one wasn t their fault. The GM conspiracy wasn t to put buses on the
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 2, 2010
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          OK, I need to comment on this..

          I'm not a big fan of the oil companies or GM BUT.. that one wasn't their fault.

          The GM conspiracy wasn't to put buses on the roads, just to manipulate what buses and equipment were being used; the Bradford-Snell conspiracy theory was soundly debunked by Adler years ago, but an enterprising sixth grader with a timeline could have seen that the theory wasn't panning out.

          The loss of the Red Cars wasn't because some moustache-curling black hat wearing CEO had an evil plan ala Roger Rabbit. Rather, it was because the Red Cars hit the end of their serviceable life with no money available to repair them, and a host of suburbs blocking any attempt to get them the needed funds.

          The same story played out in cities around the world where GM was nowhere in sight. It failed to play out in a couple of cases - such as Melbourne - simply because those cities had been so slow to put tram lines in that when other cities were ripping them out in favor of shiny streetcars, they still had new systems with lots of life ahead of them.

          Second, I don't see the fascination with hydrogen; it's no solution. Hydrogen cells are just a variation on a battery, with a theoretical 33% loss rate; you'll still need to invest in the power plants to generate the 10+ Tw of power needed every day by today's traffic to zoom about in their massive vehicles on a lark.

          Maybe we should follow the Sierra Club' suggestion in that regard and invest heavily in nuclear power plants, but most people tend to react badly to that idea. The usual solution thus far has been to rely on coal plants, and that would create a noteworthy net increase in pollution/CO2 emissions per capita.

          Seriously, where do you think hydrogen comes from? The hydrogen fairies?

          --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, Bill MacLane <billmaclane@...> wrote:
          > Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the
          > cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to
          > pollute the air and cause congestion in the cities. IF big oil and some
          > others were out of the picture or used their brains instead of greed we'd
          > have hydrogen fuel cells running all the cars and probably one large one in
          > every neighborhood powering houses; no pollution; no electirc gird.
          >
          > Bill
        • George Keagle
          The solution, of course, is a totally free market. But alas, 98% of the people believe government fulfills a socially useful purpose and they will continue
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 2, 2010
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            The solution, of course, is a totally free market.

            But alas, 98% of "the people" believe government fulfills a socially useful purpose and they will continue to look to "policymakers" for solutions. "And an unregulated free market just doesn't work......does it???" Hope springs eternal.

            Few want to truly accept the reality that government by its very nature (I normally say "government employees", since "government" doesn't exist -- forget the nice slogan, "...we are a government of laws, not men...") government always follows the money. Big money interests will always find ways to make clandestine concordats with senators and congressmen and prime ministers and presidents to "pass laws" that almost always have different effects than their stated purpose -- effects hopefully amenable to the lobbyists involved, but will keep the socialistically inclined sheeple satisfied.

            I became car free in December for a number of reasons, none of them to associate me with any "reduce carbon footprint" movements or the like:

            1. I like staying healthy (I'm probably as healthy as any 73 year-old man or woman in Des Moines, IA). I'm an avid biker.

            2. I like frugality and saving resources for my grandchildren now approaching college age and needing of "help".

            3. I hate the idea of feeding insurance companies who have crawled in bed with employees of civil government to force me under threat of violence to purchase their products.

            4. I enjoy relative freedom from men and women in state costumes attempting to urge me to "show respect" for them and/or their laws.

            With all due respect,

            Geo. Keagle




            ________________________________
            From: justice99645 <JusticeZero@...>
            To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 11:33:42 AM
            Subject: [CF] Re: Digest Number 3060


            OK, I need to comment on this..

            I'm not a big fan of the oil companies or GM BUT.. that one wasn't their fault.

            The GM conspiracy wasn't to put buses on the roads, just to manipulate what buses and equipment were being used; the Bradford-Snell conspiracy theory was soundly debunked by Adler years ago, but an enterprising sixth grader with a timeline could have seen that the theory wasn't panning out.

            The loss of the Red Cars wasn't because some moustache-curling black hat wearing CEO had an evil plan ala Roger Rabbit. Rather, it was because the Red Cars hit the end of their serviceable life with no money available to repair them, and a host of suburbs blocking any attempt to get them the needed funds.

            The same story played out in cities around the world where GM was nowhere in sight. It failed to play out in a couple of cases - such as Melbourne - simply because those cities had been so slow to put tram lines in that when other cities were ripping them out in favor of shiny streetcars, they still had new systems with lots of life ahead of them.

            Second, I don't see the fascination with hydrogen; it's no solution. Hydrogen cells are just a variation on a battery, with a theoretical 33% loss rate; you'll still need to invest in the power plants to generate the 10+ Tw of power needed every day by today's traffic to zoom about in their massive vehicles on a lark.

            Maybe we should follow the Sierra Club' suggestion in that regard and invest heavily in nuclear power plants, but most people tend to react badly to that idea. The usual solution thus far has been to rely on coal plants, and that would create a noteworthy net increase in pollution/CO2 emissions per capita.

            Seriously, where do you think hydrogen comes from? The hydrogen fairies?

            --- In CarFree@yahoogroups .com, Bill MacLane <billmaclane@ ...> wrote:
            > Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the
            > cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to
            > pollute the air and cause congestion in the cities. IF big oil and some
            > others were out of the picture or used their brains instead of greed we'd
            > have hydrogen fuel cells running all the cars and probably one large one in
            > every neighborhood powering houses; no pollution; no electirc gird.
            >
            > Bill







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Hansen
            ... I think your conception of around the world is largely restricted to around the English speaking world (and to a fair extent France). In many places on
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 3, 2010
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              On 2 Mar 2010 at 17:33, justice99645 wrote:

              > The loss of the Red Cars wasn't because some moustache-curling black hat
              > wearing CEO had an evil plan ala Roger Rabbit. Rather, it was because the
              > Red Cars hit the end of their serviceable life with no money available to
              > repair them, and a host of suburbs blocking any attempt to get them the
              > needed funds.
              >
              > The same story played out in cities around the world where GM was nowhere
              > in sight. It failed to play out in a couple of cases - such as Melbourne -

              I think your conception of "around the world" is largely restricted to
              "around the English speaking world" (and to a fair extent France).

              In many places on the mainland of Europe and in Japan trams never
              stoped running and they have been gradually improved over time by
              politicians who were far more sensible than the ones in the English
              speaking world (and much of France).

              Was it really accidental that all these politicians independently made
              the same mistakes at the same time? Sounds unlikely to me. That need
              not mean a conspiracy, though that is certainly a possibility, another
              possibility is a wave of cultural delusion to do with thinking
              everybody could and wanted to travel everywhere by car which swept them
              all up.




              --
              David Hansen, Edinburgh
              I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents
              me
              http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/ukpga_20000023_en_8#pt3-pb3-l1g54
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