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Re: Texas Dept. of Transportation on how much road gas taxes pay for

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  • fred_dot_u
    It would appear from those statistics that even those who drive motor vehicles and pay fuel taxes and property taxes just as many of us cyclist pay, also do
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 10, 2008
      It would appear from those statistics that even those who drive motor
      vehicles and pay fuel taxes and property taxes just as many of us
      cyclist pay, also do not pay for the road. It's one of those comments I
      hear from people who think bicycles don't belong on the road "because
      they don't pay the same taxes." I'm going to have some good-natured fun
      the next time someone tries that line on me.


      --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Miller
      <christophermiller@...> wrote:
      >
      > An interesting web page from the Texas Department of Transportation on
      > how much of road'sconstruction/upkeep is actually paid for by gas
      taxes:
      >
      >
      http://www.keeptexasmoving.com/index.php/news/Do_Roads_Pay_for_Themselve\
      s%3F
      >
      > ==========================================================


      Clipped most of text for clarity :-)
    • Jym Dyer
      ... =v= If I understood this correctly, you re saying that motorists don t pay the full costs of their mode of transportation, even when you add in their
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 10, 2008
        > It would appear from those statistics that even those who
        > drive motor vehicles and pay fuel taxes and property taxes
        > just as many of us cyclist pay, also do not pay for the road.

        =v= If I understood this correctly, you're saying that motorists
        don't pay the full costs of their mode of transportation, even
        when you add in their contributions to the general revenue? I'm
        not surprised.

        =v= We've long known that motorist taxes and fees (car and gas
        taxes, registration fees, tolls, fines, etc.) don't cover their
        costs, and the shortfall comes from the general revenue. You'll
        hear rants (often on motorist-pandering drive-time radio) about
        motorists having all sorts of entitlements because they pay so
        much, and indeed they *do* pay a lot, but it still doesn't cover
        their costs. Stanley Hart in particular did some work on costs
        that are overlooked, and one huge sector is emergency services
        and law enforcement. Motorist-panderers make a big fuss over
        parking and speeding tickets ("revenue enhancement," they say),
        again overlooking the fact that this doesn't cover costs.

        =v= The general revenue is usually mostly based on property
        taxes, and based on property values. Property values are
        generally highest in urban areas, which are the most carfree
        places of all. So the carfree not only subsidize motorists
        by not costing nearly as much as they do, but carfree urban-
        dwellers give them disproportionately greater subsidy, since
        we're being taxed at a higher rate to pay for them!
        <_Jym_>
      • David Hansen
        ... In the UK, taxation from motorists used to be ring-fenced and used for roads. However, this only ever paid for up to 50% of the cost of *improvements* to
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 11, 2008
          On 10 Jul 2008 at 20:55, Christopher Miller wrote:

          > Just like your car, it never is. You may have paid the note, but
          > maintenance and fuel costs go on as long as you own the vehicle. Once a
          > road is built, maintenance and rehabilitation costs last its entire life,
          > generally about 40 years.

          In the UK, taxation from motorists used to be ring-fenced and used for
          roads. However, this only ever paid for up to 50% of the cost of
          *improvements* to main roads (and up to 25% of the cost of
          *improvements* to lesser roads), the rest came from general taxation.
          Maintenance of roads always came out of general taxation.

          There is another issue. In the UK public assets are expected to earn a
          return on the investment. IIRC 8% is still the figure that is used.
          Given that there are very few tolls in the UK this money has to come
          from taxation. All taxation on motorists amounts to less than this 8%
          return, leaving nothing for work on the roads.

          As was said by the former chairman of a railway freight operator in the
          UK, roads are the last great Stalinist enterprise.







          --
          David Hansen, Edinburgh
          I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents
          me
          http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
        • vurt456
          This is a great article, thanks for posting it. I get so frustrated with people who demand that public transit/bike lanes/etc. need to pay for themselves
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 11, 2008
            This is a great article, thanks for posting it. I get so frustrated
            with people who demand that public transit/bike lanes/etc. need to
            "pay for themselves" when it's obvious that roads don't pay for
            themselves either!

            Michelle
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