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Re: [CF] hitch hiking

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  • Rachel Alger
    Simon, I used to hitchhike when I was a young teenager in WA state and in my very late teens in NY state. When I drove, I picked up hitchhikers. The most
    Message 1 of 23 , May 2, 2006
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      Simon,

      I used to hitchhike when I was a young teenager in WA state and in my
      very late teens in NY state. When I drove, I picked up hitchhikers.
      The most interesting hitchhiker I picked up was a circus performer. He
      gave me a picture of one of his "acts" (piercing his face through both
      cheeks with a hanger). St. Giles is his name. I once picked up some
      hippies near Woodstock who left the gallons of bottled water they had
      walked into town to buy in my car. I think I realized it the next day
      and left the water where I dropped them off. Those days are filed away
      with the many other stupid things I did and lived to talk about.

      Rachel

      On 5/2/06, Simon Norton <S.Norton@...> wrote:
      > I suspect that hitch hiking went out of fashion because of the perception of
      > risk among both hitch hikers and motorists who pick them up.
      >
      > As a thought experiment, I have often wondered what would happen if motorists
      > had a legal obligation to stop for hitch hikers. Under a utilitarian
      > calculation, the time taken by the motorist to stop is so much less than the
      > time saved by the hitch hiker when he/she gets a lift that it is a clear plus
      > for society.
      >
      > The above condition is the only situation in which I would even contemplate
      > hitch hiking as a substitute for rural public transport. Otherwise I would be
      > concerned that it might undermine its viability. What I'd really like would be a
      > "gentleman's agreement" (not of course restricted to the male sex) that people
      > only hitch hiked when they were in some form of difficulty (e.g. if they'd gone
      > walking, lost their way and missed the last bus back).
      >
      > Simon Norton
      >
      >
      >
      > Problem? Email: CarFree-owners@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      Chicago Cycling Chick
    • Bling Williams
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4965034.stm Doesn t mention the car lifestyle in the whole article! S http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/ www.celyn.org
      Message 2 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4965034.stm

        Doesn't mention the car lifestyle in the whole article!

        S



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      • John O. Andersen
        No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006 [Non-text
        Message 3 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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        • De Clarke
          ... yes i noticed that too :-) gee, doh, what can the difference be? similar articles have been written about the mysterious healthiness of the French despite
          Message 4 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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            >>
            >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4965034.stm
            >>
            >> Doesn't mention the car lifestyle in the whole article!
            >>

            yes i noticed that too :-)

            gee, doh, what can the difference be?

            similar articles have been written about the mysterious
            healthiness of the French despite their croissants, cafe
            au lait, gateaux, rich sauces, etc. no mention of
            urban France having excellent bus and rail, and rural France
            not being Walmartised and carburbified.

            de


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          • renegadebuddhacoach
            I am wondering if it may be that Americans are more apt to see themself as sick and thus self report it. I would like to see more hard data such as number of
            Message 5 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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              I am wondering if it may be that Americans are more apt to see themself
              as sick and thus self report it. I would like to see more hard data
              such as number of people in the helth care system with a diagnoses
              rather that just a self report
            • whistling_lass
              Well, we have better teeth, nah, nah. :-) Marcy
              Message 6 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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                Well, we have better teeth, nah, nah. :-)

                Marcy
              • Bling Williams
                whistling_lass wrote: Well, we have better teeth, nah, nah. :-) Marcy Oh, thats catching on over here When I were a teenager it was
                Message 7 of 23 , May 4, 2006
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                  whistling_lass <bonobo@...> wrote: Well, we have better teeth, nah, nah. :-)

                  Marcy




                  Oh, thats catching on over here When I were a teenager it was very rare to see anyone with a teeth brace. I was teased non-stop. Now my daughter is 14 its the in thing.
                  Did you ever see The Onion story 'Dentists can't get nations teeth any darned whiter'? Very funny.
                  We're turning into you! Orange poeple with super white teeth! Eek. And SUV's. Argh.
                  We'll all be talking funny next ;-)

                  heehee

                  S


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                • Bling Williams
                  There is that. I think Americans are more inclined to go to the doctors over anything than we are. I had friends taking kids for sore throats! But didn t that
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 4, 2006
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                    There is that. I think Americans are more inclined to go to the doctors over anything than we are. I had friends taking kids for sore throats!
                    But didn't that data come from levels of Diabetes?
                    I don't think Brits have long before we get the same sort of figures. We now have 1 in4 kids as overweight or obese. Junk food and cars are probably to blame. So many people drive their kids to school and wont let them out to play. Fear of cars and strangers keeps these kids indoors.
                    And fat kids oftengrow up into unhealthy adults :-(
                    I think we are the unhealthiest nation in Europe. Even beating the french who all smoke like chimneys and drink like fishes ;-)

                    S

                    renegadebuddhacoach <renegadebuddhacoach@...> wrote:
                    I am wondering if it may be that Americans are more apt to see themself
                    as sick and thus self report it. I would like to see more hard data
                    such as number of people in the helth care system with a diagnoses
                    rather that just a self report






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                  • Whitney Turner
                    According to a previous resident of Alaska, it s a requirement up there.
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 8, 2006
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                      According to a previous resident of Alaska, it's a requirement up there.

                      At 04:38 PM 5/2/2006, Simon Norton wrote:
                      >I suspect that hitch hiking went out of fashion because of the perception of
                      >risk among both hitch hikers and motorists who pick them up.
                      >
                      >As a thought experiment, I have often wondered what would happen if motorists
                      >had a legal obligation to stop for hitch hikers. Under a utilitarian
                      >calculation, the time taken by the motorist to stop is so much less than the
                      >time saved by the hitch hiker when he/she gets a lift that it is a clear plus
                      >for society.
                    • Paul Cooley
                      I just hitch-hiked down from the mountains after a backpacking trip. It was the fourth time in my forty years that I tried it, and it always feels very weird
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 27, 2006
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                        I just hitch-hiked down from the mountains after a backpacking trip.
                        It was the fourth time in my forty years that I tried it, and it always
                        feels very weird to me to walk backwards down the road sticking out my
                        thumb. But it only took about fifteen minutes before someone stopped
                        and gave me a ride. Perhaps coming down from a mountain is a
                        specialized situation, but my perception is that it is probably easier
                        to hitch-hike than one might think.

                        I'd have to say, though, that I would be nervous the entire time if I
                        were trying to cross the country that way. I like to rant against our
                        fear-based society, but that doesn't mean that some of that particular
                        aspect of our culture hasn't seeped in.

                        Paul B. Cooley
                        Santa Fe, NM
                        http://carfreefamily.blogspot.com
                        On May 8, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Whitney Turner wrote:

                        > According to a previous resident of Alaska, it's a requirement up
                        > there.
                        >
                        > At 04:38 PM 5/2/2006, Simon Norton wrote:
                        >> I suspect that hitch hiking went out of fashion because of the
                        >> perception of
                        >> risk among both hitch hikers and motorists who pick them up.
                        >>
                        >> As a thought experiment, I have often wondered what would happen if
                        >> motorists
                        >> had a legal obligation to stop for hitch hikers. Under a utilitarian
                        >> calculation, the time taken by the motorist to stop is so much less
                        >> than the
                        >> time saved by the hitch hiker when he/she gets a lift that it is a
                        >> clear plus
                        >> for society.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Problem? Email: CarFree-owners@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Simon Baddeley
                        Good for you but I agree about the seeping in of fear and, worse, the possibility that it is reasonable, especially as the diminished number of hitchhikers and
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 27, 2006
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                          Good for you but I agree about the seeping in of fear and, worse, the
                          possibility that it is reasonable, especially as the diminished number of
                          hitchhikers and pickers up may have left a larger complement of predators of
                          both kinds in the pool that remains. You have got to be a bit different to
                          hitch and give hitches and this means some exceptional good and some
                          exceptionally bad but not the greater complement of the population who might
                          once have taken the phenomenon of hitchhiking entirely for granted. Now your
                          motives will be a source of curiosity to all and sundry including the
                          police and may well be misconstrued as having more to do with giving and
                          accepting rides. Not for nothing do we use the phrase ³taken for a ride² in
                          the way we do. If we have an energy crisis or major breakdown of public
                          transport in cities and the insurance liability issues could be sorted
                          giving and seeking rides could swiftly become acceptable ­ in the meantime I
                          will cycle and walk at every opportunity. S


                          From: Paul Cooley <pcooley@...>
                          Reply-To: <CarFree@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 23:34:37 -0600
                          To: <CarFree@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [CF] hitch hiking

                          I just hitch-hiked down from the mountains after a backpacking trip.
                          It was the fourth time in my forty years that I tried it, and it always
                          feels very weird to me to walk backwards down the road sticking out my
                          thumb. But it only took about fifteen minutes before someone stopped
                          and gave me a ride. Perhaps coming down from a mountain is a
                          specialized situation, but my perception is that it is probably easier
                          to hitch-hike than one might think.

                          I'd have to say, though, that I would be nervous the entire time if I
                          were trying to cross the country that way. I like to rant against our
                          fear-based society, but that doesn't mean that some of that particular
                          aspect of our culture hasn't seeped in.

                          Paul B. Cooley
                          Santa Fe, NM
                          http://carfreefamily.blogspot.com
                          On May 8, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Whitney Turner wrote:

                          > According to a previous resident of Alaska, it's a requirement up
                          > there.
                          >
                          > At 04:38 PM 5/2/2006, Simon Norton wrote:
                          >> I suspect that hitch hiking went out of fashion because of the
                          >> perception of
                          >> risk among both hitch hikers and motorists who pick them up.
                          >>
                          >> As a thought experiment, I have often wondered what would happen if
                          >> motorists
                          >> had a legal obligation to stop for hitch hikers. Under a utilitarian
                          >> calculation, the time taken by the motorist to stop is so much less
                          >> than the
                          >> time saved by the hitch hiker when he/she gets a lift that it is a
                          >> clear plus
                          >> for society.
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bling Williams
                          I have hitched many times but only when my partner has been with me. I d never do it alone. Shyrley Paul Cooley wrote: I just
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 28, 2006
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                            I have hitched many times but only when my partner has been with me. I'd never do it alone.

                            Shyrley

                            Paul Cooley <pcooley@...> wrote:
                            I just hitch-hiked down from the mountains after a backpacking trip.
                            It was the fourth time in my forty years that I tried it, and it always
                            feels very weird to me to walk backwards down the road sticking out my
                            thumb. But it only took about fifteen minutes before someone stopped
                            and gave me a ride. Perhaps coming down from a mountain is a
                            specialized situation, but my perception is that it is probably easier
                            to hitch-hike than one might think.

                            I'd have to say, though, that I would be nervous the entire time if I
                            were trying to cross the country that way. I like to rant against our
                            fear-based society, but that doesn't mean that some of that particular
                            aspect of our culture hasn't seeped in.

                            Paul B. Cooley
                            Santa Fe, NM
                            http://carfreefamily.blogspot.com
                            On May 8, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Whitney Turner wrote:

                            > According to a previous resident of Alaska, it's a requirement up
                            > there.
                            >
                            > At 04:38 PM 5/2/2006, Simon Norton wrote:
                            >> I suspect that hitch hiking went out of fashion because of the
                            >> perception of
                            >> risk among both hitch hikers and motorists who pick them up.
                            >>
                            >> As a thought experiment, I have often wondered what would happen if
                            >> motorists
                            >> had a legal obligation to stop for hitch hikers. Under a utilitarian
                            >> calculation, the time taken by the motorist to stop is so much less
                            >> than the
                            >> time saved by the hitch hiker when he/she gets a lift that it is a
                            >> clear plus
                            >> for society.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Problem? Email: CarFree-owners@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            Problem? Email: CarFree-owners@yahoogroups.com




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                            Automotive transport Environment

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                          • whistling_lass
                            I remember being specifically taught both things: don t hitchhike, b/c an axe murderer or rapist might pick you up, and don t pick up a hitchhiker, b/c he
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 28, 2006
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                              I remember being specifically taught both things: don't hitchhike, b/c
                              an axe murderer or rapist might pick you up, and don't pick up a
                              hitchhiker, b/c he might be an axe murderer or rapist.

                              I wonder, though, since it's basically "common safety knowledge" to
                              NOT hitch rides and to NOT pick up hitchers, might that not leave
                              people more vulnerable? In other words, if someone was of a criminal
                              bent, they might be more inclined to ply their trade on a hitchhiker,
                              using the rationalization, "Well, if this guy is too stupid to know
                              you're not supposed to thumb a ride, he deserves to be mutilated."

                              I could've sworn that I heard that it was more common, and considered
                              fairly safe, to hitchhike in continental Europe. Anyone know anything
                              about that?

                              Marcy
                            • Phoenix Amsterdam
                              americans are scared / end of story ... snip snip snip snip
                              Message 14 of 23 , May 28, 2006
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                                americans are scared / end of story

                                >From: "whistling_lass" <bonobo@...>

                                >I remember being specifically taught both things: don't hitchhike,
                                > b/c an axe murderer or rapist might pick you up, and don't pick up a
                                >hitchhiker, b/c he might be an axe murderer or rapist.

                                snip snip snip snip
                              • William Volk
                                In 1972 after an attempted trans-Canada bike ride ended in Ottawa with a car hitting from behind me as I avoided a ditch dug in the roadway, I ended up
                                Message 15 of 23 , May 28, 2006
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                                  In 1972 after an attempted trans-Canada bike ride ended in Ottawa with a car
                                  hitting from behind me as I avoided a ditch dug in the roadway, I ended up
                                  hitchhiking that summer across Canada and back across the USA. The Canadian
                                  youth hostel system was excellent, I came back across the USA in about 4
                                  days (one ride from California to Detroit nonstop at high speed).

                                  I was 15, abet taller than six foot packing 220lbs 15 ... Even so there were
                                  some tense moments involving some motorcycle gangs.

                                  But still, I can't imagine kids doing that today.

                                  Bill
                                • Simon Norton
                                  Surely one of the most cogent reasons for hitch hiking is in case of emergency. Suppose, for example, one s walking in the countryside, loses one s way and
                                  Message 16 of 23 , May 30, 2006
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                                    Surely one of the most cogent reasons for hitch hiking is in case of emergency.
                                    Suppose, for example, one's walking in the countryside, loses one's way and
                                    misses the last bus back. Or suppose one hurts oneself -- not badly enough to
                                    need hospital treatment, but badly enough to make it painful to walk further
                                    than necessary to reach the bus stop.

                                    There should be a way for people in this and similar situations to communicate
                                    their plight to motorists who might be willing to offer them a lift if they were
                                    aware of the situation, but would be less willing to help out someone who hitch
                                    hikes because they want to save money on bus or train fares.

                                    As for danger to the driver, surely he/she can tell whether the hitch hiker is a
                                    possible axe murderer -- it's surely hard to conceal an axe ?

                                    Simon Norton
                                  • Simon Baddeley
                                    II don¹t know, Simon What car drivers really need in these dangerous times is an in-car pack containing a collapsible security gate and x-ray scanner that can
                                    Message 17 of 23 , May 30, 2006
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                                      II don¹t know, Simon

                                      What car drivers really need in these dangerous times is an in-car pack
                                      containing a collapsible security gate and x-ray scanner that can be erected
                                      at the road side, requiring a hitcher to remove such things as keys, nail
                                      files, coin, mobiles and so on, placing them on a conveyor belt. Once the
                                      hitcher has passed through the gate they must allow themselves to be lightly
                                      patted down all over before entering the car.

                                      Any axes and other sharp objects would have to be discarded as a condition
                                      of carriage or stored by the driver for the duration of the ride in a
                                      separate compartment in the car. The hitcher could prepare an inventory to
                                      be co-signed by driver and hitcher and each could then tick-box these on
                                      completion of the ride prior to handing them back to their owner, or drivers
                                      could carry a portable carousel onto which they could hurl all such items.

                                      Safe items could be carried in the car by the hitcher as hand baggage. These
                                      need to be agreed and perhaps posted on the doors of new cars,

                                      It might also be possible to have a protective screen installed in new cars
                                      between the driver and the hitcher with intercom connection for emergencies,
                                      and with a number of automatic taped welcome notes, safety instructions in
                                      the unlikely event the car is involved in a collision and thanks at a choice
                                      of farewells on completion of the hitch. It would speed things up if hikers
                                      could be issued with a ³boarding card² prior to hitching which could be
                                      checked against a data base to which the drivers has access ­ subject
                                      obviously current to data protection and freedom of information legislation.

                                      In the early stages of a transaction of this kind, after the car has
                                      stopped, the driver with all windows closed and doors locked, could request
                                      the hitcher via a car megaphone to stand back from the vehicle with their
                                      hands held away from their sides. Once they have assumed a safe posture they
                                      can be politely informed about the normal security procedures the driver
                                      will be following. If they agree to these, they should be asked to walk far
                                      enough from the car while the driver erects the gate and x-ray safely. This
                                      procedure could be quickly introduced with pressure from insurance companies
                                      ensuring that if a hitcher then does kill the driver with an axe, unless it
                                      is made of folding plastic, no insurance will be paid to relatives.

                                      It goes without saying that remarks by the hitcher such as ³I could be an
                                      axe murderer² or non-verbal ironical ³psycho gestures² will not be ignored
                                      as pleasantries, but treated as sufficient cause for a driver to pack their
                                      security system and drive off leaving such irresponsible would-be hitchers
                                      standing by the road. Their baggage if already checked in will be forfeit.

                                      I think that for this system to work an equivalent system by which the
                                      hitcher can assess the character of their driver before they accept a lift
                                      needs to exist. Pocket DNA testing kit, fingerprint analysis ...??

                                      Simon B


                                      From: Simon Norton <S.Norton@...>
                                      Reply-To: <CarFree@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:14:31 +0100
                                      To: <carfree@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Subject: [CF] hitch hiking

                                      As for danger to the driver, surely he/she can tell whether the hitch hiker
                                      is a
                                      possible axe murderer -- it's surely hard to conceal an axe ?



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bling Williams
                                      http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait4jun04,1,514332.column?ctrack=1&cset=true I myself have never been able to find out precisely what
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
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                                        http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait4jun04,1,514332.column?ctrack=1&cset=true

                                        "I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism
                                        is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express
                                        sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat...or a prostitute."
                                        Rebecca West quotes (English Writer, 1892-1983)
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                                      • Bling Williams
                                        I cycled into town yesterday using the Bristol/Bath cycling track. It passes my road and heads into town for 5 glorious traffic free miles. But gosh, it was
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jun 9, 2006
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                                          I cycled into town yesterday using the Bristol/Bath cycling track. It passes my road and heads into town for 5 glorious traffic free miles.
                                          But gosh, it was crowded. I left at 5.30, commuting time and must have counted hundreds of cyclists coming the other way (plus people walking from work).
                                          There were idiots however, who felt the need to cycle at 20 mph+ (there's a speed limit of 15) and weave in and out of other cyclists and pedestrians, even overtaking slower bikes into oncoming cyclists. Those guys should bog off to the roads if they want to speed. All of them were young males (the sort who speed cars too. What is it about males and speed?)
                                          But it was great seeing how many cyclists there were and calculatng how many cars that there weren't!
                                          Probably a good thing. I came back along the roads - the path is full of insects and I'd eaten a fair few and was full - and th roads were totally gridlocked. Lots of hot bothered motorists sitting in hot bothered cars. Rush hour in hot sun isn't fun. Aggressive drivers were beeping horns, suddeny turning out of the queues with no thought for checking their mirrors, getting irate on stretches where they could go faster yet a cyclist was in the way. I got sworn at, cut up and had a beer can thrown at my head. Sigh.
                                          This weekend is Englands first World Cup game. The roads will be empty during the match but afterwards, at 5 I imagine it will be drunken boy racers so I ain't going anywhere. Cycling past pubs of a summer evening is an ordeal. Lots of drunken blokes either shouting sexually explicit stuff or effing at me for holding up traffic. There's 15 on my route home. So Saturday evening is out. Half the males in the country will be out on th streets, tanked to the eyeballs! Last weekend, the first hot one of the summer, had the young blokes from the flats opposite start a riot with the local Asian gang. Lots of police etc etc. They sit out on the stairway with the stereo pounding out across the neighbourhood :-(

                                          Thats my summer waffle.
                                          :-)

                                          Shyrley


                                          "I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism
                                          is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express
                                          sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat...or a prostitute."
                                          Rebecca West quotes (English Writer, 1892-1983)
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                                        • Chris Jordan
                                          Sounds very familiar. Those wanna be lance racers grab the lycra suits, don their vintage 10-speeds and annoy walkers, skaters, joggers, slower cyclists,
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jun 9, 2006
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                                            Sounds very familiar. Those 'wanna be lance' racers
                                            grab the lycra suits, don their vintage 10-speeds and
                                            annoy walkers, skaters, joggers, slower cyclists, and
                                            even car drivers when taking over lanes. It is such a
                                            comical dance; especially on a crowded weekend when
                                            the temparature is in the triple digits inland so
                                            thousands of peoplle come to the coast for the cool
                                            weather.

                                            I never could figure this behavior out. Comedy to
                                            watch the completely serious pelotons of 'plastic'
                                            cyclists and watch tourists reactions.

                                            Chris Jordan

                                            --- Bling Williams <bobalinga@...> wrote:

                                            > There were idiots however, who felt the need to
                                            > cycle at 20 mph+ (there's a speed limit of 15) and
                                            > weave in and out of other cyclists and pedestrians,
                                            > even overtaking slower bikes into oncoming cyclists.
                                            > Those guys should bog off to the roads if they want
                                            > to speed. All of them were young males (the sort who
                                            > speed cars too. What is it about males and speed?)


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                                          • Bling Williams
                                            Yep, all lycra and wrap around shades. It seems to go with the whole get out of my way as I go fast with no regard for others type of cycling. I m sure
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jun 10, 2006
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                                              Yep, all lycra and wrap around shades. It seems to go with the whole 'get out of my way as I go fast' with no regard for others type of cycling.
                                              I'm sure there are nice guys who wear lycra and are considerate but this lot gice cyclists a bad name.

                                              Shyrley

                                              Chris Jordan <eco_milage_buster_2005@...> wrote:
                                              Sounds very familiar. Those 'wanna be lance' racers
                                              grab the lycra suits, don their vintage 10-speeds and
                                              annoy walkers, skaters, joggers, slower cyclists, and
                                              even car drivers when taking over lanes. It is such a
                                              comical dance; especially on a crowded weekend when
                                              the temparature is in the triple digits inland so
                                              thousands of peoplle come to the coast for the cool
                                              weather.

                                              I never could figure this behavior out. Comedy to
                                              watch the completely serious pelotons of 'plastic'
                                              cyclists and watch tourists reactions.

                                              Chris Jordan

                                              --- Bling Williams <bobalinga@...> wrote:

                                              > There were idiots however, who felt the need to
                                              > cycle at 20 mph+ (there's a speed limit of 15) and
                                              > weave in and out of other cyclists and pedestrians,
                                              > even overtaking slower bikes into oncoming cyclists.
                                              > Those guys should bog off to the roads if they want
                                              > to speed. All of them were young males (the sort who
                                              > speed cars too. What is it about males and speed?)


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                                              is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express
                                              sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat...or a prostitute."
                                              Rebecca West quotes (English Writer, 1892-1983)
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                                            • whistling_lass
                                              ... get out of my way as I go fast with no regard for others type of cycling. That s why I cringe when people talk about getting rid of cars altogether. I
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jun 10, 2006
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                                                --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, Bling Williams <bobalinga@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Yep, all lycra and wrap around shades. It seems to go with the whole
                                                'get out of my way as I go fast' with no regard for others type of
                                                cycling.

                                                That's why I cringe when people talk about getting rid of cars
                                                altogether. I don't want those jerks riding bikes near me. It's bad
                                                enough when they're in cars. When they're in cars, they're wolves,
                                                and I can avoid them. When they're on bikes, they're like wolves in
                                                sheep's clothing, and they're more dangerous, I think.

                                                Marcy
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