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RE: [CF] Re: Brunch at Mi Pueblo, a Carfree outing....

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  • Brett Breitwieser
    ... From: CarFree@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarFree@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of whistling_lass Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 6:08 PM To:
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 3, 2005
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: CarFree@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarFree@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      whistling_lass
      Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 6:08 PM
      To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [CF] Re: Brunch at Mi Pueblo, a Carfree outing....

      --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Brett Breitwieser" <brett@a...> wrote:

      << This morning I went to Brunch on the Trikke 12 scooter to Mi
      Pueblo, the local Mexican place I really like....

      To see the complete trip, go to: http://hohokam.us/brunch.html >>

      I guess all the times Trikke's were mentioned before on this list, I
      assumed it was a brand of adult tricycle. I didn't realize it was a
      scooter.

      You can take them into traffic? What about them lets you take them
      into traffic? The speeds they can reach? I guess when I think of
      scooters, I think of either scooters like vespas and whatnot which
      seem road legal and those little motorized things that kids ride,
      which seem like skateboards with handlebars, which I assume are not
      road legal.

      Marcy

      None of the above... I take mine on dedicated bikeways and on streets with
      bike lanes...
      Sits up nice and tall so people see me quite well...
      Slightly slower than a bike (about 7-12 mph depending on road surface, head
      winds and inclination)...
      About 2-3 times faster than walking...
      See my website (http://HPV3.US) and links for further details...

      Brett

      Brett Breitwieser (brett@...)
      http://HPV3.US
      http://hohokam.us





      Problem? Email: CarFree-owners@yahoogroups.com

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    • Jim
      ... I California, you have to be sixteen, stay on rodes under 35 mph or in a bike lane and wear a helmet.
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 3, 2005
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        --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Brett Breitwieser" <brett@a...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > motorized things that kids ride, which seem like skateboards with
        > handlebars, which I assume are not road legal.

        I California, you have to be sixteen, stay on rodes under 35 mph or in
        a bike lane and wear a helmet.
      • whistling_lass
        ... Ooh, I m intrigued. Very cool. Hmm, I think I see one of those in my future. :-) Marcy
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 3, 2005
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          --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Brett Breitwieser" <brett@a...> wrote:

          > See my website (http://HPV3.US) and links for further details...

          Ooh, I'm intrigued. Very cool. Hmm, I think I see one of those in my
          future. :-)

          Marcy
        • Brett Breitwieser
          If you are ever in Phoenix, let me know, I have 3 Trikkes. We ll go for a ride down the canals, lunch on me at Mi Pueblo... They make a great Mango Margarita
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 3, 2005
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            If you are ever in Phoenix, let me know, I have 3 Trikkes. We'll go for a
            ride down the canals, lunch on me at Mi Pueblo...
            They make a great Mango Margarita ;*)


            Brett

            Brett Breitwieser (brett@...)
            http://HPV3.US
            http://hohokam.us

            -------Original Message-------

            From: whistling_lass
            Date: 08/03/05 18:58:17
            To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [CF] Re: Brunch at Mi Pueblo, a Carfree outing....

            --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Brett Breitwieser" <brett@a...> wrote:

            > See my website (http://HPV3.US) and links for further details...

            Ooh, I'm intrigued. Very cool. Hmm, I think I see one of those in my
            future. :-)

            Marcy




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          • billt44hk
            ... with ... head ... Ah, interesting, I had thought the Trikke was promoted as an alternative to the chain-driven bicycle. So its slightly disappointing to
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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              --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Brett Breitwieser" <brett@a...> wrote:

              > None of the above... I take mine on dedicated bikeways and on streets
              with
              > bike lanes...
              > Sits up nice and tall so people see me quite well...
              > Slightly slower than a bike (about 7-12 mph depending on road surface,
              head
              > winds and inclination)...
              > About 2-3 times faster than walking...
              > See my website (http://HPV3.US) and links for further details...

              Ah, interesting, I had thought the Trikke was promoted as an alternative
              to the chain-driven bicycle.

              So its slightly disappointing to see that it doesnt really serve as an
              alternative to cycling for many necessary trips. Eg the need to travel
              through the the city /town using the ordinary street infrastructure where
              facilities like dedicated cycleways or on-street bikelanes are non-
              existent (or only intermitent as in the city I live in). Does this mean
              that to enjoy the trikke but also be truly carfree one needs to own and
              use a bike as well,- the trikke serving mainly for offroad leisure
              outings?
              Bill
            • Brett Breitwieser
              I have a $3700 recumbent trike that I haven t used in 12 months or so, I use the Trikkes instead... Here in Phoenix, where the drivers typically drive at 45
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                I have a $3700 recumbent trike that I haven't used in 12 months or so, I use
                the Trikkes instead...
                Here in Phoenix, where the drivers typically drive at 45 mph plus
                (frequently 55) on city streets, I wouldn't mix it up with the cars on
                non-bike laned streets with a bicycle... no way... too many peds and
                bicyclists get creamed around here...so for me the Trikke is an alternative
                to the bike or trike or whatever... And digression is the better part of
                valor for me...

                Of course last winter I was run into by a large van running a stop sign in
                the rainstorm... and I was in a bike lane... me and the recumbent trike got
                thrown about 18 feet (across the street into the opposing lane, lucky no
                traffic was coming) but sustained only minor damage... so there are no
                guarantees...

                I am fortunate though in that Phoenix has an extensive system of dedicated
                bikeways (along 210 miles of canals) as well as lots of bike lanes... no one
                around here goes in streets without bike lanes... they would become instant
                targets...


                Brett Breitwieser (brett@...)
                http://HPV3.US
                http://hohokam.us


                -----Original Message-----
                From: CarFree@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarFree@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                billt44hk
                Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 7:27 AM
                To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [CF] Re: Brunch at Mi Pueblo, a Carfree outing....

                --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Brett Breitwieser" <brett@a...> wrote:

                > None of the above... I take mine on dedicated bikeways and on streets
                with
                > bike lanes...
                > Sits up nice and tall so people see me quite well...
                > Slightly slower than a bike (about 7-12 mph depending on road surface,
                head
                > winds and inclination)...
                > About 2-3 times faster than walking...
                > See my website (http://HPV3.US) and links for further details...

                Ah, interesting, I had thought the Trikke was promoted as an alternative
                to the chain-driven bicycle.

                So its slightly disappointing to see that it doesnt really serve as an
                alternative to cycling for many necessary trips. Eg the need to travel
                through the the city /town using the ordinary street infrastructure where
                facilities like dedicated cycleways or on-street bikelanes are non-
                existent (or only intermitent as in the city I live in). Does this mean
                that to enjoy the trikke but also be truly carfree one needs to own and
                use a bike as well,- the trikke serving mainly for offroad leisure
                outings?
                Bill





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              • Dennis Fariello
                ... I remember that well about Phoenix - traffic typically moved at double the speed limit, even on residential streets. 40-50 mph in a 25 mph zone was
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                  > I have a $3700 recumbent trike that I haven't used in 12
                  > months or so, I use the Trikkes instead... Here in Phoenix,
                  > where the drivers typically drive at 45 mph plus (frequently
                  > 55) on city streets, I wouldn't mix it up with the cars on
                  > non-bike laned streets with a bicycle... no way... too many
                  > peds and bicyclists get creamed around here...so for me the
                  > Trikke is an alternative to the bike or trike or whatever...

                  I remember that well about Phoenix - traffic typically moved at double
                  the speed limit, even on residential streets. 40-50 mph in a 25 mph
                  zone was "normal, accepted behaviour". 80-110 on the Black Canyon
                  Freeway (this was in the days before huge traffic jams, of course).

                  > I am fortunate though in that Phoenix has an extensive system
                  > of dedicated bikeways (along 210 miles of canals) as well as
                  > lots of bike lanes... no one around here goes in streets
                  > without bike lanes... they would become instant targets...

                  I haven't ridden a bike in Phoenix since I was a kid growing up there.
                  I guess last time was around 16 or so. Maybe even before that; I likely
                  quit riding totally when I started driving, perhaps before I got my
                  license, even. So maybe 15. This would be mid '70s, when the
                  population of Phoenix was about 450,000 if that big, total in the Valley
                  was probably less than 600,000 in those days. IIRC in 1970 Phoenix was
                  about 300,000, in 1980 about 600,000. The second biggest city would
                  have been Tempe back then, with about 50,000 counting ASU students.
                  Most of the rest of the Valley was isolated trailer parks, farmland, and
                  open desert.

                  Sure was different when I was there in the mid '90s. I can't imagine
                  what it would be like now being the 5th largest city in the country, I
                  understand. Way different from my childhood!

                  Speaking of "instant targets" on the streets, that reminds me of a law
                  passed in the '70s regarding jaywalkers. Phoenix has always had a
                  rather unique way of dealing with problems anyway, btw. Ok, so they
                  passed a law that pedestrians in crosswalks had the right of way. Big
                  deal, right? It's that way everywhere, right? Well, yeah, except for
                  the twist that if they weren't in a crosswalk, they were fair game.
                  Yep, run over a pedestrian not in a crosswalk and you're not at fault in
                  Phoenix. I don't know how long that law stayed in effect, or if it
                  still is. I do remember people driving down the sidewalks on Van Buren
                  saying "they ain't in a crosswalk, they're legal!" Ok I'm kidding about
                  that, somewhat ;-)

                  -Dennis
                  Philadelphia
                • whistling_lass
                  ... fault in Phoenix. I noticed a somewhat opposite problem in Pittsburgh. Pedestrians knew they had the right of way whenever and wherever, and they took
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                    --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Fariello" <dennis@b...> wrote:

                    > Ok, so they
                    > passed a law that pedestrians in crosswalks had the right of way. Big
                    > deal, right? It's that way everywhere, right? Well, yeah, except for
                    > the twist that if they weren't in a crosswalk, they were fair game.
                    > Yep, run over a pedestrian not in a crosswalk and you're not at
                    fault in Phoenix.

                    I noticed a somewhat opposite problem in Pittsburgh. Pedestrians knew
                    they had the right of way whenever and wherever, and they took that to
                    mean that they didn't have to look before they crossed or use common
                    sense. They just walked right out into the street whenever they
                    wanted, whether there was a car 50 feet away or 5 feet away. Not too
                    smart.

                    Marcy
                  • Dennis Fariello
                    ... I believe that was the impetus for the instigation of the fair game law in Phoenix. We have laws to cover those situations that people just ain t smart
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                      > I noticed a somewhat opposite problem in Pittsburgh.
                      > Pedestrians knew they had the right of way whenever and
                      > wherever, and they took that to mean that they didn't have to
                      > look before they crossed or use common sense. They just
                      > walked right out into the street whenever they wanted,
                      > whether there was a car 50 feet away or 5 feet away. Not too smart.

                      I believe that was the impetus for the instigation of the "fair game"
                      law in Phoenix. We have laws to cover those situations that people just
                      ain't smart enough to figure out on their own, y'know. ;-)

                      So how're you doing, Marcy?

                      Oh... I drove today :-( Now I have more running around to do, and I'm
                      doing it via bus and bike... F*ck driving LOL.
                    • Brett Breitwieser
                      Hell, in my neighborhood, northwest corner of Phoenix (43rd and Peoria for those familiar with the lay of the land) next to cities of Glendale and Peoria (this
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                        Hell, in my neighborhood, northwest corner of Phoenix (43rd and Peoria for
                        those familiar with the lay of the land) next to cities of Glendale and
                        Peoria (this is endless urban or rather suburban sprawl, endless strip mauls
                        and high speed traffic) cars JUMP the curb all the time, I think 3 were
                        KILLED locally while up on a curb last month alone... One motorist jumped
                        the curb and wiped out an entire bus stop, injuring several, fortunately no
                        one was killed in that fiasco...

                        Problem is that the Phoenicians still think they are cowboys in a rural
                        community, don't realize that the time of cattle drives down the streets are
                        long past... Heck the dedicated bikeways around here are still marked with
                        signs to yield to horses! Maybe as gas price go up, we'll all go back to
                        horseback (in my case I'd prefer a mule in this heat) though I've often
                        joked that I'd like to come out with an Oxcart, the traditional equivalent
                        of the SUV... I've been on these in Africa and they are
                        slooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww! But no one messes with them! At least
                        animals are more honest, they shit on the streets where you can clearly see
                        it and step around or over it. The modern automobile shits pollution into
                        the air that we all have to breath.


                        Brett Breitwieser (brett@...)
                        http://HPV3.US
                        http://hohokam.us


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: CarFree@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarFree@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        Dennis Fariello
                        Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 8:48 AM
                        To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [CF] Re: Brunch at Mi Pueblo, a Carfree outing....

                        > I have a $3700 recumbent trike that I haven't used in 12
                        > months or so, I use the Trikkes instead... Here in Phoenix,
                        > where the drivers typically drive at 45 mph plus (frequently
                        > 55) on city streets, I wouldn't mix it up with the cars on
                        > non-bike laned streets with a bicycle... no way... too many
                        > peds and bicyclists get creamed around here...so for me the
                        > Trikke is an alternative to the bike or trike or whatever...

                        I remember that well about Phoenix - traffic typically moved at double
                        the speed limit, even on residential streets. 40-50 mph in a 25 mph
                        zone was "normal, accepted behaviour". 80-110 on the Black Canyon
                        Freeway (this was in the days before huge traffic jams, of course).

                        > I am fortunate though in that Phoenix has an extensive system
                        > of dedicated bikeways (along 210 miles of canals) as well as
                        > lots of bike lanes... no one around here goes in streets
                        > without bike lanes... they would become instant targets...

                        I haven't ridden a bike in Phoenix since I was a kid growing up there.
                        I guess last time was around 16 or so. Maybe even before that; I likely
                        quit riding totally when I started driving, perhaps before I got my
                        license, even. So maybe 15. This would be mid '70s, when the
                        population of Phoenix was about 450,000 if that big, total in the Valley
                        was probably less than 600,000 in those days. IIRC in 1970 Phoenix was
                        about 300,000, in 1980 about 600,000. The second biggest city would
                        have been Tempe back then, with about 50,000 counting ASU students.
                        Most of the rest of the Valley was isolated trailer parks, farmland, and
                        open desert.

                        Sure was different when I was there in the mid '90s. I can't imagine
                        what it would be like now being the 5th largest city in the country, I
                        understand. Way different from my childhood!

                        Speaking of "instant targets" on the streets, that reminds me of a law
                        passed in the '70s regarding jaywalkers. Phoenix has always had a
                        rather unique way of dealing with problems anyway, btw. Ok, so they
                        passed a law that pedestrians in crosswalks had the right of way. Big
                        deal, right? It's that way everywhere, right? Well, yeah, except for
                        the twist that if they weren't in a crosswalk, they were fair game.
                        Yep, run over a pedestrian not in a crosswalk and you're not at fault in
                        Phoenix. I don't know how long that law stayed in effect, or if it
                        still is. I do remember people driving down the sidewalks on Van Buren
                        saying "they ain't in a crosswalk, they're legal!" Ok I'm kidding about
                        that, somewhat ;-)

                        -Dennis
                        Philadelphia






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                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • whistling_lass
                        ... Good. I leave tomorrow via Amtrak to move to Eugene, OR. I dropped my bike off at the bike shop the other day. They will ship it to me. I ve heard the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                          --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Fariello" <dennis@b...> wrote:

                          > So how're you doing, Marcy?

                          Good. I leave tomorrow via Amtrak to move to Eugene, OR. I dropped
                          my bike off at the bike shop the other day. They will ship it to me.
                          I've heard the public transit is good, and they're very bike
                          friendly. For that and other reasons, I decided that I would find
                          lots of "my people" there, so I decided to relocate.

                          Marcy
                        • Dennis Fariello
                          ... They weren t in a crosswalk, so they were fair game! 37th Ave between Thunderbird and Greenway, here. ... Horses are still common in areas of Phoenix,
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                            > Hell, in my neighborhood, northwest corner of Phoenix (43rd
                            > and Peoria for those familiar with the lay of the land) next
                            > to cities of Glendale and Peoria (this is endless urban or
                            > rather suburban sprawl, endless strip mauls and high speed
                            > traffic) cars JUMP the curb all the time, I think 3 were
                            > KILLED locally while up on a curb last month alone... One
                            > motorist jumped the curb and wiped out an entire bus stop,
                            > injuring several, fortunately no one was killed in that fiasco...

                            "They weren't in a crosswalk, so they were fair game!"

                            37th Ave between Thunderbird and Greenway, here.

                            > Problem is that the Phoenicians still think they are cowboys
                            > in a rural community, don't realize that the time of cattle
                            > drives down the streets are long past... Heck the dedicated
                            > bikeways around here are still marked with signs to yield to
                            > horses! Maybe as gas price go up, we'll all go back to
                            > horseback (in my case I'd prefer a mule in this heat) though
                            > I've often joked that I'd like to come out with an Oxcart,
                            > the traditional equivalent of the SUV... I've been on these
                            > in Africa and they are slooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww! But
                            > no one messes with them! At least animals are more honest,
                            > they shit on the streets where you can clearly see it and
                            > step around or over it. The modern automobile shits pollution
                            > into the air that we all have to breath.

                            Horses are still common in areas of Phoenix, especially the Northeast,
                            are they not? I grew up near Sunburst Farms, a vast development running
                            north and west from 39th Ave. and Acoma (halfway between T-Bird and
                            Greenway - I grew up on Acoma).

                            Has the transit system in Phoenix improved over the years, I wonder? Or
                            is it still running once-an-hour loops?

                            -Dennis
                            Philadelphia (where the buses run only once every 15 minutes on the
                            weekends)
                          • Dennis Fariello
                            ... Oregon sounds like such a cool place to live. I ve heard they keep Californians out because Californians aren t weird enough to live in Oregon LOL. What s
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                              > Good. I leave tomorrow via Amtrak to move to Eugene, OR. I
                              > dropped my bike off at the bike shop the other day. They
                              > will ship it to me. I've heard the public transit is good,
                              > and they're very bike friendly. For that and other reasons,
                              > I decided that I would find lots of "my people" there, so I
                              > decided to relocate.

                              Oregon sounds like such a cool place to live. I've heard they keep
                              Californians out because Californians aren't weird enough to live in
                              Oregon LOL.

                              What's taking you to Oregon?

                              -Dennis
                              Philadelphia
                            • Brett Breitwieser
                              Well I m carfree so I don t get around TOO much, but there is a paddock about a mile from me right next to the canal and several corrals within 5 miles of
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 6, 2005
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                                Well I'm carfree so I don't get around TOO much, but there is a paddock
                                about a mile from me right next to the canal and several corrals within 5
                                miles of me... The last horses I saw out actually being ridden were out by
                                75th Ave. area down in the wash... Don't see them on the "bike trails" these
                                days, though they would be legal...

                                The transit system is getting much better, lots of every half hour routes,
                                some really deluxe "Rapid" commuter buses from the Metro near where I live
                                to downtown... Recently a large transit bond issue passed and they are
                                starting on some really great light rail... So some people are waking up to
                                the urban reality...

                                http://www.valleymetro.org/rail/movies/index.html

                                Brett Breitwieser (brett@...)
                                http://HPV3.US
                                http://hohokam.us


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: CarFree@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarFree@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                Dennis Fariello
                                Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 4:23 PM
                                To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [CF] Re: Brunch at Mi Pueblo, a Carfree outing....



                                Horses are still common in areas of Phoenix, especially the Northeast,
                                are they not? I grew up near Sunburst Farms, a vast development running
                                north and west from 39th Ave. and Acoma (halfway between T-Bird and
                                Greenway - I grew up on Acoma).

                                Has the transit system in Phoenix improved over the years, I wonder? Or
                                is it still running once-an-hour loops?

                                -Dennis
                                Philadelphia (where the buses run only once every 15 minutes on the
                                weekends)






                                Problem? Email: CarFree-owners@yahoogroups.com

                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • David Hansen
                                ... I hope the move itself goes well and you enjoy your new location. Please let us know how it went when you get the time. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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                                  On 6 Aug 2005 at 21:53, whistling_lass wrote:

                                  > I leave tomorrow via Amtrak to move to Eugene, OR. I dropped my
                                  > bike off at the bike shop the other day. They will ship it to me.
                                  > I've heard the public transit is good, and they're very bike
                                  > friendly. For that and other reasons, I decided that I would find
                                  > lots of "my people" there, so I decided to relocate.

                                  I hope the move itself goes well and you enjoy your new location.
                                  Please let us know how it went when you get the time.




                                  --
                                  David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
                                  I will *always* explain why I revoke a key, unless the UK
                                  government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
                                • SHYRLEY WILLIAMS
                                  ... Good luck with the move and I ve heard its very bike friendly. Shyrley Disability is a matter of perception. If you can do just one thing well, you re
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > On 6 Aug 2005 at 21:53, whistling_lass wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I leave tomorrow via Amtrak to move to Eugene, OR.
                                    > I dropped my
                                    > > bike off at the bike shop the other day. They
                                    > will ship it to me.
                                    > > I've heard the public transit is good, and
                                    > they're very bike
                                    > > friendly. For that and other reasons, I decided
                                    > that I would find
                                    > > lots of "my people" there, so I decided to
                                    > relocate.


                                    Good luck with the move and I've heard its very bike
                                    friendly.

                                    Shyrley

                                    Disability is a matter of perception. If you can do just one thing well, you're needed by someone.Navratilova, Martina1956 American Tennis Player



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                                  • Dennis Fariello
                                    ... Every half hour? Sheesh that s not sufficient for an urban environment. In the mornings here, buses run every three minutes, with some only a minute
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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                                      > The transit system is getting much better, lots of every half
                                      > hour routes, some really deluxe "Rapid" commuter buses from
                                      > the Metro near where I live to downtown... Recently a large
                                      > transit bond issue passed and they are starting on some
                                      > really great light rail... So some people are waking up to
                                      > the urban reality...

                                      Every half hour? Sheesh that's not sufficient for an urban environment.
                                      In the mornings here, buses run every three minutes, with some only a
                                      minute apart, during rush hour. In the afternoon when I'm on my way
                                      home from work (I don't know if this coincides with peak rush hour or
                                      not - I suspect not) the buses run every eight minutes on that
                                      particular route. The route that runs right by my house (not the one I
                                      take to work, I walk a half-mile to get a direct route with no
                                      transfers) runs every three minutes during rush hour, and tapers off to
                                      once every 20 minutes at night. They don't call it a 24-hour route
                                      because there's no run between 3:50 and 5:00 am.

                                      > http://www.valleymetro.org/rail/movies/index.html

                                      I see Phoenix still has its fetish for overlarge, articulated vehicles
                                      ;-) IIRC Phoenix was the first city to use articulated buses. Run a
                                      twice-as-big vehicle half-as-often...

                                      -Dennis
                                    • Brett Breitwieser
                                      Yeah, Phoenix is still really dedicated to the SUV and huge pickup (in our neighborhood most people have 2 or 3 big ones parked in their driveway)... Still the
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Aug 7, 2005
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                                        Yeah, Phoenix is still really dedicated to the SUV and huge pickup (in our
                                        neighborhood most people have 2 or 3 big ones parked in their driveway)...
                                        Still the cowboy mentality... But you should hear the gas pigs squealing now
                                        that gas prices are going up!


                                        Brett Breitwieser (brett@...)
                                        http://HPV3.US
                                        http://hohokam.us


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: CarFree@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarFree@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                        Dennis Fariello
                                        Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:16 PM
                                        To: CarFree@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [CF] Re: Brunch at Mi Pueblo, a Carfree outing....

                                        > The transit system is getting much better, lots of every half
                                        > hour routes, some really deluxe "Rapid" commuter buses from
                                        > the Metro near where I live to downtown... Recently a large
                                        > transit bond issue passed and they are starting on some
                                        > really great light rail... So some people are waking up to
                                        > the urban reality...

                                        Every half hour? Sheesh that's not sufficient for an urban environment.
                                        In the mornings here, buses run every three minutes, with some only a
                                        minute apart, during rush hour. In the afternoon when I'm on my way
                                        home from work (I don't know if this coincides with peak rush hour or
                                        not - I suspect not) the buses run every eight minutes on that
                                        particular route. The route that runs right by my house (not the one I
                                        take to work, I walk a half-mile to get a direct route with no
                                        transfers) runs every three minutes during rush hour, and tapers off to
                                        once every 20 minutes at night. They don't call it a 24-hour route
                                        because there's no run between 3:50 and 5:00 am.

                                        > http://www.valleymetro.org/rail/movies/index.html

                                        I see Phoenix still has its fetish for overlarge, articulated vehicles
                                        ;-) IIRC Phoenix was the first city to use articulated buses. Run a
                                        twice-as-big vehicle half-as-often...

                                        -Dennis






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                                      • David Hansen
                                        ... My understanding is that cowboys lived rather simply in the days when men were men. The craze for large motor vehicles with large wheels is relatively
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Aug 8, 2005
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                                          On 7 Aug 2005 at 16:12, Brett Breitwieser wrote:

                                          > Yeah, Phoenix is still really dedicated to the SUV and huge pickup (in
                                          > our neighborhood most people have 2 or 3 big ones parked in their
                                          > driveway)... Still the cowboy mentality...

                                          My understanding is that cowboys lived rather simply in the days when
                                          men were men. The craze for large motor vehicles with large wheels is
                                          relatively recent.



                                          --
                                          David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
                                          I will *always* explain why I revoke a key, unless the UK
                                          government prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
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