Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Newbie

Expand Messages
  • upkerry12
    Check out this page. It ll help you get started. Bill http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Check out this page. It'll help you get started.
      Bill


      http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/
    • whistling_lass
      ... Thanks. :-) It looks like it will be a real help. I haven t really gone much past the thinking stage, and I notice I m starting to rebel. I ve been
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 2, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "upkerry12" <upkerry12@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Check out this page. It'll help you get started.
        > Bill

        Thanks. :-) It looks like it will be a real help.

        I haven't really gone much past the thinking stage, and I notice I'm
        starting to rebel. I've been taking the car out more and more. It's
        disgusting! But I've done that before, and I know that it's only
        temporary. I think about something for a while, then I start making
        plans for implementing it, then I start rebelling even though I
        haven't even started. :-) But then I end up going ahead and doing it.

        I used to run, but an extended illness waylaid me and I haven't done
        anything for a few years. I need to start walking and build up some
        fitness and get a bike and take it for small trips before I'll feel
        fit enough and confident enough to use it for longer distances.

        Marcy
      • SHYRLEY WILLIAMS
        ... Werll, there s no time like the present :-) I was cycling back from the shop today. Its sunday, just after New Year and the roads were clogged. The noise
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 2, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          --- whistling_lass <whistling_lass@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, "upkerry12"
          > <upkerry12@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Check out this page. It'll help you get started.
          > > Bill
          >
          > Thanks. :-) It looks like it will be a real help.
          >
          > I haven't really gone much past the thinking stage,
          > and I notice I'm
          > starting to rebel. I've been taking the car out
          > more and more. It's
          > disgusting! But I've done that before, and I know
          > that it's only
          > temporary. I think about something for a while,
          > then I start making
          > plans for implementing it, then I start rebelling
          > even though I
          > haven't even started. :-) But then I end up going
          > ahead and doing it.
          >
          > I used to run, but an extended illness waylaid me
          > and I haven't done
          > anything for a few years. I need to start walking
          > and build up some
          > fitness and get a bike and take it for small trips
          > before I'll feel
          > fit enough and confident enough to use it for longer
          > distances.
          >
          > Marcy
          >
          >
          Werll, there's no time like the present :-)
          I was cycling back from the shop today. Its sunday,
          just after New Year and the roads were clogged. The
          noise and smell is beginning to get to me. I'm feeling
          like a broken record when I whine on about it but I
          don't understand how 99% of the population can't see
          there's a problem!

          Also reading 'Not on the Label' which describes the
          state of our food (mainly UK but the US is ahead of us
          in obesity, food miles and adulterated food) and
          seeing how many miles food travels before it reaches
          supermarkets as no-one buys local anymore is
          incredible.
          Imported carrots - 147 cals of energy used to get each
          1 cal of carrot to a supermarket!
          I'm lucky in that about 90% of the food I buy is grown
          within 50 miles of where I live but the majrity of
          people don't give a thought to all those trucks and
          lorries thundering around the country.
          Gosh. I'm ranting again.
          I'll stop.

          Shyrley

          =====
          "A little rebellion now and then is a good thing."-- Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787





          ___________________________________________________________
          ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
        • whistling_lass
          ... How is the atmosphere in the UK regarding biking? I always assumed that Europe was more biker friendly than the US, since they have a much longer history
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 2, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In CarFree@yahoogroups.com, SHYRLEY WILLIAMS
            <shyrley.williams@b...> wrote:

            > Also reading 'Not on the Label' which describes the
            > state of our food (mainly UK but the US is ahead of us
            > in obesity, food miles and adulterated food) and
            > seeing how many miles food travels before it reaches
            > supermarkets as no-one buys local anymore is
            > incredible.

            How is the atmosphere in the UK regarding biking? I always assumed
            that Europe was more biker friendly than the US, since they have a
            much longer history of narrow cobblestone streets and whatnot, whereas
            in the U.S. we're all about interstates. I am a bit nervous about
            biking next to traffic. I'm glad that there's a bike trail very close
            by and that I can use that for at least half of my commute to work.
            I've been reading stuff on the net, and there seems to be differing
            opinions about whether or not bike lanes make biking safer or not, but
            I would vote for more bike lanes. What with people yakking on cell
            phones, teenagers, and tractor trailers, I think it's much safer to be
            relegated to your own lane. Even if you act like a vehicle and follow
            all the rules, the straight truth is that cars do NOT see you.

            I'm wondering if there's anyone on this list who walks as primary
            transportation, and what's the farthest you've walked?

            Marcy
          • SHYRLEY WILLIAMS
            ... Well, the UK has a lot of cyclists. Every morning I see hundreds of bike commuters plus an assortment of little old ladies on 3 speed shoppers. We still
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 2, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              --- whistling_lass <whistling_lass@...> wrote:

              >
              > How is the atmosphere in the UK regarding biking? I
              > always assumed
              > that Europe was more biker friendly than the US,
              > since they have a
              > much longer history of narrow cobblestone streets
              > and whatnot, whereas
              > in the U.S. we're all about interstates. I am a bit
              > nervous about
              > biking next to traffic. I'm glad that there's a
              > bike trail very close
              > by and that I can use that for at least half of my
              > commute to work.
              > I've been reading stuff on the net, and there seems
              > to be differing
              > opinions about whether or not bike lanes make biking
              > safer or not, but
              > I would vote for more bike lanes. What with people
              > yakking on cell
              > phones, teenagers, and tractor trailers, I think
              > it's much safer to be
              > relegated to your own lane. Even if you act like a
              > vehicle and follow
              > all the rules, the straight truth is that cars do
              > NOT see you.
              >
              > I'm wondering if there's anyone on this list who
              > walks as primary
              > transportation, and what's the farthest you've
              > walked?
              >
              > Marcy
              >

              Well, the UK has a lot of cyclists. Every morning I
              see hundreds of bike commuters plus an assortment of
              little old ladies on 3 speed shoppers.
              We still have idiots in cars who think they own the
              road.

              Well, my primary transporttaion is walking. My car
              broke ages ago and I have 4 kids. The baby is disabled
              and its too hard to get her stroller on the bus. Most
              of the shops are walking distance - half a mile or so
              - greengrocers (3 to choose from) 2 bakers,
              fishmongers and 4 butchers plus a hardware shop and 2
              petshops for food for the budgie.
              At weekends I cycle to the further places while hubby
              watches kids.
              The furthest I walk is probably the hospital. Its 6
              miles. I can't afford a taxi both ways (its £10 -$15-)
              so we taxi one way and walk back. That can be anything
              from once a week to daily although if baby is
              admitted I then cycle to see her and leave the older
              kids at home.
              Hubby cycle commutes to work. Its 5 miles which takes
              him about 25-30 mins.
              When cycling I use a mixture of bike path, quiet
              roads, main roads. Depends on where I'm going really.
              My biggest worry is being 'doored'. In UK streets
              there are often cars parked either side and people
              just don't check before they open their doors!
              I am finding that more people are passing too close
              but thats mainly SUV's. Those monsters and narrow
              english roads do not mix. Grrrr

              Have you got yourself a bike yet?

              Shyrley

              =====
              "A little rebellion now and then is a good thing."-- Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787





              ___________________________________________________________
              ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
            • RIIN GILL
              ... Um...wouldn t riding on cobblestone streets suck? I ve never ridden on cobblestones, but I have to ride on brick streets occasionally, and I hate them
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 3, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, whistling_lass wrote:

                > How is the atmosphere in the UK regarding biking? I always assumed
                > that Europe was more biker friendly than the US, since they have a
                > much longer history of narrow cobblestone streets and whatnot...

                Um...wouldn't riding on cobblestone streets suck? I've never ridden on
                cobblestones, but I have to ride on brick streets occasionally, and I hate
                them because I have to go really really slow. I mean, it's kind of like a
                street made entirely of potholes. Smooth it is not.

                ***********************************************************
                Riin Gill
                Interlibrary Loan 734-615-6168
                Taubman Medical Library fax 734-763-1473
                University of Michigan
                ***********************************************************
                http://www-personal.umich.edu/~riin/
                If you were riding your bike, you'd be having fun by now.
              • SHYRLEY WILLIAMS
                ... They hurt your butt and your front wheel tunrs all over the place. Lucky I only ever have to go down one cobbled road. Shyrley ===== A little rebellion
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- RIIN GILL <riin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, whistling_lass wrote:
                  >
                  > > How is the atmosphere in the UK regarding biking?
                  > I always assumed
                  > > that Europe was more biker friendly than the US,
                  > since they have a
                  > > much longer history of narrow cobblestone streets
                  > and whatnot...
                  >
                  > Um...wouldn't riding on cobblestone streets suck?
                  > I've never ridden on
                  > cobblestones, but I have to ride on brick streets
                  > occasionally, and I hate
                  > them because I have to go really really slow. I
                  > mean, it's kind of like a
                  > street made entirely of potholes. Smooth it is not.
                  >
                  >

                  They hurt your butt and your front wheel tunrs all
                  over the place. Lucky I only ever have to go down one
                  cobbled road.

                  Shyrley

                  =====
                  "A little rebellion now and then is a good thing."-- Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787





                  ___________________________________________________________
                  ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                • David Hansen
                  ... You are part of the traffic, never forget that. ... If you find it restful and useful great. However, do be aware of the problems and dangers with these
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On 2 Jan 2005 at 20:45, whistling_lass wrote:

                    > I am a bit nervous about biking next to traffic.

                    You are part of the traffic, never forget that.

                    > I'm glad that there's a bike trail very close by and that I
                    > can use that for at least half of my commute to work.

                    If you find it restful and useful great. However, do be aware of the
                    problems and dangers with these things.

                    > I've been reading
                    > stuff on the net, and there seems to be differing opinions about whether
                    > or not bike lanes make biking safer or not, but I would vote for more
                    > bike lanes. What with people yakking on cell phones, teenagers, and
                    > tractor trailers, I think it's much safer to be relegated to your own
                    > lane.

                    "Relegated" is an unfortunate term. Don't feel inferior, feel equal to
                    everyone else as that is what you are.

                    Bike lanes can be good, bad and indifferent. Good ones in useful
                    locations are rare, but there are a few.

                    > Even if you act like a vehicle and follow all the rules, the
                    > straight truth is that cars do NOT see you.

                    You are not a vehicle, but your bike is. Cars do not see, their drivers
                    do. Good road positioning makes it more likely that they will see you.


                    --
                    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
                    I will *always* explain why I revoke a key, unless the UK
                    government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
                  • Robert J. Matter
                    ... Unfortunately you only get one life to bet if they don t. In Sept. 2003 I would certainly have been hit from behind and killed by a speeding pickup truck
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      David Hansen wrote:

                      > Good road positioning makes it more likely that they will see you.

                      Unfortunately you only get one life to bet if they don't.

                      In Sept. 2003 I would certainly have been hit from behind and killed by
                      a speeding pickup truck had I not tracked its headlights in my mirror
                      and bailed from the center of the right lane to the gravel shoulder at
                      the last second. I had three blinking taillights that night, one on my
                      helmet, one on the shoulder strap of my bag, and one on my seat post.

                      In November of 2004 I nearly suffered the same fate. I was in the center
                      of the right lane pedaling uphill in a headwind so I was keeping my head
                      down and not checking my mirror as frequently as normal. Traffic was
                      almost non-existent that night. When I crested the hill and checked my
                      mirror, a car was coming up behind me fast. Just as I swerved to the
                      right, the car swerved to the left. I felt and heard contact, but I
                      stayed up. The car stopped and the elderly driver asked if I was ok and
                      told me he didn't see me. I had two tail lights (one on the back of my
                      helmet, one on my seat post), a 3" amber reflector, pedal reflectors, a
                      reflective ankle band, and a yellow Burley cycling jacket with
                      reflective striping. I was ok and my bike was undamaged. His passenger
                      side mirror might have clipped my bag which was hanging at my side.

                      I don't know how many times I have tracked approaching cagers in my
                      mirror while riding in the center of the right lane and was just
                      preparing to bail off the road when they would steer around me at the
                      last moment like I was roadkill or a traffic cone, moving over just
                      enough to clear me while traveling in excess of 50mph. Very
                      uncomfortable. Often those cagers reveal another cager speeding behind
                      them that is surprised to encounter a 10mph cyclist in a 50mph zone
                      where the average speed is more like 60-70mph. I've had a number of
                      cagers stay in the right lane and stomp on their brakes and screech to a
                      near stop to avoid hitting me too. Very unnerving.

                      I too much prefer separate non-motorized trails. And when there aren't
                      trails, I prefer bike lanes where cagers are more inclined to stay lined
                      up to the left of the white line and pass me without incident. I still
                      monitor their behavior in my mirror; you never know when a cager will be
                      drunk, sleeping, looking for a crack pipe under the passenger seat, etc.
                      and drift. A residual benefit of bike lanes is when traffic is stopped
                      at a light, cagers are more inclined to remain lined up in a single file
                      line instead of being staggered all over the road from the curb to the
                      center line so I have room to filter forward without having to go
                      through narrow door zone pinch points or weave in and out between cars
                      to alternately pass on the left and right. And when we have our own
                      space, cagers don't honk and harass us. Verbal altercations can easily
                      escalate into physical altercations.

                      In a nutshell, the microscopic anti-bike facility crowd has way
                      overstated the hazards of bike facilities and way understated the
                      hazards of riding on unaccommodated roads. They are internet loudmouths,
                      consisting of no more than a few hundred people, who have little to no
                      influence in the real world where they are outnumbered and outgunned by
                      facilities advocates by thousands to one. They refuse to acknowledge the
                      threat posed to cyclists by motorized transport, perhaps because most
                      of them are cagers themselves. They may even be agents of the
                      auto-industrial complex. Auto sales are flat in North America. Serious
                      money is at stake. No doubt the auto-industrial complex is aware of the
                      future potential financial losses if cycling, walking, and mass transit
                      were properly funded and accommodated.

                      Bob Matter
                      Riding my bike, never driving it, happily, safely, and swiftly in the
                      bike lanes and bike paths of Chicagoland every day.
                    • Lorenzo L. Love
                      ... In the late 1800 s, the League of American Wheelmen was instrumental in getting cobblestone streets replaced with bicycle friendly macadam blacktop. This
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        SHYRLEY WILLIAMS wrote:
                        > --- RIIN GILL <riin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >>On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, whistling_lass wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>>How is the atmosphere in the UK regarding biking?
                        >>
                        >>I always assumed
                        >>
                        >>>that Europe was more biker friendly than the US,
                        >>
                        >>since they have a
                        >>
                        >>>much longer history of narrow cobblestone streets
                        >>
                        >>and whatnot...
                        >>
                        >>Um...wouldn't riding on cobblestone streets suck?
                        >>I've never ridden on
                        >>cobblestones, but I have to ride on brick streets
                        >>occasionally, and I hate
                        >>them because I have to go really really slow. I
                        >>mean, it's kind of like a
                        >>street made entirely of potholes. Smooth it is not.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > They hurt your butt and your front wheel tunrs all
                        > over the place. Lucky I only ever have to go down one
                        > cobbled road.
                        >
                        > Shyrley
                        >

                        In the late 1800's, the League of American Wheelmen was instrumental in
                        getting cobblestone streets replaced with bicycle friendly macadam
                        blacktop. This had the unforeseen effect of also making the streets more
                        usable for the newfangled automobiles. Be careful what you wish for.

                        Lorenzo L. Love
                        http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

                        "Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a
                        person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a
                        newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with him."
                        Art Buchwald
                      • David Hansen
                        ... That rather depends on how wide the lane is and what happens to it at difficult locations. ... You are lucky. ... Anything to back up your assertion?
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 4 Jan 2005 at 6:19, Robert J. Matter wrote:

                          > And when there aren't
                          > trails, I prefer bike lanes where cagers are more inclined to stay lined
                          > up to the left of the white line and pass me without incident.

                          That rather depends on how wide the "lane" is and what happens to it at
                          "difficult" locations.

                          > And when we have our own
                          > space, cagers don't honk and harass us.

                          You are lucky.

                          > In a nutshell, the microscopic anti-bike facility crowd has way
                          > overstated the hazards of bike facilities and way understated the
                          > hazards of riding on unaccommodated roads.

                          Anything to back up your assertion?

                          > They are internet loudmouths,

                          John Franklin, the author of the manual on cycling in the UK, seldom
                          says anything in public on Internet.

                          > consisting of no more than a few hundred people, who have little to no
                          > influence in the real world

                          Excellent. Use of "the real world" tends to indicate no better
                          arguments.

                          > where they are outnumbered and outgunned by
                          > facilities advocates by thousands to one.

                          That is true, but many/most of these "facilities" advocates are road
                          builders and party politicans with little experience of cycling.

                          > They refuse to acknowledge the
                          > threat posed to cyclists by motorized transport,

                          You must be talking about a different group of people to the ones I do.

                          > perhaps because most of them are cagers themselves.

                          Really. Not in my experience.


                          --
                          David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
                          I will *always* explain why I revoke a key, unless the UK
                          government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.