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A minor point I thought might be worth a little discussion

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  • liftr450
    I was just wondering about something. If pro-lifers actually believe that personhood begins at conception, why would they ever celebrate birthdays? Why not
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 3, 2008
      I was just wondering about something. If "pro-lifers" actually
      believe that personhood begins at conception, why would they ever
      celebrate birthdays? Why not celebrate conception days instead?
      Birthdays are meant to celebrate the beginning of a person's life, but
      if a person's life begins at conception, then that changes the whole
      point of birthday celebrations. Of course, if birthdays refer to the
      "coming out" into society of a person and not to the beginning of a
      person's life, then that's different, but I don't think most people
      see birthdays in that way.

      My point is that "pro-lifers" who celebrate birthdays are more than
      likely being hypocritical. Widespread hypocrisy is always an ethical
      concern, especially for cases in which it seems no one has discovered
      the hypocrisy yet.

      That's my atheist thought for the day.

      Larry Jones
    • * Pyrolistical
      Well, if they celebrated conception, they would need to explain to their kids what is conception. Then they would have to talk about sex. Besides, conception
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 3, 2008
        Well, if they celebrated conception, they would need to explain to their
        kids what is conception. Then they would have to talk about sex.

        Besides, conception is hard to pin down which date it occurred, nor would
        may it be a good story. "We are having cake and presents today because I
        was drunk 5 years ago on this day!"

        I understand your point, but it is hard to argue for.

        On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:09 PM, liftr450 <liftr450@...> wrote:

        > I was just wondering about something. If "pro-lifers" actually
        > believe that personhood begins at conception, why would they ever
        > celebrate birthdays? Why not celebrate conception days instead?
        > Birthdays are meant to celebrate the beginning of a person's life, but
        > if a person's life begins at conception, then that changes the whole
        > point of birthday celebrations. Of course, if birthdays refer to the
        > "coming out" into society of a person and not to the beginning of a
        > person's life, then that's different, but I don't think most people
        > see birthdays in that way.
        >
        > My point is that "pro-lifers" who celebrate birthdays are more than
        > likely being hypocritical. Widespread hypocrisy is always an ethical
        > concern, especially for cases in which it seems no one has discovered
        > the hypocrisy yet.
        >
        > That's my atheist thought for the day.
        >
        > Larry Jones
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • G. S. Prendergast
        Out of interest, some extreme religions (SeventhDay Adventists and/or Mormons and/or Scientologists) DON T celerate birthdays at all.. -g _____ From:
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 3, 2008
          Out of interest, some extreme religions (SeventhDay Adventists and/or
          Mormons and/or Scientologists) DON'T celerate birthdays at all..
          -g

          _____

          From: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of * Pyrolistical
          Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:52 PM
          To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [CanadianAtheist] A minor point I thought might be worth a
          little discussion



          Well, if they celebrated conception, they would need to explain to their
          kids what is conception. Then they would have to talk about sex.

          Besides, conception is hard to pin down which date it occurred, nor would
          may it be a good story. "We are having cake and presents today because I
          was drunk 5 years ago on this day!"

          I understand your point, but it is hard to argue for.

          On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:09 PM, liftr450 <liftr450@yahoo.
          <mailto:liftr450%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

          > I was just wondering about something. If "pro-lifers" actually
          > believe that personhood begins at conception, why would they ever
          > celebrate birthdays? Why not celebrate conception days instead?
          > Birthdays are meant to celebrate the beginning of a person's life, but
          > if a person's life begins at conception, then that changes the whole
          > point of birthday celebrations. Of course, if birthdays refer to the
          > "coming out" into society of a person and not to the beginning of a
          > person's life, then that's different, but I don't think most people
          > see birthdays in that way.
          >
          > My point is that "pro-lifers" who celebrate birthdays are more than
          > likely being hypocritical. Widespread hypocrisy is always an ethical
          > concern, especially for cases in which it seems no one has discovered
          > the hypocrisy yet.
          >
          > That's my atheist thought for the day.
          >
          > Larry Jones
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Keigo
          ... ... A good question. Or, as Al Gore might say, an inconvenient question. Another inconvenient question is the fate of natural miscarriages. It is estimated
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 3, 2008
            --- liftr450 <liftr450@...> wrote:

            > I was just wondering about something. If
            > "pro-lifers" actually
            > believe that personhood begins at conception, why
            > would they ever
            > celebrate birthdays?
            ...
            A good question. Or, as Al Gore might say, an
            inconvenient question. Another inconvenient question
            is the fate of natural miscarriages. It is estimated
            that 15-20% of all pregnancies are aborted from
            natural causes before the end of the 20th week
            following conception. I don't hear of attempts to
            retrieve these fetuses and give them their last
            rights, burial (or whatever). I wonder why?

            Keigo / Powell River / Canada


            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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          • Brett McKenzie
            It d be like two birthdays! Sweet! Twice as many presents. I m not paranoid. If they aren t trying to get me, they should be. --BM
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 4, 2008
              It'd be like two birthdays! Sweet! Twice as many presents.<html><div>"I'm not paranoid. If they aren't trying to get me, they should be." <BR>--BM <BR></div></html>


              To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.comFrom: liftr450@...: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:09:36 +0000Subject: [CanadianAtheist] A minor point I thought might be worth a little discussion




              I was just wondering about something. If "pro-lifers" actuallybelieve that personhood begins at conception, why would they evercelebrate birthdays? Why not celebrate conception days instead? Birthdays are meant to celebrate the beginning of a person's life, butif a person's life begins at conception, then that changes the wholepoint of birthday celebrations. Of course, if birthdays refer to the"coming out" into society of a person and not to the beginning of aperson's life, then that's different, but I don't think most peoplesee birthdays in that way.My point is that "pro-lifers" who celebrate birthdays are more thanlikely being hypocritical. Widespread hypocrisy is always an ethicalconcern, especially for cases in which it seems no one has discoveredthe hypocrisy yet.That's my atheist thought for the day.Larry Jones







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Larry Jones
              December 25th is celebrated as Jesus birthday. Of course, no one knows when or even if Jesus birthday ever was. Philosophically it doesn t make much sense
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 4, 2008
                December 25th is celebrated as Jesus' birthday. Of course, no one knows when or even if Jesus' birthday ever was. Philosophically it doesn't make much sense to celebrate birth as more important than the original date of personhood if they are not the same date. There is NO holiday (that I know of) celebrating Jesus' original date of "human personhood"---date of "immaculate conception." It's disingenuous for christians not to have a special celebration day for the origination of Jesus' human personhood. In other words, their own christmas holiday AND biblical text supports the idea that life begins at birth, not at conception. In order not to be hypocritical about this in the catholic church, the Pope would need to declare an annual "Immaculate Conception Day" and make that an even more important holiday than christmas. Of course, what would be the point in that? Trying to clear out all the hypocrisy in the catholic church issue by issue would wipe out the church
                completely because it's riddled with hypocrisy. It just goes to show that dogmatic religion is anti-intellectual (and thus mentally and emotionally abusive) by its very nature. Any time logical inconsistencies become "off bounds" for questioning, abuse is taking place.

                I say, practice what you preach, christians, and have a merry immaculate conception day.

                Larry Jones

                ---------------------------------
                You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • * Pyrolistical
                Hold on, in the Christian world, Jesus is born from a virgin. So you can argue there is no date of conception. ... [Non-text portions of this message have
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 4, 2008
                  Hold on, in the Christian world, Jesus is born from a virgin. So you can
                  argue there is no date of conception.

                  On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Larry Jones <liftr450@...> wrote:

                  > December 25th is celebrated as Jesus' birthday. Of course, no one knows
                  > when or even if Jesus' birthday ever was. Philosophically it doesn't make
                  > much sense to celebrate birth as more important than the original date of
                  > personhood if they are not the same date. There is NO holiday (that I know
                  > of) celebrating Jesus' original date of "human personhood"---date of
                  > "immaculate conception." It's disingenuous for christians not to have a
                  > special celebration day for the origination of Jesus' human personhood. In
                  > other words, their own christmas holiday AND biblical text supports the idea
                  > that life begins at birth, not at conception. In order not to be
                  > hypocritical about this in the catholic church, the Pope would need to
                  > declare an annual "Immaculate Conception Day" and make that an even more
                  > important holiday than christmas. Of course, what would be the point in
                  > that? Trying to clear out all the hypocrisy in the catholic church issue by
                  > issue would wipe out the church
                  > completely because it's riddled with hypocrisy. It just goes to show that
                  > dogmatic religion is anti-intellectual (and thus mentally and emotionally
                  > abusive) by its very nature. Any time logical inconsistencies become "off
                  > bounds" for questioning, abuse is taking place.
                  >
                  > I say, practice what you preach, christians, and have a merry immaculate
                  > conception day.
                  >
                  > Larry Jones
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
                  > Total Access, No Cost.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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