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Re: [CanadianAtheist] INTERESTING STATISTICS ABOUT ARABS & JEWS

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  • underwatersky
    the rape of palestine? surely you jest. I still have no idea why secularists in the western world continue to support the most brutal and inhumane
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
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      the rape of palestine? surely you jest. I still have
      no idea why secularists in the western world continue
      to support the most brutal and inhumane theocracies in
      the rest of the world. you might want to do a bit of
      history before trying to decide who is trying to wipe
      who off the map. This comment was beyond ludicrous.
      This is the same anti-intellectual swamp land
      inhabited by people who can simultaneously say Jews
      need to get off of "arab" land, but Israel should
      allow itself to be swamped with "refugees" until it no
      longer exists. In Israel, the 2 party state is the
      one that has been favoured since the 1940's. In no
      arab country will you find a map that shows Israel...

      why don't you start your own group..."canadian
      freethinkers for murderous theocracy as long as it
      isn't here." A better question... in a purely secular
      world, would anyone care that Israel existed as a
      Jewish state?
      --- Dan Roper <dicoll3000@...> wrote:

      >
      > And how does all this relate to the rape of
      > Palestine?
      > Is it a justification for wiping Palestine off
      > the map?
      >
      > With all this brainpower on their side, why have
      > Jews not found a better way than to brutalize the
      > Palestinian people?
      > http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/
      >
      > Its: 'My god is better than your god'.
      > Israel is based of the perception of religious
      > entitlement.
      >
      > In a purely secular world, would Israel have a
      > right to exist?
      >
      > Dan Roper
      >
      >
      > -----------------Original
      > Message-------------------
      >
      > Sent: Monday,October 29,2007 5:06 PM
      > Subject: INTERESTING STATISTICS ABOUT ARABS &
      > JEWS
      >
      > The Global Islamic population is approximately
      > 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population.
      >
      > They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
      > Literature:
      >
      >
      > 1988 - Najib Mahfooz
      >
      > Peace:
      >
      > 1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
      > 1994 - Yaser Arafat:
      > 1990 - Elias James Corey
      >
      > 1999 - Ahmed Zewai
      >
      > Economics:
      > (none)
      > Medicine:
      >
      > 1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
      > 1998 - Ferid Mourad
      >
      **************************************************************************
      >
      >
      > The Global Jewish population is approximately
      > 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of
      > the world population.
      >
      > They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
      >
      > Literature:
      >
      > 1910 - Paul Heyse
      > 1927 - Henri Bergson
      > 1958 - Boris Pasternak
      > 1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
      > 1966 - Nelly Sachs
      > 1976 - Saul Bellow
      > 1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
      > 1981 - Elias ! Canetti
      > 1987 - Joseph Brodsky
      > 1991 - Nadine Gordimer World
      >
      > Peace:
      >
      > 1911 - Alfred Fried
      > 1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
      > 1968 - Rene Cassin
      > 1973 - Henry Kissinger
      > 1978 - Menachem Begin
      > 1986 - Elie Wiesel
      > 1994 - Shimon Peres
      > 1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
      > Physics:
      >
      > 1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
      > 1906 - Henri Moissan
      > 1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
      > 1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
      > 1910 - Otto Wallach
      > 1915 - Richard Willstaetter
      > 1918 - Fritz Haber
      > 1921 - Albert Einstein
      > 1922 - Niels Bohr
      > 1925 - James Franck
      > 1925 - Gustav Hertz
      > 1943 - Gustav Stern
      > 1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
      > 1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
      > 1952 - Felix Bloc h
      > 1954 - Max Born
      > 1958 - Igor Tamm
      > 1959 - Emilio Segre
      > 1960 - Donald A. Glaser
      > 1961 - Robert Hofstadter
      > 1961 - Melvin Calvin
      > 1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
      > 1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
      > 1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
      > 1965 - Julian Schwinger
      > 1969 - Murr! ay Gell-Mann
      > 1971 - Dennis Gabor
      > 1972 - William Howard S! tein
      > 1973 - Brian David Josephson
      > 1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
      > 1976 - Burton Richter
      > 1977 - Ilya Prigogine
      > 1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
      > 1978 - Peter L Kapitza
      > 1979 - Stephen Weinberg
      > 1979 - Sheldon Glashow
      > 1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
      > 1980 - Paul Berg
      > 1980 - Walter Gilbert
      > 1981 - Roald Hoffmann
      > 1982 - Aaron Klug
      > 1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
      > 1985 - Jerome Karle
      > 1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
      > 1988 - Robert Huber
      > 1988 - Leon Lederman
      > 1988 - Melvin Schwartz
      > 1988 - Jack Steinberger
      > 1989 - Sidney Altman
      > 1990 - Jerome Friedman
      > 1992 - Rudolph Marcus
      > 1995 - Martin Perl
      > 2000 - Alan J. Heeger
      >
      > Economics:
      >
      > 1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
      > 1971 - Simon Kuznets
      > 1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
      > 1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
      > 1976 - Milton Friedman
      > 1978 - Herbert A. Simon
      > 1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
      > 1985 - Franco Modigliani
      > 1987 - Robert M. Solow
      > 1990 - Harry Markowitz
      > 1990 - Merton Miller
      > 1992 - Ga! ry Becker
      > 1993 - Robert Fogel
      >
      > Medicine:
      >
      > 1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
      > 1908 - Paul Erlich
      > 1914 - Robert Barany
      > 1922 - Otto Meyerhof
      > 1930 - Karl Landsteiner
      > 1931 - Otto Warburg
      > 1936 - Otto Loewi
      > 1944 - Joseph Erlanger
      > 1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
      > 1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
      > 1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
      > 1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
      > 1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
      > 1953 - Hans Krebs
      > 1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
      > 1958 - Joshua Lederberg
      > 1959 - Arthur Kornberg
      > 1964 - Konrad Bloch
      > 1965 - Francois Jaco b
      > 1965 - Andre Lwoff
      > 1967 - George Wald
      > 1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
      > 1969 - Salvador Luria
      > 1970 - Julius Axelrod
      > 1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
      > 1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
      > 1975 - Howard Martin Temin
      > 1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
      > 1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
      > 1978 - Daniel Nathans
      > 1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
      > 1984 - Cesar Milstein
      > 1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
      > 1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
      > 1986 - St! anley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
      > 1988 - Gertrude El! ion
      > 1 989 - Harold Varmus
      > 1991 - Erwin Neher
      > 1991 - Bert Sakmann
      > 1993 - Richard J. Roberts
      > 1993 - Phillip Sharp
      > 1994 - Alfred Gilman
      > 1995 - Edward B. Lewis
      >
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • Dan Roper
      That is certainly a passionate response, but does it make sense? the rape of palestine? surely you jest. No. In the early 19th century, Arabs and Jews lived
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
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        That is certainly a passionate response, but does it make sense?

        "the rape of palestine? surely you jest."
        No. In the early 19th century, Arabs and Jews lived relatively peacefully within the
        Palestinian territory. Of course the Jewish component at that time was only about 5
        percent of the total population. After 1945, the mass immigration of Jews changed the
        demographics in that part of the world and Zionist terror attacks on the Arabian
        population began the cycle of violence that is still being fought today.
        http://www.ummah.com/waragainstislam/terrorism.htm

        "I still have no idea why secularists in the western world continue to support the most
        brutal and inhumane theocracies in the rest of the world."
        I consider present day Israel a brutal and inhumane theocracy that openly practices
        apartheid.

        "you might want to do a bit of history before trying to decide who is trying to wipe who off
        the map. This comment was beyond ludicrous."
        Have you seen the map I attached? It's in the file section of the group.
        Title: Palestine 1945-2000
        Here is the link:
        http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/4NspR8b2mjaTvgJlFoQZxdesmmX8ixux4-
        NdRJTY90ZdB9lf5kDQFzelULM9TClrfciE0iFuPtQrhZbyi6PJ/PalestineWipedOffTheMap.jpg

        "This is the same anti-intellectual swamp land inhabited by people who can
        simultaneously say Jews need to get off of "arab" land, but Israel should allow itself to be
        swamped with "refugees" until it no longer exists. In Israel, the 2 party state is the one that
        has been favoured since the 1940's. In no arab country will you find a map that shows
        Israel..."
        What should be called anti-intellectual is the attitude that a piece of land has been
        promised to a certain group of people by their god. A claim that is accepted as fact by
        millions of Christians and Jews around the world. The people you call 'refugees" are the
        original people who used to live on that land but were forcefully displaced by the jewish
        mass immigration.

        "why don't you start your own group..."Canadian freethinkers for murderous theocracy as
        long as it isn't here. A better question... in a purely secular world, would anyone care that
        Israel existed as a Jewish state?"
        Now, now, there is no need to get nasty. You are obviously passionate about Israel but I
        want to explore this from a rational, secular point of view. Given that the existence of
        Israel is the result of a religious claim, can we as Atheist have the courage of our
        convictions and say that the claim is bogus?

        Dan Roper


        --- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, underwatersky <skyfi_99@...> wrote:
        >
        > the rape of palestine? surely you jest. I still have
        > no idea why secularists in the western world continue
        > to support the most brutal and inhumane theocracies in
        > the rest of the world. you might want to do a bit of
        > history before trying to decide who is trying to wipe
        > who off the map. This comment was beyond ludicrous.
        > This is the same anti-intellectual swamp land
        > inhabited by people who can simultaneously say Jews
        > need to get off of "arab" land, but Israel should
        > allow itself to be swamped with "refugees" until it no
        > longer exists. In Israel, the 2 party state is the
        > one that has been favoured since the 1940's. In no
        > arab country will you find a map that shows Israel...
        >
        > why don't you start your own group..."canadian
        > freethinkers for murderous theocracy as long as it
        > isn't here." A better question... in a purely secular
        > world, would anyone care that Israel existed as a
        > Jewish state?
        > --- Dan Roper <dicoll3000@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > And how does all this relate to the rape of
        > > Palestine?
        > > Is it a justification for wiping Palestine off
        > > the map?
        > >
        > > With all this brainpower on their side, why have
        > > Jews not found a better way than to brutalize the
        > > Palestinian people?
        > > http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/
        > >
        > > Its: 'My god is better than your god'.
        > > Israel is based of the perception of religious
        > > entitlement.
        > >
        > > In a purely secular world, would Israel have a
        > > right to exist?
        > >
        > > Dan Roper

        > === message truncated ===
      • aquaticape68
        Israel is an illegitimate state, and it s formation was one of the biggest mistakes in history. The world continues to pay a heavy price for it, but we need to
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
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          Israel is an illegitimate state, and it's formation was one of the
          biggest mistakes in history. The world continues to pay a heavy price
          for it, but we need to find a way to fix it and move forward.

          Some ideas:

          1 Internationalise all the religious "holy sites." (Put them under UN
          control, with peacekeepers authorized to shoot to kill if necessary,
          to maintain free and unfettered access by anyone.)

          2. Establish a South African style "Truth and Reconciliation
          Commission" under the auspices of the UN, to address, and provide
          binding amnesty to, all stakeholders, on all issues going back to 1947.

          3. Require Israel to dismantle all the settlements in the occupied
          territories

          4. Require Israel to reform its constitution so that displaced Arabs
          can become citizens, separate church and state and establish a special
          court to enable property claims / compensation to proceed. (Just like
          European holocaust claims have proceeded in favour of Jews, to claim
          property stolen by the Nazis.)

          5. Establish a secular, democratic Palestinian state.

          --AA



          --- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Roper" <dicoll@...> wrote:
          >
          > That is certainly a passionate response, but does it make sense?
          >
          > "the rape of palestine? surely you jest."
          > No. In the early 19th century, Arabs and Jews lived relatively
          peacefully within the
          > Palestinian territory. Of course the Jewish component at that time
          was only about 5
          > percent of the total population. After 1945, the mass immigration of
          Jews changed the
          > demographics in that part of the world and Zionist terror attacks on
          the Arabian
          > population began the cycle of violence that is still being fought today.
          > http://www.ummah.com/waragainstislam/terrorism.htm
          >
          > "I still have no idea why secularists in the western world continue
          to support the most
          > brutal and inhumane theocracies in the rest of the world."
          > I consider present day Israel a brutal and inhumane theocracy that
          openly practices
          > apartheid.
          >
          > "you might want to do a bit of history before trying to decide who
          is trying to wipe who off
          > the map. This comment was beyond ludicrous."
          > Have you seen the map I attached? It's in the file section of the group.
          > Title: Palestine 1945-2000
          > Here is the link:
          > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/4NspR8b2mjaTvgJlFoQZxdesmmX8ixux4-
          >
          NdRJTY90ZdB9lf5kDQFzelULM9TClrfciE0iFuPtQrhZbyi6PJ/PalestineWipedOffTheMap.jpg
          >
          > "This is the same anti-intellectual swamp land inhabited by people
          who can
          > simultaneously say Jews need to get off of "arab" land, but Israel
          should allow itself to be
          > swamped with "refugees" until it no longer exists. In Israel, the 2
          party state is the one that
          > has been favoured since the 1940's. In no arab country will you find
          a map that shows
          > Israel..."
          > What should be called anti-intellectual is the attitude that a piece
          of land has been
          > promised to a certain group of people by their god. A claim that is
          accepted as fact by
          > millions of Christians and Jews around the world. The people you
          call 'refugees" are the
          > original people who used to live on that land but were forcefully
          displaced by the jewish
          > mass immigration.
          >
          > "why don't you start your own group..."Canadian freethinkers for
          murderous theocracy as
          > long as it isn't here. A better question... in a purely secular
          world, would anyone care that
          > Israel existed as a Jewish state?"
          > Now, now, there is no need to get nasty. You are obviously
          passionate about Israel but I
          > want to explore this from a rational, secular point of view. Given
          that the existence of
          > Israel is the result of a religious claim, can we as Atheist have
          the courage of our
          > convictions and say that the claim is bogus?
          >
          > Dan Roper
          >
          >
          > --- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, underwatersky <skyfi_99@> wrote:
          > >
          > > the rape of palestine? surely you jest. I still have
          > > no idea why secularists in the western world continue
          > > to support the most brutal and inhumane theocracies in
          > > the rest of the world. you might want to do a bit of
          > > history before trying to decide who is trying to wipe
          > > who off the map. This comment was beyond ludicrous.
          > > This is the same anti-intellectual swamp land
          > > inhabited by people who can simultaneously say Jews
          > > need to get off of "arab" land, but Israel should
          > > allow itself to be swamped with "refugees" until it no
          > > longer exists. In Israel, the 2 party state is the
          > > one that has been favoured since the 1940's. In no
          > > arab country will you find a map that shows Israel...
          > >
          > > why don't you start your own group..."canadian
          > > freethinkers for murderous theocracy as long as it
          > > isn't here." A better question... in a purely secular
          > > world, would anyone care that Israel existed as a
          > > Jewish state?
          > > --- Dan Roper <dicoll3000@> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > > And how does all this relate to the rape of
          > > > Palestine?
          > > > Is it a justification for wiping Palestine off
          > > > the map?
          > > >
          > > > With all this brainpower on their side, why have
          > > > Jews not found a better way than to brutalize the
          > > > Palestinian people?
          > > > http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/
          > > >
          > > > Its: 'My god is better than your god'.
          > > > Israel is based of the perception of religious
          > > > entitlement.
          > > >
          > > > In a purely secular world, would Israel have a
          > > > right to exist?
          > > >
          > > > Dan Roper
          >
          > > === message truncated ===
          >
        • Brett McKenzie
          This, to quote a thousand horrible movies, sounds crazy enough to work! I m not paranoid. If they aren t trying to get me, they should be. --BM
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            This, to quote a thousand horrible movies, sounds crazy enough to work!<html><div>"I'm not paranoid. If they aren't trying to get me, they should be." <BR>--BM <BR></div></html>


            To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.comFrom: aquaticape68@...: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:04:54 +0000Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: INTERESTING STATISTICS ABOUT ARABS & JEWS




            Israel is an illegitimate state, and it's formation was one of thebiggest mistakes in history. The world continues to pay a heavy pricefor it, but we need to find a way to fix it and move forward.Some ideas:1 Internationalise all the religious "holy sites." (Put them under UNcontrol, with peacekeepers authorized to shoot to kill if necessary,to maintain free and unfettered access by anyone.)2. Establish a South African style "Truth and ReconciliationCommission" under the auspices of the UN, to address, and providebinding amnesty to, all stakeholders, on all issues going back to 1947.3. Require Israel to dismantle all the settlements in the occupiedterritories4. Require Israel to reform its constitution so that displaced Arabscan become citizens, separate church and state and establish a specialcourt to enable property claims / compensation to proceed. (Just likeEuropean holocaust claims have proceeded in favour of Jews, to claimproperty stolen by the Nazis.)5. Establish a secular, democratic Palestinian state.--AA--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Roper" <dicoll@...> wrote:>> That is certainly a passionate response, but does it make sense?> > "the rape of palestine? surely you jest."> No. In the early 19th century, Arabs and Jews lived relativelypeacefully within the > Palestinian territory. Of course the Jewish component at that timewas only about 5 > percent of the total population. After 1945, the mass immigration ofJews changed the > demographics in that part of the world and Zionist terror attacks onthe Arabian > population began the cycle of violence that is still being fought today.> http://www.ummah.com/waragainstislam/terrorism.htm> > "I still have no idea why secularists in the western world continueto support the most > brutal and inhumane theocracies in the rest of the world."> I consider present day Israel a brutal and inhumane theocracy thatopenly practices > apartheid.> > "you might want to do a bit of history before trying to decide whois trying to wipe who off > the map. This comment was beyond ludicrous."> Have you seen the map I attached? It's in the file section of the group.> Title: Palestine 1945-2000> Here is the link:> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/4NspR8b2mjaTvgJlFoQZxdesmmX8ixux4->NdRJTY90ZdB9lf5kDQFzelULM9TClrfciE0iFuPtQrhZbyi6PJ/PalestineWipedOffTheMap.jpg> > "This is the same anti-intellectual swamp land inhabited by peoplewho can > simultaneously say Jews need to get off of "arab" land, but Israelshould allow itself to be > swamped with "refugees" until it no longer exists. In Israel, the 2party state is the one that > has been favoured since the 1940's. In no arab country will you finda map that shows > Israel..."> What should be called anti-intellectual is the attitude that a pieceof land has been > promised to a certain group of people by their god. A claim that isaccepted as fact by > millions of Christians and Jews around the world. The people youcall 'refugees" are the > original people who used to live on that land but were forcefullydisplaced by the jewish > mass immigration.> > "why don't you start your own group..."Canadian freethinkers formurderous theocracy as > long as it isn't here. A better question... in a purely secularworld, would anyone care that > Israel existed as a Jewish state?"> Now, now, there is no need to get nasty. You are obviouslypassionate about Israel but I > want to explore this from a rational, secular point of view. Giventhat the existence of > Israel is the result of a religious claim, can we as Atheist havethe courage of our > convictions and say that the claim is bogus?> > Dan Roper> > > --- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, underwatersky <skyfi_99@> wrote:> >> > the rape of palestine? surely you jest. I still have> > no idea why secularists in the western world continue> > to support the most brutal and inhumane theocracies in> > the rest of the world. you might want to do a bit of> > history before trying to decide who is trying to wipe> > who off the map. This comment was beyond ludicrous. > > This is the same anti-intellectual swamp land> > inhabited by people who can simultaneously say Jews> > need to get off of "arab" land, but Israel should> > allow itself to be swamped with "refugees" until it no> > longer exists. In Israel, the 2 party state is the> > one that has been favoured since the 1940's. In no> > arab country will you find a map that shows Israel...> > > > why don't you start your own group..."canadian> > freethinkers for murderous theocracy as long as it> > isn't here." A better question... in a purely secular> > world, would anyone care that Israel existed as a> > Jewish state? > > --- Dan Roper <dicoll3000@> wrote:> > > > > > > > And how does all this relate to the rape of> > > Palestine?> > > Is it a justification for wiping Palestine off> > > the map?> > > > > > With all this brainpower on their side, why have> > > Jews not found a better way than to brutalize the> > > Palestinian people?> > > http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/> > > > > > Its: 'My god is better than your god'.> > > Israel is based of the perception of religious> > > entitlement.> > > > > > In a purely secular world, would Israel have a> > > right to exist?> > > > > > Dan Roper> > > === message truncated ===>







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • louis_cypher667
            I find it odd... Much of the scare mongering coming from the west is over the (horror) of Islamic States, theocracies set up to protect and further Islam.
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
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              I find it odd...

              Much of the scare mongering coming from the west is over the (horror)
              of Islamic States, theocracies set up to protect and further Islam.

              Yet... Israel exists as a bastion of Judaism. A state set up to
              protect a purly theological distinction.

              Most of the refugee-jews that now make up the majority of the
              population have only a tenuous claim to being semetic, as tenuous as
              any I might have that after 7 or eight generations on this continent
              I am actually 'Irish'.

              Yes, and as one poster said, if the arabs would just lay down their
              weapons, there would be no conflict... but then, if the blacks in the
              states would have just stopped being so uppity, there wouldn't have
              been any lynchings.

              LC >;-}>
            • Dr. Newton Joseph
              ... From: aquaticape68 To: Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: [CanadianAtheist]
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 2, 2007
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "aquaticape68" <aquaticape68@...>
                To: <CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:04 PM
                Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: INTERESTING STATISTICS ABOUT ARABS & JEWS


                >




                FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL

                By Susan Peters



                Submitted by Newton Joseph,Ph.D.



                This monumental and fascinating book, the product of seven years of original
                research, will forever change the terms of the debate about the conflicting
                claims of the Arabs and the Jews in the Middle East.

                The weight of the comprehensive evidence found and brilliantly
                analyzed by Joan Peters answers many critical questions, among them: Why are
                the Arab refugees from Israel seen in a different light from all other, far
                more numerous peoples who were displaced after World War II? Why, indeed,
                are they seen differently from the Jewish refugees who were forced, in 1948
                and after, to leave the Arab countries to find a haven in Israel? Who, in
                fact, are the Arabs who were living within the borders of the present-day
                Israel and were did they come from?

                Joan Peter's highly readable and moving development of the
                answers to these and related questions will appear startling, even to those
                of both sides of the argument who have considered themselves to be in
                command of the facts. On the basis of a definitive weight of hitherto
                unexamined population and other historical data, much of it buried in
                untouched archives, Peters demonstrates that Jews did not dispatch Arabs in
                Palestine--just the reverse: Arabs displaced Jews; that a hidden but major
                Arab migration and immigration that took place into areas settled by Jews in
                pre-Israel Palestine; that a substantial number of Arab refugees called
                Palestinians in reality had foreign roots; that for every Arab refugee who
                left Israel in 1948, there was a Jewish refugee who fled or was expelled
                from his Arab birthplace at the same time--today's much discussed Sephardic
                majority is in fact composed mainly of these Arab-born Jewish refugees or
                their off-spring; that Britain, the Mandatory power, winked at and even
                encouraged Arab immigration into Palestine between two world Wars; that by
                disguising the Arab immigrants as "indigenous native Palestinian Arabs," the
                British justified their restrictions on Jewish immigration and settlement,
                dooming masses of European Jews to destruction in the Nazi camps.

                Joan Peters also unfolds a historical record to shatter the
                widely held belief that Arabs and Jews harmoniously coexisted foe centuries
                in the Arab world--the fact is that the Jews, along with other non-Muslims,
                were treated as second -class citizens, oppressed in the Muslim world for
                more than millennium. And this continuing prejudicial tradition of hostility
                underlies, as well, every Arab action toward the state of Israel.

                In addition to her pioneering archival re-searches, Joan Peters
                has frequently traveled in the Middle East, conducting numerous interviews
                and gathering the personal observations of a first-rate reporter she is. The
                result is a book that is certain to have a major impact on all future
                discussions of one of the most vital and intractable of the world's
                problems, shrouded until now in a fog of misinformation and ignorance.

                Joan Peters has written and lectured widely on the Middle East,
                Central America, and the Soviet Union. She contributes to Harper's
                Commentary, The New Republic, The New Leader, and other periodicals, and was
                a White House consultant on the Middle East in 1977.
              • Dan Roper
                Based on the following reviews, this book should be read with a healthy dose of scepticism. Dan Roper ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 2, 2007
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                  Based on the following reviews, this book should be read with a healthy dose of
                  scepticism.

                  Dan Roper
                  ------------------------------------

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial

                  Reviewing the book for the January 16, 1986 issue of The New York Review of Books,
                  Yehoshua Porath wrote:
                  "Readers of her book should be warned not to accept its factual claims without checking
                  their sources. Judging by the interest that the book aroused and the prestige of some who
                  have endorsed it, I thought it would present some new interpretation of the historical
                  facts. I found none. Everyone familiar with the writing of the extreme nationalists of Zeev
                  Jabotinsky's Revisionist party (the forerunner of the Herut party) would immediately
                  recognize the tired and discredited arguments in Mrs. Peters's book. I had mistakenly
                  thought them long forgotten. It is a pity that they have been given new life."

                  In response to Porath, Daniel Pipes expressed a more favorable opinion, stating:
                  "From Time Immemorial quotes carelessly, uses statistics sloppily, and ignores
                  inconvenient facts. Much of the book is irrelevant to Miss Peters's central thesis. The
                  author's linguistic and scholarly abilities are open to question. Excessive use of quotation
                  marks, eccentric footnotes, and a polemical, somewhat hysterical undertone mar the book.
                  In short, From Time Immemorial stands out as an appallingly crafted book."
                  "Granting all this, the fact remains that the book presents a thesis that neither Professor
                  Porath nor any other reviewer has so far succeeded in refuting. Miss Peters's central thesis
                  is that a substantial immigration of Arabs to Palestine took place during the first half of
                  the twentieth century. She supports this argument with an array of demographic statistics
                  and contemporary accounts, the bulk of which have not been questioned by any reviewer,
                  including Professor Porath."

                  Norman G. Finkelstein alleged in his book Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict
                  that much of Peters' scholarship was fraudulent. From Time Immemorial later became the
                  central issue in the Dershowitz-Finkelstein affair.
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------

                  --- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Newton Joseph" <drnjoseph@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "aquaticape68" <aquaticape68@...>
                  > To: <CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:04 PM
                  > Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: INTERESTING STATISTICS ABOUT ARABS & JEWS
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL
                  >
                  > By Susan Peters
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Submitted by Newton Joseph,Ph.D.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This monumental and fascinating book, the product of seven years of original
                  > research, will forever change the terms of the debate about the conflicting
                  > claims of the Arabs and the Jews in the Middle East.
                  >
                  > The weight of the comprehensive evidence found and brilliantly
                  > analyzed by Joan Peters answers many critical questions, among them: Why are
                  > the Arab refugees from Israel seen in a different light from all other, far
                  > more numerous peoples who were displaced after World War II? Why, indeed,
                  > are they seen differently from the Jewish refugees who were forced, in 1948
                  > and after, to leave the Arab countries to find a haven in Israel? Who, in
                  > fact, are the Arabs who were living within the borders of the present-day
                  > Israel and were did they come from?
                  >
                  > Joan Peter's highly readable and moving development of the
                  > answers to these and related questions will appear startling, even to those
                  > of both sides of the argument who have considered themselves to be in
                  > command of the facts. On the basis of a definitive weight of hitherto
                  > unexamined population and other historical data, much of it buried in
                  > untouched archives, Peters demonstrates that Jews did not dispatch Arabs in
                  > Palestine--just the reverse: Arabs displaced Jews; that a hidden but major
                  > Arab migration and immigration that took place into areas settled by Jews in
                  > pre-Israel Palestine; that a substantial number of Arab refugees called
                  > Palestinians in reality had foreign roots; that for every Arab refugee who
                  > left Israel in 1948, there was a Jewish refugee who fled or was expelled
                  > from his Arab birthplace at the same time--today's much discussed Sephardic
                  > majority is in fact composed mainly of these Arab-born Jewish refugees or
                  > their off-spring; that Britain, the Mandatory power, winked at and even
                  > encouraged Arab immigration into Palestine between two world Wars; that by
                  > disguising the Arab immigrants as "indigenous native Palestinian Arabs," the
                  > British justified their restrictions on Jewish immigration and settlement,
                  > dooming masses of European Jews to destruction in the Nazi camps.
                  >
                  > Joan Peters also unfolds a historical record to shatter the
                  > widely held belief that Arabs and Jews harmoniously coexisted foe centuries
                  > in the Arab world--the fact is that the Jews, along with other non-Muslims,
                  > were treated as second -class citizens, oppressed in the Muslim world for
                  > more than millennium. And this continuing prejudicial tradition of hostility
                  > underlies, as well, every Arab action toward the state of Israel.
                  >
                  > In addition to her pioneering archival re-searches, Joan Peters
                  > has frequently traveled in the Middle East, conducting numerous interviews
                  > and gathering the personal observations of a first-rate reporter she is. The
                  > result is a book that is certain to have a major impact on all future
                  > discussions of one of the most vital and intractable of the world's
                  > problems, shrouded until now in a fog of misinformation and ignorance.
                  >
                  > Joan Peters has written and lectured widely on the Middle East,
                  > Central America, and the Soviet Union. She contributes to Harper's
                  > Commentary, The New Republic, The New Leader, and other periodicals, and was
                  > a White House consultant on the Middle East in 1977.
                  >
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