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Re: RE: [CalontirDance] Lilies Classes

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  • Kirsten Garner
    Hi Conrad (et all..) All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there this year! :) ... and how ... Dolche Amoroso ... Villanella?). ...
    Message 1 of 18 , May 3, 2000
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      Hi Conrad (et all..)

      All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
      this year! :)

      > Tentatively I'd like to do between 4 and 6 dances depending on time
      and how
      > quickly people learn: Rosti Boli and 1-2 other 15th c. balli,
      Dolche Amoroso
      > Fiamma, Bizzaria d'Amore and/or one other 16th century (maybe
      Villanella?).
      > Some of these I would classify as intro-intermediate, others as
      definately
      > intermediate, another reason for not doing intro.

      Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...

      I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
      mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
      it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
      don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
      this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
      Italians. I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
      I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
      Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
      structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
      like "Carolingian Pavane"
      and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
      learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
      saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
      than that, it went really well. :) Oh, and another word of advice
      (from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
      Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
      and baronial dance practices. ;)

      As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
      how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
      or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
      the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

      I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
      here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
      of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
      difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

      Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
      shaping up like for the KWASS?

      Lady Julian ferch Rhys
      late of Shire of Standing Stones
      now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

      PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
    • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
      ... I couldn t agree more. It s one of my personal crusade dances that I wish would become an SCA standard. It s also one of only two Italian dances that
      Message 2 of 18 , May 3, 2000
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        >Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
        >
        >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
        >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
        >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)

        I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances that I wish
        would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian dances that
        my
        (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other being Petit
        Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


        I
        >don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
        >this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
        >Italians.

        Grrr... this is definately true in C d'E (right Tsire?) and even a bit here in
        NoMountain where we have unusually open folk. Does anyone know how this
        started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation (I must know so that I can set
        some
        large-fanged animals loose in their pavillion at Pennsic)

        I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
        >I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
        >Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
        >structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
        >like "Carolingian Pavane"
        >and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
        >learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
        >saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
        >than that, it went really well. :)

        Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to teach
        Italian
        by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff. It just somehow seems wrong
        in a couple of gut reaction sort of ways. Mostly I think it's because I
        didn't
        learn that way, but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
        but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive. If people are going to enjoy
        Italian dance it probably isn't going to be because it's like Rufty Tufty, but
        because they like it *despite* its not being Rufty Tufty. Just my two cents
        your millage may vary, and all the other usual disclaimers. I'll *definately*
        keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone who is
        having
        lots of problems understanding GET a dance.


        Oh, and another word of advice
        >(from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
        >Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
        >and baronial dance practices. ;)

        *laugh*. I'll keep that in mind.

        >
        >As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
        >how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
        >or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
        >the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

        Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I don't know
        yet. I picked up my repetoire in the Midrealm, from some friends of Mistress
        Rosina's, but their 15th c. rep is actually quite small. I'm hopeing to pick
        up
        some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

        >
        >I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
        >here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
        >of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
        >difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

        *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting people to
        dance
        SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of doom' (this
        is because the CD set I have has SLR repeated three times in a row getting
        progressively faster). Amazingly enough people not only didn't run away from
        that description, but they actually came to practice to see what the heck I
        was
        going on about!


        >Lady Julian ferch Rhys
        >late of Shire of Standing Stones
        >now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

        SO does that mean you're in Phoenix? I imagine you've already met my friend
        who
        is living in Tucson (ack, I can never remember how to spell the name of the
        group down there) Dave/Bartello(I think). If not, you should. If so, he'll
        dance SLR or Rosti Boli with you anytime, just do me a favor and say that
        Katherine from Calontir sent you and everything will be alright!

        Katherine
        (who appologizes for all the list-cluttering chitchat, but that's just

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
        Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
        deanc@... Calontir
        http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
        Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      • Kirsten Garner
        Hi all. :) ... that I wish ... dances that ... being Petit ... I ve got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally throw on to confuse our
        Message 3 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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          Hi all. :)

          > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances
          that I wish
          > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian
          dances that
          > my
          > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other
          being Petit
          > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).

          I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
          throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
          the point. :)

          We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
          Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
          Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
          had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
          prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
          do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

          > Does anyone know how this
          > started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation

          I wish I knew. We do have some prominent people out here who are
          against them, but I guess that it may be because it's got a
          vocabulary that stretches beyond single, double, side, arm, set and
          turn. People seem to resist having to learn something "fur'n". (Yes,
          I'm originally from Arkansas :). Plus, out here, there's been a long
          tradition of completely OOP dances done. And those that are "period"
          (quotes because I'm including ECD here), have some very odd
          mutations. It makes things interesting when you come in and try to
          teach what you know only to have people come back at you with "that's
          wrong" or "that's not how we do it here". I just recently had someone
          call into question the handholds that I teach (i.e., low, not high).
          He said "That's how Master xxxx, our premier Laurel, says it should
          be done." I told him "Well, he's wrong" and went on to cite sources
          and show him illuminations to the contrary. But it does make things a
          little frustrating at times between that and the prevailing "Italians
          are incredibly hard, and only dance laurels can do them" attitude. :(

          > Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to
          teach
          > Italian
          > by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff.

          Out here, it's almost the only way to fly. :( Well, to get people to
          try it. After a while, I start slipping back into Italian, but most
          people seem to accept it by then.

          > but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
          > but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.

          Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
          want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"


          > I'll *definately*
          > keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone
          who is
          > having
          > lots of problems understanding GET a dance.

          This is one of the reasons I go to a lot of beginner classes when I
          travel. I may know all the dances, but you never know when someone
          else might have a way cool way of explaining things. :) And God
          knows, I'm still learning to teach after all these years. ;)

          > Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
          don't know
          > yet.

          Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
          try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
          flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

          > I'm hopeing to pick
          > up
          > some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

          Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
          reconstructions and steps! :)

          > *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
          people to
          > dance
          > SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
          doom'

          OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

          > I imagine you've already met my friend
          > who
          > is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).

          Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
          out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

          Julian
        • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
          Greetings again. ... Oooh... feel like shareing? I m curious now (having helped choreograph a six person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people
          Message 4 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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            Greetings again.

            >I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
            >throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
            >the point. :)

            Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now (having helped choreograph a six
            person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people for the regular
            dance!)

            >
            >We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
            >Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
            >Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
            >had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
            >prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
            >do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

            So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think more people
            would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very flirtatious and
            goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things like that
            quite
            popular indeed!


            >> but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
            >> but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.
            >
            >Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
            >want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"

            Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more often than not
            rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly sounding) I
            just
            clip them off. Spezz and Trab rather than spezzati and trabuchetti come to
            mind
            immediately. Things with silly little names are less intimidating, I guess :)


            >> Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
            >don't know
            >> yet.
            >
            >Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
            >try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
            >flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

            Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we don't have
            homework and can have two hour dance practices.

            >
            >> I'm hopeing to pick
            >> up
            >> some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!
            >
            >Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
            >reconstructions and steps! :)

            Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously, though,
            I'd
            be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big blue book
            of
            15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started poking
            through it.

            >
            >> *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
            >people to
            >> dance
            >> SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
            >doom'
            >
            >OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

            Ok, but I'm not sure whether I really want the blame/credit for that if it
            catches on *laugh*.

            >
            >> I imagine you've already met my friend
            >> who
            >> is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).
            >
            >Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
            >out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

            *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how many steps
            it
            takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is connected to
            every other one.

            Katherine

            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
            Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
            deanc@... Calontir
            http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
            Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          • Kirsten Garner
            Hi! :) ... If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called A la Ferrarese which has that version on it. It s also got music you can use for
            Message 5 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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              Hi! :)
              >> two-person version of Petit Riens
              > Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now

              If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called "A la
              Ferrarese" which has that version on it. It's also got music you can
              use for Patience, Cupido and Dampnes. :)

              > So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think
              more people
              > would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very
              flirtatious and
              > goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things
              like that
              > quite
              > popular indeed!

              I've been working on stressing the "flirtation" thing out here.
              Sometimes it seems like people only think they can flirt in Hole in
              the Wall and Mannschaft. Amoroso at least has been going some way
              towards remedying that. I guess they think that on the whole Italians
              are too difficult to think about flirting in. Which, in a way, I can
              understand since I used to be scared of them too. But, I guess it
              just takes time and patience. :)

              > Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more
              often than not
              > rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly
              sounding) I
              > just
              > clip them off.

              Oh yeah - names that don't have ready English translations just stay
              in Italian. :) I can't see myself calling for a "broken sequence"
              when I can just say "spezzato". :) Although I have been known to
              call "spezzati" "scoochy steps" just to get my point across. :)
              However, that's only for teaching! After the first inital run-
              throughs, it's back to Italian! :)

              >> Mercantia
              > Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we
              don't have
              > homework and can have two hour dance practices.

              It's not overly difficult once you get the idea behind it. What's
              really fun is to work it and Sobria up to be performed together. :)
              Marketplace (where the lady dances with everyone - trying them out,
              as it were) and Sobriety (where she only dances with her partner and
              everyone else tries to pick her up). :) They look really good with a
              lot of facial expression and drama. :) I think the dance part is
              almost secondary. :)

              > Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously,
              though,
              > I'd
              > be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big
              blue book
              > of
              > 15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started
              poking
              > through it.

              Smith? Great resource! :) I've reconstructed so much stuff out of
              that book! :) Not to mention that the first volume is excellent for
              theory. :) (Volume II is back in print, if you weren't aware of that
              yet. :)

              Rosina and I differ on things like riprese, pive and contrepassi. Oh,
              and salterelli. :) We also have some serious differences on
              reconstruction in some of the dances. She does some things that seem
              to me to be really wierd. But that's kinda the thing about dance
              reconstruction - what I see in the source and work out in performance
              may not be what she sees or you see or anyone else sees. The only
              thing we can do is try to keep it intact with the sources themselves.
              However, she and I do have some absolutely reverse ways of looking at
              things sometimes. :)

              > *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how
              many steps
              > it
              > takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is
              connected to
              > every other one.

              Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
              Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
              Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
              the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
              everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
              could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

              I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
              managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
              there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
              for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
              here. :)

              Julian
            • Sauer, Michael F.
              ... Well, better late than never :) ... Hrumph! I came out to your war ;) ... I wouldn t say thare is specific resistance to any dance form. This is not
              Message 6 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                > Hi Conrad (et all..)

                Well, better late than never :)


                > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
                > this year! :)

                Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                > Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
                >
                > I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                > mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                > it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
                > don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
                > this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
                > Italians.

                I wouldn't say thare is specific resistance to any dance form.
                This is not necessarilly a good thing, becaue its mostly that
                the (relatively few) actually interested in dance will try most
                anything. But hte numbers are starting to grow. Of the 9 weekends
                in april and may, dancing has been on the schedule of at least
                5 events!


                > Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
                > shaping up like for the KWASS?

                stay tuned :)

                >
                > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)

                That you know? Have music for?
                I have no idea.

                Conrad
              • Sauer, Michael F.
                ... I agree too, but I don t know the last one (yet). I think the third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the ECD mindset cause it sorta
                Message 7 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                  > >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                  > >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                  > >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                  >
                  > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                  > dances that I wish
                  > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                  > Italian dances that
                  > my
                  > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                  > other being Petit
                  > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


                  I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet). I think the
                  third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                  ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                  while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.


                  Conrad
                • Sauer, Michael F.
                  ... Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for petit rose (a 2 person dance). Conrad
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                    > I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
                    > throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
                    > the point. :)

                    Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for
                    petit rose (a 2 person dance).

                    Conrad
                  • Sauer, Michael F.
                    ... Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina, Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam, Perenell (sp?),
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                      > Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                      > Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                      > Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                      > the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                      > everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
                      > could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

                      Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                      Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                      Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                      Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                      > I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                      > managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                      > there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                      > for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                      > here. :)

                      Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                      if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                      and like what they know.

                      Conrad
                    • Kirsten Garner
                      Hi all.. ... there ... I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;) ... That I know, can dance and
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                        Hi all..

                        > > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get
                        there
                        > > this year! :)
                        >
                        > Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                        I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of
                        Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;)

                        > > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                        >
                        > That you know? Have music for?

                        That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                        15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)

                        It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)

                        Julian
                      • Kirsten Garner
                        Hi again... :) ... year :) Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don t know if I can afford Boston. :) ... like ... That s what I ve been
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                          Hi again... :)

                          > Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last
                          year :)

                          Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don't know
                          if I can afford Boston. :)

                          > Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                          > if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they
                          like
                          > and like what they know.

                          That's what I've been doing. I landed in Atenveldt, went to a dance
                          practice that Friday night and ended up teaching two classes at the
                          Kingdom Dance Collegium (the next day - Saturday). It's been downhill
                          ever since. ;) I'm now baronial dance minister for the barony (and
                          it's a HUGE barony - scared the mess out of me when I first got
                          here). I run two dance practices a month and at events. The problem
                          is that there was already *some* dance out here (mostly OOP and some
                          ECD) which is what people want to do. There is heavy resistance to
                          Italians. So..I try to work around that as well as I can -
                          introducing easy Italians very very very slowly. There's also the
                          ever-present "Can we do X dance?". A good example is Contrapasso
                          Nuovo. To which the answer is inevitably "Which version? Caroso Il
                          Ballarino, Caroso Nobilita, Negri, Master dance laurel's version, or
                          some other odd creation?". No one knows, but when you try to
                          introduce the one you know, the response is, wait for it, "That's not
                          how we do it". It's kinda frustrating at times. So I'm open for
                          suggestions. :)

                          Julian
                        • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                          ... OOh, I m somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I d need a bit of review
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                            >> > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                            >>
                            >> That you know? Have music for?
                            >
                            >That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                            >15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)
                            >
                            >It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)
                            >
                            >Julian

                            OOh, I'm somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the
                            mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I'd need a bit of review
                            before teaching, but not counting the Inns of Court stuff).

                            But then I'm only avoiding a bachelor's!

                            Katherine

                            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                            Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                            Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                            deanc@... Calontir
                            http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                            Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                          • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                            ... Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count? There are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn t want to
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                              >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                              >> Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                              >> Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                              >> Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                              >> the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                              >> everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of -
                              >> could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)
                              >
                              >Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                              >Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                              >Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                              Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count?
                              There
                              are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn't want to
                              (sorry, getting catty for a moment, no one here in Calontir, thank goodness!)

                              So... People I really know: Conrad, Tsire, Daria (in Calontir), Bartolo (in
                              Atenvelt), Alina, Llewellyn, and the rest of the Cynnabar crew (in the
                              Midrealm), Theodorin, Anne, and (briefly) Melusine (in Drachenwald). Must
                              network more....

                              >
                              >Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                              New year for sure. Already budgeting for a plane ticket.

                              >
                              >> I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                              >> managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                              >> there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                              >> for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                              >> here. :)
                              >
                              >Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                              >if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                              >and like what they know.

                              Well, I've been blessed with very open dancers (undergrads at a very liberal
                              college for the most part), but my tactic has been a) to be openly
                              enthusiastic
                              about what I'm going to teach b) never force anything down their throats c)
                              always try to do a balance of new and old stuff (an easy repetoire dance like
                              Black Alman to cement things in their heads, maybe one italian, an
                              intermediate
                              ECD and Posten's or something fast and fun) and c) take things very slowly.

                              And unfortuantely from what I've seen, they haven't quite caught on yet.
                              People
                              may not run from the room when they hear the next dance is going to be Gelosia
                              or something like that, but they don't exactly jump for joy like I've
                              witnessed
                              over Hole in the Head (oops, Wall).

                              Of course I can't speak for what's going on down south.

                              Katheri

                              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                              Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                              Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                              deanc@... Calontir
                              http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                              Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                            • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                              ... Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*). I think the ... Oh, but that s the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah.... Katherine
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                                >> >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                                >> >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                                >> >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                                >>
                                >> I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                                >> dances that I wish
                                >> would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                                >> Italian dances that
                                >> my
                                >> (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                                >> other being Petit
                                >> Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).
                                >
                                >
                                >I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet).

                                Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*).

                                I think the
                                >third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                                >ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                                >while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.
                                >

                                Oh, but that's the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah....

                                Katherine

                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                deanc@... Calontir
                                http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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