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RE: [CalontirDance] Lilies Classes

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  • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
    [snip] ... Great, (Katherine enters planning mode) ... Ok, of the Italian on the play list I can do Petit Riens, Amoroso (can you send me a copy of the music
    Message 1 of 18 , May 2 11:05 AM
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      [snip]

      >> is the Tuesday AM Intro Italian class me!? If so, great :)
      >
      >Yep :)

      Great, (Katherine enters planning mode)

      >
      >> and Judith and I
      >> should probably chat about not covering too much of the same material.
      >
      >My only request is that all the itialian dances in the ball proper
      >(not necessarilly the request dances) be covered during the classes.

      Ok, of the Italian on the play list I can do Petit Riens, Amoroso (can you
      send
      me a copy of the music you're sending out to musicians? There are at least
      two
      versions I know of), Gelosia, and Rosti Boli. I *cannot* teach Il Piantone or
      Ballo del Fiore. Of the four I can teach I will almost certainly be doing RB
      (because it's my favorite Italian dance), but of the other three any/all/or
      none
      would work for me.

      So... Judith, if you're on this list can you please contact me off list
      (deanc@...) so we can figure things out before Crown, if not, could
      someone (Conrad?) send me contact info?

      I was thinking that if you don't object horribly I might gear the Italian
      class
      towards being intermediate rather than introductory. By Intermediate I mean
      people who have reasonable knowlege of how to dance in the SCA (ie can do
      doubles and singles of some genre, have attended dance practices or classes in
      the past), preferably with a bit of Italian experience, not necessarily people
      who even know any Italian (without review). I just don't want to spend a lot
      of
      time getting people to be able to move with the music.

      At this point I'm thinking it would be interesting to cover some dances that
      aren't currently in the Calontir repetoire (at least not that I've seen).
      Tentatively I'd like to do between 4 and 6 dances depending on time and how
      quickly people learn: Rosti Boli and 1-2 other 15th c. balli, Dolche Amoroso
      Fiamma, Bizzaria d'Amore and/or one other 16th century (maybe Villanella?).
      Some of these I would classify as intro-intermediate, others as definately
      intermediate, another reason for not doing intro.
      >
      >> I'd also be happy to take the Monday or Wednesday PM slot if
      >> I could divide it
      >> into two one hour slots. I was thinking that it would be
      >> really fun to do a
      >> Saltarello class (Saltarello la Regina and Saltarello II with
      >> maybe some talk
      >> about the development of the Saltarello form into Italian
      >> dance if I feel up
      >> to
      >> it), but I only have enough material for an hour.
      >
      >Well I'd be like that alot.

      Great!!

      >
      >On another note - do you think we could round up enough
      >people (10-12) to do a Salterello II at performing
      >arts day?

      Yeah, I bet we could. Maybe we could arrange a practice for all those
      interested during the pick-up time because I think all the class-slots for
      dance
      are filled, (right, Tsire?) and then perform it. I'm sure we could scare up
      enough people since I've done it (successfully) with as few a 6 dancers and it
      works really well with only 8.
      >
      (BTW it actually
      >has a name now though I don't remember it)

      Prendente in Giro

      >> That could
      >> easily be paired
      >> with either a quasi-Scottish/Irish (Posten's, Mairi's, and
      >> Scotland the Brave)
      >> or else a more focused intermediate ECD (like Alina's Hey's
      >> are not for Horses
      >> class which has been spreading aroud the Known World!).
      >>
      >> Katherine
      >
      >Both are possible, though I would prefer not to teach the
      >scottish dances at official classes.


      Ok, how about Salterello class followed by Intermediate ECD with Heys
      (Whirligig, Grimstock, and Picking of Sticks [with Alina's permission, of
      course])?

      BTW, what is the space for dance at Lilies, and how tight is the spacing. Is
      there time for classes to go over by 15 minutes if necessary?


      Lot's of questions! Sorry to everyone for the list traffic.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
      Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
      deanc@... Calontir
      http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
      Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    • Kirsten Garner
      Hi Conrad (et all..) All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there this year! :) ... and how ... Dolche Amoroso ... Villanella?). ...
      Message 2 of 18 , May 3 4:19 PM
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        Hi Conrad (et all..)

        All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
        this year! :)

        > Tentatively I'd like to do between 4 and 6 dances depending on time
        and how
        > quickly people learn: Rosti Boli and 1-2 other 15th c. balli,
        Dolche Amoroso
        > Fiamma, Bizzaria d'Amore and/or one other 16th century (maybe
        Villanella?).
        > Some of these I would classify as intro-intermediate, others as
        definately
        > intermediate, another reason for not doing intro.

        Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...

        I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
        mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
        it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
        don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
        this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
        Italians. I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
        I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
        Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
        structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
        like "Carolingian Pavane"
        and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
        learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
        saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
        than that, it went really well. :) Oh, and another word of advice
        (from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
        Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
        and baronial dance practices. ;)

        As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
        how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
        or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
        the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

        I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
        here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
        of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
        difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

        Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
        shaping up like for the KWASS?

        Lady Julian ferch Rhys
        late of Shire of Standing Stones
        now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

        PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
      • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
        ... I couldn t agree more. It s one of my personal crusade dances that I wish would become an SCA standard. It s also one of only two Italian dances that
        Message 3 of 18 , May 3 4:57 PM
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          >Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
          >
          >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
          >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
          >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)

          I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances that I wish
          would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian dances that
          my
          (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other being Petit
          Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


          I
          >don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
          >this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
          >Italians.

          Grrr... this is definately true in C d'E (right Tsire?) and even a bit here in
          NoMountain where we have unusually open folk. Does anyone know how this
          started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation (I must know so that I can set
          some
          large-fanged animals loose in their pavillion at Pennsic)

          I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
          >I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
          >Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
          >structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
          >like "Carolingian Pavane"
          >and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
          >learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
          >saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
          >than that, it went really well. :)

          Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to teach
          Italian
          by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff. It just somehow seems wrong
          in a couple of gut reaction sort of ways. Mostly I think it's because I
          didn't
          learn that way, but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
          but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive. If people are going to enjoy
          Italian dance it probably isn't going to be because it's like Rufty Tufty, but
          because they like it *despite* its not being Rufty Tufty. Just my two cents
          your millage may vary, and all the other usual disclaimers. I'll *definately*
          keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone who is
          having
          lots of problems understanding GET a dance.


          Oh, and another word of advice
          >(from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
          >Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
          >and baronial dance practices. ;)

          *laugh*. I'll keep that in mind.

          >
          >As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
          >how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
          >or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
          >the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

          Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I don't know
          yet. I picked up my repetoire in the Midrealm, from some friends of Mistress
          Rosina's, but their 15th c. rep is actually quite small. I'm hopeing to pick
          up
          some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

          >
          >I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
          >here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
          >of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
          >difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

          *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting people to
          dance
          SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of doom' (this
          is because the CD set I have has SLR repeated three times in a row getting
          progressively faster). Amazingly enough people not only didn't run away from
          that description, but they actually came to practice to see what the heck I
          was
          going on about!


          >Lady Julian ferch Rhys
          >late of Shire of Standing Stones
          >now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

          SO does that mean you're in Phoenix? I imagine you've already met my friend
          who
          is living in Tucson (ack, I can never remember how to spell the name of the
          group down there) Dave/Bartello(I think). If not, you should. If so, he'll
          dance SLR or Rosti Boli with you anytime, just do me a favor and say that
          Katherine from Calontir sent you and everything will be alright!

          Katherine
          (who appologizes for all the list-cluttering chitchat, but that's just

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
          Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
          deanc@... Calontir
          http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
          Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        • Kirsten Garner
          Hi all. :) ... that I wish ... dances that ... being Petit ... I ve got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally throw on to confuse our
          Message 4 of 18 , May 5 12:24 PM
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            Hi all. :)

            > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances
            that I wish
            > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian
            dances that
            > my
            > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other
            being Petit
            > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).

            I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
            throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
            the point. :)

            We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
            Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
            Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
            had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
            prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
            do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

            > Does anyone know how this
            > started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation

            I wish I knew. We do have some prominent people out here who are
            against them, but I guess that it may be because it's got a
            vocabulary that stretches beyond single, double, side, arm, set and
            turn. People seem to resist having to learn something "fur'n". (Yes,
            I'm originally from Arkansas :). Plus, out here, there's been a long
            tradition of completely OOP dances done. And those that are "period"
            (quotes because I'm including ECD here), have some very odd
            mutations. It makes things interesting when you come in and try to
            teach what you know only to have people come back at you with "that's
            wrong" or "that's not how we do it here". I just recently had someone
            call into question the handholds that I teach (i.e., low, not high).
            He said "That's how Master xxxx, our premier Laurel, says it should
            be done." I told him "Well, he's wrong" and went on to cite sources
            and show him illuminations to the contrary. But it does make things a
            little frustrating at times between that and the prevailing "Italians
            are incredibly hard, and only dance laurels can do them" attitude. :(

            > Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to
            teach
            > Italian
            > by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff.

            Out here, it's almost the only way to fly. :( Well, to get people to
            try it. After a while, I start slipping back into Italian, but most
            people seem to accept it by then.

            > but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
            > but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.

            Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
            want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"


            > I'll *definately*
            > keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone
            who is
            > having
            > lots of problems understanding GET a dance.

            This is one of the reasons I go to a lot of beginner classes when I
            travel. I may know all the dances, but you never know when someone
            else might have a way cool way of explaining things. :) And God
            knows, I'm still learning to teach after all these years. ;)

            > Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
            don't know
            > yet.

            Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
            try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
            flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

            > I'm hopeing to pick
            > up
            > some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

            Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
            reconstructions and steps! :)

            > *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
            people to
            > dance
            > SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
            doom'

            OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

            > I imagine you've already met my friend
            > who
            > is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).

            Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
            out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

            Julian
          • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
            Greetings again. ... Oooh... feel like shareing? I m curious now (having helped choreograph a six person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people
            Message 5 of 18 , May 5 2:30 PM
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              Greetings again.

              >I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
              >throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
              >the point. :)

              Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now (having helped choreograph a six
              person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people for the regular
              dance!)

              >
              >We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
              >Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
              >Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
              >had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
              >prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
              >do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

              So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think more people
              would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very flirtatious and
              goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things like that
              quite
              popular indeed!


              >> but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
              >> but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.
              >
              >Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
              >want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"

              Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more often than not
              rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly sounding) I
              just
              clip them off. Spezz and Trab rather than spezzati and trabuchetti come to
              mind
              immediately. Things with silly little names are less intimidating, I guess :)


              >> Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
              >don't know
              >> yet.
              >
              >Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
              >try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
              >flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

              Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we don't have
              homework and can have two hour dance practices.

              >
              >> I'm hopeing to pick
              >> up
              >> some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!
              >
              >Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
              >reconstructions and steps! :)

              Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously, though,
              I'd
              be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big blue book
              of
              15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started poking
              through it.

              >
              >> *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
              >people to
              >> dance
              >> SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
              >doom'
              >
              >OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

              Ok, but I'm not sure whether I really want the blame/credit for that if it
              catches on *laugh*.

              >
              >> I imagine you've already met my friend
              >> who
              >> is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).
              >
              >Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
              >out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

              *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how many steps
              it
              takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is connected to
              every other one.

              Katherine

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
              Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
              deanc@... Calontir
              http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
              Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            • Kirsten Garner
              Hi! :) ... If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called A la Ferrarese which has that version on it. It s also got music you can use for
              Message 6 of 18 , May 5 4:16 PM
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                Hi! :)
                >> two-person version of Petit Riens
                > Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now

                If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called "A la
                Ferrarese" which has that version on it. It's also got music you can
                use for Patience, Cupido and Dampnes. :)

                > So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think
                more people
                > would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very
                flirtatious and
                > goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things
                like that
                > quite
                > popular indeed!

                I've been working on stressing the "flirtation" thing out here.
                Sometimes it seems like people only think they can flirt in Hole in
                the Wall and Mannschaft. Amoroso at least has been going some way
                towards remedying that. I guess they think that on the whole Italians
                are too difficult to think about flirting in. Which, in a way, I can
                understand since I used to be scared of them too. But, I guess it
                just takes time and patience. :)

                > Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more
                often than not
                > rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly
                sounding) I
                > just
                > clip them off.

                Oh yeah - names that don't have ready English translations just stay
                in Italian. :) I can't see myself calling for a "broken sequence"
                when I can just say "spezzato". :) Although I have been known to
                call "spezzati" "scoochy steps" just to get my point across. :)
                However, that's only for teaching! After the first inital run-
                throughs, it's back to Italian! :)

                >> Mercantia
                > Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we
                don't have
                > homework and can have two hour dance practices.

                It's not overly difficult once you get the idea behind it. What's
                really fun is to work it and Sobria up to be performed together. :)
                Marketplace (where the lady dances with everyone - trying them out,
                as it were) and Sobriety (where she only dances with her partner and
                everyone else tries to pick her up). :) They look really good with a
                lot of facial expression and drama. :) I think the dance part is
                almost secondary. :)

                > Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously,
                though,
                > I'd
                > be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big
                blue book
                > of
                > 15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started
                poking
                > through it.

                Smith? Great resource! :) I've reconstructed so much stuff out of
                that book! :) Not to mention that the first volume is excellent for
                theory. :) (Volume II is back in print, if you weren't aware of that
                yet. :)

                Rosina and I differ on things like riprese, pive and contrepassi. Oh,
                and salterelli. :) We also have some serious differences on
                reconstruction in some of the dances. She does some things that seem
                to me to be really wierd. But that's kinda the thing about dance
                reconstruction - what I see in the source and work out in performance
                may not be what she sees or you see or anyone else sees. The only
                thing we can do is try to keep it intact with the sources themselves.
                However, she and I do have some absolutely reverse ways of looking at
                things sometimes. :)

                > *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how
                many steps
                > it
                > takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is
                connected to
                > every other one.

                Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
                could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

                I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                here. :)

                Julian
              • Sauer, Michael F.
                ... Well, better late than never :) ... Hrumph! I came out to your war ;) ... I wouldn t say thare is specific resistance to any dance form. This is not
                Message 7 of 18 , May 8 10:01 AM
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                  > Hi Conrad (et all..)

                  Well, better late than never :)


                  > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
                  > this year! :)

                  Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                  > Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
                  >
                  > I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                  > mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                  > it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
                  > don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
                  > this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
                  > Italians.

                  I wouldn't say thare is specific resistance to any dance form.
                  This is not necessarilly a good thing, becaue its mostly that
                  the (relatively few) actually interested in dance will try most
                  anything. But hte numbers are starting to grow. Of the 9 weekends
                  in april and may, dancing has been on the schedule of at least
                  5 events!


                  > Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
                  > shaping up like for the KWASS?

                  stay tuned :)

                  >
                  > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)

                  That you know? Have music for?
                  I have no idea.

                  Conrad
                • Sauer, Michael F.
                  ... I agree too, but I don t know the last one (yet). I think the third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the ECD mindset cause it sorta
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 8 10:04 AM
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                    > >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                    > >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                    > >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                    >
                    > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                    > dances that I wish
                    > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                    > Italian dances that
                    > my
                    > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                    > other being Petit
                    > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


                    I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet). I think the
                    third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                    ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                    while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.


                    Conrad
                  • Sauer, Michael F.
                    ... Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for petit rose (a 2 person dance). Conrad
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 8 10:06 AM
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                      > I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
                      > throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
                      > the point. :)

                      Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for
                      petit rose (a 2 person dance).

                      Conrad
                    • Sauer, Michael F.
                      ... Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina, Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam, Perenell (sp?),
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 8 10:15 AM
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                        > Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                        > Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                        > Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                        > the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                        > everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
                        > could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

                        Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                        Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                        Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                        Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                        > I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                        > managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                        > there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                        > for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                        > here. :)

                        Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                        if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                        and like what they know.

                        Conrad
                      • Kirsten Garner
                        Hi all.. ... there ... I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;) ... That I know, can dance and
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 8 3:43 PM
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                          Hi all..

                          > > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get
                          there
                          > > this year! :)
                          >
                          > Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                          I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of
                          Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;)

                          > > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                          >
                          > That you know? Have music for?

                          That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                          15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)

                          It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)

                          Julian
                        • Kirsten Garner
                          Hi again... :) ... year :) Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don t know if I can afford Boston. :) ... like ... That s what I ve been
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 8 3:50 PM
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                            Hi again... :)

                            > Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last
                            year :)

                            Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don't know
                            if I can afford Boston. :)

                            > Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                            > if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they
                            like
                            > and like what they know.

                            That's what I've been doing. I landed in Atenveldt, went to a dance
                            practice that Friday night and ended up teaching two classes at the
                            Kingdom Dance Collegium (the next day - Saturday). It's been downhill
                            ever since. ;) I'm now baronial dance minister for the barony (and
                            it's a HUGE barony - scared the mess out of me when I first got
                            here). I run two dance practices a month and at events. The problem
                            is that there was already *some* dance out here (mostly OOP and some
                            ECD) which is what people want to do. There is heavy resistance to
                            Italians. So..I try to work around that as well as I can -
                            introducing easy Italians very very very slowly. There's also the
                            ever-present "Can we do X dance?". A good example is Contrapasso
                            Nuovo. To which the answer is inevitably "Which version? Caroso Il
                            Ballarino, Caroso Nobilita, Negri, Master dance laurel's version, or
                            some other odd creation?". No one knows, but when you try to
                            introduce the one you know, the response is, wait for it, "That's not
                            how we do it". It's kinda frustrating at times. So I'm open for
                            suggestions. :)

                            Julian
                          • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                            ... OOh, I m somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I d need a bit of review
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 8 4:28 PM
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                              >> > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                              >>
                              >> That you know? Have music for?
                              >
                              >That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                              >15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)
                              >
                              >It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)
                              >
                              >Julian

                              OOh, I'm somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the
                              mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I'd need a bit of review
                              before teaching, but not counting the Inns of Court stuff).

                              But then I'm only avoiding a bachelor's!

                              Katherine

                              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                              Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                              Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                              deanc@... Calontir
                              http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                              Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                            • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                              ... Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count? There are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn t want to
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 8 4:49 PM
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                                >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                                >> Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                                >> Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                                >> Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                                >> the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                                >> everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of -
                                >> could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)
                                >
                                >Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                                >Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                                >Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                                Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count?
                                There
                                are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn't want to
                                (sorry, getting catty for a moment, no one here in Calontir, thank goodness!)

                                So... People I really know: Conrad, Tsire, Daria (in Calontir), Bartolo (in
                                Atenvelt), Alina, Llewellyn, and the rest of the Cynnabar crew (in the
                                Midrealm), Theodorin, Anne, and (briefly) Melusine (in Drachenwald). Must
                                network more....

                                >
                                >Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                                New year for sure. Already budgeting for a plane ticket.

                                >
                                >> I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                                >> managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                                >> there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                                >> for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                                >> here. :)
                                >
                                >Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                                >if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                                >and like what they know.

                                Well, I've been blessed with very open dancers (undergrads at a very liberal
                                college for the most part), but my tactic has been a) to be openly
                                enthusiastic
                                about what I'm going to teach b) never force anything down their throats c)
                                always try to do a balance of new and old stuff (an easy repetoire dance like
                                Black Alman to cement things in their heads, maybe one italian, an
                                intermediate
                                ECD and Posten's or something fast and fun) and c) take things very slowly.

                                And unfortuantely from what I've seen, they haven't quite caught on yet.
                                People
                                may not run from the room when they hear the next dance is going to be Gelosia
                                or something like that, but they don't exactly jump for joy like I've
                                witnessed
                                over Hole in the Head (oops, Wall).

                                Of course I can't speak for what's going on down south.

                                Katheri

                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                deanc@... Calontir
                                http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                              • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                                ... Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*). I think the ... Oh, but that s the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah.... Katherine
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 8 4:51 PM
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                                  >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                                  >> >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                                  >> >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                                  >> >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                                  >>
                                  >> I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                                  >> dances that I wish
                                  >> would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                                  >> Italian dances that
                                  >> my
                                  >> (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                                  >> other being Petit
                                  >> Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet).

                                  Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*).

                                  I think the
                                  >third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                                  >ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                                  >while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.
                                  >

                                  Oh, but that's the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah....

                                  Katherine

                                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                  Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                  deanc@... Calontir
                                  http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                  Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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