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RE: [CalontirDance] Lilies Classes

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  • Sauer, Michael F.
    ... Yep :) ... My only request is that all the itialian dances in the ball proper (not necessarilly the request dances) be covered during the classes. ... Well
    Message 1 of 18 , May 2, 2000
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      > Quick question:
      >
      > is the Tuesday AM Intro Italian class me!? If so, great :)

      Yep :)

      > and Judith and I
      > should probably chat about not covering too much of the same material.

      My only request is that all the itialian dances in the ball proper
      (not necessarilly the request dances) be covered during the classes.

      > I'd also be happy to take the Monday or Wednesday PM slot if
      > I could divide it
      > into two one hour slots. I was thinking that it would be
      > really fun to do a
      > Saltarello class (Saltarello la Regina and Saltarello II with
      > maybe some talk
      > about the development of the Saltarello form into Italian
      > dance if I feel up
      > to
      > it), but I only have enough material for an hour.

      Well I'd be like that alot.

      On another note - do you think we could round up enough
      people (10-12) to do a Salterello II (BTW it actually
      has a name now though I don't remember it) at performing
      arts day?

      > That could
      > easily be paired
      > with either a quasi-Scottish/Irish (Posten's, Mairi's, and
      > Scotland the Brave)
      > or else a more focused intermediate ECD (like Alina's Hey's
      > are not for Horses
      > class which has been spreading aroud the Known World!).
      >
      > Katherine

      Both are possible, though I would prefer not to teach the
      scottish dances at official classes.

      Conrad
    • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
      [snip] ... Great, (Katherine enters planning mode) ... Ok, of the Italian on the play list I can do Petit Riens, Amoroso (can you send me a copy of the music
      Message 2 of 18 , May 2, 2000
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        [snip]

        >> is the Tuesday AM Intro Italian class me!? If so, great :)
        >
        >Yep :)

        Great, (Katherine enters planning mode)

        >
        >> and Judith and I
        >> should probably chat about not covering too much of the same material.
        >
        >My only request is that all the itialian dances in the ball proper
        >(not necessarilly the request dances) be covered during the classes.

        Ok, of the Italian on the play list I can do Petit Riens, Amoroso (can you
        send
        me a copy of the music you're sending out to musicians? There are at least
        two
        versions I know of), Gelosia, and Rosti Boli. I *cannot* teach Il Piantone or
        Ballo del Fiore. Of the four I can teach I will almost certainly be doing RB
        (because it's my favorite Italian dance), but of the other three any/all/or
        none
        would work for me.

        So... Judith, if you're on this list can you please contact me off list
        (deanc@...) so we can figure things out before Crown, if not, could
        someone (Conrad?) send me contact info?

        I was thinking that if you don't object horribly I might gear the Italian
        class
        towards being intermediate rather than introductory. By Intermediate I mean
        people who have reasonable knowlege of how to dance in the SCA (ie can do
        doubles and singles of some genre, have attended dance practices or classes in
        the past), preferably with a bit of Italian experience, not necessarily people
        who even know any Italian (without review). I just don't want to spend a lot
        of
        time getting people to be able to move with the music.

        At this point I'm thinking it would be interesting to cover some dances that
        aren't currently in the Calontir repetoire (at least not that I've seen).
        Tentatively I'd like to do between 4 and 6 dances depending on time and how
        quickly people learn: Rosti Boli and 1-2 other 15th c. balli, Dolche Amoroso
        Fiamma, Bizzaria d'Amore and/or one other 16th century (maybe Villanella?).
        Some of these I would classify as intro-intermediate, others as definately
        intermediate, another reason for not doing intro.
        >
        >> I'd also be happy to take the Monday or Wednesday PM slot if
        >> I could divide it
        >> into two one hour slots. I was thinking that it would be
        >> really fun to do a
        >> Saltarello class (Saltarello la Regina and Saltarello II with
        >> maybe some talk
        >> about the development of the Saltarello form into Italian
        >> dance if I feel up
        >> to
        >> it), but I only have enough material for an hour.
        >
        >Well I'd be like that alot.

        Great!!

        >
        >On another note - do you think we could round up enough
        >people (10-12) to do a Salterello II at performing
        >arts day?

        Yeah, I bet we could. Maybe we could arrange a practice for all those
        interested during the pick-up time because I think all the class-slots for
        dance
        are filled, (right, Tsire?) and then perform it. I'm sure we could scare up
        enough people since I've done it (successfully) with as few a 6 dancers and it
        works really well with only 8.
        >
        (BTW it actually
        >has a name now though I don't remember it)

        Prendente in Giro

        >> That could
        >> easily be paired
        >> with either a quasi-Scottish/Irish (Posten's, Mairi's, and
        >> Scotland the Brave)
        >> or else a more focused intermediate ECD (like Alina's Hey's
        >> are not for Horses
        >> class which has been spreading aroud the Known World!).
        >>
        >> Katherine
        >
        >Both are possible, though I would prefer not to teach the
        >scottish dances at official classes.


        Ok, how about Salterello class followed by Intermediate ECD with Heys
        (Whirligig, Grimstock, and Picking of Sticks [with Alina's permission, of
        course])?

        BTW, what is the space for dance at Lilies, and how tight is the spacing. Is
        there time for classes to go over by 15 minutes if necessary?


        Lot's of questions! Sorry to everyone for the list traffic.

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
        Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
        deanc@... Calontir
        http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
        Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      • Kirsten Garner
        Hi Conrad (et all..) All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there this year! :) ... and how ... Dolche Amoroso ... Villanella?). ...
        Message 3 of 18 , May 3, 2000
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          Hi Conrad (et all..)

          All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
          this year! :)

          > Tentatively I'd like to do between 4 and 6 dances depending on time
          and how
          > quickly people learn: Rosti Boli and 1-2 other 15th c. balli,
          Dolche Amoroso
          > Fiamma, Bizzaria d'Amore and/or one other 16th century (maybe
          Villanella?).
          > Some of these I would classify as intro-intermediate, others as
          definately
          > intermediate, another reason for not doing intro.

          Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...

          I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
          mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
          it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
          don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
          this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
          Italians. I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
          I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
          Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
          structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
          like "Carolingian Pavane"
          and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
          learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
          saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
          than that, it went really well. :) Oh, and another word of advice
          (from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
          Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
          and baronial dance practices. ;)

          As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
          how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
          or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
          the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

          I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
          here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
          of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
          difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

          Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
          shaping up like for the KWASS?

          Lady Julian ferch Rhys
          late of Shire of Standing Stones
          now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

          PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
        • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
          ... I couldn t agree more. It s one of my personal crusade dances that I wish would become an SCA standard. It s also one of only two Italian dances that
          Message 4 of 18 , May 3, 2000
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            >Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
            >
            >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
            >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
            >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)

            I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances that I wish
            would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian dances that
            my
            (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other being Petit
            Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


            I
            >don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
            >this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
            >Italians.

            Grrr... this is definately true in C d'E (right Tsire?) and even a bit here in
            NoMountain where we have unusually open folk. Does anyone know how this
            started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation (I must know so that I can set
            some
            large-fanged animals loose in their pavillion at Pennsic)

            I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
            >I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
            >Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
            >structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
            >like "Carolingian Pavane"
            >and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
            >learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
            >saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
            >than that, it went really well. :)

            Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to teach
            Italian
            by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff. It just somehow seems wrong
            in a couple of gut reaction sort of ways. Mostly I think it's because I
            didn't
            learn that way, but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
            but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive. If people are going to enjoy
            Italian dance it probably isn't going to be because it's like Rufty Tufty, but
            because they like it *despite* its not being Rufty Tufty. Just my two cents
            your millage may vary, and all the other usual disclaimers. I'll *definately*
            keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone who is
            having
            lots of problems understanding GET a dance.


            Oh, and another word of advice
            >(from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
            >Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
            >and baronial dance practices. ;)

            *laugh*. I'll keep that in mind.

            >
            >As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
            >how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
            >or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
            >the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

            Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I don't know
            yet. I picked up my repetoire in the Midrealm, from some friends of Mistress
            Rosina's, but their 15th c. rep is actually quite small. I'm hopeing to pick
            up
            some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

            >
            >I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
            >here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
            >of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
            >difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

            *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting people to
            dance
            SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of doom' (this
            is because the CD set I have has SLR repeated three times in a row getting
            progressively faster). Amazingly enough people not only didn't run away from
            that description, but they actually came to practice to see what the heck I
            was
            going on about!


            >Lady Julian ferch Rhys
            >late of Shire of Standing Stones
            >now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

            SO does that mean you're in Phoenix? I imagine you've already met my friend
            who
            is living in Tucson (ack, I can never remember how to spell the name of the
            group down there) Dave/Bartello(I think). If not, you should. If so, he'll
            dance SLR or Rosti Boli with you anytime, just do me a favor and say that
            Katherine from Calontir sent you and everything will be alright!

            Katherine
            (who appologizes for all the list-cluttering chitchat, but that's just

            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
            Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
            deanc@... Calontir
            http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
            Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          • Kirsten Garner
            Hi all. :) ... that I wish ... dances that ... being Petit ... I ve got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally throw on to confuse our
            Message 5 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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              Hi all. :)

              > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances
              that I wish
              > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian
              dances that
              > my
              > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other
              being Petit
              > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).

              I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
              throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
              the point. :)

              We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
              Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
              Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
              had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
              prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
              do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

              > Does anyone know how this
              > started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation

              I wish I knew. We do have some prominent people out here who are
              against them, but I guess that it may be because it's got a
              vocabulary that stretches beyond single, double, side, arm, set and
              turn. People seem to resist having to learn something "fur'n". (Yes,
              I'm originally from Arkansas :). Plus, out here, there's been a long
              tradition of completely OOP dances done. And those that are "period"
              (quotes because I'm including ECD here), have some very odd
              mutations. It makes things interesting when you come in and try to
              teach what you know only to have people come back at you with "that's
              wrong" or "that's not how we do it here". I just recently had someone
              call into question the handholds that I teach (i.e., low, not high).
              He said "That's how Master xxxx, our premier Laurel, says it should
              be done." I told him "Well, he's wrong" and went on to cite sources
              and show him illuminations to the contrary. But it does make things a
              little frustrating at times between that and the prevailing "Italians
              are incredibly hard, and only dance laurels can do them" attitude. :(

              > Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to
              teach
              > Italian
              > by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff.

              Out here, it's almost the only way to fly. :( Well, to get people to
              try it. After a while, I start slipping back into Italian, but most
              people seem to accept it by then.

              > but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
              > but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.

              Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
              want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"


              > I'll *definately*
              > keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone
              who is
              > having
              > lots of problems understanding GET a dance.

              This is one of the reasons I go to a lot of beginner classes when I
              travel. I may know all the dances, but you never know when someone
              else might have a way cool way of explaining things. :) And God
              knows, I'm still learning to teach after all these years. ;)

              > Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
              don't know
              > yet.

              Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
              try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
              flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

              > I'm hopeing to pick
              > up
              > some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

              Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
              reconstructions and steps! :)

              > *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
              people to
              > dance
              > SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
              doom'

              OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

              > I imagine you've already met my friend
              > who
              > is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).

              Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
              out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

              Julian
            • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
              Greetings again. ... Oooh... feel like shareing? I m curious now (having helped choreograph a six person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people
              Message 6 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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                Greetings again.

                >I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
                >throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
                >the point. :)

                Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now (having helped choreograph a six
                person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people for the regular
                dance!)

                >
                >We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
                >Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
                >Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
                >had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
                >prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
                >do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

                So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think more people
                would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very flirtatious and
                goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things like that
                quite
                popular indeed!


                >> but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
                >> but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.
                >
                >Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
                >want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"

                Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more often than not
                rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly sounding) I
                just
                clip them off. Spezz and Trab rather than spezzati and trabuchetti come to
                mind
                immediately. Things with silly little names are less intimidating, I guess :)


                >> Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
                >don't know
                >> yet.
                >
                >Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
                >try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
                >flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

                Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we don't have
                homework and can have two hour dance practices.

                >
                >> I'm hopeing to pick
                >> up
                >> some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!
                >
                >Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
                >reconstructions and steps! :)

                Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously, though,
                I'd
                be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big blue book
                of
                15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started poking
                through it.

                >
                >> *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
                >people to
                >> dance
                >> SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
                >doom'
                >
                >OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

                Ok, but I'm not sure whether I really want the blame/credit for that if it
                catches on *laugh*.

                >
                >> I imagine you've already met my friend
                >> who
                >> is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).
                >
                >Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
                >out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

                *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how many steps
                it
                takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is connected to
                every other one.

                Katherine

                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                deanc@... Calontir
                http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              • Kirsten Garner
                Hi! :) ... If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called A la Ferrarese which has that version on it. It s also got music you can use for
                Message 7 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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                  Hi! :)
                  >> two-person version of Petit Riens
                  > Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now

                  If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called "A la
                  Ferrarese" which has that version on it. It's also got music you can
                  use for Patience, Cupido and Dampnes. :)

                  > So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think
                  more people
                  > would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very
                  flirtatious and
                  > goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things
                  like that
                  > quite
                  > popular indeed!

                  I've been working on stressing the "flirtation" thing out here.
                  Sometimes it seems like people only think they can flirt in Hole in
                  the Wall and Mannschaft. Amoroso at least has been going some way
                  towards remedying that. I guess they think that on the whole Italians
                  are too difficult to think about flirting in. Which, in a way, I can
                  understand since I used to be scared of them too. But, I guess it
                  just takes time and patience. :)

                  > Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more
                  often than not
                  > rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly
                  sounding) I
                  > just
                  > clip them off.

                  Oh yeah - names that don't have ready English translations just stay
                  in Italian. :) I can't see myself calling for a "broken sequence"
                  when I can just say "spezzato". :) Although I have been known to
                  call "spezzati" "scoochy steps" just to get my point across. :)
                  However, that's only for teaching! After the first inital run-
                  throughs, it's back to Italian! :)

                  >> Mercantia
                  > Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we
                  don't have
                  > homework and can have two hour dance practices.

                  It's not overly difficult once you get the idea behind it. What's
                  really fun is to work it and Sobria up to be performed together. :)
                  Marketplace (where the lady dances with everyone - trying them out,
                  as it were) and Sobriety (where she only dances with her partner and
                  everyone else tries to pick her up). :) They look really good with a
                  lot of facial expression and drama. :) I think the dance part is
                  almost secondary. :)

                  > Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously,
                  though,
                  > I'd
                  > be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big
                  blue book
                  > of
                  > 15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started
                  poking
                  > through it.

                  Smith? Great resource! :) I've reconstructed so much stuff out of
                  that book! :) Not to mention that the first volume is excellent for
                  theory. :) (Volume II is back in print, if you weren't aware of that
                  yet. :)

                  Rosina and I differ on things like riprese, pive and contrepassi. Oh,
                  and salterelli. :) We also have some serious differences on
                  reconstruction in some of the dances. She does some things that seem
                  to me to be really wierd. But that's kinda the thing about dance
                  reconstruction - what I see in the source and work out in performance
                  may not be what she sees or you see or anyone else sees. The only
                  thing we can do is try to keep it intact with the sources themselves.
                  However, she and I do have some absolutely reverse ways of looking at
                  things sometimes. :)

                  > *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how
                  many steps
                  > it
                  > takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is
                  connected to
                  > every other one.

                  Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                  Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                  Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                  the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                  everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
                  could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

                  I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                  managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                  there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                  for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                  here. :)

                  Julian
                • Sauer, Michael F.
                  ... Well, better late than never :) ... Hrumph! I came out to your war ;) ... I wouldn t say thare is specific resistance to any dance form. This is not
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                    > Hi Conrad (et all..)

                    Well, better late than never :)


                    > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
                    > this year! :)

                    Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                    > Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
                    >
                    > I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                    > mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                    > it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
                    > don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
                    > this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
                    > Italians.

                    I wouldn't say thare is specific resistance to any dance form.
                    This is not necessarilly a good thing, becaue its mostly that
                    the (relatively few) actually interested in dance will try most
                    anything. But hte numbers are starting to grow. Of the 9 weekends
                    in april and may, dancing has been on the schedule of at least
                    5 events!


                    > Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
                    > shaping up like for the KWASS?

                    stay tuned :)

                    >
                    > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)

                    That you know? Have music for?
                    I have no idea.

                    Conrad
                  • Sauer, Michael F.
                    ... I agree too, but I don t know the last one (yet). I think the third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the ECD mindset cause it sorta
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                      > >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                      > >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                      > >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                      >
                      > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                      > dances that I wish
                      > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                      > Italian dances that
                      > my
                      > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                      > other being Petit
                      > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


                      I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet). I think the
                      third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                      ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                      while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.


                      Conrad
                    • Sauer, Michael F.
                      ... Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for petit rose (a 2 person dance). Conrad
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                        > I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
                        > throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
                        > the point. :)

                        Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for
                        petit rose (a 2 person dance).

                        Conrad
                      • Sauer, Michael F.
                        ... Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina, Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam, Perenell (sp?),
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                          > Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                          > Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                          > Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                          > the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                          > everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
                          > could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

                          Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                          Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                          Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                          Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                          > I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                          > managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                          > there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                          > for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                          > here. :)

                          Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                          if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                          and like what they know.

                          Conrad
                        • Kirsten Garner
                          Hi all.. ... there ... I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;) ... That I know, can dance and
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                            Hi all..

                            > > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get
                            there
                            > > this year! :)
                            >
                            > Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                            I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of
                            Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;)

                            > > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                            >
                            > That you know? Have music for?

                            That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                            15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)

                            It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)

                            Julian
                          • Kirsten Garner
                            Hi again... :) ... year :) Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don t know if I can afford Boston. :) ... like ... That s what I ve been
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                              Hi again... :)

                              > Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last
                              year :)

                              Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don't know
                              if I can afford Boston. :)

                              > Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                              > if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they
                              like
                              > and like what they know.

                              That's what I've been doing. I landed in Atenveldt, went to a dance
                              practice that Friday night and ended up teaching two classes at the
                              Kingdom Dance Collegium (the next day - Saturday). It's been downhill
                              ever since. ;) I'm now baronial dance minister for the barony (and
                              it's a HUGE barony - scared the mess out of me when I first got
                              here). I run two dance practices a month and at events. The problem
                              is that there was already *some* dance out here (mostly OOP and some
                              ECD) which is what people want to do. There is heavy resistance to
                              Italians. So..I try to work around that as well as I can -
                              introducing easy Italians very very very slowly. There's also the
                              ever-present "Can we do X dance?". A good example is Contrapasso
                              Nuovo. To which the answer is inevitably "Which version? Caroso Il
                              Ballarino, Caroso Nobilita, Negri, Master dance laurel's version, or
                              some other odd creation?". No one knows, but when you try to
                              introduce the one you know, the response is, wait for it, "That's not
                              how we do it". It's kinda frustrating at times. So I'm open for
                              suggestions. :)

                              Julian
                            • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                              ... OOh, I m somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I d need a bit of review
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                >> > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                                >>
                                >> That you know? Have music for?
                                >
                                >That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                                >15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)
                                >
                                >It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)
                                >
                                >Julian

                                OOh, I'm somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the
                                mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I'd need a bit of review
                                before teaching, but not counting the Inns of Court stuff).

                                But then I'm only avoiding a bachelor's!

                                Katherine

                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                deanc@... Calontir
                                http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                              • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                                ... Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count? There are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn t want to
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                  >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                                  >> Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                                  >> Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                                  >> Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                                  >> the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                                  >> everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of -
                                  >> could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)
                                  >
                                  >Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                                  >Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                                  >Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                                  Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count?
                                  There
                                  are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn't want to
                                  (sorry, getting catty for a moment, no one here in Calontir, thank goodness!)

                                  So... People I really know: Conrad, Tsire, Daria (in Calontir), Bartolo (in
                                  Atenvelt), Alina, Llewellyn, and the rest of the Cynnabar crew (in the
                                  Midrealm), Theodorin, Anne, and (briefly) Melusine (in Drachenwald). Must
                                  network more....

                                  >
                                  >Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                                  New year for sure. Already budgeting for a plane ticket.

                                  >
                                  >> I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                                  >> managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                                  >> there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                                  >> for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                                  >> here. :)
                                  >
                                  >Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                                  >if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                                  >and like what they know.

                                  Well, I've been blessed with very open dancers (undergrads at a very liberal
                                  college for the most part), but my tactic has been a) to be openly
                                  enthusiastic
                                  about what I'm going to teach b) never force anything down their throats c)
                                  always try to do a balance of new and old stuff (an easy repetoire dance like
                                  Black Alman to cement things in their heads, maybe one italian, an
                                  intermediate
                                  ECD and Posten's or something fast and fun) and c) take things very slowly.

                                  And unfortuantely from what I've seen, they haven't quite caught on yet.
                                  People
                                  may not run from the room when they hear the next dance is going to be Gelosia
                                  or something like that, but they don't exactly jump for joy like I've
                                  witnessed
                                  over Hole in the Head (oops, Wall).

                                  Of course I can't speak for what's going on down south.

                                  Katheri

                                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                  Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                  deanc@... Calontir
                                  http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                  Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                                  ... Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*). I think the ... Oh, but that s the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah.... Katherine
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                    >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                                    >> >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                                    >> >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                                    >> >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                                    >>
                                    >> I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                                    >> dances that I wish
                                    >> would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                                    >> Italian dances that
                                    >> my
                                    >> (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                                    >> other being Petit
                                    >> Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet).

                                    Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*).

                                    I think the
                                    >third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                                    >ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                                    >while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.
                                    >

                                    Oh, but that's the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah....

                                    Katherine

                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                    Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                    Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                    deanc@... Calontir
                                    http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                    Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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