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RE: [CalontirDance] Lilies Classes

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  • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
    Quick question: is the Tuesday AM Intro Italian class me!? If so, great :) and Judith and I should probably chat about not covering too much of the same
    Message 1 of 18 , May 1, 2000
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      Quick question:

      is the Tuesday AM Intro Italian class me!? If so, great :) and Judith and I
      should probably chat about not covering too much of the same material.

      I'd also be happy to take the Monday or Wednesday PM slot if I could divide it
      into two one hour slots. I was thinking that it would be really fun to do a
      Saltarello class (Saltarello la Regina and Saltarello II with maybe some talk
      about the development of the Saltarello form into Italian dance if I feel up
      to
      it), but I only have enough material for an hour. That could easily be paired
      with either a quasi-Scottish/Irish (Posten's, Mairi's, and Scotland the Brave)
      or else a more focused intermediate ECD (like Alina's Hey's are not for Horses
      class which has been spreading aroud the Known World!).

      Katherine












      >Lilies Dance CLass Schedule
      >(Needs to be finalized before Crown to make the RUSH book)
      >
      >
      >
      >Class Times
      >Mon - Thur 10-12 and 1-3
      >
      >Day/Time Class Teacher
      >Monday
      >AM Intro to Renn. Dance Conrad
      >PM Bransles and Pavanes?
      >
      >Tues
      >AM Introductory Itialian Katherine
      >PM Easy ECD Tsire
      >
      >Wed
      >AM Intermediate ECD Tsire
      >PM ??? ???
      >
      >Thurs
      >AM Survey of Itialian Dance Judith
      >PM Review for Ball Conrad et al
      >
      >
      >Final class nane is up to the instructor.
      >Anyone who want to be around for the review class is welcome.
      >Exact slots on Tues and Wed are somewhat tentative.
      >I absolutely need someone for the Monday PM class, I've got a meeting :(
      >
      >Any ideas for the wed after noon class?
      >
      >A couple of ones I had
      >
      >Dancing to live music
      >Dance teachers class
      >

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
      Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
      deanc@... Calontir
      http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
      Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    • Sauer, Michael F.
      ... Yep :) ... My only request is that all the itialian dances in the ball proper (not necessarilly the request dances) be covered during the classes. ... Well
      Message 2 of 18 , May 2, 2000
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        > Quick question:
        >
        > is the Tuesday AM Intro Italian class me!? If so, great :)

        Yep :)

        > and Judith and I
        > should probably chat about not covering too much of the same material.

        My only request is that all the itialian dances in the ball proper
        (not necessarilly the request dances) be covered during the classes.

        > I'd also be happy to take the Monday or Wednesday PM slot if
        > I could divide it
        > into two one hour slots. I was thinking that it would be
        > really fun to do a
        > Saltarello class (Saltarello la Regina and Saltarello II with
        > maybe some talk
        > about the development of the Saltarello form into Italian
        > dance if I feel up
        > to
        > it), but I only have enough material for an hour.

        Well I'd be like that alot.

        On another note - do you think we could round up enough
        people (10-12) to do a Salterello II (BTW it actually
        has a name now though I don't remember it) at performing
        arts day?

        > That could
        > easily be paired
        > with either a quasi-Scottish/Irish (Posten's, Mairi's, and
        > Scotland the Brave)
        > or else a more focused intermediate ECD (like Alina's Hey's
        > are not for Horses
        > class which has been spreading aroud the Known World!).
        >
        > Katherine

        Both are possible, though I would prefer not to teach the
        scottish dances at official classes.

        Conrad
      • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
        [snip] ... Great, (Katherine enters planning mode) ... Ok, of the Italian on the play list I can do Petit Riens, Amoroso (can you send me a copy of the music
        Message 3 of 18 , May 2, 2000
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          [snip]

          >> is the Tuesday AM Intro Italian class me!? If so, great :)
          >
          >Yep :)

          Great, (Katherine enters planning mode)

          >
          >> and Judith and I
          >> should probably chat about not covering too much of the same material.
          >
          >My only request is that all the itialian dances in the ball proper
          >(not necessarilly the request dances) be covered during the classes.

          Ok, of the Italian on the play list I can do Petit Riens, Amoroso (can you
          send
          me a copy of the music you're sending out to musicians? There are at least
          two
          versions I know of), Gelosia, and Rosti Boli. I *cannot* teach Il Piantone or
          Ballo del Fiore. Of the four I can teach I will almost certainly be doing RB
          (because it's my favorite Italian dance), but of the other three any/all/or
          none
          would work for me.

          So... Judith, if you're on this list can you please contact me off list
          (deanc@...) so we can figure things out before Crown, if not, could
          someone (Conrad?) send me contact info?

          I was thinking that if you don't object horribly I might gear the Italian
          class
          towards being intermediate rather than introductory. By Intermediate I mean
          people who have reasonable knowlege of how to dance in the SCA (ie can do
          doubles and singles of some genre, have attended dance practices or classes in
          the past), preferably with a bit of Italian experience, not necessarily people
          who even know any Italian (without review). I just don't want to spend a lot
          of
          time getting people to be able to move with the music.

          At this point I'm thinking it would be interesting to cover some dances that
          aren't currently in the Calontir repetoire (at least not that I've seen).
          Tentatively I'd like to do between 4 and 6 dances depending on time and how
          quickly people learn: Rosti Boli and 1-2 other 15th c. balli, Dolche Amoroso
          Fiamma, Bizzaria d'Amore and/or one other 16th century (maybe Villanella?).
          Some of these I would classify as intro-intermediate, others as definately
          intermediate, another reason for not doing intro.
          >
          >> I'd also be happy to take the Monday or Wednesday PM slot if
          >> I could divide it
          >> into two one hour slots. I was thinking that it would be
          >> really fun to do a
          >> Saltarello class (Saltarello la Regina and Saltarello II with
          >> maybe some talk
          >> about the development of the Saltarello form into Italian
          >> dance if I feel up
          >> to
          >> it), but I only have enough material for an hour.
          >
          >Well I'd be like that alot.

          Great!!

          >
          >On another note - do you think we could round up enough
          >people (10-12) to do a Salterello II at performing
          >arts day?

          Yeah, I bet we could. Maybe we could arrange a practice for all those
          interested during the pick-up time because I think all the class-slots for
          dance
          are filled, (right, Tsire?) and then perform it. I'm sure we could scare up
          enough people since I've done it (successfully) with as few a 6 dancers and it
          works really well with only 8.
          >
          (BTW it actually
          >has a name now though I don't remember it)

          Prendente in Giro

          >> That could
          >> easily be paired
          >> with either a quasi-Scottish/Irish (Posten's, Mairi's, and
          >> Scotland the Brave)
          >> or else a more focused intermediate ECD (like Alina's Hey's
          >> are not for Horses
          >> class which has been spreading aroud the Known World!).
          >>
          >> Katherine
          >
          >Both are possible, though I would prefer not to teach the
          >scottish dances at official classes.


          Ok, how about Salterello class followed by Intermediate ECD with Heys
          (Whirligig, Grimstock, and Picking of Sticks [with Alina's permission, of
          course])?

          BTW, what is the space for dance at Lilies, and how tight is the spacing. Is
          there time for classes to go over by 15 minutes if necessary?


          Lot's of questions! Sorry to everyone for the list traffic.

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
          Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
          deanc@... Calontir
          http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
          Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        • Kirsten Garner
          Hi Conrad (et all..) All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there this year! :) ... and how ... Dolche Amoroso ... Villanella?). ...
          Message 4 of 18 , May 3, 2000
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            Hi Conrad (et all..)

            All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
            this year! :)

            > Tentatively I'd like to do between 4 and 6 dances depending on time
            and how
            > quickly people learn: Rosti Boli and 1-2 other 15th c. balli,
            Dolche Amoroso
            > Fiamma, Bizzaria d'Amore and/or one other 16th century (maybe
            Villanella?).
            > Some of these I would classify as intro-intermediate, others as
            definately
            > intermediate, another reason for not doing intro.

            Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...

            I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
            mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
            it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
            don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
            this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
            Italians. I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
            I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
            Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
            structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
            like "Carolingian Pavane"
            and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
            learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
            saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
            than that, it went really well. :) Oh, and another word of advice
            (from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
            Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
            and baronial dance practices. ;)

            As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
            how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
            or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
            the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

            I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
            here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
            of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
            difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

            Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
            shaping up like for the KWASS?

            Lady Julian ferch Rhys
            late of Shire of Standing Stones
            now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

            PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
          • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
            ... I couldn t agree more. It s one of my personal crusade dances that I wish would become an SCA standard. It s also one of only two Italian dances that
            Message 5 of 18 , May 3, 2000
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              >Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
              >
              >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
              >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
              >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)

              I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances that I wish
              would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian dances that
              my
              (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other being Petit
              Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


              I
              >don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
              >this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
              >Italians.

              Grrr... this is definately true in C d'E (right Tsire?) and even a bit here in
              NoMountain where we have unusually open folk. Does anyone know how this
              started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation (I must know so that I can set
              some
              large-fanged animals loose in their pavillion at Pennsic)

              I have found though that Villanella goes over really well.
              >I taught it to complete dance beginners at our last Kingdom Dance and
              >Rapier Collegium. I found that if you point out that ssd ssd
              >structure in the second thru fourth verses as being just
              >like "Carolingian Pavane"
              >and the continenze, 2 riprese, riverenza as a "chorus", it sticks in
              >learners' heads better. The only problem we had was with the
              >saltarello circle-countercircle maneuveur in the last verse. Other
              >than that, it went really well. :)

              Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to teach
              Italian
              by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff. It just somehow seems wrong
              in a couple of gut reaction sort of ways. Mostly I think it's because I
              didn't
              learn that way, but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
              but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive. If people are going to enjoy
              Italian dance it probably isn't going to be because it's like Rufty Tufty, but
              because they like it *despite* its not being Rufty Tufty. Just my two cents
              your millage may vary, and all the other usual disclaimers. I'll *definately*
              keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone who is
              having
              lots of problems understanding GET a dance.


              Oh, and another word of advice
              >(from the experience of our Kingdom danceminister) - never describe
              >Bizzaria as "straightforward". That word is now banned at all kingdom
              >and baronial dance practices. ;)

              *laugh*. I'll keep that in mind.

              >
              >As for other 15th century, I'm not sure what you're thinking yet, but
              >how about Leoncello, Pellegrina (basse danse type), Anello, Verceppe
              >or Gratioso? (I don't have my little black book o' dance with me at
              >the moment or I could give you a better list. :)

              Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I don't know
              yet. I picked up my repetoire in the Midrealm, from some friends of Mistress
              Rosina's, but their 15th c. rep is actually quite small. I'm hopeing to pick
              up
              some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

              >
              >I kinda miss Saltarello (La Regina) - I'm trying to introduce it out
              >here. :) But, you know, it's one of those *gasp* Italian names! Which
              >of course, as we all know, instantly makes it 200 times more
              >difficult than Heart's Ease. ;)

              *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting people to
              dance
              SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of doom' (this
              is because the CD set I have has SLR repeated three times in a row getting
              progressively faster). Amazingly enough people not only didn't run away from
              that description, but they actually came to practice to see what the heck I
              was
              going on about!


              >Lady Julian ferch Rhys
              >late of Shire of Standing Stones
              >now dance minister for Barony of Atenveldt, Atenveldt

              SO does that mean you're in Phoenix? I imagine you've already met my friend
              who
              is living in Tucson (ack, I can never remember how to spell the name of the
              group down there) Dave/Bartello(I think). If not, you should. If so, he'll
              dance SLR or Rosti Boli with you anytime, just do me a favor and say that
              Katherine from Calontir sent you and everything will be alright!

              Katherine
              (who appologizes for all the list-cluttering chitchat, but that's just

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
              Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
              Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
              deanc@... Calontir
              http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
              Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            • Kirsten Garner
              Hi all. :) ... that I wish ... dances that ... being Petit ... I ve got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally throw on to confuse our
              Message 6 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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                Hi all. :)

                > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade' dances
                that I wish
                > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two Italian
                dances that
                > my
                > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the other
                being Petit
                > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).

                I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
                throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
                the point. :)

                We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
                Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
                Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
                had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
                prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
                do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

                > Does anyone know how this
                > started? Who gave Italian a bad reputation

                I wish I knew. We do have some prominent people out here who are
                against them, but I guess that it may be because it's got a
                vocabulary that stretches beyond single, double, side, arm, set and
                turn. People seem to resist having to learn something "fur'n". (Yes,
                I'm originally from Arkansas :). Plus, out here, there's been a long
                tradition of completely OOP dances done. And those that are "period"
                (quotes because I'm including ECD here), have some very odd
                mutations. It makes things interesting when you come in and try to
                teach what you know only to have people come back at you with "that's
                wrong" or "that's not how we do it here". I just recently had someone
                call into question the handholds that I teach (i.e., low, not high).
                He said "That's how Master xxxx, our premier Laurel, says it should
                be done." I told him "Well, he's wrong" and went on to cite sources
                and show him illuminations to the contrary. But it does make things a
                little frustrating at times between that and the prevailing "Italians
                are incredibly hard, and only dance laurels can do them" attitude. :(

                > Hmmm... I'll keep this in mind, although I generally don't try to
                teach
                > Italian
                > by analogy with ECD or other more familiar stuff.

                Out here, it's almost the only way to fly. :( Well, to get people to
                try it. After a while, I start slipping back into Italian, but most
                people seem to accept it by then.

                > but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
                > but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.

                Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
                want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"


                > I'll *definately*
                > keep those hints in mind as one never knows what will help someone
                who is
                > having
                > lots of problems understanding GET a dance.

                This is one of the reasons I go to a lot of beginner classes when I
                travel. I may know all the dances, but you never know when someone
                else might have a way cool way of explaining things. :) And God
                knows, I'm still learning to teach after all these years. ;)

                > Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
                don't know
                > yet.

                Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
                try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
                flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

                > I'm hopeing to pick
                > up
                > some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!

                Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
                reconstructions and steps! :)

                > *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
                people to
                > dance
                > SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
                doom'

                OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

                > I imagine you've already met my friend
                > who
                > is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).

                Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
                out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

                Julian
              • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                Greetings again. ... Oooh... feel like shareing? I m curious now (having helped choreograph a six person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people
                Message 7 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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                  Greetings again.

                  >I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
                  >throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
                  >the point. :)

                  Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now (having helped choreograph a six
                  person version of Rufty Tufty when we had too many people for the regular
                  dance!)

                  >
                  >We're having some good success with Amoroso surprisingly. Master
                  >Niccolo of Artemisia came down and taught it to some beginners at the
                  >Kingdom Dance and Rapier Collegium and it's really caught on. I've
                  >had lots of requests for it lately. And in a kingdom where the
                  >prevailing dance request is "Anything except Italian" and/or "Can we
                  >do Hole in the Wall?", that's pretty cheering. :)

                  So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think more people
                  would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very flirtatious and
                  goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things like that
                  quite
                  popular indeed!


                  >> but also trying to fit Italian into molds where it can almost,
                  >> but not quite, fit, seems counterproductive.
                  >
                  >Out here it's a case of "I don't know what a doppio is, and I don't
                  >want to know. Oh? A *double*? OH! I can do that!"

                  Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more often than not
                  rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly sounding) I
                  just
                  clip them off. Spezz and Trab rather than spezzati and trabuchetti come to
                  mind
                  immediately. Things with silly little names are less intimidating, I guess :)


                  >> Could do Leoncello or Anello, Verceppe, Pellegrina, and Gratioso I
                  >don't know
                  >> yet.
                  >
                  >Another thing I thought of - if you've got a group who are willing to
                  >try new and different things, you might could try Mercantia. Good
                  >flirting potential and interesting theatrics. :)

                  Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we don't have
                  homework and can have two hour dance practices.

                  >
                  >> I'm hopeing to pick
                  >> up
                  >> some more at Pennsic directly from Rosina!
                  >
                  >Rosina and I have some sometimes quite varying viewpoints on
                  >reconstructions and steps! :)

                  Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously, though,
                  I'd
                  be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big blue book
                  of
                  15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started poking
                  through it.

                  >
                  >> *laugh*. Ok, appropriate time to tell my technique for getting
                  >people to
                  >> dance
                  >> SLR. I refer to it constantly as the 'kamikaze bunny hop dance of
                  >doom'
                  >
                  >OK - now *that* I'm definitely going to have to remember! :)

                  Ok, but I'm not sure whether I really want the blame/credit for that if it
                  catches on *laugh*.

                  >
                  >> I imagine you've already met my friend
                  >> who
                  >> is living in Tucson Dave/Bartello(I think).
                  >
                  >Yep - he came to our Dance Collegium last year before he ever moved
                  >out here. :) We love him out here!! I'll tell him we chatted. :) Cool!

                  *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how many steps
                  it
                  takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is connected to
                  every other one.

                  Katherine

                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                  Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                  Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                  deanc@... Calontir
                  http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                  Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                • Kirsten Garner
                  Hi! :) ... If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called A la Ferrarese which has that version on it. It s also got music you can use for
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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                    Hi! :)
                    >> two-person version of Petit Riens
                    > Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now

                    If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called "A la
                    Ferrarese" which has that version on it. It's also got music you can
                    use for Patience, Cupido and Dampnes. :)

                    > So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think
                    more people
                    > would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very
                    flirtatious and
                    > goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things
                    like that
                    > quite
                    > popular indeed!

                    I've been working on stressing the "flirtation" thing out here.
                    Sometimes it seems like people only think they can flirt in Hole in
                    the Wall and Mannschaft. Amoroso at least has been going some way
                    towards remedying that. I guess they think that on the whole Italians
                    are too difficult to think about flirting in. Which, in a way, I can
                    understand since I used to be scared of them too. But, I guess it
                    just takes time and patience. :)

                    > Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more
                    often than not
                    > rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly
                    sounding) I
                    > just
                    > clip them off.

                    Oh yeah - names that don't have ready English translations just stay
                    in Italian. :) I can't see myself calling for a "broken sequence"
                    when I can just say "spezzato". :) Although I have been known to
                    call "spezzati" "scoochy steps" just to get my point across. :)
                    However, that's only for teaching! After the first inital run-
                    throughs, it's back to Italian! :)

                    >> Mercantia
                    > Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we
                    don't have
                    > homework and can have two hour dance practices.

                    It's not overly difficult once you get the idea behind it. What's
                    really fun is to work it and Sobria up to be performed together. :)
                    Marketplace (where the lady dances with everyone - trying them out,
                    as it were) and Sobriety (where she only dances with her partner and
                    everyone else tries to pick her up). :) They look really good with a
                    lot of facial expression and drama. :) I think the dance part is
                    almost secondary. :)

                    > Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously,
                    though,
                    > I'd
                    > be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big
                    blue book
                    > of
                    > 15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started
                    poking
                    > through it.

                    Smith? Great resource! :) I've reconstructed so much stuff out of
                    that book! :) Not to mention that the first volume is excellent for
                    theory. :) (Volume II is back in print, if you weren't aware of that
                    yet. :)

                    Rosina and I differ on things like riprese, pive and contrepassi. Oh,
                    and salterelli. :) We also have some serious differences on
                    reconstruction in some of the dances. She does some things that seem
                    to me to be really wierd. But that's kinda the thing about dance
                    reconstruction - what I see in the source and work out in performance
                    may not be what she sees or you see or anyone else sees. The only
                    thing we can do is try to keep it intact with the sources themselves.
                    However, she and I do have some absolutely reverse ways of looking at
                    things sometimes. :)

                    > *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how
                    many steps
                    > it
                    > takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is
                    connected to
                    > every other one.

                    Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                    Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                    Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                    the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                    everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
                    could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

                    I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                    managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                    there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                    for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                    here. :)

                    Julian
                  • Sauer, Michael F.
                    ... Well, better late than never :) ... Hrumph! I came out to your war ;) ... I wouldn t say thare is specific resistance to any dance form. This is not
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                      > Hi Conrad (et all..)

                      Well, better late than never :)


                      > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
                      > this year! :)

                      Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                      > Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
                      >
                      > I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                      > mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                      > it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
                      > don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
                      > this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
                      > Italians.

                      I wouldn't say thare is specific resistance to any dance form.
                      This is not necessarilly a good thing, becaue its mostly that
                      the (relatively few) actually interested in dance will try most
                      anything. But hte numbers are starting to grow. Of the 9 weekends
                      in april and may, dancing has been on the schedule of at least
                      5 events!


                      > Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
                      > shaping up like for the KWASS?

                      stay tuned :)

                      >
                      > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)

                      That you know? Have music for?
                      I have no idea.

                      Conrad
                    • Sauer, Michael F.
                      ... I agree too, but I don t know the last one (yet). I think the third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the ECD mindset cause it sorta
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                        > >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                        > >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                        > >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                        >
                        > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                        > dances that I wish
                        > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                        > Italian dances that
                        > my
                        > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                        > other being Petit
                        > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


                        I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet). I think the
                        third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                        ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                        while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.


                        Conrad
                      • Sauer, Michael F.
                        ... Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for petit rose (a 2 person dance). Conrad
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                          > I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
                          > throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
                          > the point. :)

                          Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for
                          petit rose (a 2 person dance).

                          Conrad
                        • Sauer, Michael F.
                          ... Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina, Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam, Perenell (sp?),
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                            > Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                            > Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                            > Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                            > the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                            > everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
                            > could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

                            Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                            Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                            Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                            Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                            > I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                            > managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                            > there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                            > for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                            > here. :)

                            Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                            if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                            and like what they know.

                            Conrad
                          • Kirsten Garner
                            Hi all.. ... there ... I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;) ... That I know, can dance and
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                              Hi all..

                              > > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get
                              there
                              > > this year! :)
                              >
                              > Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                              I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of
                              Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;)

                              > > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                              >
                              > That you know? Have music for?

                              That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                              15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)

                              It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)

                              Julian
                            • Kirsten Garner
                              Hi again... :) ... year :) Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don t know if I can afford Boston. :) ... like ... That s what I ve been
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                Hi again... :)

                                > Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last
                                year :)

                                Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don't know
                                if I can afford Boston. :)

                                > Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                                > if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they
                                like
                                > and like what they know.

                                That's what I've been doing. I landed in Atenveldt, went to a dance
                                practice that Friday night and ended up teaching two classes at the
                                Kingdom Dance Collegium (the next day - Saturday). It's been downhill
                                ever since. ;) I'm now baronial dance minister for the barony (and
                                it's a HUGE barony - scared the mess out of me when I first got
                                here). I run two dance practices a month and at events. The problem
                                is that there was already *some* dance out here (mostly OOP and some
                                ECD) which is what people want to do. There is heavy resistance to
                                Italians. So..I try to work around that as well as I can -
                                introducing easy Italians very very very slowly. There's also the
                                ever-present "Can we do X dance?". A good example is Contrapasso
                                Nuovo. To which the answer is inevitably "Which version? Caroso Il
                                Ballarino, Caroso Nobilita, Negri, Master dance laurel's version, or
                                some other odd creation?". No one knows, but when you try to
                                introduce the one you know, the response is, wait for it, "That's not
                                how we do it". It's kinda frustrating at times. So I'm open for
                                suggestions. :)

                                Julian
                              • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                                ... OOh, I m somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I d need a bit of review
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                  >> > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                                  >>
                                  >> That you know? Have music for?
                                  >
                                  >That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                                  >15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)
                                  >
                                  >It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)
                                  >
                                  >Julian

                                  OOh, I'm somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the
                                  mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I'd need a bit of review
                                  before teaching, but not counting the Inns of Court stuff).

                                  But then I'm only avoiding a bachelor's!

                                  Katherine

                                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                  Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                  deanc@... Calontir
                                  http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                  Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                                  ... Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count? There are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn t want to
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                    >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                                    >> Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                                    >> Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                                    >> Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                                    >> the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                                    >> everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of -
                                    >> could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)
                                    >
                                    >Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                                    >Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                                    >Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                                    Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count?
                                    There
                                    are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn't want to
                                    (sorry, getting catty for a moment, no one here in Calontir, thank goodness!)

                                    So... People I really know: Conrad, Tsire, Daria (in Calontir), Bartolo (in
                                    Atenvelt), Alina, Llewellyn, and the rest of the Cynnabar crew (in the
                                    Midrealm), Theodorin, Anne, and (briefly) Melusine (in Drachenwald). Must
                                    network more....

                                    >
                                    >Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                                    New year for sure. Already budgeting for a plane ticket.

                                    >
                                    >> I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                                    >> managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                                    >> there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                                    >> for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                                    >> here. :)
                                    >
                                    >Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                                    >if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                                    >and like what they know.

                                    Well, I've been blessed with very open dancers (undergrads at a very liberal
                                    college for the most part), but my tactic has been a) to be openly
                                    enthusiastic
                                    about what I'm going to teach b) never force anything down their throats c)
                                    always try to do a balance of new and old stuff (an easy repetoire dance like
                                    Black Alman to cement things in their heads, maybe one italian, an
                                    intermediate
                                    ECD and Posten's or something fast and fun) and c) take things very slowly.

                                    And unfortuantely from what I've seen, they haven't quite caught on yet.
                                    People
                                    may not run from the room when they hear the next dance is going to be Gelosia
                                    or something like that, but they don't exactly jump for joy like I've
                                    witnessed
                                    over Hole in the Head (oops, Wall).

                                    Of course I can't speak for what's going on down south.

                                    Katheri

                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                    Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                    Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                    deanc@... Calontir
                                    http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                    Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                                    ... Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*). I think the ... Oh, but that s the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah.... Katherine
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                                      >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                                      >> >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                                      >> >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                                      >> >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                                      >>
                                      >> I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                                      >> dances that I wish
                                      >> would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                                      >> Italian dances that
                                      >> my
                                      >> (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                                      >> other being Petit
                                      >> Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet).

                                      Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*).

                                      I think the
                                      >third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                                      >ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                                      >while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.
                                      >

                                      Oh, but that's the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah....

                                      Katherine

                                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                      Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                                      Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                                      deanc@... Calontir
                                      http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                                      Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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