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RE: [CalontirDance] Bardic Charter

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  • Chris Lewis
    I would like to clarify for a moment before much else. The Bardic College is not trying to say if you do these arts you have to be a Bard. The reason the
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 8, 2008
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      I would like to clarify for a moment before much else.



      The Bardic College is not trying to say if you do these arts you have to be
      a Bard.



      The reason the change came about, was trying to open things up to people who
      want to be involved.



      So I think the intent is, "We will accept any as Bards who do any of the
      following activities, if they wish to associate as bards," is a little more
      accurate than, "All of the people who do these arts are by default, Bards."



      The whole thing appears to be a bit of a sticky wicket from where I stand,
      but I think this might help the appearance of what is being discussed.



      -Roberto



      _____

      From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Tsire Tuzevo
      Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:34 AM
      To: calontirdance@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [CalontirDance] Bardic Charter



      Emelye,

      Thanks for bringing this up. What does everyone on this list feel about
      being included in the Bardic College charter? Were any of you approached
      about your opinion on the subject before being added?

      Tsire
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    • Conna
      Thanks for the post, Emelye. And Roberto, thanks for the follow-up. My first thought is that it seems like an odd definition of a bard. But maybe a bard is a
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 8, 2008
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        Thanks for the post, Emelye. And Roberto, thanks for the follow-up.

        My first thought is that it seems like an odd definition of a bard. But
        maybe a bard is a hard thing to define. :)

        BARD is included in the Harvard Dictionary of Music (The hereditary
        poet-musicians of the Celtic nations...), so maybe I'm wrong to think
        that "musician" is a far cry from a bard.

        My gut reaction is that, as a musician, I'm not a bard, nor should that
        be enough to qualify me if I wanted to join the Bardic College. When I
        sing at post-revels, I feel much more like a bard, powered, I suppose,
        by the wisdom of the songs written by others. Powerful stories. They
        make me feel like a potential bard, not canzonets or madrigals or
        Playford tunes.


        This is Calontir. It's our culture, our Way, to include everyone. If
        the Bardic College wants to take in all the various performers who have
        a need to belong to an organized group of some kind, I guess it doesn't
        harm anything. But it does strike me as odd and wrong in this case.

        Why doesn't the College consider some generic description, like
        "performer" rather than specifically listing musicians and dancers?

        Conna


        On Tuesday, July 8, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Chris Lewis wrote:

        > I would like to clarify for a moment before much else.
        >
        > The Bardic College is not trying to say if you do these arts you have
        > to be
        > a Bard.
        >
        > The reason the change came about, was trying to open things up to
        > people who
        > want to be involved.
        >
        > So I think the intent is, "We will accept any as Bards who do any of
        > the
        > following activities, if they wish to associate as bards," is a little
        > more
        > accurate than, "All of the people who do these arts are by default,
        > Bards."
        >
        > The whole thing appears to be a bit of a sticky wicket from where I
        > stand,
        > but I think this might help the appearance of what is being discussed.
        >
        > -Roberto
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of Tsire Tuzevo
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:34 AM
        > To: calontirdance@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [CalontirDance] Bardic Charter
        >
        > Emelye,
        >
        > Thanks for bringing this up. What does everyone on this list feel about
        > being included in the Bardic College charter? Were any of you
        > approached
        > about your opinion on the subject before being added?
        >
        > Tsire
        > __________________________________________________________
        > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
        > http://www.imtalkat
        > <http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace>
        > hon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Becky Buchanan
        Hi everyone, What follows this paragraph is my post to the Calontir Bards list from a week ago. I was quoting a prior post from Andrixos in points #1 and #2:
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 9, 2008
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          Hi everyone,

          What follows this paragraph is my post to the Calontir Bards' list from a week ago. I was quoting a prior post from Andrixos in points #1 and #2:

          As a musician, I couldn't agree more with these two statements:

          1.) "Calling a musician, dancer, drummer or juggler a bard would only confuse the issue. Call them entertainers as well, and recognize that they have different specialties."

          2.) "There are techniques from each of these other entertainment arts that are helpful in some aspects of performance as a bard. But I would suggest that the vast majority of their techniques are specific to their own field."

          I am primarily an instrumental musician (wooden flute/fife & keyboard instruments) and I also like singing period songs. I love playing period dance music, instrumental Renaissance secular music, pre-Renaissance non-secular music, anything Istanpitta performs, etc. I can't think of any period music I've attempted that I've hated or never wanted to play again. I also enjoy singing in a period music group here in Mag Mor. I also like singing solo songs in old languages - Old French, 9th century Irish Gaelic, Ladino, Cornish, Middle English, 15th c Polish, whatever. [ Big Plus: since no one speaks these languages anymore, criticism of my pronunciation is strategically limited! (-: ]

          So to me, the label "Musician" is a better fit than "Bard." I'm more of a Bard fan. I do enjoy the SCA Bardic songs, but as someone else said, my memory is not that good. I am amazed at those who can sing all those SCA songs with 14 verses each and love hearing those very moving Calontir songs around a campfire.

          Also, I'm not sure what's to be gained by organizing musicians under a Bardic College umbrella or into a Guild. I just like to play and sing. I don't want to write reports or have meetings about it. I'd prefer to remain laid back and just play music with other musicians, independent of a bureaucracy.

          Thanks again,

          Emelye Tayte


          Conna <conna1@...> wrote: Thanks for the post, Emelye. And Roberto, thanks for the follow-up.

          My first thought is that it seems like an odd definition of a bard. But
          maybe a bard is a hard thing to define. :)

          BARD is included in the Harvard Dictionary of Music (The hereditary
          poet-musicians of the Celtic nations...), so maybe I'm wrong to think
          that "musician" is a far cry from a bard.

          My gut reaction is that, as a musician, I'm not a bard, nor should that
          be enough to qualify me if I wanted to join the Bardic College. When I
          sing at post-revels, I feel much more like a bard, powered, I suppose,
          by the wisdom of the songs written by others. Powerful stories. They
          make me feel like a potential bard, not canzonets or madrigals or
          Playford tunes.


          This is Calontir. It's our culture, our Way, to include everyone. If
          the Bardic College wants to take in all the various performers who have
          a need to belong to an organized group of some kind, I guess it doesn't
          harm anything. But it does strike me as odd and wrong in this case.

          Why doesn't the College consider some generic description, like
          "performer" rather than specifically listing musicians and dancers?

          Conna


          On Tuesday, July 8, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Chris Lewis wrote:

          > I would like to clarify for a moment before much else.
          >
          > The Bardic College is not trying to say if you do these arts you have
          > to be
          > a Bard.
          >
          > The reason the change came about, was trying to open things up to
          > people who
          > want to be involved.
          >
          > So I think the intent is, "We will accept any as Bards who do any of
          > the
          > following activities, if they wish to associate as bards," is a little
          > more
          > accurate than, "All of the people who do these arts are by default,
          > Bards."
          >
          > The whole thing appears to be a bit of a sticky wicket from where I
          > stand,
          > but I think this might help the appearance of what is being discussed.
          >
          > -Roberto
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of Tsire Tuzevo
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:34 AM
          > To: calontirdance@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [CalontirDance] Bardic Charter
          >
          > Emelye,
          >
          > Thanks for bringing this up. What does everyone on this list feel about
          > being included in the Bardic College charter? Were any of you
          > approached
          > about your opinion on the subject before being added?
          >
          > Tsire
          > __________________________________________________________
          > Making the world a better place one message at a time.
          > http://www.imtalkat
          >
          > hon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


          ------------------------------------

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        • Tsire Tuzevo
          Emelye, Conna & Roberto, Well put all of you! For what it s worth, I see my self as a performing artist. I do European dance, period vocal music, and random
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 9, 2008
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            Emelye, Conna & Roberto,

            Well put all of you!

            For what it's worth, I see my self as a performing artist. I do European dance, period vocal music, and random entertainment pieces. While I feel that bards and I have a link as performers, I ,in no way, see myself as a bard. I'm not comfortable with my arts being lumped into the charter and think it may be confusing to some people who may feel that participation in these (proposed) newly included areas would, de facto, make them members of the Bardic College. Dance has so very little to do with the bardic tradition, it seems like a stretch to include it._I agree that I'd rather just do my art and not have meetings about it. I've felt pressure, mostly from non-dancers, for years to form a dance guild. I've resisted this as I don't think a formal structure is warranted. This also feels to me, true or not, like a way to lump dancers into a category, a guild, or an organizational structure that we have been vocal about not wanting. This is frustrating to me as a dancer, a singer, a dramatic performer, a spectacle organizer and decidedly not a bard.

            Tsire






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          • Becky Buchanan
            I could not agree more with you Tsire! I just got an email from the Bardic list regarding the latest Charter revision, which does not specifically call out
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 9, 2008
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              I could not agree more with you Tsire!

              I just got an email from the Bardic list regarding the latest Charter revision, which does not specifically call out musicians, dancers, etc. I think it's definitely a step in the right direction. I uploaded it to the Files section.

              Thanks,
              Emelye

              Tsire Tuzevo <tsire@...> wrote: Emelye, Conna & Roberto,

              Well put all of you!

              For what it's worth, I see my self as a performing artist. I do European dance, period vocal music, and random entertainment pieces. While I feel that bards and I have a link as performers, I ,in no way, see myself as a bard. I'm not comfortable with my arts being lumped into the charter and think it may be confusing to some people who may feel that participation in these (proposed) newly included areas would, de facto, make them members of the Bardic College. Dance has so very little to do with the bardic tradition, it seems like a stretch to include it._I agree that I'd rather just do my art and not have meetings about it. I've felt pressure, mostly from non-dancers, for years to form a dance guild. I've resisted this as I don't think a formal structure is warranted. This also feels to me, true or not, like a way to lump dancers into a category, a guild, or an organizational structure that we have been vocal about not wanting. This is frustrating to me as a dancer, a
              singer, a dramatic performer, a spectacle organizer and decidedly not a bard.

              Tsire

              __________________________________________________________
              Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
              http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008

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            • Conna
              I bring joyous news to this list: This past Saturday morning, the Crown of the Midrealm put Baron Phillippe de Lyon, former recent Baron of our dear friends in
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 21, 2008
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                I bring joyous news to this list:

                This past Saturday morning, the Crown of the Midrealm put Baron
                Phillippe de Lyon,
                former recent Baron of our dear friends in Shattered Crystal on vigil
                for the Order of
                the Laurel.

                He was elevated to the order at Saturday night's Court for his skills
                in the "arts of the
                courtier."

                Constantia and I serenaded him from a purple-and-gold shadefly, set
                next to his vigil chamber. We were quickly joined by a merry bunch of
                Midrealm musicians, including several fun members of Music Subterranea.

                Conde Fernando spoke wisely in the Laurel ceremony, commenting heavily
                on Philippe's great friendship to Calontir. I couldn't agree more!

                Hurray for Master Philippe!
                Conna
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