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Re: RE: [CalontirDance] Lilies Classes

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  • Kirsten Garner
    Hi! :) ... If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called A la Ferrarese which has that version on it. It s also got music you can use for
    Message 1 of 18 , May 5, 2000
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      Hi! :)
      >> two-person version of Petit Riens
      > Oooh... feel like shareing? I'm curious now

      If you go to amazon.co.uk, they have a re-issue of a CD called "A la
      Ferrarese" which has that version on it. It's also got music you can
      use for Patience, Cupido and Dampnes. :)

      > So I hear! It actually gives one a sense of hope! I really think
      more people
      > would enjoy Italian if they would just give it a chance--very
      flirtatious and
      > goodness knows there are enough flirts int he SCA to make things
      like that
      > quite
      > popular indeed!

      I've been working on stressing the "flirtation" thing out here.
      Sometimes it seems like people only think they can flirt in Hole in
      the Wall and Mannschaft. Amoroso at least has been going some way
      towards remedying that. I guess they think that on the whole Italians
      are too difficult to think about flirting in. Which, in a way, I can
      understand since I used to be scared of them too. But, I guess it
      just takes time and patience. :)

      > Oh, ok I will sometimes translate terms into English, but more
      often than not
      > rather than translate the step names (which can be pretty silly
      sounding) I
      > just
      > clip them off.

      Oh yeah - names that don't have ready English translations just stay
      in Italian. :) I can't see myself calling for a "broken sequence"
      when I can just say "spezzato". :) Although I have been known to
      call "spezzati" "scoochy steps" just to get my point across. :)
      However, that's only for teaching! After the first inital run-
      throughs, it's back to Italian! :)

      >> Mercantia
      > Ok. HOpefully I can get my crew to try it over the summer when we
      don't have
      > homework and can have two hour dance practices.

      It's not overly difficult once you get the idea behind it. What's
      really fun is to work it and Sobria up to be performed together. :)
      Marketplace (where the lady dances with everyone - trying them out,
      as it were) and Sobriety (where she only dances with her partner and
      everyone else tries to pick her up). :) They look really good with a
      lot of facial expression and drama. :) I think the dance part is
      almost secondary. :)

      > Well you still have to admit she's a very nifty person! Seriously,
      though,
      > I'd
      > be interested to know where you differ. I've got a copy of the big
      blue book
      > of
      > 15th c. dance treatises in my room right now and have just started
      poking
      > through it.

      Smith? Great resource! :) I've reconstructed so much stuff out of
      that book! :) Not to mention that the first volume is excellent for
      theory. :) (Volume II is back in print, if you weren't aware of that
      yet. :)

      Rosina and I differ on things like riprese, pive and contrepassi. Oh,
      and salterelli. :) We also have some serious differences on
      reconstruction in some of the dances. She does some things that seem
      to me to be really wierd. But that's kinda the thing about dance
      reconstruction - what I see in the source and work out in performance
      may not be what she sees or you see or anyone else sees. The only
      thing we can do is try to keep it intact with the sources themselves.
      However, she and I do have some absolutely reverse ways of looking at
      things sometimes. :)

      > *laugh* It's a small small society we're living in. I wonder how
      many steps
      > it
      > takes before every dance master/mistress in the known world is
      connected to
      > every other one.

      Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
      Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
      Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
      the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
      everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
      could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

      I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
      managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
      there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
      for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
      here. :)

      Julian
    • Sauer, Michael F.
      ... Well, better late than never :) ... Hrumph! I came out to your war ;) ... I wouldn t say thare is specific resistance to any dance form. This is not
      Message 2 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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        > Hi Conrad (et all..)

        Well, better late than never :)


        > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get there
        > this year! :)

        Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

        > Just a couple of thoughts from an exiled Calontiri...
        >
        > I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
        > mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
        > it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :) I
        > don't know how the dance world is over in Calontir anymore, but in
        > this dance-backwater kingdom we tend to have resistance to the later
        > Italians.

        I wouldn't say thare is specific resistance to any dance form.
        This is not necessarilly a good thing, becaue its mostly that
        the (relatively few) actually interested in dance will try most
        anything. But hte numbers are starting to grow. Of the 9 weekends
        in april and may, dancing has been on the schedule of at least
        5 events!


        > Makes me wish I could be there this year. What are the classes
        > shaping up like for the KWASS?

        stay tuned :)

        >
        > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)

        That you know? Have music for?
        I have no idea.

        Conrad
      • Sauer, Michael F.
        ... I agree too, but I don t know the last one (yet). I think the third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the ECD mindset cause it sorta
        Message 3 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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          > >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
          > >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
          > >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
          >
          > I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
          > dances that I wish
          > would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
          > Italian dances that
          > my
          > (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
          > other being Petit
          > Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).


          I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet). I think the
          third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
          ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
          while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.


          Conrad
        • Sauer, Michael F.
          ... Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for petit rose (a 2 person dance). Conrad
          Message 4 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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            > I've got a two-person version of Petit Vriens which I occasionally
            > throw on to confuse our kingdom dance minister. :) But that's beside
            > the point. :)

            Aparently someone back east has reconstruced and created music for
            petit rose (a 2 person dance).

            Conrad
          • Sauer, Michael F.
            ... Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina, Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam, Perenell (sp?),
            Message 5 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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              > Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
              > Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
              > Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
              > the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
              > everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of <insert name here> -
              > could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)

              Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
              Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
              Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

              Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

              > I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
              > managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
              > there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
              > for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
              > here. :)

              Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
              if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
              and like what they know.

              Conrad
            • Kirsten Garner
              Hi all.. ... there ... I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;) ... That I know, can dance and
              Message 6 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                Hi all..

                > > All this talk about Lillies makes me wish I could actually get
                there
                > > this year! :)
                >
                > Hrumph! I came out to your war ;)

                I know, bad Julian. :) Just mark it down to another instance of
                Tristram and I avoiding each other. ;)

                > > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                >
                > That you know? Have music for?

                That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)

                It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)

                Julian
              • Kirsten Garner
                Hi again... :) ... year :) Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don t know if I can afford Boston. :) ... like ... That s what I ve been
                Message 7 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                  Hi again... :)

                  > Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last
                  year :)

                  Next time... well, maybe if it ever gets out this way. I don't know
                  if I can afford Boston. :)

                  > Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                  > if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they
                  like
                  > and like what they know.

                  That's what I've been doing. I landed in Atenveldt, went to a dance
                  practice that Friday night and ended up teaching two classes at the
                  Kingdom Dance Collegium (the next day - Saturday). It's been downhill
                  ever since. ;) I'm now baronial dance minister for the barony (and
                  it's a HUGE barony - scared the mess out of me when I first got
                  here). I run two dance practices a month and at events. The problem
                  is that there was already *some* dance out here (mostly OOP and some
                  ECD) which is what people want to do. There is heavy resistance to
                  Italians. So..I try to work around that as well as I can -
                  introducing easy Italians very very very slowly. There's also the
                  ever-present "Can we do X dance?". A good example is Contrapasso
                  Nuovo. To which the answer is inevitably "Which version? Caroso Il
                  Ballarino, Caroso Nobilita, Negri, Master dance laurel's version, or
                  some other odd creation?". No one knows, but when you try to
                  introduce the one you know, the response is, wait for it, "That's not
                  how we do it". It's kinda frustrating at times. So I'm open for
                  suggestions. :)

                  Julian
                • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                  ... OOh, I m somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I d need a bit of review
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                    >> > PS: Conrad - last count was 121 dances! Where are you? ;)
                    >>
                    >> That you know? Have music for?
                    >
                    >That I know, can dance and have music for. :) That's counting the 4
                    >15th-century Italians that I put together last week. :)
                    >
                    >It's amazing what one can do when one is avoiding a PhD. :)
                    >
                    >Julian

                    OOh, I'm somewhat in awe. I just catalogued mine and it ended up only in the
                    mid-40s (and that was being generous counting things I'd need a bit of review
                    before teaching, but not counting the Inns of Court stuff).

                    But then I'm only avoiding a bachelor's!

                    Katherine

                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                    Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                    Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                    deanc@... Calontir
                    http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                    Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                  • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                    ... Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count? There are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn t want to
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                      >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                      >> Sounds like an experiment to me! :) Let's see...I know Conrad (hi
                      >> Conrad!), Bartolo, Mistress Caitlin de Courcy, Wolfgang Adolphus
                      >> Jaeger, Greg (gb)(and that's a story and a half), Master Niccolo and
                      >> the people here.... I'm sure that should get us at least half-way to
                      >> everyone else. ;) Heehee - the 7 degrees of -
                      >> could be a great party game for Pennsic! :)
                      >
                      >Its more like 2 or 3. My list; Alphia, Sion, Faelen, Rosenore, Alina,
                      >Rosina, Philipe, Gregory, Giuseppe, William Redcape, Guiiliam,
                      >Perenell (sp?), Nicoolo, Julian, Del all the calontir people etc.

                      Hmmm... how well do we need to know dance instructors for them to count?
                      There
                      are a few who I could probably count as people I know but wouldn't want to
                      (sorry, getting catty for a moment, no one here in Calontir, thank goodness!)

                      So... People I really know: Conrad, Tsire, Daria (in Calontir), Bartolo (in
                      Atenvelt), Alina, Llewellyn, and the rest of the Cynnabar crew (in the
                      Midrealm), Theodorin, Anne, and (briefly) Melusine (in Drachenwald). Must
                      network more....

                      >
                      >Ok so I cheated and went to the known world dance symposium last year :)

                      New year for sure. Already budgeting for a plane ticket.

                      >
                      >> I have a question for y'all out there in Calontir. How have you
                      >> managed to get the Italians to catch on? I remember when I was out
                      >> there, we predominately did ECD and Arbeau. What things have worked
                      >> for you? :) (I'm desperately searching for new things to try out
                      >> here. :)
                      >
                      >Show up and teach. Its easy to just start teaching from scratch then
                      >if you have a moderately active group of dances who know what they like
                      >and like what they know.

                      Well, I've been blessed with very open dancers (undergrads at a very liberal
                      college for the most part), but my tactic has been a) to be openly
                      enthusiastic
                      about what I'm going to teach b) never force anything down their throats c)
                      always try to do a balance of new and old stuff (an easy repetoire dance like
                      Black Alman to cement things in their heads, maybe one italian, an
                      intermediate
                      ECD and Posten's or something fast and fun) and c) take things very slowly.

                      And unfortuantely from what I've seen, they haven't quite caught on yet.
                      People
                      may not run from the room when they hear the next dance is going to be Gelosia
                      or something like that, but they don't exactly jump for joy like I've
                      witnessed
                      over Hole in the Head (oops, Wall).

                      Of course I can't speak for what's going on down south.

                      Katheri

                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                      Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                      Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                      deanc@... Calontir
                      http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                      Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                    • Ms. Catherine E. Dean, Esq.
                      ... Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*). I think the ... Oh, but that s the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah.... Katherine
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 8, 2000
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                        >===== Original Message From CalontirDance@egroups.com =====
                        >> >I personally love Rostiboli. :) I learned it in Drachenwald (via the
                        >> >mundane Italian schools) and will do it anytime, anyplace. :) I wish
                        >> >it was done more often in the SCA (well, outside Carolingia!). :)
                        >>
                        >> I couldn't agree more. It's one of my 'personal crusade'
                        >> dances that I wish
                        >> would become an SCA standard. It's also one of only two
                        >> Italian dances that
                        >> my
                        >> (overwhelmingly open and wonderful) dancers request (the
                        >> other being Petit
                        >> Riens, although I'm winning them over with Dolce Amoroso Fiamma).
                        >
                        >
                        >I agree too, but I don't know the last one (yet).

                        Soon, soon (if the music gods cooporate *laugh*).

                        I think the
                        >third one in my book is Gelosia. I think it helps some of the
                        >ECD mindset cause it sorta looks line one (at least for a little
                        >while - none of the everyone wandering all over the place.
                        >

                        Oh, but that's the glory of 15th c--all of the wonderful chase stuff. Ah....

                        Katherine

                        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                        Cathy Dean Katherine Mercer
                        Grinnell College Seneschal, College of NoMountain
                        deanc@... Calontir
                        http://home.earthlink.net/~lfdean
                        Knowledge is Power; Power Corrupts; Study Hard; Be Evil
                        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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