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Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...

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  • son huynh
    Thanks Eryn for the explanation. I too have the same result from my Red spawn...i also breed a Intense Yellow HM Male to  Intense
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 1, 2010
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      Thanks Eryn for the explanation. I too have the same result from my Red spawn...i also breed a Intense Yellow HM Male to  Intense yellow female,...results...light body with green or blue iridescence no true yellow!! ..as for my platinum red dragon HM spawn I got mix result...but I did get a handful of true full head platinum Dragon, the rest came out to be almost like a purple red dragon, but the dragon scales a very spotty..most interesting of all is my Salamander Dragon HMPK spawn (biggest spawn too!!)...I have a wide range of colors from that spawn..from blue with red , green mask,  green with red, purple and blueish green,and some with butterfly pattern showing...
       
      Are we haveing a meeting in Dec.?? 
       
      Sonny Huynh



      From: Eryn Rosenbaum <erynrosenbaum@...>
      To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 3:26:06 PM
      Subject: Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...

       

      Hey June, 


      I'm still here on the list! Glad you got those guys to spawn for you. And you got yellows, too! Very nice; that's an under-represented class so you are in a great position to show them. :) You may not be seeing orange because the orange that line throws is pretty close in color to red -- it's not the orangey-orange, but a pale red. Or, you may not have gotten any oranges after all. 

      As for the taupe, that's probably caused by a darkish under-coat that has come in while the red body color hasn't yet, or is yellow. Especially for the females, the red can take a LONG time to come in. I'm guessing, though, that since you're already seeing the red on other females, they're dark bodied yellows -- and yellows should be light-bodied fish. Since you crossed a dark-bodied red male with a light-bodied yellow female, you'll get all different combinations of those traits, and unfortunately dark bodies and yellow pigment on the same fish makes a not very nice fish. The taupe ones are probably not showable. 

      The blue is just iridescence that shouldn't be there but is (a color fault). None of my red fish were 100% iridescence-free, but most males had dark enough red that you couldn't see the blue without looking extremely carefully and with a flashlight. Without dark red, the "taupe" fish provide a better background on which to see the iridescence. Probably you can see it on the yellows too -- same effect of a light body. If you want to continue the line, choose breeders with the most solid red or light-bodied yellow (least butterfly), and the least iridescence. Glad the finnage is good, at least!

      Didn't see a photo attached. Can you repost?

      Cheers to all,
      Eryn

      On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:39 PM, June DeLane <june@...> wrote:
       

      Kept meaning to post on this, because I am confused.  Recall back at the Fenestra meeting over the summer, I picked up a gorgeous pair of Eryn's fish- a red male (who is still the best looking guy in my fish room) and a yellow female.  I promised to spawn these two, and was told that I would get reds, yellows, and maybe an orange! 
       
      After some issues with velvet, I ended up with probably 20-25 fry.  I have quite a few yellows, some reds, no oranges, and a couple of light body fish with hot red fins (sadly, few males again).  What I also got were 2 boys, and a couple of girls who are... um... taupe.  Yep- light brown, with a very tiny bit of *blue*.  One of the girls is a butterfly, and the boys are just brownish.  So, what freak of genetics is this that caused my red/yellow spawn to result in *taupe*??  With blue even??  The couple of boys have nice fins,and the girls are really sharp looking, but the colors confuse me. 
       
      Also, got an email from Joe Barraza- he has a couple of spawns of Red Platinum Dragon HM spawns growing out that should be ready in January for folks who want to buy/trade.  He included a picture of one of the males, and he is really gorgeous- I may want a pair of these guys.  Don't know if he's on this list (::waves::) but I encouraged him to come to a meeting if he could, or participate on the list.  Also, he is interested in obtaining a microworm culture from someone, so if there's anyone out there culturing them, let me know.
       
      I'll bring a few of my little taupe-ies to the next meeting, as well as the couple I am stumped as to gender on.  I feel like I'm breaking new ground on "where the hell did *this* color come from?!?".
       
      TTFN,
      June



    • lisalisacats
      No meeting in December.  We are having our club Christmas Party at Larissa s on January 8. Cats are my drug of choice. ... From: son huynh
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 1, 2010
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        No meeting in December.  We are having our club Christmas Party at Larissa's on January 8.

        Cats are my drug of choice.

        --- On Wed, 12/1/10, son huynh <sonnyh99@...> wrote:

        From: son huynh <sonnyh99@...>
        Subject: Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...
        To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 8:19 AM

         
        Thanks Eryn for the explanation. I too have the same result from my Red spawn...i also breed a Intense Yellow HM Male to  Intense yellow female,...results...light body with green or blue iridescence no true yellow!! ..as for my platinum red dragon HM spawn I got mix result...but I did get a handful of true full head platinum Dragon, the rest came out to be almost like a purple red dragon, but the dragon scales a very spotty..most interesting of all is my Salamander Dragon HMPK spawn (biggest spawn too!!)...I have a wide range of colors from that spawn..from blue with red , green mask,  green with red, purple and blueish green,and some with butterfly pattern showing...
         
        Are we haveing a meeting in Dec.?? 
         
        Sonny Huynh



        From: Eryn Rosenbaum <erynrosenbaum@...>
        To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 3:26:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...

         
        Hey June, 

        I'm still here on the list! Glad you got those guys to spawn for you. And you got yellows, too! Very nice; that's an under-represented class so you are in a great position to show them. :) You may not be seeing orange because the orange that line throws is pretty close in color to red -- it's not the orangey-orange, but a pale red. Or, you may not have gotten any oranges after all. 

        As for the taupe, that's probably caused by a darkish under-coat that has come in while the red body color hasn't yet, or is yellow. Especially for the females, the red can take a LONG time to come in. I'm guessing, though, that since you're already seeing the red on other females, they're dark bodied yellows -- and yellows should be light-bodied fish. Since you crossed a dark-bodied red male with a light-bodied yellow female, you'll get all different combinations of those traits, and unfortunately dark bodies and yellow pigment on the same fish makes a not very nice fish. The taupe ones are probably not showable. 

        The blue is just iridescence that shouldn't be there but is (a color fault). None of my red fish were 100% iridescence-free, but most males had dark enough red that you couldn't see the blue without looking extremely carefully and with a flashlight. Without dark red, the "taupe" fish provide a better background on which to see the iridescence. Probably you can see it on the yellows too -- same effect of a light body. If you want to continue the line, choose breeders with the most solid red or light-bodied yellow (least butterfly), and the least iridescence. Glad the finnage is good, at least!

        Didn't see a photo attached. Can you repost?

        Cheers to all,
        Eryn

        On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:39 PM, June DeLane <june@...> wrote:
         
        Kept meaning to post on this, because I am confused.  Recall back at the Fenestra meeting over the summer, I picked up a gorgeous pair of Eryn's fish- a red male (who is still the best looking guy in my fish room) and a yellow female.  I promised to spawn these two, and was told that I would get reds, yellows, and maybe an orange! 
         
        After some issues with velvet, I ended up with probably 20-25 fry.  I have quite a few yellows, some reds, no oranges, and a couple of light body fish with hot red fins (sadly, few males again).  What I also got were 2 boys, and a couple of girls who are... um... taupe.  Yep- light brown, with a very tiny bit of *blue*.  One of the girls is a butterfly, and the boys are just brownish.  So, what freak of genetics is this that caused my red/yellow spawn to result in *taupe*??  With blue even??  The couple of boys have nice fins,and the girls are really sharp looking, but the colors confuse me. 
         
        Also, got an email from Joe Barraza- he has a couple of spawns of Red Platinum Dragon HM spawns growing out that should be ready in January for folks who want to buy/trade.  He included a picture of one of the males, and he is really gorgeous- I may want a pair of these guys.  Don't know if he's on this list (::waves::) but I encouraged him to come to a meeting if he could, or participate on the list.  Also, he is interested in obtaining a microworm culture from someone, so if there's anyone out there culturing them, let me know.
         
        I'll bring a few of my little taupe-ies to the next meeting, as well as the couple I am stumped as to gender on.  I feel like I'm breaking new ground on "where the hell did *this* color come from?!?".
         
        TTFN,
        June



      • Karen Wolff
        Thanks, Lisa!  I ll put it on my calendar!! ________________________________ From: lisalisacats To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 1, 2010
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          Thanks, Lisa!  I'll put it on my calendar!!


          From: lisalisacats <lisalisacats@...>
          To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 8:25:11 AM
          Subject: Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...

           

          No meeting in December.  We are having our club Christmas Party at Larissa's on January 8.

          Cats are my drug of choice.

          --- On Wed, 12/1/10, son huynh <sonnyh99@...> wrote:

          From: son huynh <sonnyh99@...>
          Subject: Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...
          To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 8:19 AM

           
          Thanks Eryn for the explanation. I too have the same result from my Red spawn...i also breed a Intense Yellow HM Male to  Intense yellow female,...results...light body with green or blue iridescence no true yellow!! ..as for my platinum red dragon HM spawn I got mix result...but I did get a handful of true full head platinum Dragon, the rest came out to be almost like a purple red dragon, but the dragon scales a very spotty..most interesting of all is my Salamander Dragon HMPK spawn (biggest spawn too!!)...I have a wide range of colors from that spawn..from blue with red , green mask,  green with red, purple and blueish green,and some with butterfly pattern showing...
           
          Are we haveing a meeting in Dec.?? 
           
          Sonny Huynh



          From: Eryn Rosenbaum <erynrosenbaum@...>
          To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 3:26:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...

           
          Hey June, 

          I'm still here on the list! Glad you got those guys to spawn for you. And you got yellows, too! Very nice; that's an under-represented class so you are in a great position to show them. :) You may not be seeing orange because the orange that line throws is pretty close in color to red -- it's not the orangey-orange, but a pale red. Or, you may not have gotten any oranges after all. 

          As for the taupe, that's probably caused by a darkish under-coat that has come in while the red body color hasn't yet, or is yellow. Especially for the females, the red can take a LONG time to come in. I'm guessing, though, that since you're already seeing the red on other females, they're dark bodied yellows -- and yellows should be light-bodied fish. Since you crossed a dark-bodied red male with a light-bodied yellow female, you'll get all different combinations of those traits, and unfortunately dark bodies and yellow pigment on the same fish makes a not very nice fish. The taupe ones are probably not showable. 

          The blue is just iridescence that shouldn't be there but is (a color fault). None of my red fish were 100% iridescence-free, but most males had dark enough red that you couldn't see the blue without looking extremely carefully and with a flashlight. Without dark red, the "taupe" fish provide a better background on which to see the iridescence. Probably you can see it on the yellows too -- same effect of a light body. If you want to continue the line, choose breeders with the most solid red or light-bodied yellow (least butterfly), and the least iridescence. Glad the finnage is good, at least!

          Didn't see a photo attached. Can you repost?

          Cheers to all,
          Eryn

          On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:39 PM, June DeLane <june@...> wrote:
           
          Kept meaning to post on this, because I am confused.  Recall back at the Fenestra meeting over the summer, I picked up a gorgeous pair of Eryn's fish- a red male (who is still the best looking guy in my fish room) and a yellow female.  I promised to spawn these two, and was told that I would get reds, yellows, and maybe an orange! 
           
          After some issues with velvet, I ended up with probably 20-25 fry.  I have quite a few yellows, some reds, no oranges, and a couple of light body fish with hot red fins (sadly, few males again).  What I also got were 2 boys, and a couple of girls who are... um... taupe.  Yep- light brown, with a very tiny bit of *blue*.  One of the girls is a butterfly, and the boys are just brownish.  So, what freak of genetics is this that caused my red/yellow spawn to result in *taupe*??  With blue even??  The couple of boys have nice fins,and the girls are really sharp looking, but the colors confuse me. 
           
          Also, got an email from Joe Barraza- he has a couple of spawns of Red Platinum Dragon HM spawns growing out that should be ready in January for folks who want to buy/trade.  He included a picture of one of the males, and he is really gorgeous- I may want a pair of these guys.  Don't know if he's on this list (::waves::) but I encouraged him to come to a meeting if he could, or participate on the list.  Also, he is interested in obtaining a microworm culture from someone, so if there's anyone out there culturing them, let me know.
           
          I'll bring a few of my little taupe-ies to the next meeting, as well as the couple I am stumped as to gender on.  I feel like I'm breaking new ground on "where the hell did *this* color come from?!?".
           
          TTFN,
          June




        • June Delane
          ... Yay! I had figured/hoped you would be, so you could solve the mystery :^) ... The yellows are kind of... meh, actually. Almost a lack of color rather
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 1, 2010
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            On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Eryn Rosenbaum wrote:

            > I'm still here on the list!

            Yay! I had figured/hoped you would be, so you could solve the
            mystery :^)

            > Glad you got those guys to spawn for you. And you got yellows, too!

            The yellows are kind of... meh, actually. Almost a lack of color
            rather than being yellow. Probably the nicest fish in the spawn are
            the white body/red fins (their bodies are *clean* white and the fins
            are a hot red; is there still a cambo/bicolor class?) but, dammit,
            they are female. The reds all look pretty red, so the orange ones
            were probably casualties of the damn velvet.

            > As for the taupe, that's probably caused by a darkish under-coat
            > that has come in while the red body color hasn't yet, or is yellow.
            > Especially for the females, the red can take a LONG time to come in.
            > I'm guessing, though, that since you're already seeing the red on
            > other females, they're dark bodied yellows -- and yellows should be
            > light-bodied fish. Since you crossed a dark-bodied red male with a
            > light-bodied yellow female, you'll get all different combinations of
            > those traits, and unfortunately dark bodies and yellow pigment on
            > the same fish makes a not very nice fish. The taupe ones are
            > probably not showable.

            That's kind of what I figured, except I didn't know about the blue
            iridescence. The Dad looks RED red to me, even under flashlight, but
            that's just phenotype. The taupe ones are kind of amusing, and
            somewhat pretty, but essentially rather of useless, yes? I don't want
            to spawn them, that's for sure. Anyone interested in a taupe fish or
            two? If I bring a couple to the holiday party, might anyone be
            interested?

            > Probably you can see it on the yellows too -- same effect of a light
            > body. If you want to continue the line, choose breeders with the
            > most solid red or light-bodied yellow (least butterfly), and the
            > least iridescence. Glad the finnage is good, at least!

            I'll have to see- thus far, the only one I'm certain for sure is a
            male is one of the taupe ones. The other taupe is probably male, but
            is taking a while. One of the yellows might be, but again, hard to
            say. Good fins on the taupe male, pretty nice on most of the females,
            but there are several that I can't tell if they are well-finned girls
            or shorter finned boys! Probably another by-product of having to
            spend so much energy fighting the stoopid velvet thing- stunted fin
            growth. And I'm having a hard time seeing egg spots on all but the
            most obvious ones. I wouldn't mind playing with this line, because
            damn, that Dad *still* looks spectacular after spawning twice- he's
            easily the best fish in my fish room, and could almost still be shown,
            his finnage is just that striking. Not sure what I'd spawn him with,
            though, given the taupe issues, and the lack of females excepting his
            daughters.

            The second spawn I used him for is one I did with a bizarre little
            girl I picked up at one of the meetings- she's a red, but has a layer
            of metallic that makes her look dark burgundy. Unfortunately, that
            appears to be translating into blue iridescence in the fry thus far-
            not showable, but pretty (and I'm all about the pretty anyway). So I
            may try him with one of those daughters, for kicks...

            > Didn't see a photo attached. Can you repost?

            I hadn't included a photo. May see if I can get one with iPhone or
            TinyCamera, but I'm not the best fish photographer.

            TTFN,
            June
          • Joe Cooper
            Hi June, Can do the original spawn again? Or try the father back to one of the first spawn daughters. Joe From: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 1, 2010
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              Hi June,

              Can do the original spawn again?

              Or try the father back to one of the first spawn daughters.

              Joe

               

              From: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of June Delane
              Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 7:18 PM
              To: CaliforniaBettas@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [CBS] Strange spawns, gorgeous Red Dragons, and microworms...

               

               


              On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Eryn Rosenbaum wrote:

              > I'm still here on the list!

              Yay! I had figured/hoped you would be, so you could solve the
              mystery :^)

              > Glad you got those guys to spawn for you. And you got yellows, too!

              The yellows are kind of... meh, actually. Almost a lack of color
              rather than being yellow. Probably the nicest fish in the spawn are
              the white body/red fins (their bodies are *clean* white and the fins
              are a hot red; is there still a cambo/bicolor class?) but, dammit,
              they are female. The reds all look pretty red, so the orange ones
              were probably casualties of the damn velvet.

              > As for the taupe, that's probably caused by a darkish under-coat
              > that has come in while the red body color hasn't yet, or is yellow.
              > Especially for the females, the red can take a LONG time to come in.
              > I'm guessing, though, that since you're already seeing the red on
              > other females, they're dark bodied yellows -- and yellows should be
              > light-bodied fish. Since you crossed a dark-bodied red male with a
              > light-bodied yellow female, you'll get all different combinations of
              > those traits, and unfortunately dark bodies and yellow pigment on
              > the same fish makes a not very nice fish. The taupe ones are
              > probably not showable.

              That's kind of what I figured, except I didn't know about the blue
              iridescence. The Dad looks RED red to me, even under flashlight, but
              that's just phenotype. The taupe ones are kind of amusing, and
              somewhat pretty, but essentially rather of useless, yes? I don't want
              to spawn them, that's for sure. Anyone interested in a taupe fish or
              two? If I bring a couple to the holiday party, might anyone be
              interested?

              > Probably you can see it on the yellows too -- same effect of a light
              > body. If you want to continue the line, choose breeders with the
              > most solid red or light-bodied yellow (least butterfly), and the
              > least iridescence. Glad the finnage is good, at least!

              I'll have to see- thus far, the only one I'm certain for sure is a
              male is one of the taupe ones. The other taupe is probably male, but
              is taking a while. One of the yellows might be, but again, hard to
              say. Good fins on the taupe male, pretty nice on most of the females,
              but there are several that I can't tell if they are well-finned girls
              or shorter finned boys! Probably another by-product of having to
              spend so much energy fighting the stoopid velvet thing- stunted fin
              growth. And I'm having a hard time seeing egg spots on all but the
              most obvious ones. I wouldn't mind playing with this line, because
              damn, that Dad *still* looks spectacular after spawning twice- he's
              easily the best fish in my fish room, and could almost still be shown,
              his finnage is just that striking. Not sure what I'd spawn him with,
              though, given the taupe issues, and the lack of females excepting his
              daughters.

              The second spawn I used him for is one I did with a bizarre little
              girl I picked up at one of the meetings- she's a red, but has a layer
              of metallic that makes her look dark burgundy. Unfortunately, that
              appears to be translating into blue iridescence in the fry thus far-
              not showable, but pretty (and I'm all about the pretty anyway). So I
              may try him with one of those daughters, for kicks...

              > Didn't see a photo attached. Can you repost?

              I hadn't included a photo. May see if I can get one with iPhone or
              TinyCamera, but I'm not the best fish photographer.

              TTFN,
              June

            • June Delane
              ... The female died about a month ago (hierarchy wars in the sorority tank). I have two spawns from the male already- I think he could probably go one more,
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 2, 2010
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                On Dec 1, 2010, at 6:57 PM, Joe Cooper wrote:

                Can do the original spawn again?

                Or try the father back to one of the first spawn daughters.

                The female died about a month ago (hierarchy wars in the sorority tank).  I have two spawns from the male already- I think he could probably go one more, but I'm torn because I really don't want any more taupe fish *and* I tend to prefer not to spawn related fish.  

                Not sure what I'm going to do next, except that it won't be this month, and if things go the way I want, I probably won't have much time for spawning at the start of the year.  I *would* love to have some fish for Convention, though, so we'll see...

                TTFN,
                June

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