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Re: Engine/drivetrain list

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  • Paul Angel
    ... **************** Haven t been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don t think
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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      --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, John Brody
      <jbrody@g...> wrote:
      > FYI FWD Audis from the early 80's on were front engine, front-drive
      > with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual.
      > Move the entire drive-train to the back of a car and you've got a
      > sweet mid-engine rear-drive manual setup. I believe I have seen
      > websites where people adapted other engines to the Audi trans and
      > beefed up the internals, but I don't remember where right now. That
      > would save you the trouble of having to deal with fixing the center
      > diff of a 4WD Subaru -- although the Audis did come in 4WD as well,
      > they also came in 2WD.
      >
      > John
      ****************
      Haven't been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think
      I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don't think there
      is enough room in the Fiero. The Audi parts seem to be gold...
      ~ Paul
      aka "Tha Driver"

      Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!












      >
      >
      >
      > On 4/18/05, Paul Angel <imthadriver@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com,
      > > joe4@D...
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is
      there
      > > > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the
      engine
      > > over
      > > > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
      > > such as
      > > > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I
      can
      > > adapt
      > > > > a small-block to it.
      > > > *****
      > > > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back
      of a
      > > car you
      > > > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
      > > ***************
      > > Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine
      car
      > > to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
      > > Corvair.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > If I jack up my
      > > > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole
      side.
      > > The output
      > > > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
      > > little more
      > > > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
      > > behind the
      > > > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25°
      (assuming
      > > you don't
      > > > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get
      much
      > > of the
      > > > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space
      constraints
      > > keep the
      > > > engine pretty much over the axle.
      > > > ***
      > > > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
      > > projects.
      > > > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of
      the
      > > > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking
      of
      > > > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95
      which
      > > I
      > > > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather
      do a
      > > V8
      > > > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a
      clutch) so
      > > I
      > > > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
      > > > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero
      automatic
      > > (in
      > > > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
      > > Ferrari-
      > > > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a
      longitudinal
      > > V8).
      > > > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle
      for
      > > > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero.
      It's
      > > just
      > > > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
      > > car, &
      > > > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build
      one
      > > for
      > > > > him.
      > > > > Thanks,
      > > > ****
      > > > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
      > > shouldn't be
      > > > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front
      of
      > > the axle
      > > > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment,
      but I
      > > know
      > > > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
      > > small) then you could think
      > > > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you
      could
      > > look at
      > > > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but
      there is
      > > a
      > > > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look
      at)
      > > There
      > > > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans,
      just
      > > rotated
      > > > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may
      have
      > > had to
      > > > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can
      always
      > > just put
      > > > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
      > > >
      > > > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may
      be
      > > time for a
      > > > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
      > > *************
      > > Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle
      (in
      > > either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33"
      stretched
      > > Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front
      diffs
      > > are in the
      > > > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
      > > want. The
      > > > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there
      is
      > > a place
      > > > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
      > > **********
      > > My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that.
      I'm
      > > an artist, & a poor one at that.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Then if you ever wanted to add
      > > > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you
      could
      > > do the
      > > > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you
      some
      > > flexabilty,
      > > > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
      > > >
      > > > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with
      700+
      > > ft/lbs
      > > > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a
      5200
      > > pound
      > > > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
      > > ***************
      > > Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
      > > a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied
      car,
      > > but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as
      well.
      > > None of these will be FWD.
      > > On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW
      baja
      > > bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running
      gear
      > > reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive
      shafts,
      > > so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down.
      BTW
      > > when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you
      reverse
      > > the side the ring gear is on.
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > > ~ Paul
      > > > > aka "Tha Driver"
      > > >
      > > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
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      > >
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      > >
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      > >
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      Service.
    • William Lucke
      The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the transmission, then a planetary final. Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive Either
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 19, 2005
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        The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
        transmission, then a planetary final.
        Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
        Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final drive.

        Which Ferarri body?
        Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
        As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as well as
        the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago V8's put
        together)
        And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the stock
        engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
        I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I already
        mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and more
        efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.


        Will


        > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@...>
        >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
        >
        >
        >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
        >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
        > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
        > > applications?
        > >
        > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
        >drivetrain
        > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
        > >
        > >
        > > Will
        >**********
        >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
        >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
        >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to. I
        >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a transverse
        >engine.
        >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
        >~ Paul
        >aka "Tha Driver"
        >
        >Easy on the Giggle Cream!



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      • Paul Angel
        ... drive. ... well as ... V8 s put ... stock ... already ... more ... ************* Really? Never noticed that. The guy I m talking to has the 355 Ferrari;
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 19, 2005
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          --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
          Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
          > The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
          > transmission, then a planetary final.
          > Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
          > Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final
          drive.
          >
          > Which Ferarri body?
          > Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
          > As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as
          well as
          > the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago
          V8's put
          > together)
          > And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the
          stock
          > engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
          > I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I
          already
          > mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and
          more
          > efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.
          >
          >
          > Will
          *************
          Really? Never noticed that. The guy I'm talking to has the 355
          Ferrari; They're longitudinal V8s, Right?
          But strickly as art, the tranverse setups just don't appeal to me.
          I'm very eccentric, you know. (I'm an artist :-D
          ~ Paul
          aka "Tha Driver"

          Easy on the Giggle Cream!









          >
          >
          > > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@y...>
          > >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
          > >
          > >
          > >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
          > >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
          > > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in
          these
          > > > applications?
          > > >
          > > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
          > >drivetrain
          > > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Will
          > >**********
          > >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
          > >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
          > >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to.
          I
          > >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a
          transverse
          > >engine.
          > >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
          > >~ Paul
          > >aka "Tha Driver"
          > >
          > >Easy on the Giggle Cream!
          >
          >
          >
          > --
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          > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
          > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date:
          4/19/2005
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