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Re: Engine/drivetrain list

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  • Paul Angel
    ... drivetrain ... ********** Well, I m an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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      --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
      Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
      > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
      > applications?
      >
      > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
      drivetrain
      > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
      >
      >
      > Will
      **********
      Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
      they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
      case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to. I
      don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a transverse
      engine.
      Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
      ~ Paul
      aka "Tha Driver"

      Easy on the Giggle Cream!









      >
      >
      >
      > > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@y...>
      > >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
      >
      > >All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
      > >seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
      over
      > >the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such
      as
      > >Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
      adapt
      > >a small-block to it.
      > >As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
      projects.
      > >One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
      > >work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
      > >using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
      > >have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
      V8
      > >longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
      > >can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
      > >Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
      (in
      > >which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
      > >bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
      V8).
      > >I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
      > >that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
      just
      > >in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car,
      &
      > >am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
      > >him.
      > >Thanks,
      > >~ Paul
      > >aka "Tha Driver"
      > >
      > >Easy on the Giggle Cream!
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > No virus found in this outgoing message.
      > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date:
      4/16/2005
    • Preston III
      LOL, you don t need 700 horsepower to smoke the front wheels in a FWD car! I ve got a 65 horsepower 84 Ford Escort that will SMOKE the tires! And it ll turn
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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        LOL, you don't need 700 horsepower to smoke the front
        wheels in a FWD car! I've got a 65 horsepower '84
        Ford Escort that will SMOKE the tires! And it'll turn
        6000 RPM.

        LOL, gotta love that weight transfer OFF the front
        tires during acceleration and cornering!

        Preston III

        --- joe4@... wrote:
        > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad
        > engine with 700+ ft/lbs
        > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun
        > to drive a 5200 pound
        > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...


        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

        When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything You gave me."

        Preston, Tim, or Mr Bond. . . . They're all me!



        __________________________________
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      • Paul Angel
        ... over ... such as ... adapt ... car you ... *************** Yeah, it s kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car to have the entire engine
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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          --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
          wrote:
          >
          > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
          > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
          over
          > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
          such as
          > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
          adapt
          > > a small-block to it.
          > *****
          > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a
          car you
          > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
          ***************
          Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car
          to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
          Corvair.


          If I jack up my
          > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side.
          The output
          > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
          little more
          > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
          behind the
          > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming
          you don't
          > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much
          of the
          > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints
          keep the
          > engine pretty much over the axle.
          > ***
          > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
          projects.
          > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
          > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
          > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which
          I
          > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
          V8
          > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so
          I
          > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
          > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
          (in
          > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
          Ferrari-
          > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
          V8).
          > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
          > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
          just
          > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
          car, &
          > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one
          for
          > > him.
          > > Thanks,
          > ****
          > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
          shouldn't be
          > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of
          the axle
          > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I
          know
          > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
          small) then you could think
          > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could
          look at
          > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is
          a
          > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at)
          There
          > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just
          rotated
          > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have
          had to
          > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always
          just put
          > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
          >
          > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be
          time for a
          > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
          *************
          Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle (in
          either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33" stretched
          Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.


          >
          > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs
          are in the
          > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
          want. The
          > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is
          a place
          > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
          **********
          My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that. I'm
          an artist, & a poor one at that.




          Then if you ever wanted to add
          > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could
          do the
          > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some
          flexabilty,
          > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
          >
          > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+
          ft/lbs
          > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200
          pound
          > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
          ***************
          Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
          a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied car,
          but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as well.
          None of these will be FWD.
          On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW baja
          bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running gear
          reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive shafts,
          so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down. BTW
          when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you reverse
          the side the ring gear is on.


          >
          > > ~ Paul
          > > aka "Tha Driver"
          >
          > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
          >
          >
          >
          > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
        • John Brody
          FYI FWD Audis from the early 80 s on were front engine, front-drive with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual. Move the entire
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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            FYI FWD Audis from the early 80's on were front engine, front-drive
            with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual.
            Move the entire drive-train to the back of a car and you've got a
            sweet mid-engine rear-drive manual setup. I believe I have seen
            websites where people adapted other engines to the Audi trans and
            beefed up the internals, but I don't remember where right now. That
            would save you the trouble of having to deal with fixing the center
            diff of a 4WD Subaru -- although the Audis did come in 4WD as well,
            they also came in 2WD.

            John



            On 4/18/05, Paul Angel <imthadriver@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com,
            > joe4@D...
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
            > > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
            > over
            > > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
            > such as
            > > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
            > adapt
            > > > a small-block to it.
            > > *****
            > > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a
            > car you
            > > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
            > ***************
            > Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car
            > to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
            > Corvair.
            >
            >
            >
            > If I jack up my
            > > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side.
            > The output
            > > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
            > little more
            > > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
            > behind the
            > > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming
            > you don't
            > > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much
            > of the
            > > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints
            > keep the
            > > engine pretty much over the axle.
            > > ***
            > > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
            > projects.
            > > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
            > > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
            > > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which
            > I
            > > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
            > V8
            > > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so
            > I
            > > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
            > > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
            > (in
            > > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
            > Ferrari-
            > > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
            > V8).
            > > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
            > > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
            > just
            > > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
            > car, &
            > > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one
            > for
            > > > him.
            > > > Thanks,
            > > ****
            > > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
            > shouldn't be
            > > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of
            > the axle
            > > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I
            > know
            > > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
            > small) then you could think
            > > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could
            > look at
            > > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is
            > a
            > > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at)
            > There
            > > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just
            > rotated
            > > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have
            > had to
            > > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always
            > just put
            > > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
            > >
            > > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be
            > time for a
            > > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
            > *************
            > Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle (in
            > either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33" stretched
            > Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs
            > are in the
            > > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
            > want. The
            > > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is
            > a place
            > > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
            > **********
            > My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that. I'm
            > an artist, & a poor one at that.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Then if you ever wanted to add
            > > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could
            > do the
            > > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some
            > flexabilty,
            > > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
            > >
            > > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+
            > ft/lbs
            > > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200
            > pound
            > > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
            > ***************
            > Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
            > a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied car,
            > but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as well.
            > None of these will be FWD.
            > On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW baja
            > bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running gear
            > reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive shafts,
            > so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down. BTW
            > when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you reverse
            > the side the ring gear is on.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > > ~ Paul
            > > > aka "Tha Driver"
            > >
            > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_Performance_Association/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > Cadillac_Performance_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Paul Angel
            ... **************** Haven t been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don t think
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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              --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, John Brody
              <jbrody@g...> wrote:
              > FYI FWD Audis from the early 80's on were front engine, front-drive
              > with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual.
              > Move the entire drive-train to the back of a car and you've got a
              > sweet mid-engine rear-drive manual setup. I believe I have seen
              > websites where people adapted other engines to the Audi trans and
              > beefed up the internals, but I don't remember where right now. That
              > would save you the trouble of having to deal with fixing the center
              > diff of a 4WD Subaru -- although the Audis did come in 4WD as well,
              > they also came in 2WD.
              >
              > John
              ****************
              Haven't been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think
              I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don't think there
              is enough room in the Fiero. The Audi parts seem to be gold...
              ~ Paul
              aka "Tha Driver"

              Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!












              >
              >
              >
              > On 4/18/05, Paul Angel <imthadriver@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com,
              > > joe4@D...
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is
              there
              > > > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the
              engine
              > > over
              > > > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
              > > such as
              > > > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I
              can
              > > adapt
              > > > > a small-block to it.
              > > > *****
              > > > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back
              of a
              > > car you
              > > > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
              > > ***************
              > > Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine
              car
              > > to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
              > > Corvair.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > If I jack up my
              > > > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole
              side.
              > > The output
              > > > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
              > > little more
              > > > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
              > > behind the
              > > > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25°
              (assuming
              > > you don't
              > > > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get
              much
              > > of the
              > > > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space
              constraints
              > > keep the
              > > > engine pretty much over the axle.
              > > > ***
              > > > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
              > > projects.
              > > > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of
              the
              > > > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking
              of
              > > > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95
              which
              > > I
              > > > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather
              do a
              > > V8
              > > > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a
              clutch) so
              > > I
              > > > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
              > > > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero
              automatic
              > > (in
              > > > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
              > > Ferrari-
              > > > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a
              longitudinal
              > > V8).
              > > > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle
              for
              > > > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero.
              It's
              > > just
              > > > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
              > > car, &
              > > > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build
              one
              > > for
              > > > > him.
              > > > > Thanks,
              > > > ****
              > > > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
              > > shouldn't be
              > > > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front
              of
              > > the axle
              > > > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment,
              but I
              > > know
              > > > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
              > > small) then you could think
              > > > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you
              could
              > > look at
              > > > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but
              there is
              > > a
              > > > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look
              at)
              > > There
              > > > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans,
              just
              > > rotated
              > > > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may
              have
              > > had to
              > > > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can
              always
              > > just put
              > > > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
              > > >
              > > > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may
              be
              > > time for a
              > > > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
              > > *************
              > > Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle
              (in
              > > either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33"
              stretched
              > > Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front
              diffs
              > > are in the
              > > > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
              > > want. The
              > > > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there
              is
              > > a place
              > > > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
              > > **********
              > > My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that.
              I'm
              > > an artist, & a poor one at that.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Then if you ever wanted to add
              > > > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you
              could
              > > do the
              > > > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you
              some
              > > flexabilty,
              > > > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
              > > >
              > > > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with
              700+
              > > ft/lbs
              > > > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a
              5200
              > > pound
              > > > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
              > > ***************
              > > Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
              > > a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied
              car,
              > > but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as
              well.
              > > None of these will be FWD.
              > > On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW
              baja
              > > bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running
              gear
              > > reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive
              shafts,
              > > so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down.
              BTW
              > > when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you
              reverse
              > > the side the ring gear is on.
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > > ~ Paul
              > > > > aka "Tha Driver"
              > > >
              > > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_Performance_Association/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > Cadillac_Performance_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
            • William Lucke
              The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the transmission, then a planetary final. Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive Either
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 19, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
                transmission, then a planetary final.
                Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
                Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final drive.

                Which Ferarri body?
                Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
                As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as well as
                the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago V8's put
                together)
                And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the stock
                engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
                I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I already
                mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and more
                efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.


                Will


                > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@...>
                >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
                >
                >
                >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
                > > applications?
                > >
                > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
                >drivetrain
                > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
                > >
                > >
                > > Will
                >**********
                >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
                >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
                >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to. I
                >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a transverse
                >engine.
                >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
                >~ Paul
                >aka "Tha Driver"
                >
                >Easy on the Giggle Cream!



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              • Paul Angel
                ... drive. ... well as ... V8 s put ... stock ... already ... more ... ************* Really? Never noticed that. The guy I m talking to has the 355 Ferrari;
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 19, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                  Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                  > The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
                  > transmission, then a planetary final.
                  > Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
                  > Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final
                  drive.
                  >
                  > Which Ferarri body?
                  > Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
                  > As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as
                  well as
                  > the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago
                  V8's put
                  > together)
                  > And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the
                  stock
                  > engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
                  > I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I
                  already
                  > mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and
                  more
                  > efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.
                  >
                  >
                  > Will
                  *************
                  Really? Never noticed that. The guy I'm talking to has the 355
                  Ferrari; They're longitudinal V8s, Right?
                  But strickly as art, the tranverse setups just don't appeal to me.
                  I'm very eccentric, you know. (I'm an artist :-D
                  ~ Paul
                  aka "Tha Driver"

                  Easy on the Giggle Cream!









                  >
                  >
                  > > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@y...>
                  > >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                  > >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                  > > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in
                  these
                  > > > applications?
                  > > >
                  > > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
                  > >drivetrain
                  > > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Will
                  > >**********
                  > >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
                  > >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
                  > >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to.
                  I
                  > >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a
                  transverse
                  > >engine.
                  > >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
                  > >~ Paul
                  > >aka "Tha Driver"
                  > >
                  > >Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date:
                  4/19/2005
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