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Re: [Cadillac_Performance_Association] Re: Engine/drivetrain list

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  • RGermain
    Maybe someplace like Advance adapters has what you need??? ... That s ... 500ft/lbs ... stuffed into, ... pickup) ... fussy ... make power ... getting close
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 17, 2005
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      Maybe someplace like Advance adapters has what you need???

      Paul Angel <imthadriver@...> wrote:

      --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
      wrote:
      >
      >     As far as I know there is no manual counterpart to the THM425.
      That's
      > the trans that makes all this fun. Stock they can handle more than
      500ft/lbs
      > of torque, and the whole package is still small enough to be
      stuffed into,
      > say, the back seat of a yugo (or in my project, the back of a mazda
      pickup)
      >
      >     This really isn't the drivetrain I'd pick for a small nimble
      fussy
      > sports car. For that you want something small and light that can
      make power
      > by spinning fast. A Cad 500 (or Olds 455) and THM425 combo is
      getting close
      > to half a ton. But they are reliable and cheap and can make big
      torque while
      > getting decent milage. So put it in something that wants to do
      wheelies. You
      > don't want to bother shifting when the front end is up in the air,
      anyway.
      >
      >     Really it shouldn't be too hard to set up a THM425 for full
      manual
      > control, if it would feel better for you.
      >
      >     ...if you are not thinking big torque you might find something
      in a late
      > 90's mopar. And there's always the rear engined sports cars.
      >
      > Good Luck!
      ****************
      All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
      seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine over
      the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such as
      Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can adapt
      a small-block to it.
      As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several projects.
      One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
      work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
      using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
      have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a V8
      longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
      can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
      Also,  some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic (in
      which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
      bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal V8).
      I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
      that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's just
      in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car, &
      am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
      him.
      Thanks,
      ~ Paul
      aka "Tha Driver"

      Easy on the Giggle Cream!







      >
      >
      > > One more question: was there ever a 4 or 5-speed (manual)
      > > longitudinal trans in the FWD Caddies?
      > > Thanks again,
      > > ~ Paul
      > > aka "Tha Driver"
      >
      > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
      >
      > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz





    • Paul Angel
      ... *********** Adaptors are not a problem. You can find most anything, & if not I can make one (or have it made if need be). The problem is finding a
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 17, 2005
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        --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, RGermain
        <rich_germain@y...> wrote:
        > Maybe someplace like Advance adapters has what you need???
        ***********
        Adaptors are not a problem. You can find most anything, & if not I
        can make one (or have it made if need be).
        The problem is finding a transaxle I can use with very little
        money. :-p Thus the reason for determining every possibility &
        option in order to keep an eye out for the right car/deal.
        And of course finding the manual trans that fits longitudinaly in a
        tight space - that's the biggest challenge.
        ~ Paul
        aka "Tha Driver"

        Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!







        >
        > Paul Angel <imthadriver@y...> wrote:
        > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > As far as I know there is no manual counterpart to the
        THM425.
        > That's
        > > the trans that makes all this fun. Stock they can handle more
        than
        > 500ft/lbs
        > > of torque, and the whole package is still small enough to be
        > stuffed into,
        > > say, the back seat of a yugo (or in my project, the back of a
        mazda
        > pickup)
        > >
        > > This really isn't the drivetrain I'd pick for a small nimble
        > fussy
        > > sports car. For that you want something small and light that can
        > make power
        > > by spinning fast. A Cad 500 (or Olds 455) and THM425 combo is
        > getting close
        > > to half a ton. But they are reliable and cheap and can make big
        > torque while
        > > getting decent milage. So put it in something that wants to do
        > wheelies. You
        > > don't want to bother shifting when the front end is up in the
        air,
        > anyway.
        > >
        > > Really it shouldn't be too hard to set up a THM425 for full
        > manual
        > > control, if it would feel better for you.
        > >
        > > ...if you are not thinking big torque you might find
        something
        > in a late
        > > 90's mopar. And there's always the rear engined sports cars.
        > >
        > > Good Luck!
        > ****************
        > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
        > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
        over
        > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such
        as
        > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
        adapt
        > a small-block to it.
        > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
        projects.
        > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
        > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
        > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
        > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
        V8
        > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
        > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
        > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
        (in
        > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
        > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
        V8).
        > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
        > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
        just
        > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car,
        &
        > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
        > him.
        > Thanks,
        > ~ Paul
        > aka "Tha Driver"
        >
        > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > > One more question: was there ever a 4 or 5-speed (manual)
        > > > longitudinal trans in the FWD Caddies?
        > > > Thanks again,
        > > > ~ Paul
        > > > aka "Tha Driver"
        > >
        > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
        > >
        > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
      • William Lucke
        Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these applications? Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less drivetrain loss
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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          Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
          applications?

          Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less drivetrain
          loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).


          Will



          > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@...>
          >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list

          >All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
          >seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine over
          >the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such as
          >Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can adapt
          >a small-block to it.
          >As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several projects.
          >One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
          >work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
          >using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
          >have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a V8
          >longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
          >can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
          >Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic (in
          >which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
          >bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal V8).
          >I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
          >that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's just
          >in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car, &
          >am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
          >him.
          >Thanks,
          >~ Paul
          >aka "Tha Driver"
          >
          >Easy on the Giggle Cream!



          --
          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
          Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date: 4/16/2005
        • joe4@DigArts.com
          ... Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a car you end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car. If I jack up my Mazdaillac
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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            > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
            > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine over
            > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such as
            > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can adapt
            > a small-block to it.

            Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a car you
            end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car. If I jack up my
            Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side. The output
            shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a little more
            than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff behind the
            axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming you don't
            want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much of the
            weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints keep the
            engine pretty much over the axle.

            > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several projects.
            > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
            > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
            > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
            > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a V8
            > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
            > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
            > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic (in
            > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
            > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal V8).
            > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
            > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's just
            > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car, &
            > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
            > him.
            > Thanks,

            Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque shouldn't be
            a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of the axle
            (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I know
            people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be small) then you could think
            about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could look at
            late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is a
            chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at) There
            were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just rotated
            180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have had to
            make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always just put
            a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...

            I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be time for a
            trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.

            ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs are in the
            trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you want. The
            stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is a place
            that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500. Then if you ever wanted to add
            another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could do the
            same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some flexabilty,
            the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.

            ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+ ft/lbs
            and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200 pound
            vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...

            > ~ Paul
            > aka "Tha Driver"

            > Easy on the Giggle Cream!



            Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
          • Paul Angel
            ... drivetrain ... ********** Well, I m an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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              --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
              Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
              > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
              > applications?
              >
              > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
              drivetrain
              > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
              >
              >
              > Will
              **********
              Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
              they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
              case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to. I
              don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a transverse
              engine.
              Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
              ~ Paul
              aka "Tha Driver"

              Easy on the Giggle Cream!









              >
              >
              >
              > > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@y...>
              > >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
              >
              > >All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
              > >seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
              over
              > >the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such
              as
              > >Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
              adapt
              > >a small-block to it.
              > >As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
              projects.
              > >One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
              > >work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
              > >using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
              > >have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
              V8
              > >longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
              > >can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
              > >Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
              (in
              > >which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
              > >bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
              V8).
              > >I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
              > >that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
              just
              > >in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car,
              &
              > >am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
              > >him.
              > >Thanks,
              > >~ Paul
              > >aka "Tha Driver"
              > >
              > >Easy on the Giggle Cream!
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > No virus found in this outgoing message.
              > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date:
              4/16/2005
            • Preston III
              LOL, you don t need 700 horsepower to smoke the front wheels in a FWD car! I ve got a 65 horsepower 84 Ford Escort that will SMOKE the tires! And it ll turn
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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                LOL, you don't need 700 horsepower to smoke the front
                wheels in a FWD car! I've got a 65 horsepower '84
                Ford Escort that will SMOKE the tires! And it'll turn
                6000 RPM.

                LOL, gotta love that weight transfer OFF the front
                tires during acceleration and cornering!

                Preston III

                --- joe4@... wrote:
                > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad
                > engine with 700+ ft/lbs
                > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun
                > to drive a 5200 pound
                > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...


                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

                When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything You gave me."

                Preston, Tim, or Mr Bond. . . . They're all me!



                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball.
                http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/
              • Paul Angel
                ... over ... such as ... adapt ... car you ... *************** Yeah, it s kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car to have the entire engine
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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                  --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                  > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
                  over
                  > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
                  such as
                  > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
                  adapt
                  > > a small-block to it.
                  > *****
                  > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a
                  car you
                  > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
                  ***************
                  Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car
                  to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
                  Corvair.


                  If I jack up my
                  > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side.
                  The output
                  > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
                  little more
                  > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
                  behind the
                  > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming
                  you don't
                  > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much
                  of the
                  > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints
                  keep the
                  > engine pretty much over the axle.
                  > ***
                  > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                  projects.
                  > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                  > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                  > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which
                  I
                  > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
                  V8
                  > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so
                  I
                  > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                  > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
                  (in
                  > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
                  Ferrari-
                  > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
                  V8).
                  > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                  > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
                  just
                  > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
                  car, &
                  > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one
                  for
                  > > him.
                  > > Thanks,
                  > ****
                  > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
                  shouldn't be
                  > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of
                  the axle
                  > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I
                  know
                  > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
                  small) then you could think
                  > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could
                  look at
                  > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is
                  a
                  > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at)
                  There
                  > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just
                  rotated
                  > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have
                  had to
                  > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always
                  just put
                  > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
                  >
                  > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be
                  time for a
                  > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
                  *************
                  Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle (in
                  either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33" stretched
                  Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.


                  >
                  > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs
                  are in the
                  > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
                  want. The
                  > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is
                  a place
                  > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
                  **********
                  My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that. I'm
                  an artist, & a poor one at that.




                  Then if you ever wanted to add
                  > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could
                  do the
                  > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some
                  flexabilty,
                  > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
                  >
                  > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+
                  ft/lbs
                  > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200
                  pound
                  > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
                  ***************
                  Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
                  a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied car,
                  but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as well.
                  None of these will be FWD.
                  On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW baja
                  bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running gear
                  reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive shafts,
                  so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down. BTW
                  when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you reverse
                  the side the ring gear is on.


                  >
                  > > ~ Paul
                  > > aka "Tha Driver"
                  >
                  > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                • John Brody
                  FYI FWD Audis from the early 80 s on were front engine, front-drive with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual. Move the entire
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
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                    FYI FWD Audis from the early 80's on were front engine, front-drive
                    with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual.
                    Move the entire drive-train to the back of a car and you've got a
                    sweet mid-engine rear-drive manual setup. I believe I have seen
                    websites where people adapted other engines to the Audi trans and
                    beefed up the internals, but I don't remember where right now. That
                    would save you the trouble of having to deal with fixing the center
                    diff of a 4WD Subaru -- although the Audis did come in 4WD as well,
                    they also came in 2WD.

                    John



                    On 4/18/05, Paul Angel <imthadriver@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com,
                    > joe4@D...
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                    > > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
                    > over
                    > > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
                    > such as
                    > > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
                    > adapt
                    > > > a small-block to it.
                    > > *****
                    > > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a
                    > car you
                    > > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
                    > ***************
                    > Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car
                    > to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
                    > Corvair.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > If I jack up my
                    > > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side.
                    > The output
                    > > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
                    > little more
                    > > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
                    > behind the
                    > > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming
                    > you don't
                    > > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much
                    > of the
                    > > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints
                    > keep the
                    > > engine pretty much over the axle.
                    > > ***
                    > > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                    > projects.
                    > > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                    > > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                    > > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which
                    > I
                    > > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
                    > V8
                    > > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so
                    > I
                    > > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                    > > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
                    > (in
                    > > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
                    > Ferrari-
                    > > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
                    > V8).
                    > > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                    > > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
                    > just
                    > > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
                    > car, &
                    > > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one
                    > for
                    > > > him.
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > ****
                    > > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
                    > shouldn't be
                    > > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of
                    > the axle
                    > > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I
                    > know
                    > > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
                    > small) then you could think
                    > > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could
                    > look at
                    > > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is
                    > a
                    > > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at)
                    > There
                    > > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just
                    > rotated
                    > > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have
                    > had to
                    > > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always
                    > just put
                    > > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
                    > >
                    > > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be
                    > time for a
                    > > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
                    > *************
                    > Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle (in
                    > either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33" stretched
                    > Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs
                    > are in the
                    > > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
                    > want. The
                    > > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is
                    > a place
                    > > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
                    > **********
                    > My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that. I'm
                    > an artist, & a poor one at that.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Then if you ever wanted to add
                    > > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could
                    > do the
                    > > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some
                    > flexabilty,
                    > > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
                    > >
                    > > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+
                    > ft/lbs
                    > > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200
                    > pound
                    > > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
                    > ***************
                    > Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
                    > a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied car,
                    > but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as well.
                    > None of these will be FWD.
                    > On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW baja
                    > bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running gear
                    > reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive shafts,
                    > so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down. BTW
                    > when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you reverse
                    > the side the ring gear is on.
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > > ~ Paul
                    > > > aka "Tha Driver"
                    > >
                    > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_Performance_Association/
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > Cadillac_Performance_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • Paul Angel
                    ... **************** Haven t been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don t think
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 18, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, John Brody
                      <jbrody@g...> wrote:
                      > FYI FWD Audis from the early 80's on were front engine, front-drive
                      > with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual.
                      > Move the entire drive-train to the back of a car and you've got a
                      > sweet mid-engine rear-drive manual setup. I believe I have seen
                      > websites where people adapted other engines to the Audi trans and
                      > beefed up the internals, but I don't remember where right now. That
                      > would save you the trouble of having to deal with fixing the center
                      > diff of a 4WD Subaru -- although the Audis did come in 4WD as well,
                      > they also came in 2WD.
                      >
                      > John
                      ****************
                      Haven't been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think
                      I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don't think there
                      is enough room in the Fiero. The Audi parts seem to be gold...
                      ~ Paul
                      aka "Tha Driver"

                      Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!












                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 4/18/05, Paul Angel <imthadriver@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > joe4@D...
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is
                      there
                      > > > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the
                      engine
                      > > over
                      > > > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
                      > > such as
                      > > > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I
                      can
                      > > adapt
                      > > > > a small-block to it.
                      > > > *****
                      > > > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back
                      of a
                      > > car you
                      > > > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
                      > > ***************
                      > > Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine
                      car
                      > > to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
                      > > Corvair.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > If I jack up my
                      > > > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole
                      side.
                      > > The output
                      > > > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
                      > > little more
                      > > > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
                      > > behind the
                      > > > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25°
                      (assuming
                      > > you don't
                      > > > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get
                      much
                      > > of the
                      > > > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space
                      constraints
                      > > keep the
                      > > > engine pretty much over the axle.
                      > > > ***
                      > > > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                      > > projects.
                      > > > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of
                      the
                      > > > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking
                      of
                      > > > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95
                      which
                      > > I
                      > > > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather
                      do a
                      > > V8
                      > > > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a
                      clutch) so
                      > > I
                      > > > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                      > > > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero
                      automatic
                      > > (in
                      > > > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
                      > > Ferrari-
                      > > > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a
                      longitudinal
                      > > V8).
                      > > > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle
                      for
                      > > > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero.
                      It's
                      > > just
                      > > > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
                      > > car, &
                      > > > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build
                      one
                      > > for
                      > > > > him.
                      > > > > Thanks,
                      > > > ****
                      > > > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
                      > > shouldn't be
                      > > > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front
                      of
                      > > the axle
                      > > > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment,
                      but I
                      > > know
                      > > > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
                      > > small) then you could think
                      > > > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you
                      could
                      > > look at
                      > > > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but
                      there is
                      > > a
                      > > > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look
                      at)
                      > > There
                      > > > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans,
                      just
                      > > rotated
                      > > > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may
                      have
                      > > had to
                      > > > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can
                      always
                      > > just put
                      > > > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
                      > > >
                      > > > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may
                      be
                      > > time for a
                      > > > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
                      > > *************
                      > > Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle
                      (in
                      > > either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33"
                      stretched
                      > > Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front
                      diffs
                      > > are in the
                      > > > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
                      > > want. The
                      > > > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there
                      is
                      > > a place
                      > > > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
                      > > **********
                      > > My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that.
                      I'm
                      > > an artist, & a poor one at that.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Then if you ever wanted to add
                      > > > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you
                      could
                      > > do the
                      > > > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you
                      some
                      > > flexabilty,
                      > > > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
                      > > >
                      > > > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with
                      700+
                      > > ft/lbs
                      > > > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a
                      5200
                      > > pound
                      > > > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
                      > > ***************
                      > > Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
                      > > a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied
                      car,
                      > > but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as
                      well.
                      > > None of these will be FWD.
                      > > On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW
                      baja
                      > > bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running
                      gear
                      > > reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive
                      shafts,
                      > > so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down.
                      BTW
                      > > when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you
                      reverse
                      > > the side the ring gear is on.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > ~ Paul
                      > > > > aka "Tha Driver"
                      > > >
                      > > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_Performance_Association/
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > Cadillac_Performance_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                    • William Lucke
                      The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the transmission, then a planetary final. Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive Either
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 19, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
                        transmission, then a planetary final.
                        Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
                        Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final drive.

                        Which Ferarri body?
                        Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
                        As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as well as
                        the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago V8's put
                        together)
                        And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the stock
                        engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
                        I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I already
                        mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and more
                        efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.


                        Will


                        > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@...>
                        >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
                        >
                        >
                        >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                        >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                        > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
                        > > applications?
                        > >
                        > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
                        >drivetrain
                        > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Will
                        >**********
                        >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
                        >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
                        >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to. I
                        >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a transverse
                        >engine.
                        >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
                        >~ Paul
                        >aka "Tha Driver"
                        >
                        >Easy on the Giggle Cream!



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                      • Paul Angel
                        ... drive. ... well as ... V8 s put ... stock ... already ... more ... ************* Really? Never noticed that. The guy I m talking to has the 355 Ferrari;
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 19, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                          Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                          > The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
                          > transmission, then a planetary final.
                          > Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
                          > Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final
                          drive.
                          >
                          > Which Ferarri body?
                          > Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
                          > As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as
                          well as
                          > the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago
                          V8's put
                          > together)
                          > And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the
                          stock
                          > engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
                          > I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I
                          already
                          > mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and
                          more
                          > efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.
                          >
                          >
                          > Will
                          *************
                          Really? Never noticed that. The guy I'm talking to has the 355
                          Ferrari; They're longitudinal V8s, Right?
                          But strickly as art, the tranverse setups just don't appeal to me.
                          I'm very eccentric, you know. (I'm an artist :-D
                          ~ Paul
                          aka "Tha Driver"

                          Easy on the Giggle Cream!









                          >
                          >
                          > > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@y...>
                          > >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                          > >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                          > > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in
                          these
                          > > > applications?
                          > > >
                          > > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
                          > >drivetrain
                          > > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Will
                          > >**********
                          > >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
                          > >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
                          > >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to.
                          I
                          > >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a
                          transverse
                          > >engine.
                          > >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
                          > >~ Paul
                          > >aka "Tha Driver"
                          > >
                          > >Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          4/19/2005
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