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Re: Engine/drivetrain list

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  • Paul Angel
    ... called ... specific ... they do not ... the $50-$60 ... have had ... is still ... with - ... ************** Thanks, Do they say specificly if - for
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 17 11:06 AM
      --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, "Tom
      McKenna" <TRAVELER@N...> wrote:
      > You can buy copies of the older Hollanders on Ebay - they are
      called
      > Classic Search" Versions and are put out by Hollander - they cover
      specific
      > years - I have a 1946 -1956 edition and I use it all the time -
      they do not
      > cover every piece, but most of the main stuff and are well worth
      the $50-$60
      > investment - mine has paid for iltself many times over the years I
      have had
      > it.
      >
      > Check Ebay under "Hollander" - I think the fellow I got mine from
      is still
      > selling them there - He was based in Michigan and great to deal
      with -
      > unfortunately I have misplaced his particulars.
      >
      > Tom
      **************
      Thanks,
      Do they say specificly if - for instance - a FWD car is transverse or
      longitudinal? This is very important as I'm searching for drivetrains
      for a variety of cars/combinations (checking on different
      possibilities for my projects).
      ~ Paul
      aka "Tha Driver"

      Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!










      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > From: RGermain
      >
      > what you need is a Hollander Interchange manual
    • joe4@DigArts.com
      Before 67 RWD 67- 78 eldo FWD THM425 longitudal trans Cad engine of the year (472-500-425) 79- 85 eldo, 80-85 seville FWD THM325 3 or 4 speed longitudal
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 17 1:15 PM
        Before '67 RWD

        '67-'78 eldo FWD THM425 longitudal trans Cad engine of the year
        (472-500-425)

        '79-'85 eldo, '80-85 seville FWD THM325 3 or 4 speed longitudal trans
        various engines (Olds 350, 350 Desiel, buick V6?, cad 368, 4.1L)

        After that FWD was transverse with the THM440 or 4T80E and cad engine of
        the year (4.1L?, 4.5L, 4.9L, 4.6Northstar)

        ...don't know the caviler and opel based cadillacs....

        On 17-Apr-05, Paul Angel wrote:



        > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, "Tom
        > McKenna" <TRAVELER@N...> wrote:
        >> You can buy copies of the older Hollanders on Ebay - they are
        > called
        >> Classic Search" Versions and are put out by Hollander - they cover
        > specific
        >> years - I have a 1946 -1956 edition and I use it all the time -
        > they do not
        >> cover every piece, but most of the main stuff and are well worth
        > the $50-$60
        >> investment - mine has paid for iltself many times over the years I
        > have had
        >> it.
        >>
        >> Check Ebay under "Hollander" - I think the fellow I got mine from
        > is still
        >> selling them there - He was based in Michigan and great to deal
        > with -
        >> unfortunately I have misplaced his particulars.
        >>
        >> Tom
        > **************
        > Thanks,
        > Do they say specificly if - for instance - a FWD car is transverse or
        > longitudinal? This is very important as I'm searching for drivetrains
        > for a variety of cars/combinations (checking on different
        > possibilities for my projects).
        > ~ Paul
        > aka "Tha Driver"

        > Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!










        >>
        >> -------Original Message-------
        >>
        >> From: RGermain
        >>
        >> what you need is a Hollander Interchange manual






        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links



        >





        Regards
        --

        Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
      • Tom McKenna
        Not sure on that question, as my book only goes to 1956 - If I can remember, I will check the new editions out at my chum s wrecking yard and let you know. Tom
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 17 1:54 PM
          Not sure on that question, as my book only goes to 1956 - If I can remember, I will check the new editions out at my chum's wrecking yard and let you know.
           
          Tom 
           
           ,
          Do they say specificly if - for instance - a FWD car is transverse or
          longitudinal?
        • Paul Angel
          ... trans ... engine of ... ************* Thanks Joe (& others), That s the jist of what I need. I can now check cars as I find them for year, engine size,
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 17 3:36 PM
            --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
            wrote:
            >
            > Before '67 RWD
            >
            > '67-'78 eldo FWD THM425 longitudal trans Cad engine of the year
            > (472-500-425)
            >
            > '79-'85 eldo, '80-85 seville FWD THM325 3 or 4 speed longitudal
            trans
            > various engines (Olds 350, 350 Desiel, buick V6?, cad 368, 4.1L)
            >
            > After that FWD was transverse with the THM440 or 4T80E and cad
            engine of
            > the year (4.1L?, 4.5L, 4.9L, 4.6Northstar)
            >
            > ...don't know the caviler and opel based cadillacs....
            *************
            Thanks Joe (& others),
            That's the jist of what I need. I can now check cars as I find them
            for year, engine size, etc.
            One more question: was there ever a 4 or 5-speed (manual)
            longitudinal trans in the FWD Caddies?
            Thanks again,
            ~ Paul
            aka "Tha Driver"

            Easy on the Giggle Cream!





            >
            > On 17-Apr-05, Paul Angel wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, "Tom
            > > McKenna" <TRAVELER@N...> wrote:
            > >> You can buy copies of the older Hollanders on Ebay - they are
            > > called
            > >> Classic Search" Versions and are put out by Hollander - they
            cover
            > > specific
            > >> years - I have a 1946 -1956 edition and I use it all the time -
            > > they do not
            > >> cover every piece, but most of the main stuff and are well worth
            > > the $50-$60
            > >> investment - mine has paid for iltself many times over the years
            I
            > > have had
            > >> it.
            > >>
            > >> Check Ebay under "Hollander" - I think the fellow I got mine
            from
            > > is still
            > >> selling them there - He was based in Michigan and great to deal
            > > with -
            > >> unfortunately I have misplaced his particulars.
            > >>
            > >> Tom
            > > **************
            > > Thanks,
            > > Do they say specificly if - for instance - a FWD car is
            transverse or
            > > longitudinal? This is very important as I'm searching for
            drivetrains
            > > for a variety of cars/combinations (checking on different
            > > possibilities for my projects).
            > > ~ Paul
            > > aka "Tha Driver"
            >
            > > Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>
            > >> -------Original Message-------
            > >>
            > >> From: RGermain
            > >>
            > >> what you need is a Hollander Interchange manual
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Regards
            > --
            >
            > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
          • joe4@DigArts.com
            As far as I know there is no manual counterpart to the THM425. That s the trans that makes all this fun. Stock they can handle more than 500ft/lbs of torque,
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 17 4:37 PM
              As far as I know there is no manual counterpart to the THM425. That's
              the trans that makes all this fun. Stock they can handle more than 500ft/lbs
              of torque, and the whole package is still small enough to be stuffed into,
              say, the back seat of a yugo (or in my project, the back of a mazda pickup)

              This really isn't the drivetrain I'd pick for a small nimble fussy
              sports car. For that you want something small and light that can make power
              by spinning fast. A Cad 500 (or Olds 455) and THM425 combo is getting close
              to half a ton. But they are reliable and cheap and can make big torque while
              getting decent milage. So put it in something that wants to do wheelies. You
              don't want to bother shifting when the front end is up in the air, anyway.

              Really it shouldn't be too hard to set up a THM425 for full manual
              control, if it would feel better for you.

              ...if you are not thinking big torque you might find something in a late
              90's mopar. And there's always the rear engined sports cars.

              Good Luck!


              > One more question: was there ever a 4 or 5-speed (manual)
              > longitudinal trans in the FWD Caddies?
              > Thanks again,
              > ~ Paul
              > aka "Tha Driver"

              > Easy on the Giggle Cream!

              Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
            • Paul Angel
              ... That s ... 500ft/lbs ... stuffed into, ... pickup) ... fussy ... make power ... getting close ... torque while ... wheelies. You ... anyway. ... manual ...
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 17 5:59 PM
                --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
                wrote:
                >
                > As far as I know there is no manual counterpart to the THM425.
                That's
                > the trans that makes all this fun. Stock they can handle more than
                500ft/lbs
                > of torque, and the whole package is still small enough to be
                stuffed into,
                > say, the back seat of a yugo (or in my project, the back of a mazda
                pickup)
                >
                > This really isn't the drivetrain I'd pick for a small nimble
                fussy
                > sports car. For that you want something small and light that can
                make power
                > by spinning fast. A Cad 500 (or Olds 455) and THM425 combo is
                getting close
                > to half a ton. But they are reliable and cheap and can make big
                torque while
                > getting decent milage. So put it in something that wants to do
                wheelies. You
                > don't want to bother shifting when the front end is up in the air,
                anyway.
                >
                > Really it shouldn't be too hard to set up a THM425 for full
                manual
                > control, if it would feel better for you.
                >
                > ...if you are not thinking big torque you might find something
                in a late
                > 90's mopar. And there's always the rear engined sports cars.
                >
                > Good Luck!
                ****************
                All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine over
                the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such as
                Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can adapt
                a small-block to it.
                As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several projects.
                One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
                have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a V8
                longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
                can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic (in
                which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
                bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal V8).
                I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's just
                in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car, &
                am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
                him.
                Thanks,
                ~ Paul
                aka "Tha Driver"

                Easy on the Giggle Cream!







                >
                >
                > > One more question: was there ever a 4 or 5-speed (manual)
                > > longitudinal trans in the FWD Caddies?
                > > Thanks again,
                > > ~ Paul
                > > aka "Tha Driver"
                >
                > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                >
                > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
              • RGermain
                Maybe someplace like Advance adapters has what you need??? ... That s ... 500ft/lbs ... stuffed into, ... pickup) ... fussy ... make power ... getting close
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 17 6:27 PM
                  Maybe someplace like Advance adapters has what you need???

                  Paul Angel <imthadriver@...> wrote:

                  --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >     As far as I know there is no manual counterpart to the THM425.
                  That's
                  > the trans that makes all this fun. Stock they can handle more than
                  500ft/lbs
                  > of torque, and the whole package is still small enough to be
                  stuffed into,
                  > say, the back seat of a yugo (or in my project, the back of a mazda
                  pickup)
                  >
                  >     This really isn't the drivetrain I'd pick for a small nimble
                  fussy
                  > sports car. For that you want something small and light that can
                  make power
                  > by spinning fast. A Cad 500 (or Olds 455) and THM425 combo is
                  getting close
                  > to half a ton. But they are reliable and cheap and can make big
                  torque while
                  > getting decent milage. So put it in something that wants to do
                  wheelies. You
                  > don't want to bother shifting when the front end is up in the air,
                  anyway.
                  >
                  >     Really it shouldn't be too hard to set up a THM425 for full
                  manual
                  > control, if it would feel better for you.
                  >
                  >     ...if you are not thinking big torque you might find something
                  in a late
                  > 90's mopar. And there's always the rear engined sports cars.
                  >
                  > Good Luck!
                  ****************
                  All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                  seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine over
                  the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such as
                  Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can adapt
                  a small-block to it.
                  As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several projects.
                  One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                  work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                  using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
                  have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a V8
                  longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
                  can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                  Also,  some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic (in
                  which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
                  bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal V8).
                  I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                  that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's just
                  in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car, &
                  am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
                  him.
                  Thanks,
                  ~ Paul
                  aka "Tha Driver"

                  Easy on the Giggle Cream!







                  >
                  >
                  > > One more question: was there ever a 4 or 5-speed (manual)
                  > > longitudinal trans in the FWD Caddies?
                  > > Thanks again,
                  > > ~ Paul
                  > > aka "Tha Driver"
                  >
                  > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                  >
                  > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz





                • Paul Angel
                  ... *********** Adaptors are not a problem. You can find most anything, & if not I can make one (or have it made if need be). The problem is finding a
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 17 8:32 PM
                    --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, RGermain
                    <rich_germain@y...> wrote:
                    > Maybe someplace like Advance adapters has what you need???
                    ***********
                    Adaptors are not a problem. You can find most anything, & if not I
                    can make one (or have it made if need be).
                    The problem is finding a transaxle I can use with very little
                    money. :-p Thus the reason for determining every possibility &
                    option in order to keep an eye out for the right car/deal.
                    And of course finding the manual trans that fits longitudinaly in a
                    tight space - that's the biggest challenge.
                    ~ Paul
                    aka "Tha Driver"

                    Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!







                    >
                    > Paul Angel <imthadriver@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > As far as I know there is no manual counterpart to the
                    THM425.
                    > That's
                    > > the trans that makes all this fun. Stock they can handle more
                    than
                    > 500ft/lbs
                    > > of torque, and the whole package is still small enough to be
                    > stuffed into,
                    > > say, the back seat of a yugo (or in my project, the back of a
                    mazda
                    > pickup)
                    > >
                    > > This really isn't the drivetrain I'd pick for a small nimble
                    > fussy
                    > > sports car. For that you want something small and light that can
                    > make power
                    > > by spinning fast. A Cad 500 (or Olds 455) and THM425 combo is
                    > getting close
                    > > to half a ton. But they are reliable and cheap and can make big
                    > torque while
                    > > getting decent milage. So put it in something that wants to do
                    > wheelies. You
                    > > don't want to bother shifting when the front end is up in the
                    air,
                    > anyway.
                    > >
                    > > Really it shouldn't be too hard to set up a THM425 for full
                    > manual
                    > > control, if it would feel better for you.
                    > >
                    > > ...if you are not thinking big torque you might find
                    something
                    > in a late
                    > > 90's mopar. And there's always the rear engined sports cars.
                    > >
                    > > Good Luck!
                    > ****************
                    > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                    > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
                    over
                    > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such
                    as
                    > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
                    adapt
                    > a small-block to it.
                    > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                    projects.
                    > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                    > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                    > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
                    > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
                    V8
                    > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
                    > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                    > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
                    (in
                    > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
                    > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
                    V8).
                    > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                    > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
                    just
                    > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car,
                    &
                    > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
                    > him.
                    > Thanks,
                    > ~ Paul
                    > aka "Tha Driver"
                    >
                    > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > One more question: was there ever a 4 or 5-speed (manual)
                    > > > longitudinal trans in the FWD Caddies?
                    > > > Thanks again,
                    > > > ~ Paul
                    > > > aka "Tha Driver"
                    > >
                    > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                    > >
                    > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                  • William Lucke
                    Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these applications? Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less drivetrain loss
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 18 6:09 AM
                      Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
                      applications?

                      Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less drivetrain
                      loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).


                      Will



                      > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@...>
                      >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list

                      >All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                      >seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine over
                      >the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such as
                      >Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can adapt
                      >a small-block to it.
                      >As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several projects.
                      >One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                      >work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                      >using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
                      >have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a V8
                      >longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
                      >can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                      >Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic (in
                      >which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
                      >bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal V8).
                      >I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                      >that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's just
                      >in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car, &
                      >am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
                      >him.
                      >Thanks,
                      >~ Paul
                      >aka "Tha Driver"
                      >
                      >Easy on the Giggle Cream!



                      --
                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date: 4/16/2005
                    • joe4@DigArts.com
                      ... Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a car you end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car. If I jack up my Mazdaillac
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 18 7:53 AM
                        > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                        > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine over
                        > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such as
                        > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can adapt
                        > a small-block to it.

                        Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a car you
                        end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car. If I jack up my
                        Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side. The output
                        shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a little more
                        than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff behind the
                        axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming you don't
                        want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much of the
                        weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints keep the
                        engine pretty much over the axle.

                        > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several projects.
                        > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                        > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                        > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
                        > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a V8
                        > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
                        > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                        > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic (in
                        > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
                        > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal V8).
                        > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                        > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's just
                        > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car, &
                        > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
                        > him.
                        > Thanks,

                        Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque shouldn't be
                        a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of the axle
                        (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I know
                        people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be small) then you could think
                        about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could look at
                        late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is a
                        chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at) There
                        were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just rotated
                        180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have had to
                        make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always just put
                        a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...

                        I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be time for a
                        trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.

                        ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs are in the
                        trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you want. The
                        stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is a place
                        that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500. Then if you ever wanted to add
                        another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could do the
                        same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some flexabilty,
                        the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.

                        ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+ ft/lbs
                        and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200 pound
                        vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...

                        > ~ Paul
                        > aka "Tha Driver"

                        > Easy on the Giggle Cream!



                        Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                      • Paul Angel
                        ... drivetrain ... ********** Well, I m an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 18 9:02 AM
                          --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                          Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                          > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
                          > applications?
                          >
                          > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
                          drivetrain
                          > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
                          >
                          >
                          > Will
                          **********
                          Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
                          they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
                          case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to. I
                          don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a transverse
                          engine.
                          Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
                          ~ Paul
                          aka "Tha Driver"

                          Easy on the Giggle Cream!









                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@y...>
                          > >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
                          >
                          > >All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                          > >seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
                          over
                          > >the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics such
                          as
                          > >Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
                          adapt
                          > >a small-block to it.
                          > >As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                          projects.
                          > >One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                          > >work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                          > >using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which I
                          > >have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
                          V8
                          > >longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so I
                          > >can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                          > >Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
                          (in
                          > >which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a Ferrari-
                          > >bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
                          V8).
                          > >I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                          > >that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
                          just
                          > >in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the car,
                          &
                          > >am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one for
                          > >him.
                          > >Thanks,
                          > >~ Paul
                          > >aka "Tha Driver"
                          > >
                          > >Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                          > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date:
                          4/16/2005
                        • Preston III
                          LOL, you don t need 700 horsepower to smoke the front wheels in a FWD car! I ve got a 65 horsepower 84 Ford Escort that will SMOKE the tires! And it ll turn
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 18 9:02 AM
                            LOL, you don't need 700 horsepower to smoke the front
                            wheels in a FWD car! I've got a 65 horsepower '84
                            Ford Escort that will SMOKE the tires! And it'll turn
                            6000 RPM.

                            LOL, gotta love that weight transfer OFF the front
                            tires during acceleration and cornering!

                            Preston III

                            --- joe4@... wrote:
                            > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad
                            > engine with 700+ ft/lbs
                            > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun
                            > to drive a 5200 pound
                            > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...


                            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

                            When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything You gave me."

                            Preston, Tim, or Mr Bond. . . . They're all me!



                            __________________________________
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                          • Paul Angel
                            ... over ... such as ... adapt ... car you ... *************** Yeah, it s kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car to have the entire engine
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 18 9:16 AM
                              --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, joe4@D...
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                              > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
                              over
                              > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
                              such as
                              > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
                              adapt
                              > > a small-block to it.
                              > *****
                              > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a
                              car you
                              > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
                              ***************
                              Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car
                              to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
                              Corvair.


                              If I jack up my
                              > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side.
                              The output
                              > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
                              little more
                              > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
                              behind the
                              > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming
                              you don't
                              > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much
                              of the
                              > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints
                              keep the
                              > engine pretty much over the axle.
                              > ***
                              > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                              projects.
                              > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                              > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                              > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which
                              I
                              > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
                              V8
                              > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so
                              I
                              > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                              > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
                              (in
                              > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
                              Ferrari-
                              > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
                              V8).
                              > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                              > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
                              just
                              > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
                              car, &
                              > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one
                              for
                              > > him.
                              > > Thanks,
                              > ****
                              > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
                              shouldn't be
                              > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of
                              the axle
                              > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I
                              know
                              > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
                              small) then you could think
                              > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could
                              look at
                              > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is
                              a
                              > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at)
                              There
                              > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just
                              rotated
                              > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have
                              had to
                              > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always
                              just put
                              > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
                              >
                              > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be
                              time for a
                              > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
                              *************
                              Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle (in
                              either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33" stretched
                              Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.


                              >
                              > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs
                              are in the
                              > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
                              want. The
                              > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is
                              a place
                              > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
                              **********
                              My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that. I'm
                              an artist, & a poor one at that.




                              Then if you ever wanted to add
                              > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could
                              do the
                              > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some
                              flexabilty,
                              > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
                              >
                              > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+
                              ft/lbs
                              > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200
                              pound
                              > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
                              ***************
                              Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
                              a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied car,
                              but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as well.
                              None of these will be FWD.
                              On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW baja
                              bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running gear
                              reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive shafts,
                              so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down. BTW
                              when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you reverse
                              the side the ring gear is on.


                              >
                              > > ~ Paul
                              > > aka "Tha Driver"
                              >
                              > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                            • John Brody
                              FYI FWD Audis from the early 80 s on were front engine, front-drive with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual. Move the entire
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 18 11:10 AM
                                FYI FWD Audis from the early 80's on were front engine, front-drive
                                with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual.
                                Move the entire drive-train to the back of a car and you've got a
                                sweet mid-engine rear-drive manual setup. I believe I have seen
                                websites where people adapted other engines to the Audi trans and
                                beefed up the internals, but I don't remember where right now. That
                                would save you the trouble of having to deal with fixing the center
                                diff of a 4WD Subaru -- although the Audis did come in 4WD as well,
                                they also came in 2WD.

                                John



                                On 4/18/05, Paul Angel <imthadriver@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com,
                                > joe4@D...
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is there
                                > > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the engine
                                > over
                                > > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
                                > such as
                                > > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I can
                                > adapt
                                > > > a small-block to it.
                                > > *****
                                > > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back of a
                                > car you
                                > > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
                                > ***************
                                > Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine car
                                > to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
                                > Corvair.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > If I jack up my
                                > > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole side.
                                > The output
                                > > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
                                > little more
                                > > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
                                > behind the
                                > > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25° (assuming
                                > you don't
                                > > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get much
                                > of the
                                > > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space constraints
                                > keep the
                                > > engine pretty much over the axle.
                                > > ***
                                > > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                                > projects.
                                > > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of the
                                > > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking of
                                > > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95 which
                                > I
                                > > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather do a
                                > V8
                                > > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a clutch) so
                                > I
                                > > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                                > > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero automatic
                                > (in
                                > > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
                                > Ferrari-
                                > > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a longitudinal
                                > V8).
                                > > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle for
                                > > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero. It's
                                > just
                                > > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
                                > car, &
                                > > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build one
                                > for
                                > > > him.
                                > > > Thanks,
                                > > ****
                                > > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
                                > shouldn't be
                                > > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front of
                                > the axle
                                > > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment, but I
                                > know
                                > > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
                                > small) then you could think
                                > > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you could
                                > look at
                                > > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but there is
                                > a
                                > > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look at)
                                > There
                                > > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans, just
                                > rotated
                                > > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may have
                                > had to
                                > > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can always
                                > just put
                                > > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
                                > >
                                > > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may be
                                > time for a
                                > > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
                                > *************
                                > Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle (in
                                > either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33" stretched
                                > Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                > > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front diffs
                                > are in the
                                > > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
                                > want. The
                                > > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there is
                                > a place
                                > > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
                                > **********
                                > My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that. I'm
                                > an artist, & a poor one at that.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Then if you ever wanted to add
                                > > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you could
                                > do the
                                > > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you some
                                > flexabilty,
                                > > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
                                > >
                                > > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with 700+
                                > ft/lbs
                                > > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a 5200
                                > pound
                                > > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
                                > ***************
                                > Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
                                > a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied car,
                                > but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as well.
                                > None of these will be FWD.
                                > On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW baja
                                > bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running gear
                                > reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive shafts,
                                > so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down. BTW
                                > when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you reverse
                                > the side the ring gear is on.
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                > > > ~ Paul
                                > > > aka "Tha Driver"
                                > >
                                > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
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                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                              • Paul Angel
                                ... **************** Haven t been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don t think
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 18 12:29 PM
                                  --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, John Brody
                                  <jbrody@g...> wrote:
                                  > FYI FWD Audis from the early 80's on were front engine, front-drive
                                  > with (I believe) a longitudinal transmission that came in a manual.
                                  > Move the entire drive-train to the back of a car and you've got a
                                  > sweet mid-engine rear-drive manual setup. I believe I have seen
                                  > websites where people adapted other engines to the Audi trans and
                                  > beefed up the internals, but I don't remember where right now. That
                                  > would save you the trouble of having to deal with fixing the center
                                  > diff of a 4WD Subaru -- although the Audis did come in 4WD as well,
                                  > they also came in 2WD.
                                  >
                                  > John
                                  ****************
                                  Haven't been able to find a reasonably priced Audi transaxle. I think
                                  I could use that in the VW Cabriolet, though; but I don't think there
                                  is enough room in the Fiero. The Audi parts seem to be gold...
                                  ~ Paul
                                  aka "Tha Driver"

                                  Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!












                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 4/18/05, Paul Angel <imthadriver@y...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > > joe4@D...
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > All that makes a lot of sense. The reason I was asking, is
                                  there
                                  > > > > seems to be no mid-engine manual options that places the
                                  engine
                                  > > over
                                  > > > > the transaxle (with the exception of *very* expensive exotics
                                  > > such as
                                  > > > > Lambos). The manual would also weigh less than the auto & I
                                  can
                                  > > adapt
                                  > > > > a small-block to it.
                                  > > > *****
                                  > > > Well, The way I see it, If you plop a THM425 into the back
                                  of a
                                  > > car you
                                  > > > end up with a rear engined car, not a mid engined car.
                                  > > ***************
                                  > > Yeah, it's kinda a mid-rear engine car. I consider a rear engine
                                  car
                                  > > to have the entire engine behind the transmission, like Porsche &
                                  > > Corvair.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > If I jack up my
                                  > > > Mazdaillac just in front of a rear wheel it lifts the whole
                                  side.
                                  > > The output
                                  > > > shaft goes right under the second main bearing, so you have a
                                  > > little more
                                  > > > than half the engine, all the transmission and most of the diff
                                  > > behind the
                                  > > > axle. You can angle the axle shafts back as much as 25°
                                  (assuming
                                  > > you don't
                                  > > > want rear steering :-) but I don't think you will actually get
                                  much
                                  > > of the
                                  > > > weight onto the front axle. All this is mute if space
                                  constraints
                                  > > keep the
                                  > > > engine pretty much over the axle.
                                  > > > ***
                                  > > > > As I mentioned before, I'm seeking alternatives for several
                                  > > projects.
                                  > > > > One I'm currently gathering parts for (& have started some of
                                  the
                                  > > > > work) is a mid-engine VW Cabriolet. I was originally thinking
                                  of
                                  > > > > using Fiero running gear (& may still) & either an LT1 ('95
                                  which
                                  > > I
                                  > > > > have) or a 300HP 283 (which I also have). But I would rather
                                  do a
                                  > > V8
                                  > > > > longitudinaly, as long as I can keep it manual (with a
                                  clutch) so
                                  > > I
                                  > > > > can build it up as a roadracer-type machine.
                                  > > > > Also, some of the other projects include an '88 Fiero
                                  automatic
                                  > > (in
                                  > > > > which I'm leaning towards a Caddy 4.9 & 4-speed auto), & a
                                  > > Ferrari-
                                  > > > > bodied '86 Fiero (which I would like to also have a
                                  longitudinal
                                  > > V8).
                                  > > > > I don't mind adapting a small-block to an automatic transaxle
                                  for
                                  > > > > that one, if I can make it fit within a 3" stretched Fiero.
                                  It's
                                  > > just
                                  > > > > in the thinking about it stage right now, but I *do* have the
                                  > > car, &
                                  > > > > am talking to a guy about trading me the body kit to build
                                  one
                                  > > for
                                  > > > > him.
                                  > > > > Thanks,
                                  > > > ****
                                  > > > Well, geez, if you're just talking small blocks then torque
                                  > > shouldn't be
                                  > > > a big problem. If you have room for putting the engine in front
                                  of
                                  > > the axle
                                  > > > (I've never taken a close look at a fiero engine compartment,
                                  but I
                                  > > know
                                  > > > people like the transverse caddy setups for them, so it must be
                                  > > small) then you could think
                                  > > > about the transaxle from the back of a modern corvette, you
                                  could
                                  > > look at
                                  > > > late '90s mopars (I don't know that there is a manual, but
                                  there is
                                  > > a
                                  > > > chance, and it is a strange enough setup it's just fun to look
                                  at)
                                  > > There
                                  > > > were kits to put V8s in corvairs that used the stock trans,
                                  just
                                  > > rotated
                                  > > > 180° (I don't know how that works out direction-wise; they may
                                  have
                                  > > had to
                                  > > > make the engine run backwards, or something...) and you can
                                  always
                                  > > just put
                                  > > > a diff on a RWD trans where the tailshaft used to be...
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I kinda think space will be the biggest problem, so it may
                                  be
                                  > > time for a
                                  > > > trip to the junkyard with your trusty tape measure.
                                  > > *************
                                  > > Yeah; nothing fits that has the engine in front of the drive axle
                                  (in
                                  > > either car). I don't think a 36" stretched Fiero with a 33"
                                  stretched
                                  > > Ferrari body is what I'm looking for.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ...I just thought of the subarus. the center and front
                                  diffs
                                  > > are in the
                                  > > > trans case, so if you fix the center diff it should do what you
                                  > > want. The
                                  > > > stock engine has been known to break the stock trans, but there
                                  is
                                  > > a place
                                  > > > that makes stronger gears for only ~$2500.
                                  > > **********
                                  > > My entire budget for the drivetrain will be far less than that.
                                  I'm
                                  > > an artist, & a poor one at that.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Then if you ever wanted to add
                                  > > > another axle and have a 4X6 it'd be easy. [*Smile*] ...you
                                  could
                                  > > do the
                                  > > > same thing with other 4WD/AWD setups, and it would give you
                                  some
                                  > > flexabilty,
                                  > > > the tradoff is moving the engine weight higher.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ...Are you sure you don't want to build a cad engine with
                                  700+
                                  > > ft/lbs
                                  > > > and not worry about this shifting stuff? It is fun to drive a
                                  5200
                                  > > pound
                                  > > > vehicle that can spin it's front wheels...
                                  > > ***************
                                  > > Just don't want an automatic in the VW - not the thing for
                                  > > a "roadracer". I might would consider it for the Ferrari-bodied
                                  car,
                                  > > but really don't want the weight - it won't handle nearly as
                                  well.
                                  > > None of these will be FWD.
                                  > > On a side note, I'm thinking of using Brat running gear in my VW
                                  baja
                                  > > bug, using the VW engine in it's normal location. I'm running
                                  gear
                                  > > reduction boxes that reverse the rotation of the rear drive
                                  shafts,
                                  > > so all I would have to do is mount the front diff. upside down.
                                  BTW
                                  > > when using a transaxle such as a corvair in a mid-engine, you
                                  reverse
                                  > > the side the ring gear is on.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > ~ Paul
                                  > > > > aka "Tha Driver"
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Joe Hamlin '78 Eldo Biarritz
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
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                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cadillac_Performance_Association/
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                                  > >
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                                  Service.
                                • William Lucke
                                  The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the transmission, then a planetary final. Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive Either
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 19 7:09 AM
                                    The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
                                    transmission, then a planetary final.
                                    Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
                                    Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final drive.

                                    Which Ferarri body?
                                    Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
                                    As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as well as
                                    the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago V8's put
                                    together)
                                    And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the stock
                                    engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
                                    I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I already
                                    mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and more
                                    efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.


                                    Will


                                    > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@...>
                                    >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                                    >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                                    > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in these
                                    > > applications?
                                    > >
                                    > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
                                    >drivetrain
                                    > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Will
                                    >**********
                                    >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
                                    >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
                                    >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to. I
                                    >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a transverse
                                    >engine.
                                    >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
                                    >~ Paul
                                    >aka "Tha Driver"
                                    >
                                    >Easy on the Giggle Cream!



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                                  • Paul Angel
                                    ... drive. ... well as ... V8 s put ... stock ... already ... more ... ************* Really? Never noticed that. The guy I m talking to has the 355 Ferrari;
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 19 9:14 AM
                                      --- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                                      Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                                      > The transverse automatics have a chain drive from the pump to the
                                      > transmission, then a planetary final.
                                      > Transverse manuals have spur gear final drive
                                      > Either way, they avoid the drivetrain loss of a hypoid bevel final
                                      drive.
                                      >
                                      > Which Ferarri body?
                                      > Dino 246, Ferarri 308 and 328 were all transverse
                                      > As was the Lamborghini Jalpa (and maybe the Miura, not sure), as
                                      well as
                                      > the Cizeta Moroder V16T (transverse V16 based on two Lambo Urago
                                      V8's put
                                      > together)
                                      > And my Northstar Fiero with HM282 five speed. It ran 12's on the
                                      stock
                                      > engine. It will be back on the road after performance build soon.
                                      > I think that the transverse approach IS artful for the reasons I
                                      already
                                      > mentioned... the transmission is simpler, smaller and lighter and
                                      more
                                      > efficient. Mechanical art and elegant design.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Will
                                      *************
                                      Really? Never noticed that. The guy I'm talking to has the 355
                                      Ferrari; They're longitudinal V8s, Right?
                                      But strickly as art, the tranverse setups just don't appeal to me.
                                      I'm very eccentric, you know. (I'm an artist :-D
                                      ~ Paul
                                      aka "Tha Driver"

                                      Easy on the Giggle Cream!









                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > From: "Paul Angel" <imthadriver@y...>
                                      > >Subject: Re: Engine/drivetrain list
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >--- In Cadillac_Performance_Association@yahoogroups.com, William
                                      > >Lucke <william.lucke@h...> wrote:
                                      > > > Why are you determined to have a longitudinal transmission in
                                      these
                                      > > > applications?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Transverse manuals are lighter and more compact and have less
                                      > >drivetrain
                                      > > > loss (spur gear final drive instead of hypoid bevel).
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Will
                                      > >**********
                                      > >Well, I'm an artist, first of all. Cars are my medium. I just think
                                      > >they will look better, the weight will be more balanced, & in the
                                      > >case of the Ferrari-bodied Fiero, look more like it's supposed to.
                                      I
                                      > >don't know of any exotic (except the Fiero :-) that has a
                                      transverse
                                      > >engine.
                                      > >Spur gear? I thought they were chain drive...(not that it matters).
                                      > >~ Paul
                                      > >aka "Tha Driver"
                                      > >
                                      > >Easy on the Giggle Cream!
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                                      > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date:
                                      4/19/2005
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