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Re: [CU68-08Event] Re: Historic date--another perspective on Palin

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  • Katherine Knowles
    all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an American given the
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 3, 2008
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      all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
      clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an
      American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
      choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
      qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of those
      "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job! Perhaps,
      in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
      expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
      experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called for,
      instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
      unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
      quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would never
      have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
      On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:

      >  
      >
      > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
      >  
      >
      > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
      >
      > Robert J. Elisberg
      >
      > Huffingtonpost.com
      >
      >
      > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you
      > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it is
      > drenched.
      >
      > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential candidate
      > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
      > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O.
      > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
      >
      > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator. Worse
      > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for
      > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so obscure
      > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an
      > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that was ad
      > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman for 12
      > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials against
      > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
      >
      > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was trying to
      > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd be
      > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who at
      > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter
      > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't afford
      > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so I
      > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of all
      > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the window.
      > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
      >
      > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for John
      > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that
      > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
      >
      > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who wouldn't
      > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also probably
      > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the ticket -
      > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not to
      > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic women to
      > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic beliefs.
      > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the GOP
      > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the next
      > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
      > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get some to
      > vote - but that position and others related to it are specifically
      > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will probably lose
      > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get themselves to
      > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the nomination
      > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
      >
      > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
      >  
      >
      > It's always said that the most important decision a presidential
      > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their
      > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has just
      > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified
      > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the
      > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to select
      > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton supporters,
      > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd Whitman,
      > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for
      > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these have
      > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to run, but
      > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the American
      > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to be
      > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could have
      > been chosen.
      >
      > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is gross
      > political misconduct.
      >
      > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18 months.
      > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include
      > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in the
      > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
      >
      > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000. I
      > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is
      > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
      > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
      > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure that
      > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't expect
      > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from U.S.
      > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on the
      > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair, it's
      > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
      > political signage.)
      >
      > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the mayor
      > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at council
      > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters before
      > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in the
      > case of a tie;
      >>
      >>
      >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
      >
      > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really small),
      > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village
      > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
      >
      > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah Palin
      > the VP nominee is so terrible.
      >
      > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's a
      > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level, her
      > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign -
      > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to
      > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which
      > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only been
      > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in
      > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for
      > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of
      > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as
      > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes
      > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
      > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
      > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The national
      > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All they
      > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate is
      > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against most
      > things Democrats stand for."
      >
      > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
      >
      > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for him
      > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
      > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it. She
      > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's best
      > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman
      > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as the
      > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a significant
      > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and
      > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
      > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
      >
      > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
      >
      > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is give
      > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts America
      > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of his
      > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of honor.
      > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
      > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor as "blatantly
      > pandering."
      >
      > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so terrible.
      >
      > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement to
      > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee for
      > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
      >
      > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down reading
      > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama giving
      > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative analysts
      > were admiring in awe.
      >
      > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there were
      > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a
      > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night before.
      >
      > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about Sarah
      > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the United
      > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking about
      > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
      >
      > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty much
      > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And then,
      > she basically stopped there.
      >
      > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by talking
      > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to Republicans
      > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so
      > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
      > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
      > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
      >
      > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
      > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one
      > question oneveryone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is a
      > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on everyone's
      > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you
      > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
      >
      > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the ticket was
      > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be enough
      > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the ticket.
      > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because she
      > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she was
      > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important Democratic
      > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise
      > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
      > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
      >
      > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head of
      > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden when
      > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in blunt
      > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must have
      > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
      > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This isn't
      > fair."
      >
      > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
      >
      > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or about
      > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the balloons
      > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still over
      > two months to go for the campaign.
      >
      > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
      >
      > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it reinforces
      > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a word
      > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
      > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly faulty
      > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
      >
      > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John
      > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday, when he
      > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd sang
      > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John McCain's
      > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he was
      > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the "How old
      > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's saying he
      > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
      >
      > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
      > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's only
      > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already done
      > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain well
      > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed. Didn't
      > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal that
      > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
      >
      > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the selection
      > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by the
      > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself to
      > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in
      > presidential politics.
      >
      > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
      > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the
      > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans were
      > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
      > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
      > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her
      > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as
      > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's first
      > decision.
      >
      > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
      > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John
      > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
      >
      > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a lot of
      > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign has
      > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
      >
      >
      >>
      >>
      >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and even
      >> Kerry
      >> lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
      >> _it may all be decided by the ("progressive") voter registration and
      >> turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends!
      >>
      >> _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
      >> decisive!),
      >> until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
      >> But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for Barack
      >> Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come back...
      >>
      >> The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
      >> 'rightest'
      >> of them don't like him at all...
      >> Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative and
      >> even
      >> exciting...so far...
      >>
      >> Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
      >> McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is an Ivy
      >> League guy who is a war critic.
      >>
      >> Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin has 5
      >> kids,
      >> and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
      >> and anti-abortion...and her husband is an all-American kinda guy...
      >>
      >> The race is now 50-50...
      >> For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
      >> here...McCain/Obama, Biden/Palin...especially the latter!
      >>
      >> Best, Neal
      >>
    • Mitchsknd@aol.com
      whatever the motives behind the nomination of sarah palin, there is actually something like a revolutionary impulse in the feelings she ignites. she s a lot
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 3, 2008
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        whatever the motives behind the nomination of sarah palin, there is actually something like a revolutionary impulse in the feelings she ignites. she's a lot closer to bernadine and jj  of 40 years ago than the mandarins of the democrat and republican elites -- not to mention the sorry ass re-hashers still crying 'cause they got punched in the nose by the big bad policemen on college walk. these are our "radicals."
         
        what a bore is this article below by robert j. elisberg, whoever the fuck he is. what a disappointment is the thoroughly conventional response to this nomination. what a putz is anybody who uses a phrase like "a heartbeat away from the presidency."
         
        really pisses me off --
        mitch sisskind '68CU
         
        In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:45:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, klk1946@... writes:
        all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
        clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an
        American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
        choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
        qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of those
        "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!  Perhaps,
        in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
        expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
        experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called for,
        instead, Call your mother!  Please, let's give this courageous if
        unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
        quite so dismissive.  She actually has a lot of people I would never
        have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
        On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:

        >  
        >
        > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
        >  
        >
        > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
        >
        > Robert J. Elisberg
        >
        > Huffingtonpost.com
        >
        >
        > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you
        > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it is
        > drenched.
        >
        > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential candidate
        > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
        > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O.
        > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
        >
        > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator. Worse
        > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for
        > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so obscure
        > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an
        > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that was ad
        > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman for 12
        > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials against
        > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
        >
        > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was trying to
        > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd be
        > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who at
        > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter
        > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't afford
        > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so I
        > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of all
        > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the window.
        > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
        >
        > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for John
        > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that
        > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
        >
        > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who wouldn't
        > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also probably
        > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the ticket -
        > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not to
        > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic women to
        > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic beliefs.
        > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the GOP
        > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the next
        > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
        > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get some to
        > vote - but that position and others related to it are specifically
        > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will probably lose
        > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get themselves to
        > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the nomination
        > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
        >
        > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
        >  
        >
        > It's always said that the most important decision a presidential
        > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their
        > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has just
        > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified
        > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the
        > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to select
        > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton supporters,
        > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd Whitman,
        > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for
        > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these have
        > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to run, but
        > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the American
        > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to be
        > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could have
        > been chosen.
        >
        > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is gross
        > political misconduct.
        >
        > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18 months.
        > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include
        > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in the
        > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
        >
        > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000. I
        > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is
        > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
        > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
        > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure that
        > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't expect
        > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from U.S.
        > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on the
        > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair, it's
        > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
        > political signage.)
        >
        > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the mayor
        > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at council
        > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters before
        > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in the
        > case of a tie;
        >>
        >>
        >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
        >
        > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really small),
        > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village
        > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
        >
        > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah Palin
        > the VP nominee is so terrible.
        >
        > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's a
        > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level, her
        > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign -
        > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to
        > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which
        > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only been
        > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in
        > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for
        > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of
        > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as
        > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes
        > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
        > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
        > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The national
        > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All they
        > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate is
        > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against most
        > things Democrats stand for."
        >
        > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
        >
        > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for him
        > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
        > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it. She
        > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's best
        > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman
        > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as the
        > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a significant
        > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and
        > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
        > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
        >
        > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
        >
        > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is give
        > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts America
        > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of his
        > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of honor.
        > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
        > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor as "blatantly
        > pandering."
        >
        > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so terrible.
        >
        > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement to
        > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee for
        > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
        >
        > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down reading
        > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama giving
        > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative analysts
        > were admiring in awe.
        >
        > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there were
        > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a
        > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night before.
        >
        > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about Sarah
        > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the United
        > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking about
        > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
        >
        > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty much
        > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And then,
        > she basically stopped there.
        >
        > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by talking
        > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to Republicans
        > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so
        > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
        > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
        > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
        >
        > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
        > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one
        > question oneveryone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is a
        > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on everyone's
        > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you
        > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
        >
        > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the ticket was
        > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be enough
        > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the ticket.
        > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because she
        > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she was
        > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important Democratic
        > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise
        > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
        > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
        >
        > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head of
        > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden when
        > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in blunt
        > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must have
        > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
        > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This isn't
        > fair."
        >
        > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
        >
        > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or about
        > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the balloons
        > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still over
        > two months to go for the campaign.
        >
        > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
        >
        > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it reinforces
        > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a word
        > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
        > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly faulty
        > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
        >
        > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John
        > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday, when he
        > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd sang
        > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John McCain's
        > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he was
        > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the "How old
        > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's saying he
        > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
        >
        > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
        > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's only
        > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already done
        > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain well
        > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed. Didn't
        > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal that
        > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
        >
        > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the selection
        > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by the
        > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself to
        > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in
        > presidential politics.
        >
        > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
        > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the
        > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans were
        > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
        > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
        > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her
        > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as
        > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's first
        > decision.
        >
        > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
        > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John
        > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
        >
        > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a lot of
        > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign has
        > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
        >
        >
        >>
        >>
        >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and even
        >> Kerry
        >>  lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
        >>  _it may all be decided by the ("progressive") voter registration and
        >>  turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends!
        >>
        >>  _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
        >> decisive!),
        >>  until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
        >>  But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for Barack
        >>  Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come back...
        >>
        >>  The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
        >> 'rightest'
        >>  of them don't like him at all...
        >>  Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative and
        >> even
        >>  exciting...so far...
        >>
        >>  Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
        >>  McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is an Ivy
        >>  League guy who is a war critic.
        >>
        >>  Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin has 5
        >> kids,
        >>  and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
        >>  and anti-abortion...and her husband is an all-American kinda guy...
        >>
        >>  The race is now 50-50...
        >>  For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
        >>  here...McCain/Obama, Biden/Palin...especially the latter!
        >>
        >>  Best, Neal
        >>





        It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
      • Les Gottesman
        Nothing particularly admirable in being revolutionary, never was; what s her (their) revolution FOR? Les Les Gottesman 1289 Stanyan Street San Francisco, CA
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Nothing particularly admirable in being revolutionary, never was; what's her (their) revolution FOR?

          Les

          Les Gottesman

          1289 Stanyan Street

          San Francisco, CA 94117

          Phone/fax: 415-665-1297

          Email: lesgot@...


          On Sep 3, 2008, at 10:32 PM, mitchsknd@... wrote:

          whatever the motives behind the nomination of sarah palin, there is actually something like a revolutionary impulse in the feelings she ignites. she's a lot closer to bernadine and jj  of 40 years ago than the mandarins of the democrat and republican elites -- not to mention the sorry ass re-hashers still crying 'cause they got punched in the nose by the big bad policemen on college walk. these are our "radicals."
           
          what a bore is this article below by robert j. elisberg, whoever the fuck he is. what a disappointment is the thoroughly conventional response to this nomination. what a putz is anybody who uses a phrase like "a heartbeat away from the presidency."
           
          really pisses me off --
          mitch sisskind '68CU
           
          In a message dated 9/3/2008 9:45:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, klk1946@comcast. net writes:
          all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is 
          clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an 
          American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this 
          choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best 
          qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of those 
          "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!  Perhaps, 
          in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just 
          expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political 
          experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called for, 
          instead, Call your mother!  Please, let's give this courageous if 
          unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be 
          quite so dismissive.  She actually has a lot of people I would never 
          have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
          On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@ att.net wrote:

          >  
          >
          > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
          >  
          >
          > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
          >
          > Robert J. Elisberg
          >
          > Huffingtonpost. com
          >
          >
          > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you 
          > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it is 
          > drenched.
          >
          > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential candidate 
          > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair, 
          > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O. 
          > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
          >
          > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator. Worse 
          > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for 
          > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so obscure 
          > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an 
          > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that was ad 
          > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman for 12 
          > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials against 
          > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
          >
          > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was trying to 
          > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd be 
          > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who at 
          > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter 
          > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't afford 
          > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so I 
          > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of all 
          > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the window. 
          > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
          >
          > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for John 
          > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that 
          > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
          >
          > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who wouldn't 
          > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also probably 
          > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the ticket - 
          > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not to 
          > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic women to 
          > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic beliefs. 
          > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the GOP 
          > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the next 
          > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to 
          > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get some to 
          > vote - but that position and others related to it are specifically 
          > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will probably lose 
          > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get themselves to 
          > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the nomination 
          > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
          >
          > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
          >  
          >
          > It's always said that the most important decision a presidential 
          > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their 
          > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has just 
          > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified 
          > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the 
          > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to select 
          > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton supporters, 
          > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd Whitman, 
          > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for 
          > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these have 
          > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to run, but 
          > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the American 
          > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to be 
          > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could have 
          > been chosen.
          >
          > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is gross 
          > political misconduct.
          >
          > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18 months. 
          > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include 
          > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in the 
          > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
          >
          > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000. I 
          > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is 
          > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from 
          > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't 
          > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure that 
          > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't expect 
          > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from U.S. 
          > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on the 
          > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair, it's 
          > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying 
          > political signage.)
          >
          > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the mayor 
          > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at council 
          > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters before 
          > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in the 
          > case of a tie;
          >>
          >>
          >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
          >
          > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really small), 
          > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village 
          > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
          >
          > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah Palin 
          > the VP nominee is so terrible.
          >
          > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's a 
          > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level, her 
          > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign - 
          > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to 
          > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which 
          > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only been 
          > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in 
          > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for 
          > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of 
          > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as 
          > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes 
          > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar 
          > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under 
          > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The national 
          > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All they 
          > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate is 
          > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against most 
          > things Democrats stand for."
          >
          > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
          >
          > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for him 
          > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get 
          > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it. She 
          > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's best 
          > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman 
          > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as the 
          > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a significant 
          > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and 
          > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the 
          > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
          >
          > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
          >
          > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is give 
          > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts America 
          > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of his 
          > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of honor. 
          > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice 
          > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor as "blatantly 
          > pandering."
          >
          > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so terrible.
          >
          > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement to 
          > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee for 
          > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
          >
          > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down reading 
          > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama giving 
          > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative analysts 
          > were admiring in awe.
          >
          > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there were 
          > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a 
          > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night before.
          >
          > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about Sarah 
          > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the United 
          > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking about 
          > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
          >
          > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty much 
          > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And then, 
          > she basically stopped there.
          >
          > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by talking 
          > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to Republicans 
          > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so 
          > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the 
          > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her 
          > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
          >
          > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John 
          > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one 
          > question oneveryone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is a 
          > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on everyone's 
          > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you 
          > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
          >
          > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the ticket was 
          > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be enough 
          > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the ticket. 
          > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because she 
          > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she was 
          > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important Democratic 
          > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise 
          > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're 
          > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
          >
          > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head of 
          > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden when 
          > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in blunt 
          > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must have 
          > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in 
          > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This isn't 
          > fair."
          >
          > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
          >
          > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or about 
          > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the balloons 
          > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still over 
          > two months to go for the campaign.
          >
          > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
          >
          > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it reinforces 
          > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a word 
          > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about 
          > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly faulty 
          > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
          >
          > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John 
          > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday, when he 
          > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd sang 
          > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John McCain's 
          > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he was 
          > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the "How old 
          > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's saying he 
          > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
          >
          > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at 
          > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's only 
          > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already done 
          > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain well 
          > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed. Didn't 
          > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal that 
          > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
          >
          > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the selection 
          > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by the 
          > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself to 
          > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in 
          > presidential politics.
          >
          > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's 
          > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the 
          > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans were 
          > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be 
          > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her 
          > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her 
          > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as 
          > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's first 
          > decision.
          >
          > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his 
          > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John 
          > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
          >
          > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a lot of 
          > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign has 
          > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
          >
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and even 
          >> Kerry
          >>  lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
          >>  _it may all be decided by the ("progressive" ) voter registration and
          >>  turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends !
          >>
          >>  _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being 
          >> decisive!),
          >>  until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
          >>  But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for Barack
          >>  Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come back...
          >>
          >>  The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the 
          >> 'rightest'
          >>  of them don't like him at all...
          >>  Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative and 
          >> even
          >>  exciting...so far...
          >>
          >>  Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
          >>  McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is an Ivy
          >>  League guy who is a war critic.
          >>
          >>  Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin has 5 
          >> kids,
          >>  and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
          >>  and anti-abortion. ..and her husband is an all-American kinda guy...
          >>
          >>  The race is now 50-50...
          >>  For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
          >>  here...McCain/ Obama, Biden/Palin. ..especially the latter!
          >>
          >>  Best, Neal
          >>





          It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.


        • Dan Leighton
          The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her being a woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican party Rush Limbaugh proudly calls her, a
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her being a woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican party Rush Limbaugh proudly calls her, a "babe."

            This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous choice by McCain, and given how she will activate the Christian Right base, and be championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil propaganda apparatus, from FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly likely that we will have President Palin within the next 4 years (given McCain's health and age). 
            With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard for him to get elected.

            She has deep ties to the fanatic Christian Right, the Oil industry, and has acted in a Rovian, dictatorial manner in her official capacity.  She also wants to outlaw abortion, even in cases of rape and incest, or when the mother's life is in danger.

            Some info sources:
            First, on her fundamentalist Christian extremism, see Huffington Post:
            "Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview"
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html
            Please read the whole story.
            Some excerpts-

            Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out the will of the Lord.

            "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

            Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in Palin's foreign policy. It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that," she said.


            Her Wasilia Assembly of God Pastor Ed Kainins makes Jeremiah Wright seem mild-mannered and moderate.

            Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode." ...

            Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina. "I hate criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get you."

            Much of his support for the current administration has come in the realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be willing to sacrifice their lives.

            He preaches repeatedly about the "end times" or "last days," an apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them."

            He also claims to have received direct "words of knowledge" from God, providing him information about past events in other people's lives.


            As to Palin's actual record, see the following stories from Randi Rhodes (despite her ranting style, one of our few remaining investigative journalists, along with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now, arrested this week at the RNC).
            Check out the links.
            Especially see the link about her vicious use of her powers, & efforts to ban books from the local library.
            From: http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/

            Do you think she’ll include the title her little town won?  “METH CAPITAL OF ALASKA” That’s right, in 2003 the Mat-Su area (Wasilla Alaska) authorities uncovered 9 Meth labs. By 2004 the number of meth labs in Wasilla jumped to 42! http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/030805/sta_20050308002.shtml


            Meth Lab Cleanup in Wasilla IS BIG BUSINESS
            http://homemethtestkit.com/index.php?q=99629


            Meanwhile the Wasilla police were conducting raids with automatic weapons on POKER GAMES?
            McGregor knew many of the people arrested in the Wasilla raid two weeks ago. He said he's been told that there were as many as 20 police officers - armed with automatic weapons - involved in the bust. He said he can't understand why police are using valuable resources to arrest otherwise law-abiding citizens for gambling with their own money. Aren't we the meth capital of Alaska?” he asks. “Why are we busting poker games? No one is going to Gestapo-style raid your house on Super Bowl Sunday” '
            http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2007/04/29/news/news6.txt

            And Sarah was BANNING BOOKS in the Wasilla library.


            Mayor/Dictator
            Sarah Palin brought Rovian tactics to a small town Mayor's race. Once in office, she governed with an iron...far right, Christian conservative....fist. Right down to the books she wanted banned from the Wasilla library
            http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html?
            imw=Y


            OR THAT SHE REFUSES TO PAY HER TAXES??
            Palin failed to declare a business she owned.  The business was dissolved by the state for non payment of fees owed.  She also started a failed Marketing Company named Rouge Cou.  Translated from THE FRENCH it means “Red neck”
            http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing
            _car_wash.html


            The letter advising her that she failed to pay States fees owed on her business (a car wash) was written on her own letterhead?
            http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/warningletter
            20070211.pdf


            Even John McCain criticized Sarah Palin’s addiction to PORK
            http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-earmarks3-2008
            sep03,0,284198.story


            Frozen Pork Barrel: $27 Million in Fed Funds For a Town Of 5,000
            Despite their oil wealth, Alaskan pols are experts at dipping into federal funding. Ted Stevens mastered it. His protégé' Sarah Palin was getting good too.
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/
            AR2008090103148.html?hpid=topnews


            3 Degrees of Separation: Sarah Palin-Steven Silver-Jack Abramoff
            In addition to being Ted Stevens' chief of staff, Mayor Palin's lobbyist Steven Silver was an Abramoff confidant
            http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palins_lobbyist
            has_abramoff_t.php


            Alaska #3 on The Federal Spending List.......
            For every buck they send in taxes, the get almost two back.
            http://www..taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html





            --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...> wrote:
            From: Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
            all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is 
            clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an
            American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
            choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
            qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of those
            "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
            Perhaps,
            in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
            expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
            experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called for,
            instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
            unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
            quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would never
            have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
            On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:

            >  
            >
            > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
            >  
            >
            > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
            >
            > Robert J. Elisberg
            >
            > Huffingtonpost.com
            >
            >
            > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you
            > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it is

            > drenched.
            >
            > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential candidate
            > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
            > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O.
            > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
            >





          • Jeffrey Sokolow
            Sorry, Kathy, can t go along. McLame = quasi-fascist with male sex organs Palin = quasi-fascist with female sex organs The f-word I m concerned about is not
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Sorry, Kathy, can't go along.

              McLame = quasi-fascist with male sex organs
              Palin = quasi-fascist with female sex organs

              The "f-word" I'm concerned about is not "female" but "fascist."

              I don't like Christian fascism anymore than Islamic fascism or any
              other kind of fascism. Her speech last night was pure red meat to the
              small thinking, small town, smugly pious rightwing Christian
              fundamentalist base of the GOP. The thought of her finger on or
              anywhere near the nuclear trigger is terrifying. And this is just
              what she's showing; what's underneath the surface is far worse.

              So she's a hockey mom. Big deal. And Clarence Thomas is black. So
              what? Let's look at content, not surface characteristics. The point
              is not what she is but what she thinks and does. Fishing for women's
              votes with an anti-feminist, anti-choice, anti-gay woman is a joke.

              -- Jeff
              --- In CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
              > clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as
              an
              > American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
              > choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
              > qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of
              those
              > "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
              Perhaps,
              > in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
              > expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
              > experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called
              for,
              > instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
              > unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
              > quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would
              never
              > have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
              > On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:
              >
              > >  
              > >
              > > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
              > >  
              > >
              > > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
              > >
              > > Robert J. Elisberg
              > >
              > > Huffingtonpost.com
              > >
              > >
              > > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see
              you
              > > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that
              it is
              > > drenched.
              > >
              > > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
              candidate
              > > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
              > > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William
              O.
              > > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
              > >
              > > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator.
              Worse
              > > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for
              > > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so
              obscure
              > > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an
              > > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that
              was ad
              > > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman
              for 12
              > > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials
              against
              > > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
              > >
              > > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was
              trying to
              > > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd
              be
              > > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who
              at
              > > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter
              > > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't
              afford
              > > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so
              I
              > > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of
              all
              > > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the
              window.
              > > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
              > >
              > > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for
              John
              > > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that
              > > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
              > >
              > > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who
              wouldn't
              > > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also
              probably
              > > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the
              ticket -
              > > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not
              to
              > > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic
              women to
              > > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic
              beliefs.
              > > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the
              GOP
              > > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the
              next
              > > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
              > > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get
              some to
              > > vote - but that position and others related to it are
              specifically
              > > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will probably
              lose
              > > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get
              themselves to
              > > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the
              nomination
              > > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
              > >
              > > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
              > >  
              > >
              > > It's always said that the most important decision a presidential
              > > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their
              > > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has
              just
              > > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified
              > > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the
              > > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to
              select
              > > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton
              supporters,
              > > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd
              Whitman,
              > > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for
              > > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these
              have
              > > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to
              run, but
              > > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the
              American
              > > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to
              be
              > > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could
              have
              > > been chosen.
              > >
              > > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is
              gross
              > > political misconduct.
              > >
              > > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18
              months.
              > > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include
              > > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in
              the
              > > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
              > >
              > > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000.
              I
              > > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is
              > > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
              > > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
              > > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure
              that
              > > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't
              expect
              > > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from U.S.
              > > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on
              the
              > > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair,
              it's
              > > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
              > > political signage.)
              > >
              > > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the
              mayor
              > > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at
              council
              > > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters
              before
              > > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in
              the
              > > case of a tie;
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
              > >
              > > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really
              small),
              > > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village
              > > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
              > >
              > > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah
              Palin
              > > the VP nominee is so terrible.
              > >
              > > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's
              a
              > > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level,
              her
              > > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the
              campaign -
              > > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying
              to
              > > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush,
              which
              > > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only
              been
              > > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14
              years in
              > > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running
              for
              > > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a
              history of
              > > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step
              in as
              > > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she
              makes
              > > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
              > > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
              > > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The
              national
              > > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All
              they
              > > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate
              is
              > > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against
              most
              > > things Democrats stand for."
              > >
              > > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
              > >
              > > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for
              him
              > > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
              > > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it.
              She
              > > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's
              best
              > > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman
              > > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as
              the
              > > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a
              significant
              > > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and
              > > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
              > > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
              > >
              > > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
              > >
              > > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is
              give
              > > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts
              America
              > > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of
              his
              > > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of
              honor.
              > > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
              > > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor
              as "blatantly
              > > pandering."
              > >
              > > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so
              terrible.
              > >
              > > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement
              to
              > > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee
              for
              > > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
              > >
              > > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down
              reading
              > > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama
              giving
              > > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative
              analysts
              > > were admiring in awe.
              > >
              > > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there
              were
              > > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a
              > > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night
              before.
              > >
              > > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about
              Sarah
              > > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the United
              > > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking
              about
              > > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
              > >
              > > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty
              much
              > > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And
              then,
              > > she basically stopped there.
              > >
              > > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by
              talking
              > > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to
              Republicans
              > > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so
              > > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
              > > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
              > > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
              > >
              > > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
              > > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one
              > > question oneveryone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is
              a
              > > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on
              everyone's
              > > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you
              > > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
              > >
              > > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the
              ticket was
              > > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be
              enough
              > > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the
              ticket.
              > > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because
              she
              > > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she
              was
              > > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important
              Democratic
              > > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise
              > > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
              > > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
              > >
              > > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head
              of
              > > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden
              when
              > > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in
              blunt
              > > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must
              have
              > > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
              > > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This
              isn't
              > > fair."
              > >
              > > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
              > >
              > > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or
              about
              > > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the
              balloons
              > > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still
              over
              > > two months to go for the campaign.
              > >
              > > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
              > >
              > > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it
              reinforces
              > > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a
              word
              > > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
              > > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly
              faulty
              > > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
              > >
              > > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John
              > > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday,
              when he
              > > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd
              sang
              > > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John
              McCain's
              > > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he
              was
              > > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the "How
              old
              > > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's
              saying he
              > > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
              > >
              > > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
              > > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's
              only
              > > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already
              done
              > > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain
              well
              > > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed.
              Didn't
              > > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal
              that
              > > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
              > >
              > > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the
              selection
              > > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by
              the
              > > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself
              to
              > > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in
              > > presidential politics.
              > >
              > > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
              > > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the
              > > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans
              were
              > > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
              > > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
              > > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her
              > > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as
              > > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's
              first
              > > decision.
              > >
              > > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
              > > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John
              > > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
              > >
              > > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a
              lot of
              > > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign
              has
              > > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
              > >
              > >
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and
              even
              > >> Kerry
              > >> lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
              > >> _it may all be decided by the ("progressive") voter
              registration and
              > >> turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends!
              > >>
              > >> _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
              > >> decisive!),
              > >> until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
              > >> But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for Barack
              > >> Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come back...
              > >>
              > >> The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
              > >> 'rightest'
              > >> of them don't like him at all...
              > >> Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative
              and
              > >> even
              > >> exciting...so far...
              > >>
              > >> Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
              > >> McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is an
              Ivy
              > >> League guy who is a war critic.
              > >>
              > >> Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin has
              5
              > >> kids,
              > >> and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
              > >> and anti-abortion...and her husband is an all-American kinda
              guy...
              > >>
              > >> The race is now 50-50...
              > >> For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
              > >> here...McCain/Obama, Biden/Palin...especially the latter!
              > >>
              > >> Best, Neal
              > >>
              >
            • a.gronowicz@att.net
              Big oil is behind both Biden and Palin.   Vote third party as King and Spock were planning a joint run in 1968 before CIA derailed that effort.  We need to
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Big oil is behind both Biden and Palin.   Vote third party as King and Spock were planning a joint run in 1968 before CIA derailed that effort.  We need to build a third party that speaks to the needs of the people and the environment.

                Tony www.greenmayor.org

                  
                -------------- Original message from "Jeffrey Sokolow" <jsokolow@...>: --------------

                Sorry, Kathy, can't go along.

                McLame = quasi-fascist with male sex organs
                Palin = quasi-fascist with female sex organs

                The "f-word" I'm concerned about is not "female" but "fascist."

                I don't like Christian fascism anymore than Islamic fascism or any
                other kind of fascism. Her speech last night was pure red meat to the
                small thinking, small town, smugly pious rightwing Christian
                fundamentalist base of the GOP. The thought of her finger on or
                anywhere near the nuclear trigger is terrifying. And this is just
                what she's showing; what's underneath the surface is far worse.

                So she's a hockey mom. Big deal. And Clarence Thomas is black. So
                what? Let's look at content, not surface characteristics. The point
                is not what she is but what she thinks and does. Fishing for women's
                votes with an anti-feminist, anti-choice, anti-gay woman is a joke.

                -- Jeff
                --- In CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@... >
                wrote:
                >
                > all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
                > clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as
                an
                > American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                > choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                > qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of
                those
                > "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                Perhaps,
                > in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                > expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                > experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called
                for,
                > instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                > unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
                > quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would
                never
                > have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                > On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@ ... wrote:
                >
                > >  
                > >
                > > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                > >  
                > >
                > > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                > >
                > > Robert J. Elisberg
                > >
                > > Huffingtonpost. com
                > >
                > >
                > > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see
                you
                > > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that
                it is
                > > drenched.
                > >
                > > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                candidate
                > > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
                > > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William
                O.
                > > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                > >
                > > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator.
                Worse
                > > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for
                > > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so
                obscure
                > > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an
                > > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that
                was ad
                > > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman
                for 12
                > > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials
                against
                > > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
                > >
                > > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was
                trying to
                > > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd
                be
                > > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who
                at
                > > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter
                > > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't
                afford
                > > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so
                I
                > > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of
                all
                > > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the
                window.
                > > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
                > >
                > > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for
                John
                > > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that
                > > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
                > >
                > > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who
                wouldn't
                > > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also
                probably
                > > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the
                ticket -
                > > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not
                to
                > > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic
                women to
                > > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic
                beliefs.
                > > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the
                GOP
                > > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the
                next
                > > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
                > > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get
                some to
                > > vote - but that position and others related to it are
                specifically
                > > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will probably
                lose
                > > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get
                themselves to
                > > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the
                nomination
                > > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
                > >
                > > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                > >  
                > >
                > > It's always said that the most important decision a presidential
                > > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their
                > > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has
                just
                > > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified
                > > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the
                > > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to
                select
                > > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton
                supporters,
                > > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd
                Whitman,
                > > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for
                > > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these
                have
                > > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to
                run, but
                > > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the
                American
                > > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to
                be
                > > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could
                have
                > > been chosen.
                > >
                > > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is
                gross
                > > political misconduct.
                > >
                > > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18
                months.
                > > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include
                > > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city  in
                the
                > > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
                > >
                > > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000.
                I
                > > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is
                > > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
                > > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
                > > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure
                that
                > > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't
                expect
                > > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from U.S.
                > > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on
                the
                > > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair,
                it's
                > > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
                > > political signage.)
                > >
                > > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the
                mayor
                > > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at
                council
                > > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters
                before
                > > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in
                the
                > > case of a tie;
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
                > >
                > > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really
                small),
                > > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village
                > > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
                > >
                > > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah
                Palin
                > > the VP nominee is so terrible.
                > >
                > > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's
                a
                > > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level,
                her
                > > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the
                campaign -
                > > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying
                to
                > > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush,
                which
                > > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only
                been
                > > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14
                years in
                > > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running
                for
                > > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a
                history of
                > > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step
                in as
                > > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she
                makes
                > > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
                > > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
                > > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The
                national
                > > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All
                they
                > > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate
                is
                > > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against
                most
                > > things Democrats stand for."
                > >
                > > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                > >
                > > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for
                him
                > > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
                > > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it.
                She
                > > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's
                best
                > > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman
                > > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as
                the
                > > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a
                significant
                > > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and
                > > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
                > > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
                > >
                > > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                > >
                > > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is
                give
                > > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts
                America
                > > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of
                his
                > > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of
                honor.
                > > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
                > > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor
                as "blatantly
                > > pandering."
                > >
                > > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so
                terrible.
                > >
                > > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement
                to
                > > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee
                for
                > > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
                > >
                > > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down
                reading
                > > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama
                giving
                > > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative
                analysts
                > > were admiring in awe.
                > >
                > > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there
                were
                > > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a
                > > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night
                before.
                > >
                > > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about
                Sarah
                > > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the United
                > > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking
                about
                > > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
                > >
                > > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty
                much
                > > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And
                then,
                > > she basically stopped there.
                > >
                > > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by
                talking
                > > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to
                Republicans
                > > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so
                > > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
                > > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
                > > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
                > >
                > > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
                > > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one
                > > question oneveryone's  mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is
                a
                > > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on
                everyone's
                > > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you
                > > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
                > >
                > > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the
                ticket was
                > > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be
                enough
                > > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the
                ticket.
                > > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because
                she
                > > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she
                was
                > > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important
                Democratic
                > > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise
                > > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
                > > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
                > >
                > > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head
                of
                > > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden
                when
                > > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in
                blunt
                > > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must
                have
                > > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
                > > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This
                isn't
                > > fair."
                > >
                > > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
                > >
                > > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or
                about
                > > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the
                balloons
                > > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still
                over
                > > two months to go for the campaign.
                > >
                > > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
                > >
                > > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it
                reinforces
                > > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a
                word
                > > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
                > > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly
                faulty
                > > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
                > >
                > > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John
                > > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday,
                when he
                > > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd
                sang
                > > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John
                McCain's
                > > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he
                was
                > > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the "How
                old
                > > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's
                saying he
                > > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
                > >
                > > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
                > > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's
                only
                > > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already
                done
                > > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain
                well
                > > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed.
                Didn't
                > > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal
                that
                > > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
                > >
                > > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the
                selection
                > > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by
                the
                > > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself
                to
                > > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in
                > > presidential politics.
                > >
                > > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
                > > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the
                > > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans
                were
                > > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
                > > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
                > > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her
                > > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as
                > > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's
                first
                > > decision.
                > >
                > > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
                > > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John
                > > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
                > >
                > > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a
                lot of
                > > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign
                has
                > > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
                > >
                > >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and
                even
                > >> Kerry
                > >> lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
                > >> _it may all be decided by the ("progressive" ) voter
                registration and
                > >> turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends !
                > >>
                > >> _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
                > >> decisive!),
                > >> until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
                > >> But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for Barack
                > >> Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come back...
                > >>
                > >> The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
                > >> 'rightest'
                > >> of them don't like him at all...
                > >> Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative
                and
                > >> even
                > >> exciting...so far...
                > >>
                > >> Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
                > >> McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is an
                Ivy
                > >> League guy who is a war critic.
                > >>
                > >> Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin has
                5
                > >> kids,
                > >> and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
                > >> and anti-abortion. ..and her husband is an all-American kinda
                guy...
                > >>
                > >> The race is now 50-50...
                > >> For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
                > >> here...McCain/ Obama, Biden/Palin. ..especially the latter!
                > >>
                > >> Best, Neal
                > >>
                >

              • Dan Leighton
                Follow-up: Before you vote for Sarah Palin, and McCain, because she is a Soccer Mom, also check out the following link to a letter by someone from her town who
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
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                  Follow-up:
                  Before you vote for Sarah Palin, and McCain, because she is a Soccer Mom, also check out the following link to a letter by someone from her town who knows her well.

                  http://my2bucks.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/a-letter-from-someone-who-has-known-sarah-palin-since-1992/




                  --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Dan Leighton <taigen108@...> wrote:
                  From: Dan Leighton <taigen108@...>
                  Subject: Re: [CU68-08Event] The Real problems with Sarah Palin
                  To: CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 12:54 PM

                  The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her being a woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican party Rush Limbaugh proudly calls her, a "babe."

                  This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous choice by McCain, and given how she will activate the Christian Right base, and be championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil propaganda apparatus, from FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly likely that we will have President Palin within the next 4 years (given McCain's health and age). 
                  With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard for him to get elected.



                • Katherine Knowles
                  thanks Jeff, in your own insightful and succinct way, you nailed it ... fascist not female....it was the dissing of the soccer mom that got me...having been
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
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                    thanks Jeff, in your own insightful and succinct way, you nailed it ...
                    fascist not female....it was the dissing of the soccer mom that got
                    me...having been one I know what it takes...and it was diverting from
                    the real issue which is the appalling strategy of putting her up there
                    with her "cute" baby (did anyone else feel the shock waves when the fox
                    announcer said "and everyone knows how cute downs syndrome babies
                    are?"...) please no third parties, in this case I am with Hilary, we
                    gotta get those people out of our government and voting for Obama will
                    accomplish this, and as someone else in this window has so eloquently
                    said, then we "hold his feet to the fire" and remind him who voted for
                    him and why.
                    On Sep 4, 2008, at 7:15 AM, Jeffrey Sokolow wrote:

                    > Sorry, Kathy, can't go along.
                    >
                    > McLame = quasi-fascist with male sex organs
                    > Palin = quasi-fascist with female sex organs
                    >
                    > The "f-word" I'm concerned about is not "female" but "fascist."
                    >
                    > I don't like Christian fascism anymore than Islamic fascism or any
                    > other kind of fascism. Her speech last night was pure red meat to the
                    > small thinking, small town, smugly pious rightwing Christian
                    > fundamentalist base of the GOP. The thought of her finger on or
                    > anywhere near the nuclear trigger is terrifying. And this is just
                    > what she's showing; what's underneath the surface is far worse.
                    >
                    > So she's a hockey mom. Big deal. And Clarence Thomas is black. So
                    > what? Let's look at content, not surface characteristics. The point
                    > is not what she is but what she thinks and does. Fishing for women's
                    > votes with an anti-feminist, anti-choice, anti-gay woman is a joke.
                    >
                    > -- Jeff
                    > --- In CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
                    > > clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as
                    > an
                    > > American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                    > > choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                    > > qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of
                    > those
                    > > "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                    > Perhaps,
                    > > in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                    > > expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                    > > experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called
                    > for,
                    > > instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                    > > unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
                    > > quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would
                    > never
                    > > have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                    > > On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >  
                    > > >
                    > > > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                    > > >  
                    > > >
                    > > > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                    > > >
                    > > > Robert J. Elisberg
                    > > >
                    > > > Huffingtonpost.com
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see
                    > you
                    > > > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that
                    > it is
                    > > > drenched.
                    > > >
                    > > > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                    > candidate
                    > > > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
                    > > > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William
                    > O.
                    > > > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                    > > >
                    > > > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator.
                    > Worse
                    > > > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for
                    > > > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so
                    > obscure
                    > > > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an
                    > > > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that
                    > was ad
                    > > > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman
                    > for 12
                    > > > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials
                    > against
                    > > > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
                    > > >
                    > > > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was
                    > trying to
                    > > > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd
                    > be
                    > > > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who
                    > at
                    > > > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter
                    > > > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't
                    > afford
                    > > > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so
                    > I
                    > > > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of
                    > all
                    > > > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the
                    > window.
                    > > > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
                    > > >
                    > > > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for
                    > John
                    > > > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that
                    > > > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
                    > > >
                    > > > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who
                    > wouldn't
                    > > > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also
                    > probably
                    > > > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the
                    > ticket -
                    > > > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not
                    > to
                    > > > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic
                    > women to
                    > > > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic
                    > beliefs.
                    > > > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the
                    > GOP
                    > > > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the
                    > next
                    > > > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
                    > > > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get
                    > some to
                    > > > vote - but that position and others related to it are
                    > specifically
                    > > > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will probably
                    > lose
                    > > > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get
                    > themselves to
                    > > > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the
                    > nomination
                    > > > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
                    > > >
                    > > > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                    > > >  
                    > > >
                    > > > It's always said that the most important decision a presidential
                    > > > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their
                    > > > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has
                    > just
                    > > > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified
                    > > > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the
                    > > > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to
                    > select
                    > > > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton
                    > supporters,
                    > > > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd
                    > Whitman,
                    > > > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for
                    > > > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these
                    > have
                    > > > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to
                    > run, but
                    > > > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the
                    > American
                    > > > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to
                    > be
                    > > > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could
                    > have
                    > > > been chosen.
                    > > >
                    > > > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is
                    > gross
                    > > > political misconduct.
                    > > >
                    > > > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18
                    > months.
                    > > > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include
                    > > > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in
                    > the
                    > > > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
                    > > >
                    > > > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000.
                    > I
                    > > > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is
                    > > > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
                    > > > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
                    > > > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure
                    > that
                    > > > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't
                    > expect
                    > > > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from U.S.
                    > > > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on
                    > the
                    > > > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair,
                    > it's
                    > > > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
                    > > > political signage.)
                    > > >
                    > > > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the
                    > mayor
                    > > > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at
                    > council
                    > > > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters
                    > before
                    > > > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in
                    > the
                    > > > case of a tie;
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
                    > > >
                    > > > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really
                    > small),
                    > > > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village
                    > > > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
                    > > >
                    > > > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah
                    > Palin
                    > > > the VP nominee is so terrible.
                    > > >
                    > > > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's
                    > a
                    > > > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level,
                    > her
                    > > > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the
                    > campaign -
                    > > > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying
                    > to
                    > > > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush,
                    > which
                    > > > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only
                    > been
                    > > > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14
                    > years in
                    > > > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running
                    > for
                    > > > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a
                    > history of
                    > > > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step
                    > in as
                    > > > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she
                    > makes
                    > > > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
                    > > > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
                    > > > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The
                    > national
                    > > > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All
                    > they
                    > > > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate
                    > is
                    > > > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against
                    > most
                    > > > things Democrats stand for."
                    > > >
                    > > > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                    > > >
                    > > > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for
                    > him
                    > > > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
                    > > > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it.
                    > She
                    > > > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's
                    > best
                    > > > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman
                    > > > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as
                    > the
                    > > > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a
                    > significant
                    > > > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and
                    > > > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
                    > > > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
                    > > >
                    > > > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                    > > >
                    > > > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is
                    > give
                    > > > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts
                    > America
                    > > > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of
                    > his
                    > > > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of
                    > honor.
                    > > > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
                    > > > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor
                    > as "blatantly
                    > > > pandering."
                    > > >
                    > > > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so
                    > terrible.
                    > > >
                    > > > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement
                    > to
                    > > > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee
                    > for
                    > > > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
                    > > >
                    > > > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down
                    > reading
                    > > > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama
                    > giving
                    > > > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative
                    > analysts
                    > > > were admiring in awe.
                    > > >
                    > > > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there
                    > were
                    > > > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a
                    > > > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night
                    > before.
                    > > >
                    > > > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about
                    > Sarah
                    > > > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the United
                    > > > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking
                    > about
                    > > > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
                    > > >
                    > > > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty
                    > much
                    > > > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And
                    > then,
                    > > > she basically stopped there.
                    > > >
                    > > > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by
                    > talking
                    > > > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to
                    > Republicans
                    > > > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so
                    > > > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
                    > > > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
                    > > > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
                    > > >
                    > > > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
                    > > > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one
                    > > > question oneveryone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is
                    > a
                    > > > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on
                    > everyone's
                    > > > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you
                    > > > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
                    > > >
                    > > > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the
                    > ticket was
                    > > > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be
                    > enough
                    > > > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the
                    > ticket.
                    > > > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because
                    > she
                    > > > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she
                    > was
                    > > > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important
                    > Democratic
                    > > > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise
                    > > > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
                    > > > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
                    > > >
                    > > > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head
                    > of
                    > > > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden
                    > when
                    > > > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in
                    > blunt
                    > > > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must
                    > have
                    > > > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
                    > > > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This
                    > isn't
                    > > > fair."
                    > > >
                    > > > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
                    > > >
                    > > > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or
                    > about
                    > > > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the
                    > balloons
                    > > > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still
                    > over
                    > > > two months to go for the campaign.
                    > > >
                    > > > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
                    > > >
                    > > > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it
                    > reinforces
                    > > > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a
                    > word
                    > > > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
                    > > > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly
                    > faulty
                    > > > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
                    > > >
                    > > > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John
                    > > > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday,
                    > when he
                    > > > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd
                    > sang
                    > > > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John
                    > McCain's
                    > > > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he
                    > was
                    > > > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the "How
                    > old
                    > > > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's
                    > saying he
                    > > > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
                    > > >
                    > > > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
                    > > > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's
                    > only
                    > > > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already
                    > done
                    > > > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain
                    > well
                    > > > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed.
                    > Didn't
                    > > > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal
                    > that
                    > > > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
                    > > >
                    > > > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the
                    > selection
                    > > > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by
                    > the
                    > > > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself
                    > to
                    > > > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in
                    > > > presidential politics.
                    > > >
                    > > > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
                    > > > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the
                    > > > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans
                    > were
                    > > > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
                    > > > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
                    > > > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her
                    > > > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as
                    > > > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's
                    > first
                    > > > decision.
                    > > >
                    > > > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
                    > > > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John
                    > > > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
                    > > >
                    > > > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a
                    > lot of
                    > > > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign
                    > has
                    > > > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and
                    > even
                    > > >> Kerry
                    > > >> lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
                    > > >> _it may all be decided by the ("progressive") voter
                    > registration and
                    > > >> turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
                    > > >> decisive!),
                    > > >> until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
                    > > >> But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for Barack
                    > > >> Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come back...
                    > > >>
                    > > >> The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
                    > > >> 'rightest'
                    > > >> of them don't like him at all...
                    > > >> Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative
                    > and
                    > > >> even
                    > > >> exciting...so far...
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
                    > > >> McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is an
                    > Ivy
                    > > >> League guy who is a war critic.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin has
                    > 5
                    > > >> kids,
                    > > >> and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
                    > > >> and anti-abortion...and her husband is an all-American kinda
                    > guy...
                    > > >>
                    > > >> The race is now 50-50...
                    > > >> For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
                    > > >> here...McCain/Obama, Biden/Palin...especially the latter!
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Best, Neal
                    > > >>
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Katherine Knowles
                    yes, that is the dialogue I was hoping for...I do not believe for a minute that she is inexperienced ...and this is the direction we need to look, not at her
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      yes, that is the dialogue I was hoping for...I do not believe for a
                      minute that she is "inexperienced"...and this is the direction we need
                      to look, not at her soccer momming and her small town girl appeal....we
                      go in the wrong direction if we follow the mainstream deprecators and
                      buy the labels she wears. The soccer mom appeal WILL win votes and
                      that is what is so dangerous. Thank you.
                      On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Dan Leighton wrote:

                      > The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her being a
                      > woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican party Rush Limbaugh
                      > proudly calls her, a "babe."
                      >
                      > This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous choice by McCain, and
                      > given how she will activate the Christian Right base, and be
                      > championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil propaganda apparatus, from
                      > FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly likely that we will have
                      > President Palin within the next 4 years (given McCain's health and
                      > age). 
                      > With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard for him to get
                      > elected.
                      >
                      > She has deep ties to the fanatic Christian Right, the Oil industry,
                      > and has acted in a Rovian, dictatorial manner in her official
                      > capacity.  She also wants to outlaw abortion, even in cases of rape
                      > and incest, or when the mother's life is in danger.
                      >
                      > Some info sources:
                      > First, on her fundamentalist Christian extremism, see Huffington Post:
                      > "Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview"
                      > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-
                      > sh_n_123205.html
                      > Please read the whole story.
                      > Some excerpts-
                      >
                      > Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war
                      > in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out
                      > the will of the Lord.
                      >
                      > "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is
                      > right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders,
                      > are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she
                      > exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're
                      > praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."
                      >
                      > Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in Palin's foreign
                      > policy. It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to
                      > discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for
                      > another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she
                      > wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in
                      > unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for
                      > that," she said.
                      >
                      >
                      > Her Wasilia Assembly of God Pastor Ed Kainins makes Jeremiah Wright
                      > seem mild-mannered and moderate.
                      >
                      > Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be
                      > banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John
                      > Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11
                      > terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for
                      > your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war
                      > mode." ...
                      > Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over
                      > the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina. "I hate
                      > criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like
                      > criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to
                      > get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get
                      > you."
                      >
                      > Much of his support for the current administration has come in the
                      > realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks
                      > and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian
                      > faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be
                      > willing to sacrifice their lives.
                      >
                      > He preaches repeatedly about the "end times" or "last days," an
                      > apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian
                      > leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I
                      > believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and
                      > hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek
                      > refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them."
                      > He also claims to have received direct "words of knowledge" from God,
                      > providing him information about past events in other people's lives.
                      >
                      >
                      > As to Palin's actual record, see the following stories from Randi
                      > Rhodes (despite her ranting style, one of our few remaining
                      > investigative journalists, along with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now,
                      > arrested this week at the RNC).
                      > Check out the links.
                      > Especially see the link about her vicious use of her powers, & efforts
                      > to ban books from the local library.
                      > From: http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/
                      >
                      > Do you think she’ll include the title her little town won?  “METH
                      > CAPITAL OF ALASKA” That’s right, in 2003 the Mat-Su area (Wasilla
                      > Alaska) authorities uncovered 9 Meth labs. By 2004 the number of meth
                      > labs in Wasilla jumped to 42!
                      > http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/030805/sta_20050308002.shtml
                      >
                      >
                      > Meth Lab Cleanup in Wasilla IS BIG BUSINESS
                      > http://homemethtestkit.com/index.php?q=99629
                      >
                      >
                      > Meanwhile the Wasilla police were conducting raids with automatic
                      > weapons on POKER GAMES?
                      > McGregor knew many of the people arrested in the Wasilla raid two
                      > weeks ago. He said he's been told that there were as many as 20 police
                      > officers - armed with automatic weapons - involved in the bust. He
                      > said he can't understand why police are using valuable resources to
                      > arrest otherwise law-abiding citizens for gambling with their own
                      > money. Aren't we the meth capital of Alaska?” he asks. “Why are we
                      > busting poker games? No one is going to Gestapo-style raid your house
                      > on Super Bowl Sunday” '
                      > http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2007/04/29/news/news6.txt
                      > And Sarah was BANNING BOOKS in the Wasilla library.
                      >
                      >
                      > Mayor/Dictator
                      > Sarah Palin brought Rovian tactics to a small town Mayor's race. Once
                      > in office, she governed with an iron...far right, Christian
                      > conservative....fist. Right down to the books she wanted banned from
                      > the Wasilla library
                      > http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html?
                      > imw=Y
                      >
                      >
                      > OR THAT SHE REFUSES TO PAY HER TAXES??
                      > Palin failed to declare a business she owned.  The business was
                      > dissolved by the state for non payment of fees owed.  She also started
                      > a failed Marketing Company named Rouge Cou.  Translated from THE
                      > FRENCH it means “Red neck”
                      > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing
                      > _car_wash.html
                      >
                      >
                      > The letter advising her that she failed to pay States fees owed on her
                      > business (a car wash) was written on her own letterhead?
                      > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/warningletter
                      > 20070211.pdf
                      >
                      >
                      > Even John McCain criticized Sarah Palin’s addiction to PORK
                      > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-earmarks3-2008
                      > sep03,0,284198.story
                      >
                      >
                      > Frozen Pork Barrel: $27 Million in Fed Funds For a Town Of 5,000
                      > Despite their oil wealth, Alaskan pols are experts at dipping into
                      > federal funding. Ted Stevens mastered it. His protégé' Sarah Palin was
                      > getting good too.
                      > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/
                      > AR2008090103148.html?hpid=topnews
                      >
                      >
                      > 3 Degrees of Separation: Sarah Palin-Steven Silver-Jack Abramoff
                      > In addition to being Ted Stevens' chief of staff, Mayor Palin's
                      > lobbyist Steven Silver was an Abramoff confidant
                      > http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palins_lobbyist
                      > has_abramoff_t.php
                      >
                      >
                      > Alaska #3 on The Federal Spending List.......
                      > For every buck they send in taxes, the get almost two back.
                      > http://www..taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...> wrote:
                      > From: Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
                      >> all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
                      >> clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an
                      >> American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                      >> choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                      >> qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of those
                      >> "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                      >> Perhaps,
                      >>
                      >> in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                      >> expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                      >> experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called for,
                      >> instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                      >> unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
                      >> quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would never
                      >> have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                      >> On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:
                      >>
                      >> >  
                      >> >
                      >> > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                      >> >  
                      >> >
                      >> > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                      >> >
                      >> > Robert J. Elisberg
                      >> >
                      >> > Huffingtonpost.com
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you
                      >> > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it
                      >> is
                      >>
                      >> > drenched.
                      >> >
                      >> > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                      >> candidate
                      >> > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
                      >> > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O.
                      >> > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Jeffrey Sokolow
                      Tony: My crowd went part of the way with LBJ in 1964, then rejected electoral politics altogether. Later some us us followed the dead-end third party will
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Tony: My crowd went "part of the way with LBJ" in 1964, then rejected
                        electoral politics altogether. Later some us us followed the dead-end
                        third party will o'the wisp, the perennial hope that "this time" the
                        masses would awaken and see the light of truth. No thanks, been
                        there, done that. I'm ready to go 95% of the way with Obama in 2008
                        and won't waste my ballot by voting for a protest candidate. The
                        stakes are too high. You can't possibly think Gore would have been as
                        bad as Bush, can you? If you can't see a differnce between Obama and
                        McCain, you're beyond my help! The Baby Boomer culture war is in its
                        last gasp. Frankly, I'm ready for postmodern political conversation.
                        -- Jef

                        --- In CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com, a.gronowicz@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Big oil is behind both Biden and Palin.   Vote third party as King
                        and Spock were planning a joint run in 1968 before CIA derailed that
                        effort.  We need to build a third party that speaks to the needs of
                        the people and the environment.
                        >
                        > Tony www.greenmayor.org
                        >
                        >    -------------- Original message from "Jeffrey Sokolow"
                        <jsokolow@...>: --------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Sorry, Kathy, can't go along.
                        >
                        > McLame = quasi-fascist with male sex organs
                        > Palin = quasi-fascist with female sex organs
                        >
                        > The "f-word" I'm concerned about is not "female" but "fascist."
                        >
                        > I don't like Christian fascism anymore than Islamic fascism or any
                        > other kind of fascism. Her speech last night was pure red meat to
                        the
                        > small thinking, small town, smugly pious rightwing Christian
                        > fundamentalist base of the GOP. The thought of her finger on or
                        > anywhere near the nuclear trigger is terrifying. And this is just
                        > what she's showing; what's underneath the surface is far worse.
                        >
                        > So she's a hockey mom. Big deal. And Clarence Thomas is black. So
                        > what? Let's look at content, not surface characteristics. The point
                        > is not what she is but what she thinks and does. Fishing for
                        women's
                        > votes with an anti-feminist, anti-choice, anti-gay woman is a joke.
                        >
                        > -- Jeff
                        > --- In CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy
                        is
                        > > clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and
                        as
                        > an
                        > > American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                        > > choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                        > > qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of
                        > those
                        > > "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                        > Perhaps,
                        > > in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                        > > expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                        > > experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called
                        > for,
                        > > instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                        > > unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not
                        be
                        > > quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would
                        > never
                        > > have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                        > > On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >  
                        > > >
                        > > > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                        > > >  
                        > > >
                        > > > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                        > > >
                        > > > Robert J. Elisberg
                        > > >
                        > > > Huffingtonpost.com
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see
                        > you
                        > > > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that
                        > it is
                        > > > drenched.
                        > > >
                        > > > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                        > candidate
                        > > > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be
                        fair,
                        > > > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William
                        > O.
                        > > > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                        > > >
                        > > > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator.
                        > Worse
                        > > > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress
                        for
                        > > > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so
                        > obscure
                        > > > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did
                        an
                        > > > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that
                        > was ad
                        > > > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman
                        > for 12
                        > > > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials
                        > against
                        > > > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
                        > > >
                        > > > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was
                        > trying to
                        > > > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd
                        > be
                        > > > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who
                        > at
                        > > > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the
                        latter
                        > > > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't
                        > afford
                        > > > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And
                        so
                        > I
                        > > > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser
                        of
                        > all
                        > > > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the
                        > window.
                        > > > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
                        > > >
                        > > > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for
                        > John
                        > > > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking
                        that
                        > > > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
                        > > >
                        > > > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who
                        > wouldn't
                        > > > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also
                        > probably
                        > > > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the
                        > ticket -
                        > > > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not
                        > to
                        > > > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic
                        > women to
                        > > > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic
                        > beliefs.
                        > > > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the
                        > GOP
                        > > > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for
                        the
                        > next
                        > > > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
                        > > > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get
                        > some to
                        > > > vote - but that position and others related to it are
                        > specifically
                        > > > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will
                        probably
                        > lose
                        > > > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get
                        > themselves to
                        > > > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the
                        > nomination
                        > > > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
                        > > >
                        > > > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                        > > >  
                        > > >
                        > > > It's always said that the most important decision a
                        presidential
                        > > > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows
                        their
                        > > > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has
                        > just
                        > > > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most
                        qualified
                        > > > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all
                        the
                        > > > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to
                        > select
                        > > > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton
                        > supporters,
                        > > > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd
                        > Whitman,
                        > > > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even -
                        for
                        > > > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of
                        these
                        > have
                        > > > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to
                        > run, but
                        > > > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the
                        > American
                        > > > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women
                        to
                        > be
                        > > > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who
                        could
                        > have
                        > > > been chosen.
                        > > >
                        > > > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is
                        > gross
                        > > > political misconduct.
                        > > >
                        > > > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18
                        > months.
                        > > > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't
                        include
                        > > > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most
                        populous city in
                        > the
                        > > > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
                        > > >
                        > > > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population
                        9,000.
                        > I
                        > > > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this
                        is
                        > > > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
                        > > > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
                        > > > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm
                        sure
                        > that
                        > > > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't
                        > expect
                        > > > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from
                        U.S.
                        > > > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on
                        > the
                        > > > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be
                        fair,
                        > it's
                        > > > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
                        > > > political signage.)
                        > > >
                        > > > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the
                        > mayor
                        > > > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at
                        > council
                        > > > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters
                        > before
                        > > > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote
                        in
                        > the
                        > > > case of a tie;
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
                        > > >
                        > > > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really
                        > small),
                        > > > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or
                        village
                        > > > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
                        > > >
                        > > > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make
                        Sarah
                        > Palin
                        > > > the VP nominee is so terrible.
                        > > >
                        > > > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is.
                        That's
                        > a
                        > > > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level,
                        > her
                        > > > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the
                        > campaign -
                        > > > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been
                        trying
                        > to
                        > > > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush,
                        > which
                        > > > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only
                        > been
                        > > > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14
                        > years in
                        > > > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely
                        running
                        > for
                        > > > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a
                        > history of
                        > > > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step
                        > in as
                        > > > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that
                        she
                        > makes
                        > > > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
                        > > > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
                        > > > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The
                        > national
                        > > > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing.
                        All
                        > they
                        > > > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate
                        > is
                        > > > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against
                        > most
                        > > > things Democrats stand for."
                        > > >
                        > > > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                        > > >
                        > > > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for
                        > him
                        > > > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
                        > > > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is
                        it.
                        > She
                        > > > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary
                        Clinton's
                        > best
                        > > > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading
                        woman
                        > > > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman
                        as
                        > the
                        > > > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a
                        > significant
                        > > > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box
                        and
                        > > > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
                        > > > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                        > > >
                        > > > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible
                        is
                        > give
                        > > > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts
                        > America
                        > > > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of
                        > his
                        > > > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of
                        > honor.
                        > > > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
                        > > > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor
                        > as "blatantly
                        > > > pandering."
                        > > >
                        > > > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so
                        > terrible.
                        > > >
                        > > > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual
                        announcement
                        > to
                        > > > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican
                        nominee
                        > for
                        > > > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
                        > > >
                        > > > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down
                        > reading
                        > > > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama
                        > giving
                        > > > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative
                        > analysts
                        > > > were admiring in awe.
                        > > >
                        > > > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there
                        > were
                        > > > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to
                        a
                        > > > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night
                        > before.
                        > > >
                        > > > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about
                        > Sarah
                        > > > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the
                        United
                        > > > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking
                        > about
                        > > > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
                        > > >
                        > > > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications,
                        pretty
                        > much
                        > > > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes.
                        And
                        > then,
                        > > > she basically stopped there.
                        > > >
                        > > > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by
                        > talking
                        > > > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to
                        > Republicans
                        > > > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not
                        so
                        > > > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
                        > > > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
                        > > > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
                        > > >
                        > > > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
                        > > > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the
                        one
                        > > > question oneveryone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain
                        is
                        > a
                        > > > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on
                        > everyone's
                        > > > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why
                        you
                        > > > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
                        > > >
                        > > > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the
                        > ticket was
                        > > > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be
                        > enough
                        > > > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the
                        > ticket.
                        > > > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely
                        because
                        > she
                        > > > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because
                        she
                        > was
                        > > > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important
                        > Democratic
                        > > > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to
                        praise
                        > > > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
                        > > > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
                        > > >
                        > > > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be
                        head
                        > of
                        > > > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe
                        Biden
                        > when
                        > > > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining
                        in
                        > blunt
                        > > > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must
                        > have
                        > > > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
                        > > > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This
                        > isn't
                        > > > fair."
                        > > >
                        > > > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
                        > > >
                        > > > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or
                        > about
                        > > > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the
                        > balloons
                        > > > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are
                        still
                        > over
                        > > > two months to go for the campaign.
                        > > >
                        > > > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
                        > > >
                        > > > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it
                        > reinforces
                        > > > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes
                        a
                        > word
                        > > > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
                        > > > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly
                        > faulty
                        > > > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
                        > > >
                        > > > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on
                        John
                        > > > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday,
                        > when he
                        > > > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the
                        crowd
                        > sang
                        > > > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John
                        > McCain's
                        > > > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he
                        > was
                        > > > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing
                        the "How
                        > old
                        > > > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's
                        > saying he
                        > > > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
                        > > >
                        > > > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
                        > > > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's
                        > only
                        > > > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already
                        > done
                        > > > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John
                        McCain
                        > well
                        > > > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed.
                        > Didn't
                        > > > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal
                        > that
                        > > > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
                        > > >
                        > > > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the
                        > selection
                        > > > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by
                        > the
                        > > > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for
                        himself
                        > to
                        > > > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster
                        in
                        > > > presidential politics.
                        > > >
                        > > > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
                        > > > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on
                        the
                        > > > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans
                        > were
                        > > > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
                        > > > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
                        > > > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign.
                        Her
                        > > > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing
                        as
                        > > > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's
                        > first
                        > > > decision.
                        > > >
                        > > > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
                        > > > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of
                        John
                        > > > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all
                        that.
                        > > >
                        > > > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a
                        > lot of
                        > > > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual
                        campaign
                        > has
                        > > > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and
                        > even
                        > > >> Kerry
                        > > >> lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
                        > > >> _it may all be decided by the ("progressive") voter
                        > registration and
                        > > >> turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends!
                        > > >>
                        > > >> _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
                        > > >> decisive!),
                        > > >> until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
                        > > >> But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for
                        Barack
                        > > >> Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come
                        back...
                        > > >>
                        > > >> The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
                        > > >> 'rightest'
                        > > >> of them don't like him at all...
                        > > >> Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative
                        > and
                        > > >> even
                        > > >> exciting...so far...
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
                        > > >> McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is
                        an
                        > Ivy
                        > > >> League guy who is a war critic.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin
                        has
                        > 5
                        > > >> kids,
                        > > >> and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
                        > > >> and anti-abortion...and her husband is an all-American kinda
                        > guy...
                        > > >>
                        > > >> The race is now 50-50...
                        > > >> For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
                        > > >> here...McCain/Obama, Biden/Palin...especially the latter!
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Best, Neal
                        > > >>
                        > >
                        >
                      • a.gronowicz@att.net
                        Jweff, We are building an alternative as King and Spock recognized.  The longer it takes, the worse it will get, as has consistently been the case for the
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Jweff,

                          We are building an alternative as King and Spock recognized.  The longer it takes, the worse it will get, as has consistently been the case for the past forty years with respect to the quality of the average American life and the destruction of the environment.  

                          This is because the current two-party system is the war party system.  That is clear from the current rhetoric and record of all four candidates of the duopoly. 

                          Gore?!  If Gore had won, we would be looking at Lieberman running for President today.  He picked the ONLY Democratic Senator who supports the Republican candidate for President.

                          However, if you would like more history, I will be happy to provide it.  Just remember it was Democratic Presidents who brought us the four wars of the twentieth century that cost the most American lives. 

                          Tony 

                           
                          -------------- Original message from "Jeffrey Sokolow" <jsokolow@...>: --------------

                          Tony: My crowd went "part of the way with LBJ" in 1964, then rejected
                          electoral politics altogether. Later some us us followed the dead-end
                          third party will o'the wisp, the perennial hope that "this time" the
                          masses would awaken and see the light of truth. No thanks, been
                          there, done that. I'm ready to go 95% of the way with Obama in 2008
                          and won't waste my ballot by voting for a protest candidate. The
                          stakes are too high. You can't possibly think Gore would have been as
                          bad as Bush, can you? If you can't see a differnce between Obama and
                          McCain, you're beyond my help! The Baby Boomer culture war is in its
                          last gasp. Frankly, I'm ready for postmodern political conversation.
                          -- Jef

                          --- In CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com, a.gronowicz@ ... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Big oil is behind both Biden and Palin.   Vote third party as King
                          and Spock were planning a joint run in 1968 before CIA derailed that
                          effort.  We need to build a third party that speaks to the needs of
                          the people and the environment.
                          >
                          > Tony www.greenmayor. org
                          >
                          >    ------------ -- Original message from "Jeffrey Sokolow"
                          <jsokolow@.. .>: ------------ --
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Sorry, Kathy, can't go along.
                          >
                          > McLame = quasi-fascist with male sex organs
                          > Palin = quasi-fascist with female sex organs
                          >
                          > The "f-word" I'm concerned about is not "female" but "fascist."
                          >
                          > I don't like Christian fascism anymore than Islamic fascism or any
                          > other kind of fascism. Her speech last night was pure red meat to
                          the
                          > small thinking, small town, smugly pious rightwing Christian
                          > fundamentalist base of the GOP. The thought of her finger on or
                          > anywhere near the nuclear trigger is terrifying. And this is just
                          > what she's showing; what's underneath the surface is far worse.
                          >
                          > So she's a hockey mom. Big deal. And Clarence Thomas is black. So
                          > what? Let's look at content, not surface characteristics. The point
                          > is not what she is but what she thinks and does. Fishing for
                          women's
                          > votes with an anti-feminist, anti-choice, anti-gay woman is a joke.
                          >
                          > -- Jeff
                          > --- In CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy
                          is
                          > > clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and
                          as
                          > an
                          > > American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                          > > choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                          > > qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of
                          > those
                          > > "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                          > Perhaps,
                          > > in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                          > > expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                          > > experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called
                          > for,
                          > > instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                          > > unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not
                          be
                          > > quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would
                          > never
                          > > have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                          > > On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >  
                          > > >
                          > > > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                          > > >  
                          > > >
                          > > > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                          > > >
                          > > > Robert J. Elisberg
                          > > >
                          > > > Huffingtonpost. com
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see
                          > you
                          > > > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that
                          > it is
                          > > > drenched.
                          > > >
                          > > > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                          > candidate
                          > > > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be
                          fair,
                          > > > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William
                          > O.
                          > > > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                          > > >
                          > > > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator.
                          > Worse
                          > > > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress
                          for
                          > > > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so
                          > obscure
                          > > > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did
                          an
                          > > > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that
                          > was ad
                          > > > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman
                          > for 12
                          > > > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials
                          > against
                          > > > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
                          > > >
                          > > > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was
                          > trying to
                          > > > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd
                          > be
                          > > > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who
                          > at
                          > > > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the
                          latter
                          > > > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't
                          > afford
                          > > > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And
                          so
                          > I
                          > > > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser
                          of
                          > all
                          > > > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the
                          > window.
                          > > > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
                          > > >
                          > > > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for
                          > John
                          > > > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking
                          that
                          > > > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
                          > > >
                          > > > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who
                          > wouldn't
                          > > > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also
                          > probably
                          > > > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the
                          > ticket -
                          > > > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not
                          > to
                          > > > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic
                          > women to
                          > > > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic
                          > beliefs.
                          > > > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the
                          > GOP
                          > > > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for
                          the
                          > next
                          > > > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
                          > > > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get
                          > some to
                          > > > vote - but that position and others related to it are
                          > specifically
                          > > > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will
                          probably
                          > lose
                          > > > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get
                          > themselves to
                          > > > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the
                          > nomination
                          > > > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
                          > > >
                          > > > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                          > > >  
                          > > >
                          > > > It's always said that the most important decision a
                          presidential
                          > > > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows
                          their
                          > > > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has
                          > just
                          > > > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most
                          qualified
                          > > > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all
                          the
                          > > > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to
                          > select
                          > > > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton
                          > supporters,
                          > > > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd
                          > Whitman,
                          > > > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even -
                          for
                          > > > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of
                          these
                          > have
                          > > > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to
                          > run, but
                          > > > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the
                          > American
                          > > > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women
                          to
                          > be
                          > > > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who
                          could
                          > have
                          > > > been chosen.
                          > > >
                          > > > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is
                          > gross
                          > > > political misconduct.
                          > > >
                          > > > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18
                          > months.
                          > > > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't
                          include
                          > > > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most
                          populous city  in
                          > the
                          > > > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
                          > > >
                          > > > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population
                          9,000.
                          > I
                          > > > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this
                          is
                          > > > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
                          > > > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
                          > > > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm
                          sure
                          > that
                          > > > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't
                          > expect
                          > > > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from
                          U.S.
                          > > > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on
                          > the
                          > > > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be
                          fair,
                          > it's
                          > > > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
                          > > > political signage.)
                          > > >
                          > > > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the
                          > mayor
                          > > > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at
                          > council
                          > > > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters
                          > before
                          > > > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote
                          in
                          > the
                          > > > case of a tie;
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
                          > > >
                          > > > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really
                          > small),
                          > > > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or
                          village
                          > > > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
                          > > >
                          > > > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make
                          Sarah
                          > Palin
                          > > > the VP nominee is so terrible.
                          > > >
                          > > > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is.
                          That's
                          > a
                          > > > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level,
                          > her
                          > > > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the
                          > campaign -
                          > > > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been
                          trying
                          > to
                          > > > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush,
                          > which
                          > > > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only
                          > been
                          > > > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14
                          > years in
                          > > > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely
                          running
                          > for
                          > > > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a
                          > history of
                          > > > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step
                          > in as
                          > > > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that
                          she
                          > makes
                          > > > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
                          > > > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
                          > > > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The
                          > national
                          > > > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing.
                          All
                          > they
                          > > > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate
                          > is
                          > > > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against
                          > most
                          > > > things Democrats stand for."
                          > > >
                          > > > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                          > > >
                          > > > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for
                          > him
                          > > > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
                          > > > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is
                          it.
                          > She
                          > > > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary
                          Clinton's
                          > best
                          > > > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading
                          woman
                          > > > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman
                          as
                          > the
                          > > > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a
                          > significant
                          > > > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box
                          and
                          > > > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
                          > > > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
                          > > >
                          > > > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                          > > >
                          > > > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible
                          is
                          > give
                          > > > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts
                          > America
                          > > > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of
                          > his
                          > > > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of
                          > honor.
                          > > > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
                          > > > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor
                          > as "blatantly
                          > > > pandering."
                          > > >
                          > > > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so
                          > terrible.
                          > > >
                          > > > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual
                          announcement
                          > to
                          > > > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican
                          nominee
                          > for
                          > > > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
                          > > >
                          > > > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down
                          > reading
                          > > > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama
                          > giving
                          > > > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative
                          > analysts
                          > > > were admiring in awe.
                          > > >
                          > > > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there
                          > were
                          > > > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to
                          a
                          > > > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night
                          > before.
                          > > >
                          > > > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about
                          > Sarah
                          > > > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the
                          United
                          > > > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking
                          > about
                          > > > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
                          > > >
                          > > > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications,
                          pretty
                          > much
                          > > > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes.
                          And
                          > then,
                          > > > she basically stopped there.
                          > > >
                          > > > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by
                          > talking
                          > > > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to
                          > Republicans
                          > > > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not
                          so
                          > > > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
                          > > > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
                          > > > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
                          > > >
                          > > > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
                          > > > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the
                          one
                          > > > question oneveryone's  mind was not -- "can you say John McCain
                          is
                          > a
                          > > > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on
                          > everyone's
                          > > > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why
                          you
                          > > > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
                          > > >
                          > > > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the
                          > ticket was
                          > > > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be
                          > enough
                          > > > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the
                          > ticket.
                          > > > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely
                          because
                          > she
                          > > > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because
                          she
                          > was
                          > > > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important
                          > Democratic
                          > > > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to
                          praise
                          > > > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
                          > > > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
                          > > >
                          > > > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be
                          head
                          > of
                          > > > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe
                          Biden
                          > when
                          > > > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining
                          in
                          > blunt
                          > > > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must
                          > have
                          > > > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
                          > > > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This
                          > isn't
                          > > > fair."
                          > > >
                          > > > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
                          > > >
                          > > > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or
                          > about
                          > > > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the
                          > balloons
                          > > > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are
                          still
                          > over
                          > > > two months to go for the campaign.
                          > > >
                          > > > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
                          > > >
                          > > > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it
                          > reinforces
                          > > > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes
                          a
                          > word
                          > > > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
                          > > > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly
                          > faulty
                          > > > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
                          > > >
                          > > > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on
                          John
                          > > > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday,
                          > when he
                          > > > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the
                          crowd
                          > sang
                          > > > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John
                          > McCain's
                          > > > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he
                          > was
                          > > > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing
                          the "How
                          > old
                          > > > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's
                          > saying he
                          > > > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
                          > > >
                          > > > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
                          > > > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's
                          > only
                          > > > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already
                          > done
                          > > > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John
                          McCain
                          > well
                          > > > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed.
                          > Didn't
                          > > > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal
                          > that
                          > > > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
                          > > >
                          > > > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the
                          > selection
                          > > > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by
                          > the
                          > > > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for
                          himself
                          > to
                          > > > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster
                          in
                          > > > presidential politics.
                          > > >
                          > > > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
                          > > > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on
                          the
                          > > > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans
                          > were
                          > > > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
                          > > > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
                          > > > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign.
                          Her
                          > > > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing
                          as
                          > > > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's
                          > first
                          > > > decision.
                          > > >
                          > > > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
                          > > > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of
                          John
                          > > > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all
                          that.
                          > > >
                          > > > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a
                          > lot of
                          > > > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual
                          campaign
                          > has
                          > > > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >>
                          > > >>
                          > > >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and
                          > even
                          > > >> Kerry
                          > > >> lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
                          > > >> _it may all be decided by the ("progressive" ) voter
                          > registration and
                          > > >> turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends !
                          > > >>
                          > > >> _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
                          > > >> decisive!),
                          > > >> until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
                          > > >> But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for
                          Barack
                          > > >> Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come
                          back...
                          > > >>
                          > > >> The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
                          > > >> 'rightest'
                          > > >> of them don't like him at all...
                          > > >> Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative
                          > and
                          > > >> even
                          > > >> exciting...so far...
                          > > >>
                          > > >> Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
                          > > >> McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is
                          an
                          > Ivy
                          > > >> League guy who is a war critic.
                          > > >>
                          > > >> Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin
                          has
                          > 5
                          > > >> kids,
                          > > >> and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
                          > > >> and anti-abortion. ..and her husband is an all-American kinda
                          > guy...
                          > > >>
                          > > >> The race is now 50-50...
                          > > >> For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
                          > > >> here...McCain/ Obama, Biden/Palin. ..especially the latter!
                          > > >>
                          > > >> Best, Neal
                          > > >>
                          > >
                          >

                        • a.gronowicz@att.net
                          Forgive me for the misspelling of your name-- is it Jef as you posted in your last e-mail? But meanwhile,   DEMOCRACY NOW! DAILY EMAIL DIGESTSeptember 4,
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Forgive me for the misspelling of your name-- is it Jef as you posted in your last e-mail?

                            But meanwhile, 

                             DEMOCRACY NOW! DAILY EMAIL DIGEST
                            September 4, 2008
                            
                            = = = = = = = = =
                            
                            UPDATE Action Alert: DN! Journalists Facing Charges for Reporting on the
                            Republican National Convention
                            
                            - Charges against Amy Goodman still hold; Nicole Salazar and Sharif
                            Abdel Kouddous could still be charged with FELONY RIOT
                            - Please take immediate action to have the charges dropped
                            
                            CONTACT THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE - DEMAND THAT ALL CHARGES OR POTENTIAL
                            CHARGES BE IMMEDIATELY DROPPED:
                            Ramsey County Attorney Susan Gaertner
                            janet.hafner@... and
                            susan.gaertner@...
                            (cc: dropthecharges at democracynow.org)
                            651-266-3079
                            
                            Susan Gaertner for Governor
                            info at susangaertner.com (cc: dropthecharges at democracynow.org)
                            (612) 978-8625
                            (612)804-6156
                            
                            St. Paul Mayor Christopher B. Coleman
                            chris.coleman@...
                            Bob.Hume@...
                            sara.grewing@...
                            (cc: dropthecharges at democracynow.org)
                            
                            Make your voice heard in the Ramsey County Attorney and St. Paul Mayor’s
                            offices. Demand that they drop all pending and current charges against
                            journalists arrested while reporting on protests outside the Republican
                            National Conventions.
                            
                            The Ramsey County Attorney’s office is in the process of deciding
                            whether or not to press felony P.C. (probable cause) riot charges
                            against Democracy Now! Producers Sharif Abdel Kouddous and Nicole
                            Salazar. Please contact Ramsey County Attorney Susan Gaertner by all
                            means possible to demand that her office not press charges against
                            Kouddous and Salazar.
                            
                            The St. Paul City Attorney’s office has already charged Amy Goodman with
                            misdemeanor obstruction of a legal process and interference with a peace
                            officer. Contact St. Paul Mayor Christopher Coleman by all means
                            possible to demand that the charges against Goodman be dropped immediately.
                            
                            Goodman was arrested while questioning police about the unlawful
                            detention of Kouddous and Salazar who were arrested while they carried
                            out their journalistic duties in covering street demonstrations at the
                            Republican National Convention.
                            
                            During the demonstration in which the Democracy Now! team was arrested,
                            law enforcement officers used pepper spray, rubber bullets, concussion
                            grenades and excessive force against protesters and journalists. Several
                            dozen demonstrators were also arrested during this action, as was a
                            photographer for the Associated Press.
                            
                            
                            IMPORTANT
                            Be sure to cc: dropthecharges@... on all emails so that our
                            team can deliver print outs of your messages to the St. Paul City
                            Attorney, the Mayor and Ramsey County Attorney offices.
                            
                            = = = = = = = = =
                            
                            * Read Amy Goodman's latest column *
                            
                            "Why We Were Falsely Arrested"
                            
                            http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080903_why_we_were_falsely_arrested/
                            
                            Consider writing your local newspaper and asking for them to carry the column, 
                            distributed by King Features.  Many papers across the US have done so already.
                            
                            If you see the column in your paper, please mail us a copy of the full page, to:
                            
                            Democracy Now!
                            100 Lafayette St
                            New York, NY 10013
                            
                            Thank you!
                            
                            = = = = = = = = =
                            
                            * Jobs at DN! *
                            
                            Democracy Now! is hiring for the following positions:
                            
                            
                            Systems Administrator
                            Manager for Spanish Programming & Outreach
                            
                            For more information visit http://www.democracynow.org/about/jobs
                            
                            = = = = = = = = =
                            
                            TODAY'S DEMOCRACY NOW!:
                            
                            * Eight Members of RNC Activist Group Lodged with Terrorism Charges *
                            
                            Ramsey County prosecutors have formally charged eight members of a prominent 
                            activist group with conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism. The eight 
                            members of the RNC Welcoming Committee are believed to be the first persons ever 
                            charged under the 2002 Minnesota version of the federal PATRIOT Act. The 
                            activists face up to seven-and-a-half years in prison. We speak with the father 
                            of one of those charged and the president of the Minnesota chapter of the 
                            National Lawyers Guild.
                            
                            Listen/Watch/Read
                            http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/4/eight_members_of_rnc_activist_group
                            
                            
                            * I-Witness Video Collective Forced Out of Living Space After Second Raid by St. 
                            Paul Police in Five Days *
                            
                            Police in St. Paul are being accused of continuing to intimidate a group of 
                            video makers that traveled to the Twin Cities to document police misconduct 
                            during the Republican National Convention. On Saturday, police raided a home 
                            where members of the I-Witness Video collective were staying. Members of the 
                            group were detained for over two hours. The building’s landlord forced the group 
                            to move out yesterday after police armed with batons and a battering ram entered 
                            their living space for a second time.
                            
                            Listen/Watch/Read
                            http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/4/i_witness_video_collective_forced_out
                            
                            
                            * Voices of the Delegates: Jeremy Scahill Goes Inside the RNC *
                            
                            Democracy Now! correspondent Jeremy Scahill goes inside the RNC to take the 
                            pulse of what delegates think and how Sarah Palin has spiced up an otherwise 
                            sedated affair.
                            
                            Listen/Watch/Read
                            http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/4/voices_of_the_delegates_jeremy_scahill
                            
                            -------------- Original message from a.gronowicz@...: --------------

                            Jweff,

                            We are building an alternative as King and Spock recognized.  The longer it takes, the worse it will get, as has consistently been the case for the past forty years with respect to the quality of the average American life and the destruction of the environment.  

                            This is because the current two-party system is the war party system.  That is clear from the current rhetoric and record of all four candidates of the duopoly. 

                            Gore?!  If Gore had won, we would be looking at Lieberman running for President today.  He picked the ONLY Democratic Senator who supports the Republican candidate for President.

                            However, if you would like more history, I will be happy to provide it.  Just remember it was Democratic Presidents who brought us the four wars of the twentieth century that cost the most American lives. 

                            Tony 

                             
                            -------------- Original message from "Jeffrey Sokolow" <jsokolow@...>: --------------

                            Tony: My crowd went "part of the way with LBJ" in 1964, then rejected
                            electoral politics altogether. Later some us us followed the dead-end
                            third party will o'the wisp, the perennial hope that "this time" the
                            masses would awaken and see the light of truth. No thanks, been
                            there, done that. I'm ready to go 95% of the way with Obama in 2008
                            and won't waste my ballot by voting for a protest candidate. The
                            stakes are too high. You can't possibly think Gore would have been as
                            bad as Bush, can you? If you can't see a differnce between Obama and
                            McCain, you're beyond my help! The Baby Boomer culture war is in its
                            last gasp. Frankly, I'm ready for postmodern political conversation.
                            -- Jef

                            --- In CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com, a.gronowicz@ ... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Big oil is behind both Biden and Palin.   Vote third party as King
                            and Spock were planning a joint run in 1968 before CIA derailed that
                            effort.  We need to build a third party that speaks to the needs of
                            the people and the environment.
                            >
                            > Tony www.greenmayor. org
                            >
                            >    ------------ -- Original message from "Jeffrey Sokolow"
                            <jsokolow@.. .>: ------------ --
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Sorry, Kathy, can't go along.
                            >
                            > McLame = quasi-fascist with male sex organs
                            > Palin = quasi-fascist with female sex organs
                            >
                            > The "f-word" I'm concerned about is not "female" but "fascist."
                            >
                            > I don't like Christian fascism anymore than Islamic fascism or any
                            > other kind of fascism. Her speech last night was pure red meat to
                            the
                            > small thinking, small town, smugly pious rightwing Christian
                            > fundamentalist base of the GOP. The thought of her finger on or
                            > anywhere near the nuclear trigger is terrifying. And this is just
                            > what she's showing; what's underneath the surface is far worse.
                            >
                            > So she's a hockey mom. Big deal. And Clarence Thomas is black. So
                            > what? Let's look at content, not surface characteristics. The point
                            > is not what she is but what she thinks and does. Fishing for
                            women's
                            > votes with an anti-feminist, anti-choice, anti-gay woman is a joke.
                            >
                            > -- Jeff
                            > --- In CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy
                            is
                            > > clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and
                            as
                            > an
                            > > American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                            > > choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                            > > qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of
                            > those
                            > > "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                            > Perhaps,
                            > > in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                            > > expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                            > > experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called
                            > for,
                            > > instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                            > > unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not
                            be
                            > > quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would
                            > never
                            > > have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                            > > On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >  
                            > > >
                            > > > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                            > > >  
                            > > >
                            > > > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                            > > >
                            > > > Robert J. Elisberg
                            > > >
                            > > > Huffingtonpost. com
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see
                            > you
                            > > > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that
                            > it is
                            > > > drenched.
                            > > >
                            > > > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                            > candidate
                            > > > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be
                            fair,
                            > > > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William
                            > O.
                            > > > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                            > > >
                            > > > But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator.
                            > Worse
                            > > > even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress
                            for
                            > > > three-terms. And Far worse than William Miller, a choice so
                            > obscure
                            > > > when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did
                            an
                            > > > American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that
                            > was ad
                            > > > was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman
                            > for 12
                            > > > years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials
                            > against
                            > > > Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
                            > > >
                            > > > There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was
                            > trying to
                            > > > figure out who I hoped got the nomination. Someone so weak he'd
                            > be
                            > > > easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who
                            > at
                            > > > least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the
                            latter
                            > > > because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't
                            > afford
                            > > > risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And
                            so
                            > I
                            > > > felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser
                            of
                            > all
                            > > > evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the
                            > window.
                            > > > McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
                            > > >
                            > > > I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for
                            > John
                            > > > McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking
                            that
                            > > > settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
                            > > >
                            > > > No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who
                            > wouldn't
                            > > > have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also
                            > probably
                            > > > lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the
                            > ticket -
                            > > > let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not
                            > to
                            > > > mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic
                            > women to
                            > > > be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic
                            > beliefs.
                            > > > And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the
                            > GOP
                            > > > ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for
                            the
                            > next
                            > > > four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to
                            > > > right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get
                            > some to
                            > > > vote - but that position and others related to it are
                            > specifically
                            > > > what loses even more women voters. And men. And it will
                            probably
                            > lose
                            > > > some Republicans who are cringing and now unable to get
                            > themselves to
                            > > > check "McCain/Palin" in the voting booth. Ultimately, the
                            > nomination
                            > > > will lose far, far more votes than it gains. 
                            > > >
                            > > > But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                            > > >  
                            > > >
                            > > > It's always said that the most important decision a
                            presidential
                            > > > candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows
                            their
                            > > > thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has
                            > just
                            > > > told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most
                            qualified
                            > > > person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all
                            the
                            > > > available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to
                            > select
                            > > > a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton
                            > supporters,
                            > > > look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd
                            > Whitman,
                            > > > Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even -
                            for
                            > > > goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of
                            these
                            > have
                            > > > marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to
                            > run, but
                            > > > it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the
                            > American
                            > > > public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women
                            to
                            > be
                            > > > vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who
                            could
                            > have
                            > > > been chosen.
                            > > >
                            > > > It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is
                            > gross
                            > > > political misconduct.
                            > > >
                            > > > Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18
                            > months.
                            > > > Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't
                            include
                            > > > moose.) This would only make it the 17th most
                            populous city  in
                            > the
                            > > > United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
                            > > >
                            > > > Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population
                            9,000.
                            > I
                            > > > know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this
                            is
                            > > > taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from
                            > > > Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It so small it doesn't
                            > > > even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm
                            sure
                            > that
                            > > > Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully in the job there - but I don't
                            > expect
                            > > > that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from
                            U.S.
                            > > > President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on
                            > the
                            > > > Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be
                            fair,
                            > it's
                            > > > the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying
                            > > > political signage.)
                            > > >
                            > > > Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the
                            > mayor
                            > > > of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:1. Preside at
                            > council
                            > > > meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters
                            > before
                            > > > the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote
                            in
                            > the
                            > > > case of a tie;
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >> 2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;Swell.
                            > > >
                            > > > If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really
                            > small),
                            > > > look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or
                            village
                            > > > manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
                            > > >
                            > > > But that's not the reason either that the decision to make
                            Sarah
                            > Palin
                            > > > the VP nominee is so terrible.
                            > > >
                            > > > It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is.
                            That's
                            > a
                            > > > national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level,
                            > her
                            > > > nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the
                            > campaign -
                            > > > calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been
                            trying
                            > to
                            > > > run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush,
                            > which
                            > > > John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only
                            > been
                            > > > running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14
                            > years in
                            > > > federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely
                            running
                            > for
                            > > > VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a
                            > history of
                            > > > some medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step
                            > in as
                            > > > president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that
                            she
                            > makes
                            > > > Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar
                            > > > combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under
                            > > > themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The
                            > national
                            > > > debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing.
                            All
                            > they
                            > > > have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate
                            > is
                            > > > Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against
                            > most
                            > > > things Democrats stand for."
                            > > >
                            > > > But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                            > > >
                            > > > Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for
                            > him
                            > > > who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get
                            > > > Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is
                            it.
                            > She
                            > > > likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary
                            Clinton's
                            > best
                            > > > interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading
                            woman
                            > > > candidate for president in the future, so having another woman
                            as
                            > the
                            > > > potential Vice President (and potential President) is a
                            > significant
                            > > > challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box
                            and
                            > > > brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the
                            > > > Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
                            > > >
                            > > > Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
                            > > >
                            > > > What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible
                            is
                            > give
                            > > > lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts
                            > America
                            > > > First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of
                            > his
                            > > > entire career, that of everything he does is for reasons of
                            > honor.
                            > > > There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice
                            > > > presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor
                            > as "blatantly
                            > > > pandering."
                            > > >
                            > > > But that's not the reason either that this decision is so
                            > terrible.
                            > > >
                            > > > But before we get to that, let's look at the actual
                            announcement
                            > to
                            > > > make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican
                            nominee
                            > for
                            > > > president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
                            > > >
                            > > > First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down
                            > reading
                            > > > his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama
                            > giving
                            > > > his a majestic speech the night before that even conservative
                            > analysts
                            > > > were admiring in awe.
                            > > >
                            > > > Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there
                            > were
                            > > > empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to
                            a
                            > > > stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night
                            > before.
                            > > >
                            > > > Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about
                            > Sarah
                            > > > Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be President of the
                            United
                            > > > States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking
                            > about
                            > > > her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
                            > > >
                            > > > Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications,
                            pretty
                            > much
                            > > > all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes.
                            And
                            > then,
                            > > > she basically stopped there.
                            > > >
                            > > > She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by
                            > talking
                            > > > about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to
                            > Republicans
                            > > > this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not
                            so
                            > > > much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the
                            > > > endangered species act (which the government did), so maybe her
                            > > > environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks..
                            > > >
                            > > > And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John
                            > > > McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the
                            one
                            > > > question oneveryone's  mind was not -- "can you say John McCain
                            is
                            > a
                            > > > swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on
                            > everyone's
                            > > > mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why
                            you
                            > > > should be a heart-beat from the presidency."
                            > > >
                            > > > In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the
                            > ticket was
                            > > > praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be
                            > enough
                            > > > to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the
                            > ticket.
                            > > > Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely
                            because
                            > she
                            > > > was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because
                            she
                            > was
                            > > > a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important
                            > Democratic
                            > > > values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to
                            praise
                            > > > Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're
                            > > > praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
                            > > >
                            > > > It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be
                            head
                            > of
                            > > > the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe
                            Biden
                            > when
                            > > > Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining
                            in
                            > blunt
                            > > > detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must
                            > have
                            > > > been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in
                            > > > preparation for his debate with Sarah Palin and thought, "This
                            > isn't
                            > > > fair."
                            > > >
                            > > > And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
                            > > >
                            > > > The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or
                            > about
                            > > > Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the
                            > balloons
                            > > > and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are
                            still
                            > over
                            > > > two months to go for the campaign.
                            > > >
                            > > > The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
                            > > >
                            > > > Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it
                            > reinforces
                            > > > it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes
                            a
                            > word
                            > > > that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about
                            > > > himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly
                            > faulty
                            > > > judgment on the critical issues facing America.
                            > > >
                            > > > What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on
                            John
                            > > > McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday,
                            > when he
                            > > > turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the
                            crowd
                            > sang
                            > > > "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John
                            > McCain's
                            > > > clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he
                            > was
                            > > > thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing
                            the "How
                            > old
                            > > > are you now?" part." And how good a message was it that he's
                            > saying he
                            > > > supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
                            > > >
                            > > > Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at
                            > > > blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's
                            > only
                            > > > the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already
                            > done
                            > > > that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John
                            McCain
                            > well
                            > > > and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed.
                            > Didn't
                            > > > even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal
                            > that
                            > > > will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
                            > > >
                            > > > The election is about the presidential candidates. And the
                            > selection
                            > > > of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by
                            > the
                            > > > Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for
                            himself
                            > to
                            > > > personally become negative for two months - which is disaster
                            in
                            > > > presidential politics.
                            > > >
                            > > > Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's
                            > > > inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on
                            the
                            > > > foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue Republicans
                            > were
                            > > > even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be
                            > > > willing to vote for a senator with 26-years in the Senate. Her
                            > > > bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign.
                            Her
                            > > > inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing
                            as
                            > > > supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's
                            > first
                            > > > decision.
                            > > >
                            > > > And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his
                            > > > indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of
                            John
                            > > > McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all
                            that.
                            > > >
                            > > > Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a
                            > lot of
                            > > > fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual
                            campaign
                            > has
                            > > > now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >> This is a red/blue contest and considering that Gore won and
                            > even
                            > > >> Kerry
                            > > >> lost by only 120,000 votes in Ohio...
                            > > >> _it may all be decided by the ("progressive" ) voter
                            > registration and
                            > > >> turnout that Jeff mentions/recommends !
                            > > >>
                            > > >> _Hillary was going to win this thing (suburban women being
                            > > >> decisive!),
                            > > >> until 'upstart' Obama derailed her!
                            > > >> But now, all the 18 million for Clinton have to vote for
                            Barack
                            > > >> Obama...and a good chunk of the Reagan Dems have to come
                            back...
                            > > >>
                            > > >> The bedrock of Republicans will stay with McCain, even if the
                            > > >> 'rightest'
                            > > >> of them don't like him at all...
                            > > >> Palin pulls them in and back...she is solid core conservative
                            > and
                            > > >> even
                            > > >> exciting...so far...
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Palin has a son in Iraq; so does Biden.
                            > > >> McCain is a war hero and ambivalent really on Iraq; Obama is
                            an
                            > Ivy
                            > > >> League guy who is a war critic.
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Obama has those gorgeous little girls; and Michelle...Palin
                            has
                            > 5
                            > > >> kids,
                            > > >> and a Down's Syndrome boy born in April; she is 44
                            > > >> and anti-abortion. ..and her husband is an all-American kinda
                            > guy...
                            > > >>
                            > > >> The race is now 50-50...
                            > > >> For the first time since 1960, we may see really good debates
                            > > >> here...McCain/ Obama, Biden/Palin. ..especially the latter!
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Best, Neal
                            > > >>
                            > >
                            >

                          • thulanidavis
                            She s not a soccer mom-- she s a HOCKEY mom, a much more all-white buzzword for rich whites or poor whites. As pointed out in Dan s post, her company was
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              She's not a soccer mom-- she's a HOCKEY mom, a much more all-white buzzword for rich
                              whites or poor whites. As pointed out in Dan's post, her company was called red neck; her
                              future son-in-law advertises himself on facebook as a f---kin redneck. It's very scary that
                              people are responding to her purely on the grounds that she's a mom and inhaling the
                              coolaid at the same time. Barbara Bush is a mom. Marie Antoinette was a mom. And this
                              one is like Evita as a mom. It's a shame that women feel so unacknowledged in their
                              struggles that her claim to be a hockey mom--which was a decade ago by the way-- and
                              not while she's been a governor is winning people over. I heard a woman last night say
                              she's great because she's a hockey mom because it shows she can really manage her time
                              because hockey momming is so time consuming. But she's not being a hockey mom, she's
                              organizing you.



                              --- In CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > yes, that is the dialogue I was hoping for...I do not believe for a
                              > minute that she is "inexperienced"...and this is the direction we need
                              > to look, not at her soccer momming and her small town girl appeal....we
                              > go in the wrong direction if we follow the mainstream deprecators and
                              > buy the labels she wears. The soccer mom appeal WILL win votes and
                              > that is what is so dangerous. Thank you.
                              > On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Dan Leighton wrote:
                              >
                              > > The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her being a
                              > > woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican party Rush Limbaugh
                              > > proudly calls her, a "babe."
                              > >
                              > > This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous choice by McCain, and
                              > > given how she will activate the Christian Right base, and be
                              > > championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil propaganda apparatus, from
                              > > FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly likely that we will have
                              > > President Palin within the next 4 years (given McCain's health and
                              > > age). 
                              > > With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard for him to get
                              > > elected.
                              > >
                              > > She has deep ties to the fanatic Christian Right, the Oil industry,
                              > > and has acted in a Rovian, dictatorial manner in her official
                              > > capacity.  She also wants to outlaw abortion, even in cases of rape
                              > > and incest, or when the mother's life is in danger.
                              > >
                              > > Some info sources:
                              > > First, on her fundamentalist Christian extremism, see Huffington Post:
                              > > "Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview"
                              > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-
                              > > sh_n_123205.html
                              > > Please read the whole story.
                              > > Some excerpts-
                              > >
                              > > Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war
                              > > in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out
                              > > the will of the Lord.
                              > >
                              > > "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is
                              > > right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders,
                              > > are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she
                              > > exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're
                              > > praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."
                              > >
                              > > Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in Palin's foreign
                              > > policy. It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to
                              > > discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for
                              > > another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she
                              > > wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in
                              > > unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for
                              > > that," she said.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Her Wasilia Assembly of God Pastor Ed Kainins makes Jeremiah Wright
                              > > seem mild-mannered and moderate.
                              > >
                              > > Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be
                              > > banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John
                              > > Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11
                              > > terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for
                              > > your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war
                              > > mode." ...
                              > > Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over
                              > > the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina. "I hate
                              > > criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like
                              > > criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to
                              > > get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get
                              > > you."
                              > >
                              > > Much of his support for the current administration has come in the
                              > > realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks
                              > > and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian
                              > > faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be
                              > > willing to sacrifice their lives.
                              > >
                              > > He preaches repeatedly about the "end times" or "last days," an
                              > > apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian
                              > > leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I
                              > > believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and
                              > > hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek
                              > > refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them."
                              > > He also claims to have received direct "words of knowledge" from God,
                              > > providing him information about past events in other people's lives.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > As to Palin's actual record, see the following stories from Randi
                              > > Rhodes (despite her ranting style, one of our few remaining
                              > > investigative journalists, along with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now,
                              > > arrested this week at the RNC).
                              > > Check out the links.
                              > > Especially see the link about her vicious use of her powers, & efforts
                              > > to ban books from the local library.
                              > > From: http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/
                              > >
                              > > Do you think she'll include the title her little town won?  "METH
                              > > CAPITAL OF ALASKA" That's right, in 2003 the Mat-Su area (Wasilla
                              > > Alaska) authorities uncovered 9 Meth labs. By 2004 the number of meth
                              > > labs in Wasilla jumped to 42!
                              > > http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/030805/sta_20050308002.shtml
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Meth Lab Cleanup in Wasilla IS BIG BUSINESS
                              > > http://homemethtestkit.com/index.php?q=99629
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Meanwhile the Wasilla police were conducting raids with automatic
                              > > weapons on POKER GAMES?
                              > > McGregor knew many of the people arrested in the Wasilla raid two
                              > > weeks ago. He said he's been told that there were as many as 20 police
                              > > officers - armed with automatic weapons - involved in the bust. He
                              > > said he can't understand why police are using valuable resources to
                              > > arrest otherwise law-abiding citizens for gambling with their own
                              > > money. Aren't we the meth capital of Alaska?" he asks. "Why are we
                              > > busting poker games? No one is going to Gestapo-style raid your house
                              > > on Super Bowl Sunday" '
                              > > http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2007/04/29/news/news6.txt
                              > > And Sarah was BANNING BOOKS in the Wasilla library.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Mayor/Dictator
                              > > Sarah Palin brought Rovian tactics to a small town Mayor's race. Once
                              > > in office, she governed with an iron...far right, Christian
                              > > conservative....fist. Right down to the books she wanted banned from
                              > > the Wasilla library
                              > > http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html?
                              > > imw=Y
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > OR THAT SHE REFUSES TO PAY HER TAXES??
                              > > Palin failed to declare a business she owned.  The business was
                              > > dissolved by the state for non payment of fees owed.  She also started
                              > > a failed Marketing Company named Rouge Cou.  Translated from THE
                              > > FRENCH it means "Red neck"
                              > > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing
                              > > _car_wash.html
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > The letter advising her that she failed to pay States fees owed on her
                              > > business (a car wash) was written on her own letterhead?
                              > > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/warningletter
                              > > 20070211.pdf
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Even John McCain criticized Sarah Palin's addiction to PORK
                              > > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-earmarks3-2008
                              > > sep03,0,284198.story
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Frozen Pork Barrel: $27 Million in Fed Funds For a Town Of 5,000
                              > > Despite their oil wealth, Alaskan pols are experts at dipping into
                              > > federal funding. Ted Stevens mastered it. His protégé' Sarah Palin was
                              > > getting good too.
                              > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/
                              > > AR2008090103148.html?hpid=topnews
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > 3 Degrees of Separation: Sarah Palin-Steven Silver-Jack Abramoff
                              > > In addition to being Ted Stevens' chief of staff, Mayor Palin's
                              > > lobbyist Steven Silver was an Abramoff confidant
                              > > http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palins_lobbyist
                              > > has_abramoff_t.php
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Alaska #3 on The Federal Spending List.......
                              > > For every buck they send in taxes, the get almost two back.
                              > > http://www..taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...> wrote:
                              > > From: Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
                              > >> all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
                              > >> clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an
                              > >> American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                              > >> choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                              > >> qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of those
                              > >> "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                              > >> Perhaps,
                              > >>
                              > >> in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                              > >> expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                              > >> experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called for,
                              > >> instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                              > >> unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
                              > >> quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would never
                              > >> have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                              > >> On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >> >  
                              > >> >
                              > >> > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                              > >> >  
                              > >> >
                              > >> > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                              > >> >
                              > >> > Robert J. Elisberg
                              > >> >
                              > >> > Huffingtonpost.com
                              > >> >
                              > >> >
                              > >> > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you
                              > >> > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it
                              > >> is
                              > >>
                              > >> > drenched.
                              > >> >
                              > >> > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                              > >> candidate
                              > >> > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
                              > >> > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O.
                              > >> > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                              > >> >
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Paul Bloom
                              She s a fundamentalist Christian who believes in armageddon. It s terrifying to contemplate her finger on the nuclear trigger. ~ Bloom
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                She's a fundamentalist Christian who believes in armageddon. It's terrifying to contemplate her finger on the nuclear trigger.
                                ~ Bloom


                                --- On Thu, 9/4/08, thulanidavis <temne2@...> wrote:

                                > From: thulanidavis <temne2@...>
                                > Subject: [CU68-08Event] Re: The Real problems with Sarah Palin
                                > To: CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 11:59 AM
                                > She's not a soccer mom-- she's a HOCKEY mom, a much
                                > more all-white buzzword for rich
                                > whites or poor whites. As pointed out in Dan's post,
                                > her company was called red neck; her
                                > future son-in-law advertises himself on facebook as a
                                > f---kin redneck. It's very scary that
                                > people are responding to her purely on the grounds that
                                > she's a mom and inhaling the
                                > coolaid at the same time. Barbara Bush is a mom. Marie
                                > Antoinette was a mom. And this
                                > one is like Evita as a mom. It's a shame that women
                                > feel so unacknowledged in their
                                > struggles that her claim to be a hockey mom--which was a
                                > decade ago by the way-- and
                                > not while she's been a governor is winning people over.
                                > I heard a woman last night say
                                > she's great because she's a hockey mom because it
                                > shows she can really manage her time
                                > because hockey momming is so time consuming. But she's
                                > not being a hockey mom, she's
                                > organizing you.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com, Katherine Knowles
                                > <klk1946@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > yes, that is the dialogue I was hoping for...I do not
                                > believe for a
                                > > minute that she is "inexperienced"...and
                                > this is the direction we need
                                > > to look, not at her soccer momming and her small town
                                > girl appeal....we
                                > > go in the wrong direction if we follow the mainstream
                                > deprecators and
                                > > buy the labels she wears. The soccer mom appeal WILL
                                > win votes and
                                > > that is what is so dangerous. Thank you.
                                > > On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Dan Leighton wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to
                                > do with her being a
                                > > > woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican
                                > party Rush Limbaugh
                                > > > proudly calls her, a "babe."
                                > > >
                                > > > This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous
                                > choice by McCain, and
                                > > > given how she will activate the Christian Right
                                > base, and be
                                > > > championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil
                                > propaganda apparatus, from
                                > > > FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly
                                > likely that we will have
                                > > > President Palin within the next 4 years (given
                                > McCain's health and
                                > > > age). 
                                > > > With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard
                                > for him to get
                                > > > elected.
                                > > >
                                > > > She has deep ties to the fanatic Christian Right,
                                > the Oil industry,
                                > > > and has acted in a Rovian, dictatorial manner in
                                > her official
                                > > > capacity.  She also wants to outlaw abortion,
                                > even in cases of rape
                                > > > and incest, or when the mother's life is in
                                > danger.
                                > > >
                                > > > Some info sources:
                                > > > First, on her fundamentalist Christian extremism,
                                > see Huffington Post:
                                > > > "Palin's Church May Have Shaped
                                > Controversial Worldview"
                                > > >
                                > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-
                                >
                                > > > sh_n_123205.html
                                > > > Please read the whole story.
                                > > > Some excerpts-
                                > > >
                                > > > Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin
                                > painted the current war
                                > > > in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United
                                > States could act out
                                > > > the will of the Lord.
                                > > >
                                > > > "Pray for our military men and women who are
                                > striving to do what is
                                > > > right. Also, for this country, that our leaders,
                                > our national leaders,
                                > > > are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is
                                > from God," she
                                > > > exhorted the congregants. "That's what
                                > we have to make sure that we're
                                > > > praying for, that there is a plan and that that
                                > plan is God's plan."
                                > > >
                                > > > Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in
                                > Palin's foreign
                                > > > policy. It was part of her energy proposals as
                                > well. Just prior to
                                > > > discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the
                                > audience to pray for
                                > > > another matter -- a $30 billion national gas
                                > pipeline project that she
                                > > > wanted built in the state. "I think
                                > God's will has to be done in
                                > > > unifying people and companies to get that gas
                                > line built, so pray for
                                > > > that," she said.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Her Wasilia Assembly of God Pastor Ed Kainins
                                > makes Jeremiah Wright
                                > > > seem mild-mannered and moderate.
                                > > >
                                > > > Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of
                                > President Bush will be
                                > > > banished to hell; questioned whether people who
                                > voted for Sen. John
                                > > > Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven;
                                > charged that the 9/11
                                > > > terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a
                                > war "contending for
                                > > > your faith;" and said that Jesus
                                > "operated from that position of war
                                > > > mode." ...
                                > > > Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush
                                > was receiving over
                                > > > the federal government's handling of
                                > Hurricane Katrina. "I hate
                                > > > criticisms towards the President," he said,
                                > "because it's like
                                > > > criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost
                                > like, it's not going to
                                > > > get you anywhere, you know, except for hell.
                                > That's what it'll get
                                > > > you."
                                > > >
                                > > > Much of his support for the current
                                > administration has come in the
                                > > > realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached
                                > that the 9/11 attacks
                                > > > and the invasion of Iraq were part of a
                                > "world war" over the Christian
                                > > > faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon
                                > believers to be
                                > > > willing to sacrifice their lives.
                                > > >
                                > > > He preaches repeatedly about the "end
                                > times" or "last days," an
                                > > > apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal
                                > group of Christian
                                > > > leaders. During his appearance with Palin in
                                > June, he declared, "I
                                > > > believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the
                                > last days, and
                                > > > hundreds of thousands of people are going to come
                                > to the state to seek
                                > > > refuge and the church has to be ready to minister
                                > to them."
                                > > > He also claims to have received direct
                                > "words of knowledge" from God,
                                > > > providing him information about past events in
                                > other people's lives.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > As to Palin's actual record, see the
                                > following stories from Randi
                                > > > Rhodes (despite her ranting style, one of our few
                                > remaining
                                > > > investigative journalists, along with Amy Goodman
                                > of Democracy Now,
                                > > > arrested this week at the RNC).
                                > > > Check out the links.
                                > > > Especially see the link about her vicious use of
                                > her powers, & efforts
                                > > > to ban books from the local library.
                                > > > From: http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/
                                > > >
                                > > > Do you think she'll include the title her
                                > little town won?  "METH
                                > > > CAPITAL OF ALASKA" That's right, in 2003
                                > the Mat-Su area (Wasilla
                                > > > Alaska) authorities uncovered 9 Meth labs. By
                                > 2004 the number of meth
                                > > > labs in Wasilla jumped to 42!
                                > > >
                                > http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/030805/sta_20050308002.shtml
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Meth Lab Cleanup in Wasilla IS BIG BUSINESS
                                > > > http://homemethtestkit.com/index.php?q=99629
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Meanwhile the Wasilla police were conducting
                                > raids with automatic
                                > > > weapons on POKER GAMES?
                                > > > McGregor knew many of the people arrested in the
                                > Wasilla raid two
                                > > > weeks ago. He said he's been told that there
                                > were as many as 20 police
                                > > > officers - armed with automatic weapons -
                                > involved in the bust. He
                                > > > said he can't understand why police are using
                                > valuable resources to
                                > > > arrest otherwise law-abiding citizens for
                                > gambling with their own
                                > > > money. Aren't we the meth capital of
                                > Alaska?" he asks. "Why are we
                                > > > busting poker games? No one is going to
                                > Gestapo-style raid your house
                                > > > on Super Bowl Sunday" '
                                > > >
                                > http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2007/04/29/news/news6.txt
                                > > > And Sarah was BANNING BOOKS in the Wasilla
                                > library.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Mayor/Dictator
                                > > > Sarah Palin brought Rovian tactics to a small
                                > town Mayor's race. Once
                                > > > in office, she governed with an iron...far right,
                                > Christian
                                > > > conservative....fist. Right down to the books she
                                > wanted banned from
                                > > > the Wasilla library
                                > > >
                                > http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html?
                                > > > imw=Y
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > OR THAT SHE REFUSES TO PAY HER TAXES??
                                > > > Palin failed to declare a business she owned. 
                                > The business was
                                > > > dissolved by the state for non payment of fees
                                > owed.  She also started
                                > > > a failed Marketing Company named Rouge Cou. 
                                > Translated from THE
                                > > > FRENCH it means "Red neck"
                                > > >
                                > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing
                                > > > _car_wash.html
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The letter advising her that she failed to pay
                                > States fees owed on her
                                > > > business (a car wash) was written on her own
                                > letterhead?
                                > > >
                                > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/warningletter
                                > > > 20070211.pdf
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Even John McCain criticized Sarah Palin's
                                > addiction to PORK
                                > > >
                                > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-earmarks3-2008
                                > > > sep03,0,284198.story
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Frozen Pork Barrel: $27 Million in Fed Funds For
                                > a Town Of 5,000
                                > > > Despite their oil wealth, Alaskan pols are
                                > experts at dipping into
                                > > > federal funding. Ted Stevens mastered it. His
                                > protégé' Sarah Palin was
                                > > > getting good too.
                                > > >
                                > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/
                                > > > AR2008090103148.html?hpid=topnews
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > 3 Degrees of Separation: Sarah Palin-Steven
                                > Silver-Jack Abramoff
                                > > > In addition to being Ted Stevens' chief of
                                > staff, Mayor Palin's
                                > > > lobbyist Steven Silver was an Abramoff confidant
                                > > >
                                > http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palins_lobbyist
                                > > > has_abramoff_t.php
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Alaska #3 on The Federal Spending List.......
                                > > > For every buck they send in taxes, the get almost
                                > two back.
                                > > >
                                > http://www..taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Katherine Knowles
                                > <klk1946@...> wrote:
                                > > > From: Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
                                > > >> all these rational arguments aside, and given
                                > that the strategy is
                                > > >> clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman,
                                > as a politician and as an
                                > > >> American given the tokenism and apalling
                                > opportunism behind this
                                > > >> choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is
                                > probably one of her best
                                > > >> qualifications, just try it for one season
                                > and see how many of those
                                > > >> "experienced" politicos you
                                > mentioned could handle that job!
                                > > >> Perhaps,
                                > > >>
                                > > >> in their own perverted and twisted way, the
                                > Republicans have just
                                > > >> expressed some kind of leap of faith and
                                > decided that political
                                > > >> experience may not, at this stage of the game
                                > be what is called for,
                                > > >> instead, Call your mother! Please, let's
                                > give this courageous if
                                > > >> unfortunately misaligned woman her just
                                > acknowledgement and not be
                                > > >> quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot
                                > of people I would never
                                > > >> have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                                > > >> On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@...
                                > wrote:
                                > > >>
                                > > >> >  
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in
                                > U.S. History
                                > > >> >  
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM
                                > (EST)
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > Robert J. Elisberg
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > Huffingtonpost.com
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > There was a TV ad for deodorant that
                                > said, "Never let them see you
                                > > >> > sweat." The John McCain campaign
                                > has just showed the world that it
                                > > >> is
                                > > >>
                                > > >> > drenched.
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for
                                > a vice presidential
                                > > >> candidate
                                > > >> > is perhaps the worst such choice in
                                > American History. To be fair,
                                > > >> > maybe there are worse choices, but I
                                > don't know how bad William O.
                                > > >> > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass
                                > against Zachary Taylor.
                                > > >> >
                                > > >>
                                > > >>
                                > > >>
                                > > >>
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                              • Katherine Knowles
                                even more appalling...thanks Thulani.
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  even more appalling...thanks Thulani.
                                  On Sep 4, 2008, at 11:59 AM, thulanidavis wrote:

                                  > She's not a soccer mom-- she's a HOCKEY mom, a much more all-white
                                  > buzzword for rich
                                  > whites or poor whites. As pointed out in Dan's post, her company was
                                  > called red neck; her
                                  > future son-in-law advertises himself on facebook as a f---kin
                                  > redneck. It's very scary that
                                  > people are responding to her purely on the grounds that she's a mom
                                  > and inhaling the
                                  > coolaid at the same time. Barbara Bush is a mom. Marie Antoinette was
                                  > a mom. And this
                                  > one is like Evita as a mom. It's a shame that women feel so
                                  > unacknowledged in their
                                  > struggles that her claim to be a hockey mom--which was a decade ago
                                  > by the way-- and
                                  > not while she's been a governor is winning people over. I heard a
                                  > woman last night say
                                  > she's great because she's a hockey mom because it shows she can
                                  > really manage her time
                                  > because hockey momming is so time consuming. But she's not being a
                                  > hockey mom, she's
                                  > organizing you.
                                  >
                                  > --- In CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > yes, that is the dialogue I was hoping for...I do not believe for a
                                  > > minute that she is "inexperienced"...and this is the direction we
                                  > need
                                  > > to look, not at her soccer momming and her small town girl
                                  > appeal....we
                                  > > go in the wrong direction if we follow the mainstream deprecators
                                  > and
                                  > > buy the labels she wears. The soccer mom appeal WILL win votes and
                                  > > that is what is so dangerous. Thank you.
                                  > > On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Dan Leighton wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her
                                  > being a
                                  > > > woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican party Rush
                                  > Limbaugh
                                  > > > proudly calls her, a "babe."
                                  > > >
                                  > > > This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous choice by
                                  > McCain, and
                                  > > > given how she will activate the Christian Right base, and be
                                  > > > championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil propaganda apparatus,
                                  > from
                                  > > > FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly likely that we will
                                  > have
                                  > > > President Palin within the next 4 years (given McCain's health and
                                  > > > age). 
                                  > > > With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard for him to get
                                  > > > elected.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > She has deep ties to the fanatic Christian Right, the Oil
                                  > industry,
                                  > > > and has acted in a Rovian, dictatorial manner in her official
                                  > > > capacity.  She also wants to outlaw abortion, even in cases of
                                  > rape
                                  > > > and incest, or when the mother's life is in danger.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Some info sources:
                                  > > > First, on her fundamentalist Christian extremism, see Huffington
                                  > Post:
                                  > > > "Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview"
                                  > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-
                                  > > > sh_n_123205.html
                                  > > > Please read the whole story.
                                  > > > Some excerpts-
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current
                                  > war
                                  > > > in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could
                                  > act out
                                  > > > the will of the Lord.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what
                                  > is
                                  > > > right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national
                                  > leaders,
                                  > > > are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she
                                  > > > exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that
                                  > we're
                                  > > > praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's
                                  > plan."
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in Palin's foreign
                                  > > > policy. It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to
                                  > > > discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for
                                  > > > another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project
                                  > that she
                                  > > > wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in
                                  > > > unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray
                                  > for
                                  > > > that," she said.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Her Wasilia Assembly of God Pastor Ed Kainins makes Jeremiah
                                  > Wright
                                  > > > seem mild-mannered and moderate.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be
                                  > > > banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen.
                                  > John
                                  > > > Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11
                                  > > > terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending
                                  > for
                                  > > > your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of
                                  > war
                                  > > > mode." ...
                                  > > > Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving
                                  > over
                                  > > > the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina. "I hate
                                  > > > criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like
                                  > > > criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going
                                  > to
                                  > > > get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get
                                  > > > you."
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Much of his support for the current administration has come in the
                                  > > > realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11
                                  > attacks
                                  > > > and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the
                                  > Christian
                                  > > > faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be
                                  > > > willing to sacrifice their lives.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > He preaches repeatedly about the "end times" or "last days," an
                                  > > > apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian
                                  > > > leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I
                                  > > > believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and
                                  > > > hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to
                                  > seek
                                  > > > refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them."
                                  > > > He also claims to have received direct "words of knowledge" from
                                  > God,
                                  > > > providing him information about past events in other people's
                                  > lives.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > As to Palin's actual record, see the following stories from Randi
                                  > > > Rhodes (despite her ranting style, one of our few remaining
                                  > > > investigative journalists, along with Amy Goodman of Democracy
                                  > Now,
                                  > > > arrested this week at the RNC).
                                  > > > Check out the links.
                                  > > > Especially see the link about her vicious use of her powers, &
                                  > efforts
                                  > > > to ban books from the local library.
                                  > > > From: http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Do you think she'll include the title her little town won?  "METH
                                  > > > CAPITAL OF ALASKA" That's right, in 2003 the Mat-Su area (Wasilla
                                  > > > Alaska) authorities uncovered 9 Meth labs. By 2004 the number of
                                  > meth
                                  > > > labs in Wasilla jumped to 42!
                                  > > > http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/030805/sta_20050308002.shtml
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Meth Lab Cleanup in Wasilla IS BIG BUSINESS
                                  > > > http://homemethtestkit.com/index.php?q=99629
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Meanwhile the Wasilla police were conducting raids with automatic
                                  > > > weapons on POKER GAMES?
                                  > > > McGregor knew many of the people arrested in the Wasilla raid two
                                  > > > weeks ago. He said he's been told that there were as many as 20
                                  > police
                                  > > > officers - armed with automatic weapons - involved in the bust. He
                                  > > > said he can't understand why police are using valuable resources
                                  > to
                                  > > > arrest otherwise law-abiding citizens for gambling with their own
                                  > > > money. Aren't we the meth capital of Alaska?" he asks. "Why are we
                                  > > > busting poker games? No one is going to Gestapo-style raid your
                                  > house
                                  > > > on Super Bowl Sunday" '
                                  > > > http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2007/04/29/news/news6.txt
                                  > > > And Sarah was BANNING BOOKS in the Wasilla library.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Mayor/Dictator
                                  > > > Sarah Palin brought Rovian tactics to a small town Mayor's race.
                                  > Once
                                  > > > in office, she governed with an iron...far right, Christian
                                  > > > conservative....fist. Right down to the books she wanted banned
                                  > from
                                  > > > the Wasilla library
                                  > > > http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html?
                                  > > > imw=Y
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > OR THAT SHE REFUSES TO PAY HER TAXES??
                                  > > > Palin failed to declare a business she owned.  The business was
                                  > > > dissolved by the state for non payment of fees owed.  She also
                                  > started
                                  > > > a failed Marketing Company named Rouge Cou.  Translated from THE
                                  > > > FRENCH it means "Red neck"
                                  > > >
                                  > http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing
                                  > > > _car_wash.html
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The letter advising her that she failed to pay States fees owed
                                  > on her
                                  > > > business (a car wash) was written on her own letterhead?
                                  > > > http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/warningletter
                                  > > > 20070211.pdf
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Even John McCain criticized Sarah Palin's addiction to PORK
                                  > > >
                                  > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-earmarks3-2008
                                  > > > sep03,0,284198.story
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Frozen Pork Barrel: $27 Million in Fed Funds For a Town Of 5,000
                                  > > > Despite their oil wealth, Alaskan pols are experts at dipping into
                                  > > > federal funding. Ted Stevens mastered it. His protégé' Sarah
                                  > Palin was
                                  > > > getting good too.
                                  > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/
                                  > > > AR2008090103148.html?hpid=topnews
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > 3 Degrees of Separation: Sarah Palin-Steven Silver-Jack Abramoff
                                  > > > In addition to being Ted Stevens' chief of staff, Mayor Palin's
                                  > > > lobbyist Steven Silver was an Abramoff confidant
                                  > > > http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palins_lobbyist
                                  > > > has_abramoff_t.php
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Alaska #3 on The Federal Spending List.......
                                  > > > For every buck they send in taxes, the get almost two back.
                                  > > > http://www..taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...> wrote:
                                  > > > From: Katherine Knowles <klk1946@...>
                                  > > >> all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy
                                  > is
                                  > > >> clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and
                                  > as an
                                  > > >> American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                                  > > >> choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                                  > > >> qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of
                                  > those
                                  > > >> "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                                  > > >> Perhaps,
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                                  > > >> expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                                  > > >> experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called
                                  > for,
                                  > > >> instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                                  > > >> unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not
                                  > be
                                  > > >> quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would
                                  > never
                                  > > >> have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                                  > > >> On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@... wrote:
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> >  
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                                  > > >> >  
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > Robert J. Elisberg
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > Huffingtonpost.com
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see
                                  > you
                                  > > >> > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world
                                  > that it
                                  > > >> is
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> > drenched.
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                                  > > >> candidate
                                  > > >> > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be
                                  > fair,
                                  > > >> > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad
                                  > William O.
                                  > > >> > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • a.gronowicz@att.net
                                  She fits in with the Southern tradition as does McCain with his Confederate roots--Tony From the very beginnings of my long Torture chapter:           
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 4, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    She fits in with the Southern tradition as does McCain with his Confederate roots--Tony

                                    From the very beginnings of my long Torture chapter:

                                                                                                     TORTURE

                                               

                                                It is fitting that torture be rationalized in the new millennium by Washington, despite President Bush’s claim to the contrary that “This government does not torture people.” [1] Both father and son presidents owe their middle name to David Walker who supplied the original estate upon which the Bush clan’s fortune and political power is based.  Their treasonous forbear made a fortune supplying the Confederate side in the Civil War after buying his way out of military service.           

                                                Those retrograde social views were reinforced by Hollywood.  Gone With the Wind, the highest-grossing film in cinematic history, has as its protagonist, the Klansman Rhett Butler.

                                                Though Confederates died for the right to expand slavery, and though they lost the Civil War, their racist cultural legacy infects American society, especially through family dynasties like the Bushes.  Other than the systematic genocide conducted against Native Americans, no other people in the United States has undergone more relentless oppression and cultural victimization than African Americans.[2]

                                                A principal instrument of this perpetual terror is the Ku Klux Klan.  It routinely employs torture before killing its victims who number in the thousands since the Civil War. Historically, this terrorist organization has enjoyed widespread overt and covert support from the plutocracy.  In order to gain the rural vote, the lynching of two black couples in 1946 was instigated by Eugene Talmadge, a three-term Democratic governor of Georgia and member of the powerful Talmadge family.  The strategy worked.  He was elected to a fourth term. 

                                                The truth concerning sponsorship of these gruesome murders leaked out over sixty years later. This time lapse confirmed Machiavelli’s guiding precept of a ruler’s need to control “apparent outcomes” if he wishes to be successful.[3]

                                                During the Cold War, the Republican Party increasingly appealed to racists.  In 1980, its putative leader Ronald Reagan journeyed to Klan country.  He made a campaign stop in Neshoba County, Mississippi, the site of the most notorious civil rights Klan torture killings of the 1960s that were engineered by the county sheriff.  The Klan’s newspaper noted approvingly of the Republican platform that it “reads as if it were written by a Klansman,” and endorsed Reagan.  The symbol of modern U.S. conservativism had staked his position on race in the 1980 presidential election.[4]

                                                A generation later, Senate Republican Majority Leader (1996-2001) Mississippian Trent Lott toasted KuKluxKlan political icon Strom Thurmond on his 100th birthday, December 5, 2002: “When Strom Thurmond ran for president [1948], we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of our country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over the years, either.”  Consistent with this political philosophy, is Lott’s position on the use of torture: “Interrogation is not a Sunday-school class. You don’t get information that will save American lives by withholding pancakes.” [5]  He is very much part of the brutal sadism that Klan culture fostered.

                                                Ciy police departments routinely torture citizens. The most recent notorious case involves the admission by the city of Chicago that Jon Burge, its police commissioner for twenty years, led a squad of more than twenty officers in tormenting four African-American men into confessing to first-degree murder. Released from death row, the men received $20 million in restitution for being falsely charged and electrically shocked with cattle prods and wires attached to their testicles, buttocks and arms. Additional barbarisms included being subjected to near-suffocation with plastic bags and undergoing mock execution—an act of terror that was also inflicted upon the Russian writer Dostoevsky by the Czar’s secret police.  Other Chicago police officers routinely engaged in robbery, kidnapping and making false arrests.  So far, ten African-American men have been released from death row for crimes they did not commit.

                                                Their abuse is recognized by the Canadian government.  A training manual for its diplomats cites the United States as a nation “where prisoners risk torture,” along with Israel, Afghanistan, China, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Syria. [6]

                                                Chicago Police Chief Burge’s education in torture was in Vietnam, where his military service earned him a Bronze Star, a Purple Heart, the Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, and two commendations for bravery. While Police Commissioner, he received a letter of praise from the U.S. Justice Department. Though Burge was fired in 1993 when the story first broke, he continued to receive a $30 thousand annual pension. Thousands of Chicago police officers held fundraisers for their beleagured chief.  The reporter who broke the torture story, John Conroy, lost his job in early December 2007 in an alleged cost-cutting move just days before the city publicly announced its $20 million payout.[7] 

                                                Modern torture techniques as practiced by Washington are under CIA control, and stretch from the Korean War “to their present day perfection …. Indeed, the photographs from Iraq illustrate standard interrogation practice inside the global gulag of secret CIA prisons that have operated, on executive authority, since the start of the war on terror.” These grotesque procedures are strikingly similar whether one is perusing the original manual, entitled, “Kubark Counterintelligence Interrogation” (1963), or CIA’s Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual (1983), or General Ricardo Sanchez’s 2003 guide to the physical and psychological torture of Iraqis.  Even the allegedly aberrant practices are CIA-induced.  Major General George R. Fay reported that the U.S. Army “allowed CIA to house `Ghost Detainees’ who were unidentified and unaccounted for in Abu Ghraib.” [8]

                                                Washington’s closest ally, London, employed the same vile techniques against Catholic Irish in Northern Ireland. They were also approved at a “high level.” The instructions were conveyed “orally.”  Nothing was “commited to writing or authorized in any official document.”[9]



                                    [1] Scott Shane, David Johnston & James Risen, “Secret U.S. Endorsement on Severe Interrogations,” New York Times, October 4, 2007; “Bush Defends Interrogations, Saying Methods Aren’t Torture,” October 6, 2007.

                                    [2] “Black History” Lost, Stolen, or Strayed?” (1968). This hour-long CBS documentary, narrated by Bill Cosby, depicts the vicious stereotying routinely conducted by Hollywood to rationalize the African-American plight, as well as by visual inference to provide racist justification for demonizing most of the world’s peoples in order to justify global conquest.

                                    [3] “FBI probed Ga. Governor in ’46 lynching,” New Jersey Star-Ledger, June 17, 2007.

                                    [4] Joseph Crespino, “Did David Brooks Tell the Full Story About Reagan’s Neshoba County Fair Visist?” History News Network, November 12, 2007.  New York Times, July 31, 1980.

                                    [5] Deborah Solomon, “Questions for Trent Lott,” New York Times Magazine, June 20, 2004, 15. As cited in McCoy, A Question of Torture, 153.

                                    [6] “Canada Manual: US Prisoners Face Torture,” Associated Press, January 18, 2008.

                                    [7] Amy Goodman, Democracy Now, December 10, 2007.   St. Petersburg Times, August 29, 2004.  Karen Hawkins, “Sharpton Issues Plan for Chicago Police,” Associated Press, December 10, 2007.  Sasha Abramsky, “Trial by Torture,” Mother Jones Online, March 3, 2000.

                                    [8] McCoy, A Question of Torture, 5, 11, 50-53.  George R. Fay, “AR 15-6 Investigation of the Abu Ghraib Detention Facility and 205th Military Intelligence Brigade (U),” 7-9, 29, 42, 44, 45, 53, 55, 118, http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/26_08_04_fayreport.pdf;accessed August 26, 2004.  As cited in Ibid., 154-157. 

                                    [9] European Court of Human Rights, Ireland v. The United Kingdom, No. 5310/17, January 18, 1978, para. 32, 34, 39, 81, 96-97, http://www.worldlii.org/eucases/ECHR/1978/lhtml; accessed June 6, 2004.  As cited in McCoy, A Question of Torture, 54-55.



                                     
                                    -------------- Original message from Paul Bloom <paulbloom@...>: --------------

                                    She's a fundamentalist Christian who believes in armageddon. It's terrifying to contemplate her finger on the nuclear trigger.
                                    ~ Bloom

                                    --- On Thu, 9/4/08, thulanidavis <temne2@earthlink. net> wrote:

                                    > From: thulanidavis <temne2@earthlink. net>
                                    > Subject: [CU68-08Event] Re: The Real problems with Sarah Palin
                                    > To: CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 11:59 AM
                                    > She's not a soccer mom-- she's a HOCKEY mom, a much
                                    > more all-white buzzword for rich
                                    > whites or poor whites. As pointed out in Dan's post,
                                    > her company was called red neck; her
                                    > future son-in-law advertises himself on facebook as a
                                    > f---kin redneck. It's very scary that
                                    > people are responding to her purely on the grounds that
                                    > she's a mom and inhaling the
                                    > coolaid at the same time. Barbara Bush is a mom. Marie
                                    > Antoinette was a mom. And this
                                    > one is like Evita as a mom. It's a shame that women
                                    > feel so unacknowledged in their
                                    > struggles that her claim to be a hockey mom--which was a
                                    > decade ago by the way-- and
                                    > not while she's been a governor is winning people over.
                                    > I heard a woman last night say
                                    > she's great because she's a hockey mom because it
                                    > shows she can really manage her time
                                    > because hockey momming is so time consuming. But she's
                                    > not being a hockey mom, she's
                                    > organizing you.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com, Katherine Knowles
                                    > <klk1946@... > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > yes, that is the dialogue I was hoping for...I do not
                                    > believe for a
                                    > > minute that she is "inexperienced" ...and
                                    > this is the direction we need
                                    > > to look, not at her soccer momming and her small town
                                    > girl appeal....we
                                    > > go in the wrong direction if we follow the mainstream
                                    > deprecators and
                                    > > buy the labels she wears. The soccer mom appeal WILL
                                    > win votes and
                                    > > that is what is so dangerous. Thank you.
                                    > > On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Dan Leighton wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to
                                    > do with her being a
                                    > > > woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican
                                    > party Rush Limbaugh
                                    > > > proudly calls her, a "babe."
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous
                                    > choice by McCain, and
                                    > > > given how she will activate the Christian Right
                                    > base, and be
                                    > > > championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil
                                    > propaganda apparatus, from
                                    > > > FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly
                                    > likely that we will have
                                    > > > President Palin within the next 4 years (given
                                    > McCain's health and
                                    > > > age). 
                                    > > > With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard
                                    > for him to get
                                    > > > elected.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > She has deep ties to the fanatic Christian Right,
                                    > the Oil industry,
                                    > > > and has acted in a Rovian, dictatorial manner in
                                    > her official
                                    > > > capacity.  She also wants to outlaw abortion,
                                    > even in cases of rape
                                    > > > and incest, or when the mother's life is in
                                    > danger.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Some info sources:
                                    > > > First, on her fundamentalist Christian extremism,
                                    > see Huffington Post:
                                    > > > "Palin's Church May Have Shaped
                                    > Controversial Worldview"
                                    > > >
                                    > http://www.huffingt onpost.com/ 2008/09/02/ palins-church- may-have-
                                    >
                                    > > > sh_n_123205. html
                                    > > > Please read the whole story.
                                    > > > Some excerpts-
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin
                                    > painted the current war
                                    > > > in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United
                                    > States could act out
                                    > > > the will of the Lord.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "Pray for our military men and women who are
                                    > striving to do what is
                                    > > > right. Also, for this country, that our leaders,
                                    > our national leaders,
                                    > > > are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is
                                    > from God," she
                                    > > > exhorted the congregants. "That's what
                                    > we have to make sure that we're
                                    > > > praying for, that there is a plan and that that
                                    > plan is God's plan."
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in
                                    > Palin's foreign
                                    > > > policy. It was part of her energy proposals as
                                    > well. Just prior to
                                    > > > discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the
                                    > audience to pray for
                                    > > > another matter -- a $30 billion national gas
                                    > pipeline project that she
                                    > > > wanted built in the state. "I think
                                    > God's will has to be done in
                                    > > > unifying people and companies to get that gas
                                    > line built, so pray for
                                    > > > that," she said.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Her Wasilia Assembly of God Pastor Ed Kainins
                                    > makes Jeremiah Wright
                                    > > > seem mild-mannered and moderate.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of
                                    > President Bush will be
                                    > > > banished to hell; questioned whether people who
                                    > voted for Sen. John
                                    > > > Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven;
                                    > charged that the 9/11
                                    > > > terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a
                                    > war "contending for
                                    > > > your faith;" and said that Jesus
                                    > "operated from that position of war
                                    > > > mode." ...
                                    > > > Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush
                                    > was receiving over
                                    > > > the federal government's handling of
                                    > Hurricane Katrina. "I hate
                                    > > > criticisms towards the President," he said,
                                    > "because it's like
                                    > > > criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost
                                    > like, it's not going to
                                    > > > get you anywhere, you know, except for hell.
                                    > That's what it'll get
                                    > > > you."
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Much of his support for the current
                                    > administration has come in the
                                    > > > realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached
                                    > that the 9/11 attacks
                                    > > > and the invasion of Iraq were part of a
                                    > "world war" over the Christian
                                    > > > faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon
                                    > believers to be
                                    > > > willing to sacrifice their lives.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > He preaches repeatedly about the "end
                                    > times" or "last days," an
                                    > > > apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal
                                    > group of Christian
                                    > > > leaders. During his appearance with Palin in
                                    > June, he declared, "I
                                    > > > believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the
                                    > last days, and
                                    > > > hundreds of thousands of people are going to come
                                    > to the state to seek
                                    > > > refuge and the church has to be ready to minister
                                    > to them."
                                    > > > He also claims to have received direct
                                    > "words of knowledge" from God,
                                    > > > providing him information about past events in
                                    > other people's lives.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > As to Palin's actual record, see the
                                    > following stories from Randi
                                    > > > Rhodes (despite her ranting style, one of our few
                                    > remaining
                                    > > > investigative journalists, along with Amy Goodman
                                    > of Democracy Now,
                                    > > > arrested this week at the RNC).
                                    > > > Check out the links.
                                    > > > Especially see the link about her vicious use of
                                    > her powers, & efforts
                                    > > > to ban books from the local library.
                                    > > > From: http://www.therandi rhodesshow. com/
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Do you think she'll include the title her
                                    > little town won?  "METH
                                    > > > CAPITAL OF ALASKA" That's right, in 2003
                                    > the Mat-Su area (Wasilla
                                    > > > Alaska) authorities uncovered 9 Meth labs. By
                                    > 2004 the number of meth
                                    > > > labs in Wasilla jumped to 42!
                                    > > >
                                    > http://www.juneauem pire.com/ stories/030805/ sta_20050308002. shtml
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Meth Lab Cleanup in Wasilla IS BIG BUSINESS
                                    > > > http://homemethtest kit.com/index. php?q=99629
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Meanwhile the Wasilla police were conducting
                                    > raids with automatic
                                    > > > weapons on POKER GAMES?
                                    > > > McGregor knew many of the people arrested in the
                                    > Wasilla raid two
                                    > > > weeks ago. He said he's been told that there
                                    > were as many as 20 police
                                    > > > officers - armed with automatic weapons -
                                    > involved in the bust. He
                                    > > > said he can't understand why police are using
                                    > valuable resources to
                                    > > > arrest otherwise law-abiding citizens for
                                    > gambling with their own
                                    > > > money. Aren't we the meth capital of
                                    > Alaska?" he asks. "Why are we
                                    > > > busting poker games? No one is going to
                                    > Gestapo-style raid your house
                                    > > > on Super Bowl Sunday" '
                                    > > >
                                    > http://www.frontier sman.com/ articles/ 2007/04/29/ news/news6. txt
                                    > > > And Sarah was BANNING BOOKS in the Wasilla
                                    > library.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Mayor/Dictator
                                    > > > Sarah Palin brought Rovian tactics to a small
                                    > town Mayor's race. Once
                                    > > > in office, she governed with an iron...far right,
                                    > Christian
                                    > > > conservative. ...fist. Right down to the books she
                                    > wanted banned from
                                    > > > the Wasilla library
                                    > > >
                                    > http://www.time. com/time/ politics/ article/0, 8599,1837918, 00.html?
                                    > > > imw=Y
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > OR THAT SHE REFUSES TO PAY HER TAXES??
                                    > > > Palin failed to declare a business she owned. 
                                    > The business was
                                    > > > dissolved by the state for non payment of fees
                                    > owed.  She also started
                                    > > > a failed Marketing Company named Rouge Cou. 
                                    > Translated from THE
                                    > > > FRENCH it means "Red neck"
                                    > > >
                                    > http://voices. washingtonpost. com/the-trail/ 2008/09/02/ palin_scrubbing
                                    > > > _car_wash.html
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The letter advising her that she failed to pay
                                    > States fees owed on her
                                    > > > business (a car wash) was written on her own
                                    > letterhead?
                                    > > >
                                    > http://media. washingtonpost. com/wp-srv/ politics/ pdf/warninglette r
                                    > > > 20070211.pdf
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Even John McCain criticized Sarah Palin's
                                    > addiction to PORK
                                    > > >
                                    > http://www.latimes. com/news/ printedition/ front/la- na-earmarks3- 2008
                                    > > > sep03,0,284198. story
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Frozen Pork Barrel: $27 Million in Fed Funds For
                                    > a Town Of 5,000
                                    > > > Despite their oil wealth, Alaskan pols are
                                    > experts at dipping into
                                    > > > federal funding. Ted Stevens mastered it. His
                                    > protégé' Sarah Palin was
                                    > > > getting good too.
                                    > > >
                                    > http://www.washingt onpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/ article/2008/ 09/01/
                                    > > > AR2008090103148. html?hpid= topnews
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > 3 Degrees of Separation: Sarah Palin-Steven
                                    > Silver-Jack Abramoff
                                    > > > In addition to being Ted Stevens' chief of
                                    > staff, Mayor Palin's
                                    > > > lobbyist Steven Silver was an Abramoff confidant
                                    > > >
                                    > http://tpmmuckraker .talkingpointsme mo.com/2008/ 09/palins_ lobbyist
                                    > > > has_abramoff_ t.php
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Alaska #3 on The Federal Spending List.......
                                    > > > For every buck they send in taxes, the get almost
                                    > two back.
                                    > > >
                                    > http://www.. taxfoundation. org/research/ show/266. html
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Katherine Knowles
                                    > <klk1946@... > wrote:
                                    > > > From: Katherine Knowles <klk1946@... >
                                    > > >> all these rational arguments aside, and given
                                    > that the strategy is
                                    > > >> clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman,
                                    > as a politician and as an
                                    > > >> American given the tokenism and apalling
                                    > opportunism behind this
                                    > > >> choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is
                                    > probably one of her best
                                    > > >> qualifications, just try it for one season
                                    > and see how many of those
                                    > > >> "experienced" politicos you
                                    > mentioned could handle that job!
                                    > > >> Perhaps,
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> in their own perverted and twisted way, the
                                    > Republicans have just
                                    > > >> expressed some kind of leap of faith and
                                    > decided that political
                                    > > >> experience may not, at this stage of the game
                                    > be what is called for,
                                    > > >> instead, Call your mother! Please, let's
                                    > give this courageous if
                                    > > >> unfortunately misaligned woman her just
                                    > acknowledgement and not be
                                    > > >> quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot
                                    > of people I would never
                                    > > >> have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                                    > > >> On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@ ...
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> >  
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in
                                    > U.S. History
                                    > > >> >  
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM
                                    > (EST)
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > Robert J. Elisberg
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > Huffingtonpost. com
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > There was a TV ad for deodorant that
                                    > said, "Never let them see you
                                    > > >> > sweat." The John McCain campaign
                                    > has just showed the world that it
                                    > > >> is
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> > drenched.
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for
                                    > a vice presidential
                                    > > >> candidate
                                    > > >> > is perhaps the worst such choice in
                                    > American History. To be fair,
                                    > > >> > maybe there are worse choices, but I
                                    > don't know how bad William O.
                                    > > >> > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass
                                    > against Zachary Taylor.
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >

                                  • a.gronowicz@att.net
                                    Christopher Long was just freed of phony charges placed upon him by the NYPD.  The cop who knocked him off his bike remains suspended.  Over a million hits
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Sep 5, 2008
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                                      Christopher Long was just freed of phony charges placed upon him by the NYPD.  The cop who knocked him off his bike remains suspended.  Over a million hits on You-Tube provided enough evidence.  Hence, the reason for Amy Goodman and her crew being attacked by Homeland Security [sic] in St. Paul.  
                                       
                                      Tony
                                    • Barry S. Willdorf
                                      Folks, I just don t get the reasoning behind the anti-Obama and third party advocates. Gut check: Sarah Palin HATES US. Her supporters HATE US. And by us, I
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 5, 2008
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                                        Message
                                        Folks, I just don't get the reasoning behind the anti-Obama and third party advocates.
                                         
                                        Gut check: Sarah Palin HATES US. Her supporters HATE US. And by us, I don't just mean a bunch of aging sixties radicals on an obscure list serve. She and her ilk hate half the country, probably a lot more than half because they've spent the last thirty years disenfranchising the poor and making non-entities out of large segments of our working people. You can see the HATE, the contempt in their smirky supercilious faces. You can hear it in there rhetoric and their ridicule. They've been bullying and abusing people for so long that they are in deathly fear of a day of reckoning. They fear it because they are best friends with revenge. The tools of their trade are retaliation and retribution and they live in fear of what they know they would and will do to others. They know they've made a lot of enemies and they are fearful that if Obama gets elected he will do unto them what they've been doing to everyone from recalcitrant appointees to CIA case officers all the way down to small town librarians for years. (Oh yeah, in case you may not have gotten the message, they hate Palestinians more than Obama does, and when push comes to shove, you'll find out they hate Jews more than Obama does and if you take a really close look, you'll find they hate just about everybody that doesn't go to their church.) They hide behind the language of Christian love but what they spew is HATE.
                                         
                                        What we have here is a party of HATE, people of HATE, politics of HATE. You can't say you Love America when you hate the majority of the people who live here. They call themselves the party of LINCOLN but they nurture hatred and secessionism. Lincoln said that a house divided against itself cannot stand but their overarching goal is to divide. Cut them no slack -NONE. For once, let's all rise above the petty purist politics that has so long been the hallmark of an irrelevant left. Wake up from that dream of building the perfect party that agrees with you on every bit of obscurist dogma (because, guess what, you can put the number of people who agree with those of you who advocate "building" that 3rd party on a postage stamp.)  and come on folks, get a grip.
                                         
                                        Why isn't a simple vote against hate good enough for all of us? Wasn't that our common denominator once? Why not once again?
                                         
                                        They win again they'll be coming for this little sanctuary of a list serve as soon as the finish frying up the bigger fish.
                                         
                                         

                                        Barry S. Willdorf
                                        556 Chenery Street
                                        San Francisco, CA 94131
                                        Tel. 415-841-1700; Fax: 415-841-1711
                                        Email: bsw@...

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: thulanidavis [mailto:temne2@...]
                                        Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:59 AM
                                        To: CU68-08Event@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [CU68-08Event] Re: The Real problems with Sarah Palin

                                        She's not a soccer mom-- she's a HOCKEY mom, a much more all-white buzzword for rich
                                        whites or poor whites. As pointed out in Dan's post, her company was called red neck; her
                                        future son-in-law advertises himself on facebook as a f---kin redneck. It's very scary that
                                        people are responding to her purely on the grounds that she's a mom and inhaling the
                                        coolaid at the same time. Barbara Bush is a mom. Marie Antoinette was a mom. And this
                                        one is like Evita as a mom. It's a shame that women feel so unacknowledged in their
                                        struggles that her claim to be a hockey mom--which was a decade ago by the way-- and
                                        not while she's been a governor is winning people over. I heard a woman last night say
                                        she's great because she's a hockey mom because it shows she can really manage her time
                                        because hockey momming is so time consuming. But she's not being a hockey mom, she's
                                        organizing you.

                                        --- In CU68-08Event@ yahoogroups. com, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@... > wrote:
                                        >
                                        > yes, that is the dialogue I was hoping for...I do not believe for a
                                        > minute that she is "inexperienced" ...and this is the direction we need
                                        > to look, not at her soccer momming and her small town girl appeal....we
                                        > go in the wrong direction if we follow the mainstream deprecators and
                                        > buy the labels she wears. The soccer mom appeal WILL win votes and
                                        > that is what is so dangerous. Thank you.
                                        > On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Dan Leighton wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > The Real problem with Sarah Palin has nothing to do with her being a
                                        > > woman, or even, as her patron in the Republican party Rush Limbaugh
                                        > > proudly calls her, a "babe."
                                        > >
                                        > > This is a strategically brilliant, and dangerous choice by McCain, and
                                        > > given how she will activate the Christian Right base, and be
                                        > > championed by the mainstream Corporate Oil propaganda apparatus, from
                                        > > FOX to the NY Times & NPR, I think it highly likely that we will have
                                        > > President Palin within the next 4 years (given McCain's health and
                                        > > age). 
                                        > > With the slime about to hit Obama, it may be hard for him to get
                                        > > elected.
                                        > >
                                        > > She has deep ties to the fanatic Christian Right, the Oil industry,
                                        > > and has acted in a Rovian, dictatorial manner in her official
                                        > > capacity.  She also wants to outlaw abortion, even in cases of rape
                                        > > and incest, or when the mother's life is in danger.
                                        > >
                                        > > Some info sources:
                                        > > First, on her fundamentalist Christian extremism, see Huffington Post:
                                        > > "Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview"
                                        > > http://www.huffingt onpost.com/ 2008/09/02/ palins-church- may-have-
                                        > > sh_n_123205. html
                                        > > Please read the whole story.
                                        > > Some excerpts-
                                        > >
                                        > > Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war
                                        > > in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out
                                        > > the will of the Lord.
                                        > >
                                        > > "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is
                                        > > right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders,
                                        > > are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she
                                        > > exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're
                                        > > praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."
                                        > >
                                        > > Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in Palin's foreign
                                        > > policy. It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to
                                        > > discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for
                                        > > another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she
                                        > > wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in
                                        > > unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for
                                        > > that," she said.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Her Wasilia Assembly of God Pastor Ed Kainins makes Jeremiah Wright
                                        > > seem mild-mannered and moderate.
                                        > >
                                        > > Pastor Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be
                                        > > banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John
                                        > > Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11
                                        > > terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for
                                        > > your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war
                                        > > mode." ...
                                        > > Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over
                                        > > the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina. "I hate
                                        > > criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like
                                        > > criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to
                                        > > get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get
                                        > > you."
                                        > >
                                        > > Much of his support for the current administration has come in the
                                        > > realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks
                                        > > and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian
                                        > > faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be
                                        > > willing to sacrifice their lives.
                                        > >
                                        > > He preaches repeatedly about the "end times" or "last days," an
                                        > > apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian
                                        > > leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I
                                        > > believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and
                                        > > hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek
                                        > > refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them."
                                        > > He also claims to have received direct "words of knowledge" from God,
                                        > > providing him information about past events in other people's lives.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > As to Palin's actual record, see the following stories from Randi
                                        > > Rhodes (despite her ranting style, one of our few remaining
                                        > > investigative journalists, along with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now,
                                        > > arrested this week at the RNC).
                                        > > Check out the links.
                                        > > Especially see the link about her vicious use of her powers, & efforts
                                        > > to ban books from the local library.
                                        > > From: http://www.therandi rhodesshow. com/
                                        > >
                                        > > Do you think she'll include the title her little town won?  "METH
                                        > > CAPITAL OF ALASKA" That's right, in 2003 the Mat-Su area (Wasilla
                                        > > Alaska) authorities uncovered 9 Meth labs. By 2004 the number of meth
                                        > > labs in Wasilla jumped to 42!
                                        > > http://www.juneauem pire.com/ stories/030805/ sta_20050308002. shtml
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Meth Lab Cleanup in Wasilla IS BIG BUSINESS
                                        > > http://homemethtest kit.com/index. php?q=99629
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Meanwhile the Wasilla police were conducting raids with automatic
                                        > > weapons on POKER GAMES?
                                        > > McGregor knew many of the people arrested in the Wasilla raid two
                                        > > weeks ago. He said he's been told that there were as many as 20 police
                                        > > officers - armed with automatic weapons - involved in the bust. He
                                        > > said he can't understand why police are using valuable resources to
                                        > > arrest otherwise law-abiding citizens for gambling with their own
                                        > > money. Aren't we the meth capital of Alaska?" he asks. "Why are we
                                        > > busting poker games? No one is going to Gestapo-style raid your house
                                        > > on Super Bowl Sunday" '
                                        > > http://www.frontier sman.com/ articles/ 2007/04/29/ news/news6. txt
                                        > > And Sarah was BANNING BOOKS in the Wasilla library.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Mayor/Dictator
                                        > > Sarah Palin brought Rovian tactics to a small town Mayor's race. Once
                                        > > in office, she governed with an iron...far right, Christian
                                        > > conservative. ...fist. Right down to the books she wanted banned from
                                        > > the Wasilla library
                                        > > http://www.time. com/time/ politics/ article/0, 8599,1837918, 00.html?
                                        > > imw=Y
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > OR THAT SHE REFUSES TO PAY HER TAXES??
                                        > > Palin failed to declare a business she owned.  The business was
                                        > > dissolved by the state for non payment of fees owed.  She also started
                                        > > a failed Marketing Company named Rouge Cou.  Translated from THE
                                        > > FRENCH it means "Red neck"
                                        > > http://voices. washingtonpost. com/the-trail/ 2008/09/02/ palin_scrubbing
                                        > > _car_wash.html
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > The letter advising her that she failed to pay States fees owed on her
                                        > > business (a car wash) was written on her own letterhead?
                                        > > http://media. washingtonpost. com/wp-srv/ politics/ pdf/warninglette r
                                        > > 20070211.pdf
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Even John McCain criticized Sarah Palin's addiction to PORK
                                        > > http://www.latimes. com/news/ printedition/ front/la- na-earmarks3- 2008
                                        > > sep03,0,284198. story
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Frozen Pork Barrel: $27 Million in Fed Funds For a Town Of 5,000
                                        > > Despite their oil wealth, Alaskan pols are experts at dipping into
                                        > > federal funding. Ted Stevens mastered it. His protégé' Sarah Palin was
                                        > > getting good too.
                                        > > http://www.washingt onpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/ article/2008/ 09/01/
                                        > > AR2008090103148. html?hpid= topnews
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > 3 Degrees of Separation: Sarah Palin-Steven Silver-Jack Abramoff
                                        > > In addition to being Ted Stevens' chief of staff, Mayor Palin's
                                        > > lobbyist Steven Silver was an Abramoff confidant
                                        > > http://tpmmuckraker .talkingpointsme mo.com/2008/ 09/palins_ lobbyist
                                        > > has_abramoff_ t.php
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Alaska #3 on The Federal Spending List.......
                                        > > For every buck they send in taxes, the get almost two back.
                                        > > http://www.. taxfoundation. org/research/ show/266. html
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- On Thu, 9/4/08, Katherine Knowles <klk1946@... > wrote:
                                        > > From: Katherine Knowles <klk1946@... >
                                        > >> all these rational arguments aside, and given that the strategy is
                                        > >> clearly insulting to Sarah Palin as a woman, as a politician and as an
                                        > >> American given the tokenism and apalling opportunism behind this
                                        > >> choice, I do need to say...SOCCER MOM is probably one of her best
                                        > >> qualifications, just try it for one season and see how many of those
                                        > >> "experienced" politicos you mentioned could handle that job!
                                        > >> Perhaps,
                                        > >>
                                        > >> in their own perverted and twisted way, the Republicans have just
                                        > >> expressed some kind of leap of faith and decided that political
                                        > >> experience may not, at this stage of the game be what is called for,
                                        > >> instead, Call your mother! Please, let's give this courageous if
                                        > >> unfortunately misaligned woman her just acknowledgement and not be
                                        > >> quite so dismissive. She actually has a lot of people I would never
                                        > >> have suspected, cheering for her tonite.
                                        > >> On Aug 30, 2008, at 5:57 AM, a.gronowicz@ ... wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >> >  
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > The Worst Vice-Presidential Nominee in U.S. History
                                        > >> >  
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Posted August 29, 2008 | 04:30 PM (EST)
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Robert J. Elisberg
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Huffingtonpost. com
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you
                                        > >> > sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it
                                        > >> is
                                        > >>
                                        > >> > drenched.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential
                                        > >> candidate
                                        > >> > is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair,
                                        > >> > maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O.
                                        > >> > Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >

                                      • a.gronowicz@att.net
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMk-7c1eK9c
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 9, 2008
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