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blender with cnc toolkit

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  • Matt
    Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this forum is now a SHOW AND SELL instead of a show and tell . I have been reading
    Message 1 of 15 , May 3, 2013
      Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.

      I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as successful as it should have been.

      1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will not work (just a guess).

      2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods of creating cnc work for whatever reason.

      So here some ideas that I have...

      I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...) is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender. I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not kick me out).

      BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.

      I hope this not the end.
    • walter
      ... Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven t see the videos on my channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a few
      Message 2 of 15 , May 3, 2013
        --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <precastguy@...> wrote:
        >
        > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
        >
        > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as successful as it should have been.
        >
        > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will not work (just a guess).
        >
        > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
        >
        > So here some ideas that I have...
        >
        > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...) is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender. I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not kick me out).
        >
        > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
        >
        > I hope this not the end.
        >
        Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender. I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an email and I will help as much as is possible for me.

        Walter
      • Yves Gauvreau
        Hi, I m not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it s an excellent program, it s not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
        Message 3 of 15 , May 4, 2013
          Hi,



          I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
          program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
          "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
          can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.



          Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
          commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
          explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
          machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have an
          appropriate CNC machine.



          Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to just
          about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
          this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM program
          capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.



          My 2 cent,

          Yves













          From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of walter
          Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
          To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit







          --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
          "Matt" <precastguy@...> wrote:
          >
          > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
          forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
          >
          > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
          dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at
          'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
          successful as it should have been.
          >
          > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
          fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new
          version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will
          not work (just a guess).
          >
          > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos
          explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
          step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a
          very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but
          have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
          any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods
          of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
          >
          > So here some ideas that I have...
          >
          > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps
          from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...)
          is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
          Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender.
          I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
          too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
          forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
          kick me out).
          >
          > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to
          me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions
          and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In
          the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many
          times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky
          to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
          >
          > I hope this not the end.
          >
          Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
          channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a
          few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
          explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
          gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
          is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
          on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender.
          I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would
          be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign
          country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
          email and I will help as much as is possible for me.

          Walter





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael
          Hi Guys, Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it. I may have
          Message 4 of 15 , May 4, 2013
            Hi Guys,
            Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.

            I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.

            Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.

            I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax, version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.

            The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into. I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.

            There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM, Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.

            For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax, but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into Rhino/Grasshopper.

            I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for me).
            Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender & Rhino/Grasshopper.

            I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code & have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in space & cannot get a grasp of it.

            Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
            Cheers!



            --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
            > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
            > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
            > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
            >
            >
            >
            > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
            > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
            > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
            > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have an
            > appropriate CNC machine.
            >
            >
            >
            > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to just
            > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
            > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM program
            > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
            >
            >
            >
            > My 2 cent,
            >
            > Yves
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of walter
            > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
            > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
            > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
            > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
            > >
            > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
            > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at
            > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
            > successful as it should have been.
            > >
            > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
            > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new
            > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will
            > not work (just a guess).
            > >
            > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos
            > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
            > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a
            > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but
            > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
            > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods
            > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
            > >
            > > So here some ideas that I have...
            > >
            > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps
            > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...)
            > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
            > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender.
            > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
            > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
            > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
            > kick me out).
            > >
            > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to
            > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions
            > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In
            > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many
            > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky
            > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
            > >
            > > I hope this not the end.
            > >
            > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
            > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a
            > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
            > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
            > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
            > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
            > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender.
            > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would
            > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign
            > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
            > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
            >
            > Walter
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Matt
            Hi, I googled Blender cam and found the forum for Blender CAM . Pildanovak is the author and the script is very new and has a ways to go. I probably will get
            Message 5 of 15 , May 4, 2013
              Hi,

              I googled Blender cam and found the forum for 'Blender CAM'. Pildanovak is the author and the script is very new and has a ways to go. I probably will get in touch with him to see where he is going with it.

              I have never used Rhino or Blender. I am sure Blender is more of a learning curve than Rhino but I don't have a $1000 dollars to invest in learning Rhino. I am to scared to ask what 3dsMax cost now! This is why I am now learning Blender. I believe you customize the interface to look like anything you want. This would be a great help in that others can drive the car without knowing everything that is under the hood.

              Mike thanks for the heads up on Eulers and Quaternions. I did a quick search in toolkit script and found many instances of 'quatToEuler' functions. This makes sense in that every vertex can be described with 3 (x,y,z) point reference with angles. I am not a math expert but I vaguely remember 'Matrices' and 'Linear Algebra' from my old days of college. I believe I can really figure this out when I have time. I am sure there are parallels with Rhino and Blender with this algorithm and will share anything I learn.

              Walter you have made some great videos on height mapping using Gimp. I look so forward to seeing the other videos you are producing. If Danny was around I know he would be very proud of your videos.

              Matt


              --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Guys,
              > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
              >
              > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
              >
              > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
              >
              > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax, version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
              >
              > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into. I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
              >
              > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM, Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
              >
              > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax, but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into Rhino/Grasshopper.
              >
              > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for me).
              > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender & Rhino/Grasshopper.
              >
              > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code & have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in space & cannot get a grasp of it.
              >
              > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
              > Cheers!
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
              > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
              > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
              > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
              > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
              > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
              > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have an
              > > appropriate CNC machine.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to just
              > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
              > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM program
              > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > My 2 cent,
              > >
              > > Yves
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
              > > Behalf Of walter
              > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
              > > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
              > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
              > > >
              > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
              > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at
              > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
              > > successful as it should have been.
              > > >
              > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
              > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new
              > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will
              > > not work (just a guess).
              > > >
              > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos
              > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
              > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a
              > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but
              > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
              > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods
              > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
              > > >
              > > > So here some ideas that I have...
              > > >
              > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps
              > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...)
              > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
              > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender.
              > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
              > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
              > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
              > > kick me out).
              > > >
              > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to
              > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions
              > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In
              > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many
              > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky
              > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
              > > >
              > > > I hope this not the end.
              > > >
              > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
              > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a
              > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
              > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
              > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
              > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
              > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender.
              > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would
              > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign
              > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
              > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
              > >
              > > Walter
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Yves Gauvreau
              Michael, ok I was very wrong about the price, I thought it was much less. But still IMHO using Blender wouldn t be the solution. Yes you have the source code
              Message 6 of 15 , May 5, 2013
                Michael,

                ok I was very wrong about the price, I thought it was much less. But still
                IMHO using Blender wouldn't be the solution. Yes you have the source code
                and a script language if not more than one, but it would be so much work
                that I wonder if it's even worth consideration.



                I'm curious about why you would consider Grasshopper? Rhino3d alone, that I
                can understand, even if it's not free, it would cheaper then 3DSMax and as a
                bonus it understands Nurbs and a lot more.



                Thanks,

                Yves







                From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Michael
                Sent: May-04-13 8:00 AM
                To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit





                Hi Guys,
                Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still
                requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.

                I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM
                program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I
                know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis
                component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.

                Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would
                be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want
                to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is
                really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but
                I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right
                away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.

                I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax,
                version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I
                understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better
                option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.

                The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used
                by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing
                & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for
                the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so
                people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper
                which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into.
                I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but
                have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.

                There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM,
                Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.

                For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax,
                but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into
                Rhino/Grasshopper.

                I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the
                ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper
                (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for
                me).
                Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender &
                Rhino/Grasshopper.

                I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script
                defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code &
                have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in
                space & cannot get a grasp of it.

                Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                Cheers!

                --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com,
                "Yves Gauvreau" < <mailto:gauvreau-yves@...> gauvreau-yves@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi,
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
                > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the
                required
                > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
                >
                >
                >
                > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have
                an
                > appropriate CNC machine.
                >
                >
                >
                > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to
                just
                > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM
                program
                > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                >
                >
                >
                > My 2 cent,
                >
                > Yves
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > From: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com]
                On
                > Behalf Of walter
                > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                > To: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                < <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
                > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                > >
                > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook
                at
                > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                > successful as it should have been.
                > >
                > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
                > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each
                new
                > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually
                will
                > not work (just a guess).
                > >
                > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no
                videos
                > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created
                a
                > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory
                but
                > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
                > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant
                methods
                > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                > >
                > > So here some ideas that I have...
                > >
                > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height
                maps
                > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape,
                etc...)
                > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
                > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in
                Blender.
                > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
                > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                > kick me out).
                > >
                > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell
                to
                > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering
                questions
                > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine.
                In
                > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out.
                Many
                > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are
                lucky
                > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                > >
                > > I hope this not the end.
                > >
                > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in
                a
                > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
                > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
                > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
                > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
                > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for
                blender.
                > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give
                would
                > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is
                foreign
                > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
                > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                >
                > Walter
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Michael
                This is good. I ll keep posting here for sure & keep sharing what I find & figure out while using & attempting to translate into Rhino/Grasshopper & I m sure
                Message 7 of 15 , May 5, 2013
                  This is good. I'll keep posting here for sure & keep sharing what I find & figure out while using & attempting to translate into Rhino/Grasshopper & I'm sure we'll keep it going at least at some level & we may get some more interest going in the forum again. Keep it going . . .
                  Cheers!

                  --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <precastguy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > I googled Blender cam and found the forum for 'Blender CAM'. Pildanovak is the author and the script is very new and has a ways to go. I probably will get in touch with him to see where he is going with it.
                  >
                  > I have never used Rhino or Blender. I am sure Blender is more of a learning curve than Rhino but I don't have a $1000 dollars to invest in learning Rhino. I am to scared to ask what 3dsMax cost now! This is why I am now learning Blender. I believe you customize the interface to look like anything you want. This would be a great help in that others can drive the car without knowing everything that is under the hood.
                  >
                  > Mike thanks for the heads up on Eulers and Quaternions. I did a quick search in toolkit script and found many instances of 'quatToEuler' functions. This makes sense in that every vertex can be described with 3 (x,y,z) point reference with angles. I am not a math expert but I vaguely remember 'Matrices' and 'Linear Algebra' from my old days of college. I believe I can really figure this out when I have time. I am sure there are parallels with Rhino and Blender with this algorithm and will share anything I learn.
                  >
                  > Walter you have made some great videos on height mapping using Gimp. I look so forward to seeing the other videos you are producing. If Danny was around I know he would be very proud of your videos.
                  >
                  > Matt
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Guys,
                  > > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                  > >
                  > > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                  > >
                  > > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                  > >
                  > > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax, version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                  > >
                  > > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into. I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                  > >
                  > > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM, Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                  > >
                  > > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax, but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into Rhino/Grasshopper.
                  > >
                  > > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for me).
                  > > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender & Rhino/Grasshopper.
                  > >
                  > > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code & have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                  > >
                  > > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                  > > Cheers!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi,
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
                  > > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
                  > > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                  > > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                  > > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                  > > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                  > > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have an
                  > > > appropriate CNC machine.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to just
                  > > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                  > > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM program
                  > > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > My 2 cent,
                  > > >
                  > > > Yves
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > > > Behalf Of walter
                  > > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                  > > > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                  > > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
                  > > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                  > > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at
                  > > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                  > > > successful as it should have been.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
                  > > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new
                  > > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will
                  > > > not work (just a guess).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos
                  > > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                  > > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a
                  > > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but
                  > > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
                  > > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods
                  > > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps
                  > > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...)
                  > > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
                  > > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender.
                  > > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
                  > > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                  > > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                  > > > kick me out).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to
                  > > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions
                  > > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In
                  > > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many
                  > > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky
                  > > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I hope this not the end.
                  > > > >
                  > > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                  > > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a
                  > > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
                  > > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
                  > > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
                  > > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
                  > > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender.
                  > > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would
                  > > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign
                  > > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
                  > > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                  > > >
                  > > > Walter
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Michael
                  Well, Grasshopper is a graphic scripting plug-in for Rhino & is a free download if you have Rhino, either version 4 or 5. You basically can create everything
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 5, 2013
                    Well, Grasshopper is a graphic scripting plug-in for Rhino & is a free download if you have Rhino, either version 4 or 5. You basically can create everything parametricaly in Rhino using it. So that's what I'm talking about is doing it in Grasshopper so that your toolpaths, as you develop them, are parametric & more easily accessible to manipulate for most users. I just think Rhino is the most versatile as far as working with other 3d programs, & with Grasshopper, it's really flexible. That's where I'm coming from. But I think any translation is a good idea & will help however I can & share what I'm working on.

                    Cheers!

                    --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Michael,
                    >
                    > ok I was very wrong about the price, I thought it was much less. But still
                    > IMHO using Blender wouldn't be the solution. Yes you have the source code
                    > and a script language if not more than one, but it would be so much work
                    > that I wonder if it's even worth consideration.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm curious about why you would consider Grasshopper? Rhino3d alone, that I
                    > can understand, even if it's not free, it would cheaper then 3DSMax and as a
                    > bonus it understands Nurbs and a lot more.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Yves
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf Of Michael
                    > Sent: May-04-13 8:00 AM
                    > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Guys,
                    > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still
                    > requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                    >
                    > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM
                    > program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I
                    > know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis
                    > component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                    >
                    > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would
                    > be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want
                    > to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is
                    > really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but
                    > I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right
                    > away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                    >
                    > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax,
                    > version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I
                    > understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better
                    > option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                    >
                    > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used
                    > by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing
                    > & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for
                    > the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so
                    > people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper
                    > which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into.
                    > I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but
                    > have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                    >
                    > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM,
                    > Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                    >
                    > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax,
                    > but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into
                    > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                    >
                    > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the
                    > ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper
                    > (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for
                    > me).
                    > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender &
                    > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                    >
                    > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script
                    > defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code &
                    > have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in
                    > space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                    >
                    > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                    > Cheers!
                    >
                    > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com,
                    > "Yves Gauvreau" < <mailto:gauvreau-yves@> gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi,
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
                    > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the
                    > required
                    > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                    > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                    > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                    > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                    > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have
                    > an
                    > > appropriate CNC machine.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to
                    > just
                    > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                    > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM
                    > program
                    > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > My 2 cent,
                    > >
                    > > Yves
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On
                    > > Behalf Of walter
                    > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                    > > To: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                    > < <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                    > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
                    > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                    > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook
                    > at
                    > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                    > > successful as it should have been.
                    > > >
                    > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
                    > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each
                    > new
                    > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually
                    > will
                    > > not work (just a guess).
                    > > >
                    > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no
                    > videos
                    > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                    > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created
                    > a
                    > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory
                    > but
                    > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
                    > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant
                    > methods
                    > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                    > > >
                    > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                    > > >
                    > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height
                    > maps
                    > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape,
                    > etc...)
                    > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
                    > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in
                    > Blender.
                    > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
                    > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                    > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                    > > kick me out).
                    > > >
                    > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell
                    > to
                    > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering
                    > questions
                    > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine.
                    > In
                    > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out.
                    > Many
                    > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are
                    > lucky
                    > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                    > > >
                    > > > I hope this not the end.
                    > > >
                    > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                    > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in
                    > a
                    > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
                    > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
                    > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
                    > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
                    > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for
                    > blender.
                    > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give
                    > would
                    > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is
                    > foreign
                    > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
                    > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                    > >
                    > > Walter
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Yves Gauvreau
                    Michael, Grasshopper sounds very promising indeed. I agree with you also about Rhino, if it s not the most versatile, it s pretty close, unfortunately it s
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 6, 2013
                      Michael,



                      Grasshopper sounds very promising indeed. I agree with you also about
                      Rhino, if it's not the most versatile, it's pretty close, unfortunately it's
                      not free. I think the original idea behind the CNCToolkit was to provide
                      (freely) a way to generate 5 axis g-code from free software, in this case,
                      GMax.



                      I don't know much about the CNCToolkit but I think the main idea behind it
                      that allows the generation of 5 axis toolpath is that it needs to find the
                      surface normal vector at some vertex on a surface, then it just needs to
                      move and or rotate the axis to bring the tool coincident with this normal
                      vector. I've taken a look at the help file of the VBScript editor and I
                      believe it provides all the necessary functions to compute these normal
                      vectors and as far as I can see it also provide all the transformation
                      functions (matrix) to do the job required.



                      Even if it's possible to implement the functionality of the CNCToolkit into
                      Rhino I wonder if this is worth all the effort that will be required and if
                      the folks here are willing to pay a $1k to have it, especially that they
                      already have it for free.



                      Regards,

                      Yves









                      From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Michael
                      Sent: May-05-13 8:47 PM
                      To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit






                      Well, Grasshopper is a graphic scripting plug-in for Rhino & is a free
                      download if you have Rhino, either version 4 or 5. You basically can create
                      everything parametricaly in Rhino using it. So that's what I'm talking about
                      is doing it in Grasshopper so that your toolpaths, as you develop them, are
                      parametric & more easily accessible to manipulate for most users. I just
                      think Rhino is the most versatile as far as working with other 3d programs,
                      & with Grasshopper, it's really flexible. That's where I'm coming from. But
                      I think any translation is a good idea & will help however I can & share
                      what I'm working on.

                      Cheers!

                      --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                      "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Michael,
                      >
                      > ok I was very wrong about the price, I thought it was much less. But still
                      > IMHO using Blender wouldn't be the solution. Yes you have the source code
                      > and a script language if not more than one, but it would be so much work
                      > that I wonder if it's even worth consideration.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I'm curious about why you would consider Grasshopper? Rhino3d alone, that
                      I
                      > can understand, even if it's not free, it would cheaper then 3DSMax and as
                      a
                      > bonus it understands Nurbs and a lot more.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Yves
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                      On
                      > Behalf Of Michael
                      > Sent: May-04-13 8:00 AM
                      > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Guys,
                      > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it
                      still
                      > requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                      >
                      > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis
                      CAM
                      > program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example
                      I
                      > know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis
                      > component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                      >
                      > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that
                      would
                      > be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want
                      > to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is
                      > really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it,
                      but
                      > I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up
                      right
                      > away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                      >
                      > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax,
                      > version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I
                      > understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better
                      > option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                      >
                      > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is
                      used
                      > by a huge number of people around the world in many different
                      manufacturing
                      > & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for
                      > the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open
                      so
                      > people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper
                      > which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into.
                      > I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but
                      > have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                      >
                      > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis
                      CAM,
                      > Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                      >
                      > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax,
                      > but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into
                      > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                      >
                      > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make
                      the
                      > ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper
                      > (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for
                      > me).
                      > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender &
                      > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                      >
                      > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script
                      > defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code &
                      > have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in
                      > space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                      >
                      > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                      > Cheers!
                      >
                      > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                      <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                      > "Yves Gauvreau" < <mailto:gauvreau-yves@> gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi,
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an
                      excellent
                      > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the
                      > required
                      > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                      > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.

                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                      > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                      > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                      > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you
                      have
                      > an
                      > > appropriate CNC machine.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to
                      > just
                      > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                      > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM
                      > program
                      > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > My 2 cent,
                      > >
                      > > Yves
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                      <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > [mailto: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                      > On
                      > > Behalf Of walter
                      > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                      > > To: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                      <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > < <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                      > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps
                      this
                      > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                      > > >
                      > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                      > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his
                      ebook
                      > at
                      > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                      > > successful as it should have been.
                      > > >
                      > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer
                      and
                      > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each
                      > new
                      > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually
                      > will
                      > > not work (just a guess).
                      > > >
                      > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no
                      > videos
                      > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                      > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it
                      created
                      > a
                      > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory
                      > but
                      > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will
                      provide
                      > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant
                      > methods
                      > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                      > > >
                      > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                      > > >
                      > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height
                      > maps
                      > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape,
                      > etc...)
                      > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok
                      with
                      > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in
                      > Blender.
                      > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is
                      fine
                      > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                      > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                      > > kick me out).
                      > > >
                      > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell
                      > to
                      > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering
                      > questions
                      > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine.
                      > In
                      > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out.
                      > Many
                      > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are
                      > lucky
                      > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                      > > >
                      > > > I hope this not the end.
                      > > >
                      > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                      > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task
                      in
                      > a
                      > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every
                      step
                      > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping
                      in
                      > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender.
                      That
                      > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you
                      go
                      > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for
                      > blender.
                      > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give
                      > would
                      > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is
                      > foreign
                      > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me
                      an
                      > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                      > >
                      > > Walter
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Matt
                      Hi Mike, I looked at Grasshopper and it looks promising. I saw a video on grasshopper with your cnc machine...very impressive! But now I confused because it
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 6, 2013
                        Hi Mike,

                        I looked at Grasshopper and it looks promising. I saw a video on grasshopper with your cnc machine...very impressive! But now I confused because it looks like it is a simultaneous 5 axis operation??? For a thousand dollars I could invest in Rhino 5 if it can do 5 axis gcode.

                        How close are you to getting Grasshopper to work with 5 axis? Perhaps this is the way to go. All you need is the holy grail for Eulers/Quaternions algorithm??? Please let me know...I think I could do this for you. Is there a way I can get a demo for Rhino 5 and look at the Grasshopper plugin?


                        --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Guys,
                        > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                        >
                        > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                        >
                        > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                        >
                        > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax, version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                        >
                        > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into. I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                        >
                        > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM, Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                        >
                        > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax, but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into Rhino/Grasshopper.
                        >
                        > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for me).
                        > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender & Rhino/Grasshopper.
                        >
                        > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code & have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                        >
                        > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                        > Cheers!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi,
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
                        > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
                        > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                        > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                        > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                        > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                        > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have an
                        > > appropriate CNC machine.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to just
                        > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                        > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM program
                        > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > My 2 cent,
                        > >
                        > > Yves
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > > Behalf Of walter
                        > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                        > > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                        > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
                        > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                        > > >
                        > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                        > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at
                        > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                        > > successful as it should have been.
                        > > >
                        > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
                        > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new
                        > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will
                        > > not work (just a guess).
                        > > >
                        > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos
                        > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                        > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a
                        > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but
                        > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
                        > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods
                        > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                        > > >
                        > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                        > > >
                        > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps
                        > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...)
                        > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
                        > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender.
                        > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
                        > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                        > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                        > > kick me out).
                        > > >
                        > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to
                        > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions
                        > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In
                        > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many
                        > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky
                        > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                        > > >
                        > > > I hope this not the end.
                        > > >
                        > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                        > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a
                        > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
                        > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
                        > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
                        > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
                        > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender.
                        > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would
                        > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign
                        > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
                        > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                        > >
                        > > Walter
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • Yves Gauvreau
                        Michael, I ve found the following code to implement the quat2Euler function in whatever programming language you want. This is matlab code, so you ll probably
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 7, 2013
                          Michael,



                          I've found the following code to implement the quat2Euler function in
                          whatever programming language you want. This is matlab code, so you'll
                          probably need to make sure each function used here as an equivalent in the
                          language you choose.



                          function [ang]=quat2euler(b)

                          % This function converts a quaternion to Euler angles as described

                          % in Addendix D of the book

                          % Aided Navigation: GPS and high rate sensors

                          % Jay A. Farrell, 2008, Mc Graw-Hill

                          %

                          % This software is distibuted without a written or implied warranty.

                          % The software is for educational purposes and is not intended for

                          % use in applications. Adaptation for applications is at the

                          % users/developers risk.



                          b = b/norm(b);



                          ang(1) = limit(atan2(2*(b(3)*b(4)-b(1)*b(2)),1-2*(b(2)^2+b(3)^2)));

                          ang(2) = asin(-2*(b(2)*b(4)+b(1)*b(3)));

                          ang(3) = limit(atan2(2*(b(2)*b(3)-b(1)*b(4)),1-2*(b(3)^2+b(4)^2)));





                          function [y]=limit(x)



                          while x>pi

                          x=x-2*pi;

                          end

                          while x<=-pi

                          x=x+2*pi;

                          end

                          y=x;



                          It's possible you'll have a hard time with the Norm function which I didn't
                          find in Rhino (VBScript) but here the definition of it
                          (http://www.matrixanalysis.com/Page281.pdf)



                          Thanks,

                          Yves





                          From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Michael
                          Sent: May-05-13 8:47 PM
                          To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit






                          Well, Grasshopper is a graphic scripting plug-in for Rhino & is a free
                          download if you have Rhino, either version 4 or 5. You basically can create
                          everything parametricaly in Rhino using it. So that's what I'm talking about
                          is doing it in Grasshopper so that your toolpaths, as you develop them, are
                          parametric & more easily accessible to manipulate for most users. I just
                          think Rhino is the most versatile as far as working with other 3d programs,
                          & with Grasshopper, it's really flexible. That's where I'm coming from. But
                          I think any translation is a good idea & will help however I can & share
                          what I'm working on.

                          Cheers!

                          --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                          "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Michael,
                          >
                          > ok I was very wrong about the price, I thought it was much less. But still
                          > IMHO using Blender wouldn't be the solution. Yes you have the source code
                          > and a script language if not more than one, but it would be so much work
                          > that I wonder if it's even worth consideration.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I'm curious about why you would consider Grasshopper? Rhino3d alone, that
                          I
                          > can understand, even if it's not free, it would cheaper then 3DSMax and as
                          a
                          > bonus it understands Nurbs and a lot more.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Yves
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                          On
                          > Behalf Of Michael
                          > Sent: May-04-13 8:00 AM
                          > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Guys,
                          > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it
                          still
                          > requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                          >
                          > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis
                          CAM
                          > program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example
                          I
                          > know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis
                          > component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                          >
                          > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that
                          would
                          > be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want
                          > to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is
                          > really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it,
                          but
                          > I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up
                          right
                          > away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                          >
                          > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax,
                          > version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I
                          > understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better
                          > option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                          >
                          > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is
                          used
                          > by a huge number of people around the world in many different
                          manufacturing
                          > & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for
                          > the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open
                          so
                          > people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper
                          > which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into.
                          > I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but
                          > have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                          >
                          > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis
                          CAM,
                          > Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                          >
                          > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax,
                          > but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into
                          > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                          >
                          > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make
                          the
                          > ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper
                          > (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for
                          > me).
                          > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender &
                          > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                          >
                          > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script
                          > defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code &
                          > have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in
                          > space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                          >
                          > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                          > Cheers!
                          >
                          > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                          > "Yves Gauvreau" < <mailto:gauvreau-yves@> gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hi,
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an
                          excellent
                          > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the
                          > required
                          > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                          > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.

                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                          > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                          > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                          > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you
                          have
                          > an
                          > > appropriate CNC machine.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to
                          > just
                          > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                          > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM
                          > program
                          > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > My 2 cent,
                          > >
                          > > Yves
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > From: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > [mailto: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                          > On
                          > > Behalf Of walter
                          > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                          > > To: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                          <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > < <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                          > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps
                          this
                          > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                          > > >
                          > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                          > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his
                          ebook
                          > at
                          > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                          > > successful as it should have been.
                          > > >
                          > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer
                          and
                          > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each
                          > new
                          > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually
                          > will
                          > > not work (just a guess).
                          > > >
                          > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no
                          > videos
                          > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                          > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it
                          created
                          > a
                          > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory
                          > but
                          > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will
                          provide
                          > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant
                          > methods
                          > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                          > > >
                          > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                          > > >
                          > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height
                          > maps
                          > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape,
                          > etc...)
                          > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok
                          with
                          > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in
                          > Blender.
                          > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is
                          fine
                          > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                          > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                          > > kick me out).
                          > > >
                          > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell
                          > to
                          > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering
                          > questions
                          > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine.
                          > In
                          > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out.
                          > Many
                          > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are
                          > lucky
                          > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                          > > >
                          > > > I hope this not the end.
                          > > >
                          > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                          > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task
                          in
                          > a
                          > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every
                          step
                          > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping
                          in
                          > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender.
                          That
                          > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you
                          go
                          > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for
                          > blender.
                          > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give
                          > would
                          > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is
                          > foreign
                          > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me
                          an
                          > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                          > >
                          > > Walter
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Michael
                          Thanks Yves, I think this is great stuff. We ll forge ahead. Cheers!
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 7, 2013
                            Thanks Yves, I think this is great stuff. We'll forge ahead.
                            Cheers!

                            --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Michael,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I've found the following code to implement the quat2Euler function in
                            > whatever programming language you want. This is matlab code, so you'll
                            > probably need to make sure each function used here as an equivalent in the
                            > language you choose.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > function [ang]=quat2euler(b)
                            >
                            > % This function converts a quaternion to Euler angles as described
                            >
                            > % in Addendix D of the book
                            >
                            > % Aided Navigation: GPS and high rate sensors
                            >
                            > % Jay A. Farrell, 2008, Mc Graw-Hill
                            >
                            > %
                            >
                            > % This software is distibuted without a written or implied warranty.
                            >
                            > % The software is for educational purposes and is not intended for
                            >
                            > % use in applications. Adaptation for applications is at the
                            >
                            > % users/developers risk.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > b = b/norm(b);
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ang(1) = limit(atan2(2*(b(3)*b(4)-b(1)*b(2)),1-2*(b(2)^2+b(3)^2)));
                            >
                            > ang(2) = asin(-2*(b(2)*b(4)+b(1)*b(3)));
                            >
                            > ang(3) = limit(atan2(2*(b(2)*b(3)-b(1)*b(4)),1-2*(b(3)^2+b(4)^2)));
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > function [y]=limit(x)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > while x>pi
                            >
                            > x=x-2*pi;
                            >
                            > end
                            >
                            > while x<=-pi
                            >
                            > x=x+2*pi;
                            >
                            > end
                            >
                            > y=x;
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > It's possible you'll have a hard time with the Norm function which I didn't
                            > find in Rhino (VBScript) but here the definition of it
                            > (http://www.matrixanalysis.com/Page281.pdf)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Yves
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf Of Michael
                            > Sent: May-05-13 8:47 PM
                            > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Well, Grasshopper is a graphic scripting plug-in for Rhino & is a free
                            > download if you have Rhino, either version 4 or 5. You basically can create
                            > everything parametricaly in Rhino using it. So that's what I'm talking about
                            > is doing it in Grasshopper so that your toolpaths, as you develop them, are
                            > parametric & more easily accessible to manipulate for most users. I just
                            > think Rhino is the most versatile as far as working with other 3d programs,
                            > & with Grasshopper, it's really flexible. That's where I'm coming from. But
                            > I think any translation is a good idea & will help however I can & share
                            > what I'm working on.
                            >
                            > Cheers!
                            >
                            > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                            > "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Michael,
                            > >
                            > > ok I was very wrong about the price, I thought it was much less. But still
                            > > IMHO using Blender wouldn't be the solution. Yes you have the source code
                            > > and a script language if not more than one, but it would be so much work
                            > > that I wonder if it's even worth consideration.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I'm curious about why you would consider Grasshopper? Rhino3d alone, that
                            > I
                            > > can understand, even if it's not free, it would cheaper then 3DSMax and as
                            > a
                            > > bonus it understands Nurbs and a lot more.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Thanks,
                            > >
                            > > Yves
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                            > On
                            > > Behalf Of Michael
                            > > Sent: May-04-13 8:00 AM
                            > > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Guys,
                            > > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it
                            > still
                            > > requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                            > >
                            > > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis
                            > CAM
                            > > program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example
                            > I
                            > > know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis
                            > > component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                            > >
                            > > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that
                            > would
                            > > be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want
                            > > to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is
                            > > really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it,
                            > but
                            > > I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up
                            > right
                            > > away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                            > >
                            > > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax,
                            > > version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I
                            > > understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better
                            > > option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                            > >
                            > > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is
                            > used
                            > > by a huge number of people around the world in many different
                            > manufacturing
                            > > & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for
                            > > the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open
                            > so
                            > > people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper
                            > > which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into.
                            > > I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but
                            > > have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                            > >
                            > > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis
                            > CAM,
                            > > Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                            > >
                            > > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax,
                            > > but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into
                            > > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                            > >
                            > > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make
                            > the
                            > > ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper
                            > > (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for
                            > > me).
                            > > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender &
                            > > Rhino/Grasshopper.
                            > >
                            > > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script
                            > > defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code &
                            > > have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in
                            > > space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                            > >
                            > > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                            > > Cheers!
                            > >
                            > > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                            > > "Yves Gauvreau" < <mailto:gauvreau-yves@> gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi,
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an
                            > excellent
                            > > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the
                            > > required
                            > > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                            > > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
                            >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                            > > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                            > > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                            > > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you
                            > have
                            > > an
                            > > > appropriate CNC machine.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to
                            > > just
                            > > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                            > > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM
                            > > program
                            > > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > My 2 cent,
                            > > >
                            > > > Yves
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > From: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > [mailto: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                            > > On
                            > > > Behalf Of walter
                            > > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                            > > > To: <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > < <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                            > > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps
                            > this
                            > > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                            > > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his
                            > ebook
                            > > at
                            > > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                            > > > successful as it should have been.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer
                            > and
                            > > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each
                            > > new
                            > > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually
                            > > will
                            > > > not work (just a guess).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no
                            > > videos
                            > > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                            > > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it
                            > created
                            > > a
                            > > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory
                            > > but
                            > > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will
                            > provide
                            > > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant
                            > > methods
                            > > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height
                            > > maps
                            > > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape,
                            > > etc...)
                            > > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok
                            > with
                            > > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in
                            > > Blender.
                            > > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is
                            > fine
                            > > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                            > > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                            > > > kick me out).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell
                            > > to
                            > > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering
                            > > questions
                            > > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine.
                            > > In
                            > > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out.
                            > > Many
                            > > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are
                            > > lucky
                            > > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I hope this not the end.
                            > > > >
                            > > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                            > > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task
                            > in
                            > > a
                            > > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every
                            > step
                            > > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping
                            > in
                            > > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender.
                            > That
                            > > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you
                            > go
                            > > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for
                            > > blender.
                            > > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give
                            > > would
                            > > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is
                            > > foreign
                            > > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me
                            > an
                            > > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                            > > >
                            > > > Walter
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Harko Schwartz
                            Try madcam plugin for rhino less than 2000 HARKO Schwartz Ncme Inc 409 S Ridge Rd Perkasie,Pa 18944 2152579438 Harko@harko.com Www.harko.com ... [Non-text
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 7, 2013
                              Try madcam plugin for rhino less than 2000

                              HARKO Schwartz

                              Ncme Inc
                              409 S Ridge Rd
                              Perkasie,Pa 18944
                              2152579438
                              Harko@...
                              Www.harko.com

                              On May 6, 2013, at 6:55 PM, "Matt" <precastguy@...> wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Mike,
                              >
                              > I looked at Grasshopper and it looks promising. I saw a video on grasshopper with your cnc machine...very impressive! But now I confused because it looks like it is a simultaneous 5 axis operation??? For a thousand dollars I could invest in Rhino 5 if it can do 5 axis gcode.
                              >
                              > How close are you to getting Grasshopper to work with 5 axis? Perhaps this is the way to go. All you need is the holy grail for Eulers/Quaternions algorithm??? Please let me know...I think I could do this for you. Is there a way I can get a demo for Rhino 5 and look at the Grasshopper plugin?
                              >
                              > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi Guys,
                              > > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                              > >
                              > > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                              > >
                              > > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                              > >
                              > > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax, version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                              > >
                              > > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into. I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                              > >
                              > > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM, Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                              > >
                              > > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax, but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into Rhino/Grasshopper.
                              > >
                              > > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for me).
                              > > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender & Rhino/Grasshopper.
                              > >
                              > > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code & have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                              > >
                              > > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                              > > Cheers!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi,
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
                              > > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
                              > > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                              > > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                              > > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                              > > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                              > > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have an
                              > > > appropriate CNC machine.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to just
                              > > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                              > > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM program
                              > > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > My 2 cent,
                              > > >
                              > > > Yves
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                              > > > Behalf Of walter
                              > > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                              > > > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                              > > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
                              > > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                              > > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at
                              > > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                              > > > successful as it should have been.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
                              > > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new
                              > > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will
                              > > > not work (just a guess).
                              > > > >
                              > > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos
                              > > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                              > > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a
                              > > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but
                              > > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
                              > > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods
                              > > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps
                              > > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...)
                              > > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
                              > > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender.
                              > > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
                              > > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                              > > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                              > > > kick me out).
                              > > > >
                              > > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to
                              > > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions
                              > > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In
                              > > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many
                              > > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky
                              > > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I hope this not the end.
                              > > > >
                              > > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                              > > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a
                              > > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
                              > > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
                              > > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
                              > > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
                              > > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender.
                              > > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would
                              > > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign
                              > > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
                              > > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                              > > >
                              > > > Walter
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Michael
                              Took a look Harko - none of the videos were working. Pricing sounds nice, but cannot see how it works. The idea of this forum is to further the development
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 9, 2013
                                Took a look Harko - none of the videos were working. Pricing sounds nice, but cannot see how it works. The idea of this forum is to further the development of the CNC_ToolKit though & it's completely customizable so you can make any kind of toolpath you want up to 6 axes. The forum isn't for advertising, but thanks for the info.
                                Cheers! email me when you get the videos working.

                                --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, Harko Schwartz <ncmeinc@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Try madcam plugin for rhino less than 2000
                                >
                                > HARKO Schwartz
                                >
                                > Ncme Inc
                                > 409 S Ridge Rd
                                > Perkasie,Pa 18944
                                > 2152579438
                                > Harko@...
                                > Www.harko.com
                                >
                                > On May 6, 2013, at 6:55 PM, "Matt" <precastguy@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi Mike,
                                > >
                                > > I looked at Grasshopper and it looks promising. I saw a video on grasshopper with your cnc machine...very impressive! But now I confused because it looks like it is a simultaneous 5 axis operation??? For a thousand dollars I could invest in Rhino 5 if it can do 5 axis gcode.
                                > >
                                > > How close are you to getting Grasshopper to work with 5 axis? Perhaps this is the way to go. All you need is the holy grail for Eulers/Quaternions algorithm??? Please let me know...I think I could do this for you. Is there a way I can get a demo for Rhino 5 and look at the Grasshopper plugin?
                                > >
                                > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mike@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi Guys,
                                > > > Yves, I agree with you that the toolkit probably translatable, but it still requires a pretty extensive knowledge of programming to do it.
                                > > >
                                > > > I may have missed something, but where can you get a simultaneous 5 axis CAM program for less than $10,000 again? can you share some links? For example I know there is RhinoCam, but this program, with the simultaneous 5 axis component is about $13,000 USD. I'd have to mortgage the house to do that.
                                > > >
                                > > > Matt, I say if you have a handle on Blender, then go for it, but that would be a huge learning curve for me and I think a lot of others. Most who want to manufacture something have some kind of CAD background & blender is really an animation tool as I understand it. I've messed around with it, but I feel like I'm in a foreign country. I tried out Rhino & picked it up right away & did an entire project in it within a couple months.
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm thinking either go with Gmax - or, you know Gmax is Autodesk's 3dsMax, version 4 & the Toolkit works in all the later versions of 3dsMax as I understand it. That being said, I would think 3dsMax would be a better option than Blender because then you don't have to translate the toolkit.
                                > > >
                                > > > The other option I'm thinking about is to use Rhino3d. This program is used by a huge number of people around the world in many different manufacturing & design industries - just about all you can think of - plus the price for the full commercial version is just under $1000. The source code is open so people are making a lot of plug-ins. It also has RhinoScript &Grasshopper which I would think would be a great option to translate the toolkit into. I've started a Grasshopper definition to do the Tasks of the ToolKit, but have not gotten very far. Support for Rhino/Grasshopper is HUGE as well.
                                > > >
                                > > > There are a few out there writing Grasshopper definitions to do 3 axis CAM, Gcode, & machining, but no-one doing simultaneous 5 axis yet to speak of.
                                > > >
                                > > > For the moment, I'm able to generate code for a few 5 axis pieces in Gmax, but have my eyes open for ways to develop the toolkit into Rhino/Grasshopper.
                                > > >
                                > > > I know there are a lot of CAD options out there, & I'd like to help make the ToolKit more useful either in Gmax, or translating it to Rhino/Grasshopper (that's really the only translation that I can see as worth the time for me).
                                > > > Keep up the discussion & maybe we end up translating it o both Blender & Rhino/Grasshopper.
                                > > >
                                > > > I think the main key in the translation is to understand how the script defines point and vector locations in space. I've gotten into the code & have gotten up to Eulers vs. Quaternions as methods of locating angles in space & cannot get a grasp of it.
                                > > >
                                > > > Maybe we can move forward helping each other to translate or something.
                                > > > Cheers!
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-yves@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hi,
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'm not an expert in Blender and though I have no doubt it's an excellent
                                > > > > program, it's not a cad program. This makes me wonder if it as the required
                                > > > > "tools" one would need to manipulate vectors as GMax and friends program
                                > > > > can. As some have pointed out the CNCToolkit isn't a CAM program either.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Essentially, the CNCToolkit translate a set of vectors to a series of
                                > > > > commands a CNC machine understands . Though this is a very simplistic
                                > > > > explanation, this functionality allows you to create Gcode program to
                                > > > > machine just about any model one can think of, all this assuming you have an
                                > > > > appropriate CNC machine.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Though I'm sure the functionality of the CNCToolkit is translatable to just
                                > > > > about any programming language with more or less effort. I wonder if all
                                > > > > this work is necessary especially now that you can buy a decent CAM program
                                > > > > capable of producing 5 axis code without having to mortgage the house.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > My 2 cent,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Yves
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > From: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com] On
                                > > > > Behalf Of walter
                                > > > > Sent: May-04-13 12:59 AM
                                > > > > To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Re: blender with cnc toolkit
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CNC_Toolkit%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                > > > > "Matt" <precastguy@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Perhaps no cares or is even interested what I have to say. Perhaps this
                                > > > > forum is now a 'SHOW AND SELL' instead of a 'show and tell'.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I have been reading through old post and see how interest has really
                                > > > > dropped off with cnc toolkit. Danny did an outstanding job with his ebook at
                                > > > > 'cnc4free.org'. I believe there are two main reasons why it was not as
                                > > > > successful as it should have been.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > 1. Gmax is dead program in that it is no longer supported with fewer and
                                > > > > fewer people using it. It crashes a lot and is very unstable. With each new
                                > > > > version of Windows, Gmax becomes more and more unstable and eventually will
                                > > > > not work (just a guess).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > 2. Even though Danny did an A++ job with his tutorial there were no videos
                                > > > > explaining his steps. He wrote his ebook with more theory than a step by
                                > > > > step process. I am big on theory and I appreciate his style but it created a
                                > > > > very huge learning curve. I feel like I have a good grasp on his theory but
                                > > > > have failed in completing many of his task. I don't think he will provide
                                > > > > any more support or expound on further explanations of his brilliant methods
                                > > > > of creating cnc work for whatever reason.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > So here some ideas that I have...
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I want to use Danny's theory and use it in Blender to develop height maps
                                > > > > from Gimp and other freeware programs. Blender (with Gimp, Inkscape, etc...)
                                > > > > is alive and well with many youtube videos to learn from. If it is ok with
                                > > > > Rab, I believe I can reverse engineer Rab's cnc toolkit to work in Blender.
                                > > > > I would like to hear what other people think. If no one cares that is fine
                                > > > > too. This could be one of my last post even though I will be using this
                                > > > > forum for awhile to glean as much info as I can. (Hopefully Rab will not
                                > > > > kick me out).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > BTW... To everyone who shows off there machines and what they can sell to
                                > > > > me, IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But I would rather have input in answering questions
                                > > > > and offering advice than seeing who has the biggest and baddest machine. In
                                > > > > the old days of this forum people were great in helping each other out. Many
                                > > > > times there were post about there are NO stupid questions. Now you are lucky
                                > > > > to get any input on your questions and/or your question is stupid.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I hope this not the end.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my
                                > > > > channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a
                                > > > > few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step
                                > > > > explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in
                                > > > > gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That
                                > > > > is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go
                                > > > > on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender.
                                > > > > I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would
                                > > > > be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign
                                > > > > country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an
                                > > > > email and I will help as much as is possible for me.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Walter
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Matt
                                Walter you are making some awesome videos of height mapping in Gimp. Thank you so much for these videos on you tube.
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 17, 2013
                                  Walter you are making some awesome videos of height mapping in Gimp. Thank you so much for these videos on you tube.
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                                  Hey Mat I totally agree with you. If you haven't see the videos on my channel take a look. I am going to be posting the leave and dragon task in a few days. Both of these tuts will be from start to finish with every step explained. That should bring you up to speed with displacement mapping in gimp. I really like your idea to bring the cnc tool kit into blender. That is a much better supported program with a great supporting base. If you go on the official blender forum there is talk about a cam add on for blender. I don't think it has gotten very far but any help that you could give would be appreciated I am sure. I wish that I could help but programing is foreign country to me. If you have any questions that I can help with shoot me an email and I will help as much as is possible for me.

                                  Walter
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