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RE: CMC: Waterproof-Breathable Jackets

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  • John Lechmanik
    Even with proper layers underneath the shell you can still over sweat your shell. There are a lot of factors. The relative humidity outside, temps, all
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 31, 2007
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      Even with proper layers underneath the shell you can still "over sweat" your shell.  There are a lot of factors.  The relative humidity outside, temps, all that stuff determines how well your shell will allow moisture to escape.   Also the temperature inside your shell will also help determine how well the shell will breathe.  If you are overheating, then that reduces the shells ability to breathe.
       
      I would look more carefully about regulating your temperature (sweating is bad :-) and see if the jacket works before spending a lot of money to get a jacket that won't be any better than the one you have.....
       
      John


      From: SFCMC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SFCMC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michael Palmer
      Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:21 AM
      To: SFCMC@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: CMC: Waterproof-Breathable Jackets

      Thanks Maureen and Roger.  I don't know if the wetness came from inside or out.  It was a wet snow and we were working and sweating but I also had on 2 and 3 layers of synthetic clothing.  In any case at the end of the day the shell jacket was too wet.  If I'd been spending the night out I would have been concerned.

      Maureen Maguire <mlmaguire1@yahoo. com> wrote:

      Hi, go to Marmot Mountain Works in Berkely and talk to
      the store manager there. He can give you the whole
      rundown and show you some products. Personally, there
      is nothing like an Arteryx product but hey, you may
      need to sell your car to own one. Roger is right,
      gortex and other membrane fabric is only for really
      cold weather, which we rarely see here in CA,
      especially at the lower elevations. If you exert hard
      enough to sweat your own condensation builds up and
      cannot escape if the weather is wet as well. You will
      be ringing wet from the inside out. I'm going with a
      silk tshirt, a wool shirt, and a cheap polyurethane
      coated jacket for real downpour protection. All from
      kmart. Maureen
      http://www.marmotmo untain.com/

      --- Roger Reid <rogerreid3@yahoo. com> wrote:

      > Hi,
      >
      > 1. Did your gortex "let in" moisture, or did it
      > contain your own moisture?
      > (That is often the problem, i.e. the gortex is
      > still working, but you do not have sufficient
      > wicking layer/are working extra hard/combination of
      > both).
      >
      > 2. Failing that, the earlier advices about
      > reproofing with Nixwax, or looking at a Golite are
      > very sound points.
      >
      > Roger
      >
      > .
      >
      >
      >
      > mp5of8 <mp5of8@yahoo. com> wrote:
      > Hi I'm looking for some info on Jackets. I
      > need to replace my old
      > North Face Gore-tex Mtn Jacket. I used it today
      > while it was snowing
      > and it soaked through, it isn't on warranty either.
      > There are a lot
      > of new coatings and material on the market, some are
      > a lot cheaper
      > than Gore-tex but I don't know if any are solid
      > products or are they
      > hype? Who is making the best product? What is the
      > state of the art?
      > What have you done well with? I'd like to find
      > something that will
      > work for both winter and summer.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Susan
      Hi MIke, It is possible wear out your gore-tex even if you wash and treat it. I had to replace my old North Face favorite after about 10 years when it started
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 1, 2008
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        Hi MIke,

        It is possible wear out your gore-tex even if you wash and treat it.
        I had to replace my old North Face favorite after about 10 years when
        it started seeping water this fall. Usually I use the gore-tex shell
        when I'm out in a mix of rain and snow. I never put more than a
        silkweight base layer and light fleece under it if I'm active (and
        I'm always the first person to get cold). I bought an Arcteryx beta
        SL from ebay after looking around a lot.

        I also got a used Patagonia stretch element jacket from ebay a few
        months ago. It seems to be completely windproof and waterproof (I've
        soaked it in the rain walking my dog as an experiment) but it still
        stretches and breathes like a soft shell and doesn't have that
        annoying crunchy feel/sound to it in cold weather.

        Hope this helps.

        Susan

        --- In SFCMC@yahoogroups.com, "mp5of8" <mp5of8@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi I'm looking for some info on Jackets. I need to replace my old
        > North Face Gore-tex Mtn Jacket. I used it today while it was
        snowing
        > and it soaked through, it isn't on warranty either. There are a lot
        > of new coatings and material on the market, some are a lot cheaper
        > than Gore-tex but I don't know if any are solid products or are they
        > hype? Who is making the best product? What is the state of the
        art?
        > What have you done well with? I'd like to find something that will
        > work for both winter and summer.
        >
      • Roger Reid
        Michael, Hi, I see that you ve got really sound comment from Clem, Maureen and others; such that I should not make any further comment. Except...... you add
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 2, 2008
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          Michael,  Hi,
           
          I see that you've got really sound comment from Clem, Maureen and others; such that I should not make any further comment.  Except...... you add that you had 2 or three layers of SYNTHETIC clothing......
           
          1. Yes, reproof Goretex if the clothing is older/well used.  Tectron spray is very good - although not as good as when the article left the factory.
          2. However, your using synthetic layers is pretty certain to be, or at least add to, the problem.  Synthetics can handle water moisture, but not water vapor; whereas wool can handle both.  To consider the classic example of gortex boots:  yes, the Gortex people are right when they say that Gortex can breathe.  It can breath better than a polly bag over your foot.  But cotton socks can retain <200% of their weight in water, and so almost-ensures chaffing and blisters.  Wicking socks with a polly outer cannot handle water vapor, and that can cause blisters.  One needs a wicking sock with a wool outer, which retains both water vapor and moisture until they can seep out through the Gortex in their own good time.  (Interestingly, Keene say that their Event boots are better than Gortex since they can breath almost as well as your standard breathable, but that is another story). 
          3. So, by all means reproof your favorite gear to see if that works and saves you a small fortune, but replace the synthetic layers with Smartwool or Icebreaker.  (Arcterix deservedly had a great reputation, but they seem to have "lost the plot" in recent years). 
          Roger
           


          michael Palmer <mp5of8@...> wrote:
          Thanks Maureen and Roger.  I don't know if the wetness came from inside or out.  It was a wet snow and we were working and sweating but I also had on 2 and 3 layers of synthetic clothing.  In any case at the end of the day the shell jacket was too wet.  If I'd been spending the night out I would have been concerned.

          Maureen Maguire <mlmaguire1@yahoo. com> wrote:
          Hi, go to Marmot Mountain Works in Berkely and talk to
          the store manager there. He can give you the whole
          rundown and show you some products. Personally, there
          is nothing like an Arteryx product but hey, you may
          need to sell your car to own one. Roger is right,
          gortex and other membrane fabric is only for really
          cold weather, which we rarely see here in CA,
          especially at the lower elevations. If you exert hard
          enough to sweat your own condensation builds up and
          cannot escape if the weather is wet as well. You will
          be ringing wet from the inside out. I'm going with a
          silk tshirt, a wool shirt, and a cheap polyurethane
          coated jacket for real downpour protection. All from
          kmart. Maureen
          http://www.marmotmo untain.com/

          --- Roger Reid <rogerreid3@yahoo. com> wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > 1. Did your gortex "let in" moisture, or did it
          > contain your own moisture?
          > (That is often the problem, i.e. the gortex is
          > still working, but you do not have sufficient
          > wicking layer/are working extra hard/combination of
          > both).
          >
          > 2. Failing that, the earlier advices about
          > reproofing with Nixwax, or looking at a Golite are
          > very sound points.
          >
          > Roger
          >
          > .
          >
          >
          >
          > mp5of8 <mp5of8@yahoo. com> wrote:
          > Hi I'm looking for some info on Jackets. I
          > need to replace my old
          > North Face Gore-tex Mtn Jacket. I used it today
          > while it was snowing
          > and it soaked through, it isn't on warranty either.
          > There are a lot
          > of new coatings and material on the market, some are
          > a lot cheaper
          > than Gore-tex but I don't know if any are solid
          > products or are they
          > hype? Who is making the best product? What is the
          > state of the art?
          > What have you done well with? I'd like to find
          > something that will
          > work for both winter and summer.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- ---
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          Be a better friend, newshound, and
          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ



          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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