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Re: CMC: Discussion on membership and getting trips scheduled

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  • Tom Cronin
    Hi Patrick, thank so much for responding; you are a perfect case in point: an ideal candidate that has been put off by words. I am taking the liberty of
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 2, 2007
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      Hi Patrick, thank so much for responding; you are a perfect case in point: an ideal candidate that has been put off by "words."  I am taking the liberty of copying the board and group.  Sincerely, Tom Cronin

      Patrick McCormack <pnmccormack@...> wrote:
      Tom,

      I like what you are attempting to do because I am non-member (currently just lurking on the yahoo group list) I have to say I found the CMC application intimidating. I did an alpine ascent of Shasta this July which gave me some good experience on snow, I am getting back into gym climbing (starting out again in 5.9 land) and I am able to carry 40lb packs on mult-day trips. However I feel like I need a bunch of other skills, trips before even attempting to apply and there is always the distinct possibility that I will just forget about it and keep doing climbs and trips with whoever I can rustle up to come along. BTW I don't believe just trying to get existing members to do more is very healthy for the club, a new club needs new members, new members bring new energy and ideas. Maybe all that is needed is the application says all skills are not required to join (so you are not losing potential members right off the bat) however not having certain skills will exclude new provisional members from certain trips. The trip leader advertises the skills required for the trip and its all done on an honor system, if you turn up it is assumed you will have the right gear and skills. If someone new turns up on a trip which requires say rappelling skills they don't need to be tested but the trip leader can just ask what rappelling experience the new person has before allowing them to get in a position where they could get hurt.

      Patrick.

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Tom Cronin <tombcronin@...>
      To: Yahoo Group <sfcmc@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 11:50:53 AM
      Subject: CMC: Discussion on membership and getting trips scheduled

      Hi, thought I would share this dialog in case anyone has insights...
       
      Tom Cronin 
      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
       
      Hi Jan, thanks for the feedback!
       
      I wasn't aware that's how the SCMA operates. Here is one thought: we don't really test people now; I believe it is on the honor system, so maybe just keep it that way?  I am obviously kind of new to this debate.
       
      Agree with you that we need the members we have to be more active.  Maybe a financial incentive like a $50 REI gift certificate for the first trip one leads each year??
       
      Sincerely,
       
      Tom Cronin
      tombcronin@yahoo. com, 925-207-5325
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jan & Joe Lorenzen [
      Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:24 PM
      To: Cronin, Tom (TBCR)
      Subject: Re: CMC Board Agenda
      That would put us in the same boat as the SCMA. Now we would have to test these people to make sure they could go from restricted to provisional.
      We just need to get the members we have to be more active. Recruiting regular members to lead trips and calling our new provisional members and asking them to come on the trips may increase the activity.
      Jan
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Cronin, Tom (TBCR)" <TBCR@chevron. com>
      To: <harnebold@gmail. com>; "Asher Waxman" <amuirman@yahoo. com>; "CARL YEARY"
      <tyeary@...>; "Jan Lorenzen" <jlorenzen1@cox. net>; "Ray Regalado"
      <rayclimbs@yahoo. com>; "Terry Flood" <terryjflood@ gmail.com>; "Joe White"
      <josephlwhite@ earthlink. net>; "Jennifer Hopper"
      <jennifer.hopper@ ucr.edu>; "Art" <rockcairn@hotmail. com>; "Ron Norton"
      <ron.norton@csun. edu>; "Tom Cronin" <TBCR@chevrontexico. com>
      Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:54 AM
      Subject: RE: CMC Board Agenda
       
      Hi Henry & CMC Board Members,
      Here is an agenda item suggestion: on a recent trip a guest came up with the idea of a new membership class.
      Currently there are "regular" and "provisional" classes. Frequently individuals are either rejected for membership, or don't apply for membership, because they are missing skills in one area or another; for example, some might have extensive snow climbing experience but not much technical rock climbing, or vice versa. While admittedly it is great to be well rounded, you never know what to expect, this is generally not the case with climbers today. Also, a new class could be confusing; but I think we need more members.
      So the idea is to have a new class which I'll call "restricted. "
      Members in this class are restricted from climbs for which they do not yet have the skills i.e. snow climbs if no self-arrest skills. Having a new class with more flexibility would help to recruit members. From a liability standpoint, perhaps the signature forms can be updated with something like: "restricted members are prohibited on trips where they do not have the required skills."
      I set up a phone bridge to join a prior meeting but no one called in.
      Let me know if I should set up a bridge for this one.
      Sincerely,
      Tom Cronin
      Bay Area Representative
      tbcr@chevron. com
      925-842-6620 work
      925-207-5325 cell
      -----Original Message-----
      From: harnebold [
      Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:41 PM
      To: Henry A. Arnebold; Asher Waxman; CARL YEARY; Jan Lorenzen; Ray Regalado; Terry Flood; Joe White; Jennifer Hopper; Art; Ron Norton; Tom Cronin
      Subject: CMC Board Agenda
      Hi Everyone,
      I attached the board agenda for next weeks meeting at the Santa Anna REI at 6:30 PM. If you have any questions or would like to add an agenda item please let me know.
      Ron, if you could provide a brief overview of the outings situation I would appreciate it very much. Thanks.
      Asher, please send the treasurer's report. Thanks.
      Tony, are you able to make it to the meeting?
       
      See you on Nov. 8th,
      Henry
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    • Justincompany@aol.com
      Hi All Like Patrick, I am lurking on the yahoo site....and I too was intimidated by the CMC process... I m a relatively new climber but am comfortable now
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 2, 2007
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        Hi All
         
        Like Patrick, I am lurking on the yahoo site....and I too was intimidated by the CMC process...  I'm a relatively new climber but am comfortable now on real number 10b outdoors but felt inadequate by the cmc process.  Tom was very gracious to allow me the opportunity to join a crew he put together to do Temple Crag...and was even more gracious when I had to bail after I over scheduled myself on some hard climbing on the East side... 
         
        To the point...my original intent to join was find partners...at my age..with little free time on my hands...it's tough to find partners who like to climb relatively hard multipitch...so I joined the group hoping to do just that.  I understand the importance of preserving the heritage of the cmc and respect it...but I climb for myself...not necessarily to belong...if there is a desire to grow...maybe there is a middle ground somewhere on membership status.
         
        Just my two cents from waaay back in the corner.
         
        Joe Justin




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      • Steve Powell
        I really don t have a dog in this fight, but thought I would contribute my 2 cents. First of all, Tom I think you are doing a great job. I am an ex board
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 2, 2007
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          I really don't have a dog in this fight, but thought I would contribute my 2 cents. First of all, Tom I think you are doing a great job.
          I am an ex board member(the past three years). I have also been a CMC member for nearly ten years.
          In all honesty, I don't think  the requirements for membership are too tough. You have to set some parameters, or you will have chaos.
          Secondly, at least in southern california, people just don't seem interested in club trips.
          I have had to cancel a number of trips, as I only had one person sign up.  it wasn't worth it to spend the time and money to organize a trip for one person. (I could do a private trip with only one other person).
          don't know what the solution is, but hope the club survives.
          Steve


          Tom Cronin <tombcronin@...> wrote:
          Hi Patrick, thank so much for responding; you are a perfect case in point: an ideal candidate that has been put off by "words."  I am taking the liberty of copying the board and group.  Sincerely, Tom Cronin

          Patrick McCormack <pnmccormack@ yahoo.com> wrote:
          Tom,

          I like what you are attempting to do because I am non-member (currently just lurking on the yahoo group list) I have to say I found the CMC application intimidating. I did an alpine ascent of Shasta this July which gave me some good experience on snow, I am getting back into gym climbing (starting out again in 5.9 land) and I am able to carry 40lb packs on mult-day trips. However I feel like I need a bunch of other skills, trips before even attempting to apply and there is always the distinct possibility that I will just forget about it and keep doing climbs and trips with whoever I can rustle up to come along. BTW I don't believe just trying to get existing members to do more is very healthy for the club, a new club needs new members, new members bring new energy and ideas. Maybe all that is needed is the application says all skills are not required to join (so you are not losing potential members right off the bat) however not having certain skills will exclude new provisional members from certain trips. The trip leader advertises the skills required for the trip and its all done on an honor system, if you turn up it is assumed you will have the right gear and skills. If someone new turns up on a trip which requires say rappelling skills they don't need to be tested but the trip leader can just ask what rappelling experience the new person has before allowing them to get in a position where they could get hurt.

          Patrick.

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Tom Cronin <tombcronin@yahoo. com>
          To: Yahoo Group <sfcmc@yahoogroups. com>
          Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 11:50:53 AM
          Subject: CMC: Discussion on membership and getting trips scheduled

          Hi, thought I would share this dialog in case anyone has insights...
           
          Tom Cronin 
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
           
          Hi Jan, thanks for the feedback!
           
          I wasn't aware that's how the SCMA operates. Here is one thought: we don't really test people now; I believe it is on the honor system, so maybe just keep it that way?  I am obviously kind of new to this debate.
           
          Agree with you that we need the members we have to be more active.  Maybe a financial incentive like a $50 REI gift certificate for the first trip one leads each year??
           
          Sincerely,
           
          Tom Cronin
          tombcronin@yahoo. com, 925-207-5325
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jan & Joe Lorenzen [
          Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:24 PM
          To: Cronin, Tom (TBCR)
          Subject: Re: CMC Board Agenda
          That would put us in the same boat as the SCMA. Now we would have to test these people to make sure they could go from restricted to provisional.
          We just need to get the members we have to be more active. Recruiting regular members to lead trips and calling our new provisional members and asking them to come on the trips may increase the activity.
          Jan
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Cronin, Tom (TBCR)" <TBCR@chevron. com>
          To: <harnebold@gmail. com>; "Asher Waxman" <amuirman@yahoo. com>; "CARL YEARY"
          <tyeary@...>; "Jan Lorenzen" <jlorenzen1@cox. net>; "Ray Regalado"
          <rayclimbs@yahoo. com>; "Terry Flood" <terryjflood@ gmail.com>; "Joe White"
          <josephlwhite@ earthlink. net>; "Jennifer Hopper"
          <jennifer.hopper@ ucr.edu>; "Art" <rockcairn@hotmail. com>; "Ron Norton"
          <ron.norton@csun. edu>; "Tom Cronin" <TBCR@chevrontexico. com>
          Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:54 AM
          Subject: RE: CMC Board Agenda
           
          Hi Henry & CMC Board Members,
          Here is an agenda item suggestion: on a recent trip a guest came up with the idea of a new membership class.
          Currently there are "regular" and "provisional" classes. Frequently individuals are either rejected for membership, or don't apply for membership, because they are missing skills in one area or another; for example, some might have extensive snow climbing experience but not much technical rock climbing, or vice versa. While admittedly it is great to be well rounded, you never know what to expect, this is generally not the case with climbers today. Also, a new class could be confusing; but I think we need more members.
          So the idea is to have a new class which I'll call "restricted. "
          Members in this class are restricted from climbs for which they do not yet have the skills i.e. snow climbs if no self-arrest skills. Having a new class with more flexibility would help to recruit members. From a liability standpoint, perhaps the signature forms can be updated with something like: "restricted members are prohibited on trips where they do not have the required skills."
          I set up a phone bridge to join a prior meeting but no one called in.
          Let me know if I should set up a bridge for this one.
          Sincerely,
          Tom Cronin
          Bay Area Representative
          tbcr@chevron. com
          925-842-6620 work
          925-207-5325 cell
          -----Original Message-----
          From: harnebold [
          Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:41 PM
          To: Henry A. Arnebold; Asher Waxman; CARL YEARY; Jan Lorenzen; Ray Regalado; Terry Flood; Joe White; Jennifer Hopper; Art; Ron Norton; Tom Cronin
          Subject: CMC Board Agenda
          Hi Everyone,
          I attached the board agenda for next weeks meeting at the Santa Anna REI at 6:30 PM. If you have any questions or would like to add an agenda item please let me know.
          Ron, if you could provide a brief overview of the outings situation I would appreciate it very much. Thanks.
          Asher, please send the treasurer's report. Thanks.
          Tony, are you able to make it to the meeting?
           
          See you on Nov. 8th,
          Henry
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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          at both ends of the social spectrum there lies a leisure class.
        • Ric Rattray
          I am not a member, however I have been active on and off for about 30 years in moderate rock climbing, alpine ascents and backcountry ski tours. I like many
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 2, 2007
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            I am not a member, however I have been active on and off for about 30
            years in moderate rock climbing, alpine ascents and backcountry ski
            tours. I like many others aspire to get out as frequently as
            possible. That however is not as easy as it used to be before having
            children. I don't know at this point what is entailed in the
            application for membership. I would hope that it is not restrictive
            to those who only possess high levels of experience as that would
            discourage new members.

            In my opinion a club like this needs to cater to a variety of levels
            of expertise and encourage and help others advance. That is not to
            say that anyone should rely on another to make any trip safe for
            themselves. In mountaineering each individual needs to be able to
            handle a variety of situations and the first is that you should be
            able to manage any trip anticipated within your own comfort level of
            skills. A slight stretch is OK as that is how everyone advances, but
            if conditions warrant such people need to know and acknowledge their
            limits.

            From what I have seen in the few months that I have monitored the
            clubs activities, Tom is a god for all he is doing. Any club will
            need more than one leader to be succesful. I attended the Death
            Slabs trip with Tom and felt completely within my comfort level. I
            wouldn't necessarily feel the same about a 5.8 alpine climb although
            20 years ago I could climb 5.8. The best thing about a club like
            this is to meet potential new friends with similar interests. This
            will be difficult if everyone must be at an extreme level of ability
            and not be willing to help and cater to a lower level. This takes a
            commitment from many to goals that the club may or may not have.

            I have been rambling, however after many years in the mountains and a
            desire to spend more time at my previously obtained levels I also
            need to redevlop my confidence and need to at times climb with other
            of more experience so that my confidence and abilityis increased to
            help others. Without this, new memebers will be hard to attract.
            There are many gym climbers with technical skills that do not have
            adequate mountain experience.

            I hope that Tom can obtain support and that a program catering to
            various levels be developed. I know my limits and others should know
            theirs. The most important thing is to have fun and be safe. If the
            planned objective is not achieved you can always attempt again, I
            them meantime their is always a wonderful mountain experience.
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