Re: [CDV700CLUB] Re: Repair for CDV-717
- Thanks for your response. I think it's probably perfectly OK to ocassionally discuss whatever comes up with the other CDV meters. If enough people complain then it's not.
We are living in a time when it's as likely as ever that some country or terrorist group will cause a nuclear disaster and those who have a Geiger counter or survey meter may find it at least somewhat useful in helping to avoid areas with dangerous levels of radiation.
>>The focus here now is on the hobby use of radiation detection equipment.You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Since this subject doesn't come up very often and many hours go by with no e-mails at all hopefully this isn't a problem.
BTW. I've been on many e-mail groups since 2000 and discussing subjects that are barely related is usually not a problem. There's always an occasional complainer of course.
I've seen a few people on this group through out jokes - nothing to do with the equipment, just stupid stuff. BFD. Like they say, if you don't like it - just hit Delete.
c> Sorry, I mixed you up with the OP, JohnnyM. My apologies.
c> Folks are definitely discussing other devices of all kinds - but
c> what is the point? Is it nuclear attack preparedness or monitoring
c> of radiation levels immediately dangerous to life and health? Or
c> perhaps there's long discusions of the various minutiae of CD
c> collecting, fallout shelters, whathaveyou.
c> I've been on this bulletin board since 2002. Look back in the
c> archives and you'll see the difference in topic and clientele.
c> George Dowell's GeigerCounterEnthusiasts group was actually
c> designed to capture a lot of the hobby discussions on everything
c> from prospecting to spectroscopy - but now they're almost
c> indistinguishable. The focus here now is on the hobby use of radiation detection equipment.
c> Anything wrong with that? Certainly not, as that's what folks
c> want. But, if the OP wants a candid discussion of the emergency
c> applications and calibration of a high-range gamma survey meter -
c> he needs to look elsewhere - as he'll primarily get the response
c> Mr. Nix gave. Some of the Emergency Preparedness forums out there
c> are a good choice to start, and there's plenty of good sources of
c> information out there on the web too.
c> --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Bil Green <magpulser@...> wrote:
>> This is the wrong place to discuss this meter? I'm not the one that started this thread! And the guys are constantly discussing other devices, etc. anyhow. The name of this group indicates that only the CDV 700 should be discussed (but that wouldn't seem fair).c> ------------------------------------
>> Maybe you are referring to Bill (with 2 L's)
>> PC 1000
>> Mammoth Lakes, CA
>> c> Let's try to not mix SI and old units for the sake of discussion.
>> c> Bill, this is the wrong place for this discussion. This listserv
>> c> is now essentially for hobby use and troubleshooting of low-range
>> c> radiation detection equipment. 10 years ago, when the board was
>> c> populated with CD enthusiasts and current RADEF guys, your question
>> c> would've been received differently than it has.
>> c> The bottom line is this - you have three "emergency" scenarios to
>> c> deal with in the perspective of radiation. Accidents, terrorism, and war.
>> c> 1. Accidents - likely to never generate anything you will be
>> c> likely to see, even with low-range equipment like a Ludlum Model 3
>> c> with 44-9 pancake probe. Is it a big worry? Probably no, and the
>> c> cost of all the toys is likely too much squeeze for the juice.
>> c> Folks got all excited about Fukushima, but you know doses are
>> c> miniscule and likely irrelevent to human health when the state labs
>> c> need to use a counting system to detect the crap.
>> c> 2. Terrorism - depends on what they do. Radiological Dispersal
>> c> Weapon (Dirty Bomb) will be a regulatory pain in the ass. Even
>> c> directly at the scene, doses will likely be below what your CD
>> c> V-715 could see. Contamination would be the concern, and it would
>> c> be very confined. Go a few blocks away, and except for panicking
>> c> folks there'd be no danger. No need for gear for that. However, if
>> c> there were a single or multiple actual nuclear detonations - all
>> c> the old RADEF guidance would hold true for the surrounding few
>> c> hundred miles or so. It doesn't need to be a full exchange to ruin your day.
>> c> 3. War - the big time event everyone focuses on. Strategic war
>> c> would involve SURFACE BURST detonations on key installations to
>> c> "dig holes." Air bursts are more effective against soft targets
>> c> like cities, and they too will produce some fallout anyway. Keeping
>> c> internal dose dose down by monitoring for food and water
>> c> contamination, personal/equipment contamination is nice, but
>> c> especially in something like this - that's not a primary concern.
>> c> Ambient exposure rate from the fallout would be. All the old RADEF
>> c> guidance would apply. You'll note that after the expansion of
>> c> arsenals and the development of fusion weapons that desires for
>> c> contamination monitoring of any kind went way down in priority.
>> c> As to instrumentation. CDV stuff is unfortunately at the end of
>> c> it's service life. 50 years of service is more than enough to ask -
>> c> then add on the questionable maintenance practices (Especially in
>> c> the 1980s - we're just getting them by until their new replacements
>> c> come next year, I mean next year, etc...) and poor storage
>> c> conditions. CD V-715 series equipment is the worst for this with a
>> c> high sensitivity to moisture from the get go. IM-174/PD series
>> c> instruments are a bit better. PDRM 82's surplused from NATO are
>> c> great, and idiotic fire departments are ditching Canberra CD V-719
>> c> MiniRadiacs on surplus because there's apparently no threat
>> c> anymore. Check eBay, and remember that any instrument being used
>> c> for health and safety is useless until properly calibrated.
>> c> BTW - There are MANY labs that can calibrate high-range equipment.
>> c> KI4U just does a great job of marketing to civilians for this
>> c> purpose and not just to industry or government uses. If you do
>> c> decide to stick with a CDV series instrument, they're probably the
>> c> most easily available choice with lots of experience with the "yellow boxes."
>> c> --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, David Nix <dnix71@> wrote:
>> >> The chart shows 100uS/hour as "Do Not Stay Here"
>> >> That rate was exceeded near Fukushima driving around in the excluded zone. That rate is also 1/100 of the lowest scale the CDV-715, which means even inside the excludedÂ zone at Fuku, you will get no warning from a CDV-715.
>> >> A CDV-715 would have given readings in a helicopter over Chernobyl, but there would be no reason for any citizen to be that near a burning reactor. The danger there is plain enough that everyone should be running away upwind as fast as they could. There was a lack of common sense at Chernobyl, though. The burning reactor made the sky glow pretty colors so people went outside to watch.
>> >> If there actually is a full scale nuclear exchange between us and the Russians or Chinese, you will not likely encounter significant background gamma radiation from the fallout. Exchanges like that will be air-bursts for maximum damage.
>> >> You will have to contend with contaminated food and water, though. The 715 is completely useless for that. Even a 700 isn't all that good at detecting contamination in food and water. You need a scintiliation detector with a water-proof sleeve to pick up some kinds of contamination. Having a stash of known clean food and water to last at least 2 weeks is the best safety, other than a good wearable dust mask.
>> >> If all you had was a 700, you could unscrew the probe cover and slip a baggy over the 6993 probe before dunking it in your drinks or a pile of food you wanted to check.
>> >> --- On Sat, 6/30/12, Bil Green <magpulser@> wrote:
>> >> From: Bil Green <magpulser@>
>> >> Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Repair for CDV-717
>> >> To: "David Nix" <CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> Date: Saturday, June 30, 2012, 5:24 AM
>> >> Â
>> >> Hi David,
>> >> What do you think about this chart? It indicates that we may have time to find a safer place when the gama levels are around 1
>> >> Rem per hour. I would hope that my CDV-715 would help in a situation like this.
>> >> http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14683057
>> >> Scroll down to gray chart...
>> >> Nuclear Radiation Detection Rate -
>> >> Detector Sensitivity Scales
>> >> I do see what you mean in that if the levels are much higher you only have seconds or minutes to protect yourself. Although considering how 30 people in Nagasaki survived even though they were about a mile from the atomic bomb blast in 1945 I think some of us may find a survey meter very useful (I try to maintain the same diet they were on at that time).
>> >> Bil
>> >> There is no practical use for a 715 / 717 / 720
>> >> They were made for a full scale nuclear war between the US and USSR. After that kind of war if you could see the needle move you would die shortly anyway.
>> >> They can't even be properly tested except by one place in Texas that has the equipment and license to do it.
>> >> It will not work in a useful manner after a nuclear war anyway, since it can only detect very high levels of gamma radiation. A high background of alpha and betas, with food and water contamination would not register.
>> >> --- On Fri, 6/29/12, JohnnyM <jmiller1@> wrote:
>> >> From: JohnnyM <jmiller1@>
>> >> Subject: [CDV700CLUB] Repair for CDV-717
>> >> To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
>> >> Date: Friday, June 29, 2012, 9:32 PM
>> >> I have a CDV-717 survey meter that worked when I bought it but now it doesn't appear to turn on. Can anyone recommend a reliable person or place to get it repaired?
>> >> Much thanks!
>> >> Friday, June 29, 2012, 6:55:53 PM, you wrote:
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>> Saturday, June 30, 2012, 10:07:57 AM, you wrote:
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Saturday, June 30, 2012, 8:20:10 PM, you wrote:
- I just checked and Lee Frank has the JAN5980 probes for sale on his web site. Just add a connector and you are set.SteveFrom: Steve Dubyk <steve.dubyk@...>
To: "CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com" <CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Re: Repair for CDV-717 [1 Attachment]Rather than deal with these types of detectors, you might consider using a JAN5980 tube on the scaler of your choice. I have toyed with these for years and they are very reliable, tolerant of a range of voltages, and easy to modify for use. And while they are not very sensitive, you can actually test them and tell they are working! According to the manual, they are for use in the 50-500 mR/hr range. I've got a few of those things lying around, they have just kind of accumulated.Steve DubykFrom: civildefenseinfo2002 <radiacmeter@...>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: [CDV700CLUB] Re: Repair for CDV-717Some folks buy/sell radiation monitoring equipment for purposes other than amateur science. Doesn't make them a sucker by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps the "sucker" will be those caught without when near a major release of accidental or intentional origin.
JohnnyM - CD V-717's were among the latest CDV series gear purchased en-masse, most delivered in late 1964 and 1965. Unfortunately, they're also among the most finicky to deal with. The connector in the "middle" section is one of the weak spots in the design, and corrosion there is hard to deal with and almost universal. That flaw shorts out the thing and it just pegs the scale. They're extremely sensitive to moisture too. Excessive babying, to include dessicant packs in both compartments, etc. led to only marginal success with keeping the things within spec. I had access to an unlimited supply of instruments, spare parts, a full lab setup and calibrators - and I went through 3 in the course of two years keeping one ready for my use. I'd really recommend another high-range survey meter.
KI4U is really the best source to deal with if you insist upon CDV series equipment. They DO repair outside instruments for a fee. The question is HOW LONG WILL THIS DEVICE STAY RELIABLE? That's the key point with an instrument you're investing in for future emergency use. The IM-174B/PD's surplustuff.com has, the IM-174A/PD's on eBay, etc., etc. are far better choices. Rather buy once than buy multiple times, or worse - have a malfunctioning instrument when you most need it.
--- In mailto:CDV700CLUB%40yahoogroups.com, David Nix <dnix71@...> wrote:
> Cheaper and easier to buy one from eBay. http://www.ki4u.com/ sells and calibrates them, but I don't know if they will repair them.
> This is NOT a criticism of you, but anyone wanting badly to have a 717 fixed is going to be viewed as a "sucker" by anyone who actually sells these. Expect to pay big for it.
> Lee Frank [http://www.surplustuff.com/] might be able to, but he would probably consider it a waste of time.
> --- On Thu, 7/12/12, JohnnyM <jmiller1@...> wrote:
> From: JohnnyM <jmiller1@...>
> Subject: [CDV700CLUB] Re: Repair for CDV-717
> To: mailto:CDV700CLUB%40yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 12, 2012, 10:43 PM
> All relevant discussion aside, Does anyone know where I can get it fixed?
> --- In mailto:CDV700CLUB%40yahoogroups.com, "JohnnyM" <jmiller1@> wrote:
> > I have a CDV-717 survey meter that worked when I bought it but now it doesn't appear to turn on. Can anyone recommend a reliable person or place to get it repaired?
> > Much thanks!