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Re: [CDV700CLUB] Re: ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

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  • troglodite@aol.com
    In a message dated 3/31/2008 6:22:11 PM Central Standard Time, revtkatt@yahoo.com writes: 1. Its known that neon bulbs are light sensitive. Can you use the
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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      In a message dated 3/31/2008 6:22:11 PM Central Standard Time, revtkatt@... writes:
      1. Its known that neon bulbs are light sensitive.  Can you use
      the weak light output from the GC-tube-series-bulb to trigger
      a second neon bulb held just below firing?
      The problem is getting the right neons. Most made today have a tiny bit of some isotope to stabilize their firing point. Finding one that is STILL light sensitive would be a rarity. Also, operating neons very near their firing point is well and good, but once they fire, you have to insure that there is not enough current to keep them on. This usually means some kind of RC network with a high R. But the other end of the R must connect to a point that is below the firing point of the bulb. Neon bulbs, while offering a lot of functionality for a two pin device, are a pain today. Try getting the scaler on a Hoffman Countmaster to work right - if you can find the NE-96 lamps. I am inclined these days to seek alternates like PUJT's (even though no longer made) and even 4layer diodes (also no longer made) over neon bulbs.
      2. For a coincidence detector, you can't set a threshold so that 2
      weak bulbs are needed, but can you put two 'amplifier' bulbs
      in series such that both need to be optically triggered for either
      to fire?
      In theory that sounds great, but finding just the right bulbs, etc. might be quite a chore. A diode AND gate would be much simpler.
       
       




      Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
    • troglodite@aol.com
      In a message dated 3/31/2008 11:46:25 AM Central Standard Time, cdv700@captain.at writes: Thanks :-) Yes, I m pretty satisfied with the outcome. Well, sound
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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        In a message dated 3/31/2008 11:46:25 AM Central Standard Time, cdv700@... writes:
        Thanks :-) Yes, I'm pretty satisfied with the outcome.
        Well, sound is low priority for me, since one would go
        crazy if you have this gadget in the living room and
        it's ticking the whole time ;-)
        This morning I had an idea for a very simple coincidence
        detector. The good thing is that we already have some
        pulse widening due to the SCR-capacitor-discharging.
        You can always put a switch on the sound part. :-) I've used the little piezo speakers that come with some musical greeting cards. As for the coincidence detector, I've played with many of these schemes but there is a problem, and it has to do with the nature of GM tubes in general. Basically, GM tubes do not necessarily respond to every ray that hits them. Therefore, you cannot rely on them for coincidence detection. For this to work, you almost have to go to a scintillator, which DOES respond to every ray that hits it.
         
        But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.
         
        Doug Moore
         




        Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
      • J. Marshall Reber
        ... Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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          On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Troglodite@... wrote:
          But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.


          Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma concerning the finiteness of life and the incompleteness of understanding:  As one ages it becomes more and more apparent that the level at which one can "tinker" a problem is very dependent upon what others have learned in the past.  Ever since Edison "invented" the large scientific laboratory fundamental discoveries of how the universe seems to operate are more and more dependent upon spending an apprenticeship to learn multiple ways of observing nature.  This apprenticeship is neither short nor effortless and is often eschewed by impatient youths.  Indeed, pupils in many secondary schools in the USA , especially boys, would rather become sports heros or rock stars than scientists.  At the college level many of my science and engineering friends notice the yearly decline of applications from domestic students and the growth of foreign applications.  Just today the University of Massachusetts has announced that in order to have sufficient students they will start online programs for students in China.

          When I offered to assist anyone in a local, up-scale town's Boy Scout Troop if anyone wanted to pursue the Atomic Energy Merit Badge, I was refused with the admonishment that concerned parents in that town would never approve of their children being involved with learning anything about terrorist materials.  Imagine, from parents almost all who have graduated from college!



        • Geo>K0FF
          On the other side of the coin, many who desire to learn are held back by cost. Only when education is free, including educational materials on the internet,
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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            On the other side of the coin, many who desire to learn are held back by cost. Only when education is free, including
            educational materials on the internet, can the US begin catch up with more progressive countries.
             
            Science really can't be taught, it must be learned.
             
            Geo
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:20 AM
            Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org


            On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Troglodite@aol. com wrote:
            But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.


            Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma concerning the finiteness of life and the incompleteness of understanding:  As one ages it becomes more and more apparent that the level at which one can "tinker" a problem is very dependent upon what others have learned in the past.  Ever since Edison "invented" the large scientific laboratory fundamental discoveries of how the universe seems to operate are more and more dependent upon spending an apprenticeship to learn multiple ways of observing nature.  This apprenticeship is neither short nor effortless and is often eschewed by impatient youths.  Indeed, pupils in many secondary schools in the USA , especially boys, would rather become sports heros or rock stars than scientists.  At the college level many of my science and engineering friends notice the yearly decline of applications from domestic students and the growth of foreign applications.  Just today the University of Massachusetts has announced that in order to have sufficient students they will start online programs for students in China.

            When I offered to assist anyone in a local, up-scale town's Boy Scout Troop if anyone wanted to pursue the Atomic Energy Merit Badge, I was refused with the admonishment that concerned parents in that town would never approve of their children being involved with learning anything about terrorist materials.  Imagine, from parents almost all who have graduated from college!



          • troglodite@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/1/2008 7:40:59 AM Central Standard Time, GEOelectronics@netscape.com writes: Science really can t be taught, it must be learned. True of
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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              In a message dated 4/1/2008 7:40:59 AM Central Standard Time, GEOelectronics@... writes:
              Science really can't be taught, it must be learned.
              True of most subjects. What a good teacher should do is teach the student how to learn. "The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
               




              Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
            • Jim Darrough
              How can that work? Somebody has to pay the teachers. From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo K0FF Sent: Tuesday,
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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                How can that work? Somebody has to pay the teachers.

                 

                From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:40 AM
                To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                 

                On the other side of the coin, many who desire to learn are held back by cost. Only when education is free, including

                educational materials on the internet, can the US begin catch up with more progressive countries.

                 

                Science really can't be taught, it must be learned.

                 

                Geo

                 

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:20 AM

                Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                 

                 

                On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Troglodite@... wrote:

                But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.

                 

                 

                Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma concerning the finiteness of life and the incompleteness of understanding:  As one ages it becomes more and more apparent that the level at which one can "tinker" a problem is very dependent upon what others have learned in the past.  Ever since Edison "invented" the large scientific laboratory fundamental discoveries of how the universe seems to operate are more and more dependent upon spending an apprenticeship to learn multiple ways of observing nature.  This apprenticeship is neither short nor effortless and is often eschewed by impatient youths.  Indeed, pupils in many secondary schools in the USA , especially boys, would rather become sports heros or rock stars than scientists.  At the college level many of my science and engineering friends notice the yearly decline of applications from domestic students and the growth of foreign applications.  Just today the University of Massachusetts has announced that in order to have sufficient students they will start online programs for students in China.

                 

                When I offered to assist anyone in a local, up-scale town's Boy Scout Troop if anyone wanted to pursue the Atomic Energy Merit Badge, I was refused with the admonishment that concerned parents in that town would never approve of their children being involved with learning anything about terrorist materials.  Imagine, from parents almost all who have graduated from college!

                 

                 

                 

              • Geo>K0FF
                Jim, who pays the teachers now? Geo ... From: Jim Darrough To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN:
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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                  Jim, who pays the teachers now? Geo
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:38 PM
                  Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                  How can that work? Somebody has to pay the teachers.

                  From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:40 AM
                  To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                  On the other side of the coin, many who desire to learn are held back by cost. Only when education is free, including

                  educational materials on the internet, can the US begin catch up with more progressive countries.

                  Science really can't be taught, it must be learned.

                  Geo

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:20 AM

                  Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                  On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Troglodite@aol. com wrote:

                  But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.

                  Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma concerning the finiteness of life and the incompleteness of understanding:  As one ages it becomes more and more apparent that the level at which one can "tinker" a problem is very dependent upon what others have learned in the past.  Ever since Edison "invented" the large scientific laboratory fundamental discoveries of how the universe seems to operate are more and more dependent upon spending an apprenticeship to learn multiple ways of observing nature.  This apprenticeship is neither short nor effortless and is often eschewed by impatient youths.  Indeed, pupils in many secondary schools in the USA , especially boys, would rather become sports heros or rock stars than scientists.  At the college level many of my science and engineering friends notice the yearly decline of applications from domestic students and the growth of foreign applications.  Just today the University of Massachusetts has announced that in order to have sufficient students they will start online programs for students in China.

                  When I offered to assist anyone in a local, up-scale town's Boy Scout Troop if anyone wanted to pursue the Atomic Energy Merit Badge, I was refused with the admonishment that concerned parents in that town would never approve of their children being involved with learning anything about terrorist materials.  Imagine, from parents almost all who have graduated from college!

                • Jim Darrough
                  I pay them. Students pay them. Taxes pay them. How can we provide free education if we don t pay the teachers? From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 1, 2008
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                    I pay them. Students pay them. Taxes pay them. How can we provide “free” education if we don’t pay the teachers?

                     

                     

                     

                    From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                    Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 11:57 AM
                    To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                     

                    Jim, who pays the teachers now? Geo

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:38 PM

                    Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                     

                    How can that work? Somebody has to pay the teachers.

                    From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                    Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:40 AM
                    To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                    On the other side of the coin, many who desire to learn are held back by cost. Only when education is free, including

                    educational materials on the internet, can the US begin catch up with more progressive countries.

                    Science really can't be taught, it must be learned.

                    Geo

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:20 AM

                    Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                    On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Troglodite@... wrote:


                    But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.

                    Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma concerning the finiteness of life and the incompleteness of understanding:  As one ages it becomes more and more apparent that the level at which one can "tinker" a problem is very dependent upon what others have learned in the past.  Ever since Edison "invented" the large scientific laboratory fundamental discoveries of how the universe seems to operate are more and more dependent upon spending an apprenticeship to learn multiple ways of observing nature.  This apprenticeship is neither short nor effortless and is often eschewed by impatient youths.  Indeed, pupils in many secondary schools in the USA , especially boys, would rather become sports heros or rock stars than scientists.  At the college level many of my science and engineering friends notice the yearly decline of applications from domestic students and the growth of foreign applications.  Just today the University of Massachusetts has announced that in order to have sufficient students they will start online programs for students in China.

                    When I offered to assist anyone in a local, up-scale town's Boy Scout Troop if anyone wanted to pursue the Atomic Energy Merit Badge, I was refused with the admonishment that concerned parents in that town would never approve of their children being involved with learning anything about terrorist materials.  Imagine, from parents almost all who have graduated from college!

                  • Geo>K0FF
                    Well, isn t K-12 free? Why not make K-14 at least also free? But only on the merit system. In otherwords, you must learn something. Right now we have nearly
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                      Well, isn't K-12 free? Why not make K-14 at least also free? But only on the merit system. In otherwords, you must learn
                      something. Right now we have nearly 50% high school US dropout rate in all major cities.

                      Geo
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 2:10 PM
                      Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                      I pay them. Students pay them. Taxes pay them. How can we provide “free” education if we don’t pay the teachers?

                      From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 11:57 AM
                      To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogro ups.com
                      Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                      Jim, who pays the teachers now? Geo

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:38 PM

                      Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                      How can that work? Somebody has to pay the teachers.

                      From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:40 AM
                      To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogro ups.com
                      Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                      On the other side of the coin, many who desire to learn are held back by cost. Only when education is free, including

                      educational materials on the internet, can the US begin catch up with more progressive countries.

                      Science really can't be taught, it must be learned.

                      Geo

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:20 AM

                      Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                      On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Troglodite@aol. com wrote:


                      But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.

                      Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma concerning the finiteness of life and the incompleteness of understanding:  As one ages it becomes more and more apparent that the level at which one can "tinker" a problem is very dependent upon what others have learned in the past.  Ever since Edison "invented" the large scientific laboratory fundamental discoveries of how the universe seems to operate are more and more dependent upon spending an apprenticeship to learn multiple ways of observing nature.  This apprenticeship is neither short nor effortless and is often eschewed by impatient youths.  Indeed, pupils in many secondary schools in the USA , especially boys, would rather become sports heros or rock stars than scientists.  At the college level many of my science and engineering friends notice the yearly decline of applications from domestic students and the growth of foreign applications.  Just today the University of Massachusetts has announced that in order to have sufficient students they will start online programs for students in China.

                      When I offered to assist anyone in a local, up-scale town's Boy Scout Troop if anyone wanted to pursue the Atomic Energy Merit Badge, I was refused with the admonishment that concerned parents in that town would never approve of their children being involved with learning anything about terrorist materials.  Imagine, from parents almost all who have graduated from college!

                    • Steve Jones
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                         < Why not make K-14 at least also free? But only on the merit system. In otherwords, you must learn
                        something. Right now we have nearly 50% high school US dropout rate in all major cities. >
                         
                         
                        It's already free, more free isn't going to entice more to stay.  The allure of drug money or working at McDonalds for the rest of their lives is too much of  a draw.  America has pretty much become what the rest of the 1st world nations believe of us, a bunch of fat, lazy, rude people.  We are quickly on our way to becoming a wealthy third world nation.
                         
                        What we need to find is some sort of compelling reason to stay in school, something like compulsory military service.  Let's say that if you drop out of school, then the remainder of your schooling must be forfeit as unpaid military time.  Those that then want to stay on after their "graduation" can reup as enlisted and paid.  The huge upside is that those kids would also then be learning a real trade instead of drug running.
                         
                        Steve Jones
                      • Jim Darrough
                        No, they are not free. They are mandated by the government and we pay taxes to support these educators. Sometimes we pay local taxes. Geo, I would love to send
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                          No, they are not free. They are mandated by the government and we pay taxes to support these educators. Sometimes we pay local taxes. Geo, I would love to send kids to college tuition free, but there is no way around the fact that SOMEONE has to pay.

                           

                          Tuition is too high. I work at Oregon State University, and believe me I know. Some of these kids will have $60k and up in debt from tuition and fees when they get their degree, and many won’t have a job for awhile.

                           

                          What do you think is the fix, Geo? For that matter, what does everyone else think? My personal opinion is that state taxes are spent for projects that should not be government funded, and that they OUGHT to spend more funding higher education. It seems to always be a crap shoot to see what the state will provide every year, at least as far as I can tell from reading press releases from the university. There is no mandatory funding level for state universities.

                           

                          Regards, Jim

                           

                          From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:43 AM
                          To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                           

                          Well, isn't K-12 free? Why not make K-14 at least also free? But only on the merit system. In otherwords, you must learn

                          something. Right now we have nearly 50% high school US dropout rate in all major cities.

                          Geo

                           

                           

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 2:10 PM

                          Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                           

                          I pay them. Students pay them. Taxes pay them. How can we provide “free” education if we don’t pay the teachers?

                          From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 11:57 AM
                          To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                          Jim, who pays the teachers now? Geo

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:38 PM

                          Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                          How can that work? Somebody has to pay the teachers.

                          From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geo>K0FF
                          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:40 AM
                          To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                          On the other side of the coin, many who desire to learn are held back by cost. Only when education is free, including

                          educational materials on the internet, can the US begin catch up with more progressive countries.

                          Science really can't be taught, it must be learned.

                          Geo

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:20 AM

                          Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                          On Apr 1, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Troglodite@... wrote:



                          But I encourage you in all your experiments, this is how we learn. I often learn more from the experiments that don't work than I do from the ones that do. :-) When you theorize what should happen and it doesn't, then you usually have to devise other experiments to find out why.

                          Although this attitude is highly recommended, especially for the neophyte in order to develop good mental habits, it contains a much more profound dilemma concerning the finiteness of life and the incompleteness of understanding:  As one ages it becomes more and more apparent that the level at which one can "tinker" a problem is very dependent upon what others have learned in the past.  Ever since Edison "invented" the large scientific laboratory fundamental discoveries of how the universe seems to operate are more and more dependent upon spending an apprenticeship to learn multiple ways of observing nature.  This apprenticeship is neither short nor effortless and is often eschewed by impatient youths.  Indeed, pupils in many secondary schools in the USA , especially boys, would rather become sports heros or rock stars than scientists.  At the college level many of my science and engineering friends notice the yearly decline of applications from domestic students and the growth of foreign applications.  Just today the University of Massachusetts has announced that in order to have sufficient students they will start online programs for students in China.

                          When I offered to assist anyone in a local, up-scale town's Boy Scout Troop if anyone wanted to pursue the Atomic Energy Merit Badge, I was refused with the admonishment that concerned parents in that town would never approve of their children being involved with learning anything about terrorist materials.  Imagine, from parents almost all who have graduated from college!

                        • Jim Darrough
                          Drugs are not the problem, in my humble opinion. I think it has to do with a I want it now economy. Look at the housing crisis! What the heck is wrong with
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                            Drugs are not the problem, in my humble opinion. I think it has to do with a “I want it now” economy. Look at the housing crisis! What the heck is wrong with people who will sign a loan that is set up to get them into a house they could NEVER afford, allowing them to pay minimal payments for five years, the ballooning to something ridiculous at the end of that period? People want less government controls, but it sure as heck didn’t work in the banking, savings and loan industry, did it? Look at advertisements. “No payments for 90 days”, “90 days same as cash”, SEVEN year car loans!

                             

                            . I have three great kids. Two are drug and alcohol free and one learned the hard way. My son is 20 and moved out on his own, and is now realizing that a college education really IS something that would help him. Since I work at a state university, my kids can use my staff discount to a certain extent, and save thousands of dollars. But even though I have drilled into their heads (the younger two) that they can go to college really cheaply and not have huge student loans, they still have to do it their way.

                             

                            Enough on the subject. I do NOT think drugs are the problem, but I agree they ARE a problem.

                             

                            Let’s elect a liberal Democrat to the Presidency and see what happens. Republicans had eight years to try.

                             

                            Regards, Jim Darrough (Republican, if it matters)

                             

                            From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:01 AM
                            To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                             

                             < Why not make K-14 at least also free? But only on the merit system. In otherwords, you must learn

                            something. Right now we have nearly 50% high school US dropout rate in all major cities. >

                             

                             

                            It's already free, more free isn't going to entice more to stay.  The allure of drug money or working at McDonalds for the rest of their lives is too much of  a draw.  America has pretty much become what the rest of the 1st world nations believe of us, a bunch of fat, lazy, rude people.  We are quickly on our way to becoming a wealthy third world nation.

                             

                            What we need to find is some sort of compelling reason to stay in school, something like compulsory military service.  Let's say that if you drop out of school, then the remainder of your schooling must be forfeit as unpaid military time.  Those that then want to stay on after their "graduation" can reup as enlisted and paid.  The huge upside is that those kids would also then be learning a real trade instead of drug running.

                             

                            Steve Jones

                          • Steve Jones
                            So let me understand this, you are an educator who knows
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                              <Enough on the subject. I do NOT think drugs are the problem, but I agree they ARE a problem. >
                               
                              So let me understand this, you are an educator who "knows" exactly what the problem(s) is and denigrate those of us that aren't and to order us to drop the subject after giving you your FINAL say?
                               
                              <SEVEN year car loans>
                               
                              I guess that you haven't noticed that most of these new cars cost as much as a house did 8-10 years ago.
                               
                              The problem is laziness and lack of responsibility.  Those issues are caused by all of the liberal BS from the 60s and 70s, free love, no corporal punishment on our youth, and all of that other crap.
                               
                              And you think that having democrats in office is going to make these issues go away?  Expect your taxes to rise so that we can feed people in Africa, that are too stupid to move where the food is, or give billions to France and Israel so that stay our "friends".
                               
                              And BTW, how about toning your font size down so that your emails don't take up my entire screen with a few words.
                               
                              Steve Jones
                            • DH
                              ... school, ... Ah, fascism on the internet. Your body is not the state s property, bub. Goes for slavery (conscription, service, etc), what you consume, etc.
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                                --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Jones" <steve@...> wrote:
                                > What we need to find is some sort of compelling reason to stay in
                                school,
                                > something like compulsory military service.

                                Ah, fascism on the internet.

                                Your body is not the state's property, bub. Goes for slavery
                                (conscription, service, etc), what you consume, etc.

                                Might be time to moderate this thread :-)

                                Vending unlicensed pharmaceuticals wouldn't be super ROI
                                if they were not illicit. Neither would folks die from
                                inconsistant or impure materials. Look up "prohibition"
                              • Steve Jones
                                That s amusing. Would you call the Swiss fascists? Steve Jones
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                                  < fascism on the internet.>


                                  That's amusing. Would you call the Swiss fascists?

                                  Steve Jones
                                • DH
                                  ... Why not? Walk like a duck, quack like a duck... If the state is more important than the individual, the state is evil. I d also say the Germans have no
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                                    --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Jones" <steve@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > < fascism on the internet.>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > That's amusing. Would you call the Swiss fascists?

                                    Why not? Walk like a duck, quack like a duck...

                                    If the state is more important than the individual,
                                    the state is evil.

                                    I'd also say the Germans have no freedom of speech and
                                    the Brits no second amendment. One could continue.

                                    Any questions?

                                    (Trying to keep OT...)

                                    There is anti-intellectualism in the US, and highly dysfunctional
                                    priorities (sports vs. engineering), and yes, half the advance
                                    degrees go to foreigners. Fortunately some stay here.
                                    But how to get American youth to be productive? Even
                                    taxpayer-funded (ie socialist (quite near fascist on the
                                    statism vs. individualism chart http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html))
                                    free tuition for STEM students that has been
                                    proposed won't get folks to work hard in college, if the
                                    Beemer awaits the day traders or mortgage vendors.

                                    In some sense, the previous generation is to blame for
                                    creating a reward-structure (environment) that rewards
                                    nonproductives more than productives.

                                    In other countries engineers are high status,
                                    as much as Drs and Lawyers here. Changing culture
                                    is difficult.
                                  • Jim Darrough
                                    I apologize if anyone else on the list felt my comments were denigrating . Also, I am very sorry Steve really thought I wanted a democrat in office. I was
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Apr 2, 2008
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                                      I apologize if anyone else on the list felt my comments were “denigrating”. Also, I am very sorry Steve really thought I wanted a democrat in office. I was trying to be sarcastic.

                                       

                                      For your information, I am NOT an educator. I am simply a staff member. I forget that people who do not work at universities and other institutions of learning do not know the difference between staff and faculty, so I took it for granted that everyone knew. My bad.

                                       

                                      The large font size is so I can read the screen. Sorry if it bothers anyone else.

                                       

                                      Regards, Jim Darrough

                                       

                                      From: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
                                      Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 10:13 AM
                                      To: CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [CDV700CLUB] ANN: New category at cosmicrays.org

                                       

                                      <Enough on the subject. I do NOT think drugs are the problem, but I agree they ARE a problem. >

                                       

                                      So let me understand this, you are an educator who "knows" exactly what the problem(s) is and denigrate those of us that aren't and to order us to drop the subject after giving you your FINAL say?

                                       

                                      <SEVEN year car loans>

                                       

                                      I guess that you haven't noticed that most of these new cars cost as much as a house did 8-10 years ago.

                                       

                                      The problem is laziness and lack of responsibility.  Those issues are caused by all of the liberal BS from the 60s and 70s, free love, no corporal punishment on our youth, and all of that other crap.

                                       

                                      And you think that having democrats in office is going to make these issues go away?  Expect your taxes to rise so that we can feed people in Africa, that are too stupid to move where the food is, or give billions to France and Israel so that stay our "friends".

                                       

                                      And BTW, how about toning your font size down so that your emails don't take up my entire screen with a few words.

                                       

                                      Steve Jones

                                      ,_._,___

                                    • Tom Herman
                                      I apologize if anyone else on the list felt my comments were denigrating . Also, I am very sorry Steve really thought I wanted a democrat in office. I was
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Apr 3, 2008
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                                        I apologize if anyone else on the list felt my comments were "denigrating". Also, I am very sorry Steve really thought I wanted a democrat in office. I was trying to be sarcastic.
                                         
                                        Hi Jim,
                                         
                                          I share your frustration. I see the way things are going, and I don't like it. Yes, education and this country is in big trouble, but we're still so MUCH better off than other places.
                                          No, a liberal democrat would be the death knell of our hobby, as well as almost everything else folks on this thread enjoy!
                                          The charismatic but empty headed junior senator from Illinois has already stated he doesn't believe firearms should be manufactured, nor should private citizens possess them. The senator from New York doesn't want us to have them, either.
                                          Can you imagine what would happen to those of us that enjoy science and work with chemicals?
                                          That would go the way of the dinosaur double time!
                                          Why, anyone that works with such things is automatically a terrorist!
                                          I don't know what the solutions are with the education issue. Some I suspect are cultural: Yes, we have become lazy for the most part.
                                          I would like to see the education system overhauled, and most of the administrative staff (councilors, etc) begging from the side of the road. Overhaul the curriculum, and actually teach the kids!
                                          No, we can't and shouldn't have Pleasantville, but we need to return to common sense, and look towards the future.
                                          Enough of my rant.
                                         
                                        -Tom
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