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Re: [CDV700CLUB] Re: $15 Russian Geiger Counters On Ebay?

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  • Richard Devlin
    I bought the 25$ one with 2 GM tubes. It is very sensitive, sound and LED only. I modified it by adding a mini phono jack and ear phone for outdoor use. NYC is
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 1, 2006
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      I bought the 25$ one with 2 GM tubes. It is very
      sensitive, sound and LED only. I modified it by adding
      a mini phono jack and ear phone for outdoor use. NYC
      is too noisy especially the subway where activity can
      be interesting. This unit was wrapped very well but
      took about 6 weeks to arrive, however well worth the
      price and the wait. I encouraged my friends and
      colleagues to buy it.

      --- "Karl W. Jacobson" <karljacobson@...> wrote:

      > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH"
      > <revtkatt@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "uravan238"
      > <mail2@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Has anyone out there bought one of those $15
      > dollar Russian geiger
      > > counters on Ebay? I
      > > > was curious if they actually worked and how long
      > it took before
      > the
      > > item actually arrived?
      > >
      > > Yes it works fine.
      > >
      > > Took forever to arrive. (Like, 2 months!)
      > >
      > > Arrived wrapped in brown paper looking like a
      > small
      > > american football.
      > >
      > > Enjoy the randomness.
      > >
      >
      > I got a PC5-88 in a couple weeks and it works on
      > a fiestaware bowl
      > ququite well. Really was surprised... It isn't loud
      > enough but the
      > flashing light is good. Karl
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • uravan238
      Thanks for the helpful info, guys! -Erik Message: 1 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:58:01 -0000 From: Karl W. Jacobson Subject: Re: $15
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 1, 2006
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        Thanks for the helpful info, guys!

        -Erik


        Message: 1
        Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:58:01 -0000
        From: "Karl W. Jacobson" <karljacobson@...>
        Subject: Re: $15 Russian Geiger Counters On Ebay?

        --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH" <revtkatt@...> wrote:

        --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "uravan238" <mail2@> wrote:

        Has anyone out there bought one of those $15 dollar Russian geiger
        counters on Ebay? I
        was curious if they actually worked and how long it took before
        the
        item actually arrived?

        Yes it works fine.

        Took forever to arrive. (Like, 2 months!)

        Arrived wrapped in brown paper looking like a small
        american football.

        Enjoy the randomness.


        I got a PC5-88 in a couple weeks and it works on a fiestaware bowl
        ququite well. Really was surprised... It isn't loud enough but the
        flashing light is good. Karl
      • Dave
        Seems Canada Customs is not allowing them into the country here... Could be one of two reasons: Their not telling us something or the have no French
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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          Seems Canada Customs is not allowing them into the country here...

          Could be one of two reasons: Their not telling us something or the
          have no French instruction sheet (don't laugh)

          Cheers Dave

          --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "uravan238" <mail2@...> wrote:
          >
          > Has anyone out there bought one of those $15 dollar Russian geiger
          counters on Ebay? I
          > was curious if they actually worked and how long it took before
          the item actually arrived?
          >
          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
          > ViewItem&item=7602565803&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%
          2Fsearch%2Fse
          > arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D7602565803%26fvi%3D1
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > -Erik
          >
        • Chris Smolinski
          Weird. I ship my GM-10 and GM-45 detectors to Canada, never had one sent back, and they don t have a French instruction sheet ;-) ... -- ... Chris Smolinski
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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            Weird. I ship my GM-10 and GM-45 detectors to Canada, never had one
            sent back, and they don't have a French instruction sheet ;-)


            >Seems Canada Customs is not allowing them into the country here...
            >
            >Could be one of two reasons: Their not telling us something or the
            >have no French instruction sheet (don't laugh)
            >
            >Cheers Dave
            >

            --

            ---
            Chris Smolinski
            Black Cat Systems
            http://www.blackcatsystems.com
          • DH
            ... bowl ... the ... If you want loud, look up the classic Quartex (my out of production $50 russkie) in these files. Basically you had to modify it by
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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              --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Karl W. Jacobson"
              <karljacobson@...> wrote:
              > I got a PC5-88 in a couple weeks and it works on a fiestaware
              bowl
              > ququite well. Really was surprised... It isn't loud enough but
              the
              > flashing light is good. Karl

              If you want loud, look up the classic Quartex (my out of
              production $50 russkie) in these files. Basically you
              had to modify it by reducing the super loud chirp,
              if you wanted to take it anywhere.

              I had posted pix
              of how to go out to a mini-connector and others had
              modified the circuit board, which requires better fine-
              soldering than I wished to risk.

              The Q was made in plastic of a color that would be
              best suited for infant toys, bright blue, although the
              design was very clever, slide open the cover to view the
              LED display and you turned it on (via magnet & reed relay).

              It was sold in a box covered in vegetables.
            • DH
              ... I have this crazy idea that the nuke industry should give bushels of these to schools and folks who want them. This would let anyone who played with it
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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                --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Richard Devlin <quarterwave1@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I bought the 25$ one with 2 GM tubes. It is very
                > sensitive, ... I encouraged my friends and
                > colleagues to buy it.
                >

                I have this crazy idea that the nuke industry should give
                bushels of these to schools and folks who want them. This
                would let anyone who played with it for an hour to 'get'
                background radiation. If you gave them a fiestaware
                plate (the russkie detectors have no check source)
                too they could learn about much more, *and* learn about
                the enormous range of magitudes that exist in the world.
                The PR would be worth its weight in lobbyists and politicos.

                "from Norm Alara with love" with a Reddy-Kilowatt logo..
              • Chris Smolinski
                ... That s a brilliant idea. I ll be happy to mfg them ;-) -- ... Chris Smolinski Black Cat Systems http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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                  >I have this crazy idea that the nuke industry should give
                  >bushels of these to schools and folks who want them. This
                  >would let anyone who played with it for an hour to 'get'
                  >background radiation. If you gave them a fiestaware
                  >plate (the russkie detectors have no check source)
                  >too they could learn about much more, *and* learn about
                  >the enormous range of magitudes that exist in the world.
                  >The PR would be worth its weight in lobbyists and politicos.

                  That's a brilliant idea. I'll be happy to mfg them ;-)

                  --

                  ---
                  Chris Smolinski
                  Black Cat Systems
                  http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                • Aaron Muderick
                  It is a great idea but I guarantee you that the response would be to ban fiesta plates and vaseline glass inside the school building once the parent s discover
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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                    It is a great idea but I guarantee you that the response would be to ban fiesta plates and vaseline glass inside the school building once the parent's discover they are 'radioactive'.  Remember, this is a generation of students that watches chemistry lab on a DVD in class rather than taking on the risk of a baking soda and vinegar volcano.

                    Best,
                    Aaron

                    Chris Smolinski wrote:
                    >I have this crazy idea that the nuke industry should give
                    >bushels of these to schools and folks who want them.  This
                    >would let anyone who played with it for an hour to 'get'
                    >background radiation.  If you gave them a fiestaware
                    >plate (the russkie detectors have no check source)
                    >too they could learn about much more, *and* learn about
                    >the enormous range of magitudes that exist in the world.
                    >The PR would be worth its weight in lobbyists and politicos.

                    That's a brilliant idea.  I'll be happy to mfg them ;-)

                    --

                    ---
                    Chris Smolinski
                    Black Cat Systems
                    http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                  • Phil Bigelow
                    ... An excellent idea! Education is empowering. Unfortunately, our society is currently in the midst of a dumbing it down is good fad. We are expected to
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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                      On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 16:34:48 -0000 "DH" <revtkatt@...> writes:

                      > I have this crazy idea that the nuke industry should give
                      > bushels of these to schools and folks who want them. This
                      > would let anyone who played with it for an hour to 'get'
                      > background radiation.


                      An excellent idea! Education is empowering. Unfortunately, our society
                      is currently in the midst of a "dumbing it down is good" fad. We are
                      expected to trust our government without asking any questions (after all,
                      the ability to ask questions is a characteristic of an educated citizen,
                      and as we know, all educated citizens support the Evil Doers).

                      And I suspect that the nuke industry is so paranoid about their image
                      these days that they wouldn't risk handing out measurement instruments to
                      the American public. The nuke industry doesn't trust the public any more
                      than the public trusts the nuke industry. This mistrust is mainly
                      baseless, but the nukers seem to fear *any* bad publicity, no matter how
                      minor it is.

                      Still, the idea of industry (or even govt.) handing out cheap personal
                      Geiger counters to the public is a damn good idea. A program like what
                      you suggest would work in Asia, where science is considered cool. But in
                      the U.S., science is considered to be the sole realm of geeks and weirdos
                      (aka "the uncool"). When it comes to science and technology, we
                      Americans are supposed to be led by govt. bureaucrats and by corporate
                      spin. We are discouraged from leading ourselves.

                      Want proof? Take a look at the asinine Dept. of Homeland Insecurity's
                      color-coded Level of Fear(TM) chart. "The chart is so simple, even a
                      5-year old will become afraid."

                      <pb>
                      --
                    • Dave
                      I ve asked the seller to provide me the reason their not being allowed in.... I ll post on receipt.... Maybe the equipment I have now is contraband? ;-) Geo,
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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                        I've asked the seller to provide me the reason their not being
                        allowed in....
                        I'll post on receipt....
                        Maybe the equipment I have now is contraband? ;-)
                        Geo, that will make you to an accessory after the fact...!
                        I know I have better equipment than the local first responders...
                        Cheers Dave

                        --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Chris Smolinski <csmolinski@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Weird. I ship my GM-10 and GM-45 detectors to Canada, never had
                        one
                        > sent back, and they don't have a French instruction sheet ;-)
                        >
                        >
                        > >Seems Canada Customs is not allowing them into the country here...
                        > >
                        > >Could be one of two reasons: Their not telling us something or the
                        > >have no French instruction sheet (don't laugh)
                        > >
                        > >Cheers Dave
                        > >
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > ---
                        > Chris Smolinski
                        > Black Cat Systems
                        > http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                        >
                      • Dave
                        The email I just received from the vendor and comments appreciated in regards to my response to the vendor: Hello Dave! Yes, they wrote: not admitted to Canada
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 2, 2006
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                          The email I just received from the vendor and comments appreciated
                          in regards to my response to the vendor:

                          Hello Dave!
                          Yes, they wrote: not admitted to Canada and
                          no sender name in French or English.
                          By the way, I wrote my address in English.
                          Can you help me to resolve this problem?
                          Best regards,
                          Pavel

                          My response:

                          Hi Pavel, I receive similiar material from the U.S. & the U.K. and
                          haven't seen this problem to date.
                          Are you using the word "radioactive" or "radiation" on your custom
                          forms?
                          Are you suppling batteries which seems to be a problem now for
                          shipping in North America. (sometimes)
                          I'll check to see what other avenues I have open to me to
                          investigate.

                          -------------------------------
                          --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dx375@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I've asked the seller to provide me the reason their not being
                          > allowed in....
                          > I'll post on receipt....
                          > Maybe the equipment I have now is contraband? ;-)
                          > Geo, that will make you to an accessory after the fact...!
                          > I know I have better equipment than the local first responders...
                          > Cheers Dave
                          >
                          > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Chris Smolinski <csmolinski@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Weird. I ship my GM-10 and GM-45 detectors to Canada, never had
                          > one
                          > > sent back, and they don't have a French instruction sheet ;-)
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > >Seems Canada Customs is not allowing them into the country
                          here...
                          > > >
                          > > >Could be one of two reasons: Their not telling us something or
                          the
                          > > >have no French instruction sheet (don't laugh)
                          > > >
                          > > >Cheers Dave
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > >
                          > > ---
                          > > Chris Smolinski
                          > > Black Cat Systems
                          > > http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                          > >
                          >
                        • Ron Schwarz
                          Yup, *that* Bussard. http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/mail458.html#Bussard There are several comments/links on that page, scroll through it (do on-page
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                            Yup, *that* Bussard.

                            http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/mail458.html#Bussard

                            There are several comments/links on that page, scroll through it
                            (do on-page search for "Bussard" to catch them all).

                            My cynical take on it is that they cut him off because working
                            fusion power (let alone with 95% efficient *direct* generation
                            of electricity) would be too much of a "disruptive technology",
                            it would put too many *deeply* vested interests into a world
                            of financial hurt. (The problem, of course, is that there's
                            no "smooth transition" *to* a technology that turns everything
                            on its head.)

                            But, it's interesting to note what he's done.

                            Next step?

                            Oh, probably China finishing the job and then rubbing our
                            noses in it.

                            Net result would be all the "disruptive effects", plus,
                            once again, "Advantage, China."


                            --
                            Photos: http://www.michi-kogaku.com/picsdir

                            Domain for sale: http://www.killtrees.com

                            Suggestion: Watch Cabaret!
                          • Chris Smolinski
                            ... I ve never bought into the 100 mpg cars exist but the oil companies have all the patents locked away stories. Oil (as well as coal, etc) companies today
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                              >Yup, *that* Bussard.
                              >
                              ><http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/mail458.html#Bussard>http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/mail458.html#Bussard
                              >
                              >There are several comments/links on that page, scroll through it
                              >(do on-page search for "Bussard" to catch them all).
                              >
                              >My cynical take on it is that they cut him off because working
                              >fusion power (let alone with 95% efficient *direct* generation
                              >of electricity) would be too much of a "disruptive technology",
                              >it would put too many *deeply* vested interests into a world
                              >of financial hurt. (The problem, of course, is that there's
                              >no "smooth transition" *to* a technology that turns everything
                              >on its head.)

                              I've never bought into the "100 mpg cars exist but the oil companies
                              have all the patents locked away" stories.

                              Oil (as well as coal, etc) companies today understand what they are.
                              Energy companies. They don't care where their revenue stream comes
                              from. Yes, a shift to technology like this would be disruptive, but
                              between hurricanes and terrorists, there's a lot of disruptions in
                              the oil business anyway. If this proves to be real, they'll be on it
                              in nanoseconds.

                              "Per his presentation, their final tests - which wrecked the test
                              gear - did Boron-11/H fusion in a lab bench environment, including
                              generation of the three Helium atons[sic] as the waste product. The
                              gear was carted up and put in storage with another firm in New Jersey
                              becuase[sic] they had to shut down the lab due to lack of funding."

                              Ahh yes. We're *this* close. Just send us some more money, really,
                              we've got it all figured out this time.

                              I wish him the best of luck, and hope his technology proves to be
                              functional. I'd love nothing more than to be able to return the
                              sultans of the middle east, as well as Chavez, and the rest of the
                              petroleum thugs back into the nobodies of the world that they once
                              were. But I'm not holding my breath.

                              --

                              ---
                              Chris Smolinski
                              Black Cat Systems
                              http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                            • jimmy_a_71
                              ... Just because Bussard had done some significant things is hardly proof that he isn t a crackpot. Top tier scientists have a long history of turning into
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                                --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Ron Schwarz <rs@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Bussard is not some crackpot "garage-tinkerer" crank.
                                >
                                > NASA is working on a design for an insterstellar ship using
                                > HIS engine, the "Bussard Ramjet".
                                >

                                Just because Bussard had done some significant things is hardly proof
                                that he isn't a crackpot. Top tier scientists have a long history of
                                turning into crackpots at some point in their careers. Tesla and Linus
                                Pauling spring to mind. (Pauling has two Nobel prizes, including one
                                for chemistry. Late is his career he was clearly sliding into the
                                "crackpot garage-tinkerer crank" mode, albeit with a multimillion
                                dollar "garage" to tinker in.)
                              • Ron Schwarz
                                Bussard is not some crackpot garage-tinkerer crank. NASA is working on a design for an insterstellar ship using HIS engine, the Bussard Ramjet . I find it
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                                  Bussard is not some crackpot "garage-tinkerer" crank.

                                  NASA is working on a design for an insterstellar ship using
                                  HIS engine, the "Bussard Ramjet".

                                  I find it very curious that they pulled the plug on him just
                                  as he was at the decisive moment -- and then began a campain
                                  of demeaning and dismissing him via snide personal attacks
                                  on his credibility.

                                  Suddenly, the guy behind NASA's interstellar ship is a backyard
                                  crackpot.

                                  Uh, yup. Suuuuuure.




                                  07:54 AM 3/27/2007 -0400, Chris Smolinski wrote:

                                  >>Yup, *that* Bussard.
                                  >>
                                  >><http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/mail458.html#Bussard>http://www.jerry
                                  pournelle.com/mail/mail458.html#Bussard
                                  >>
                                  >>There are several comments/links on that page, scroll through it
                                  >>(do on-page search for "Bussard" to catch them all).
                                  >>
                                  >>My cynical take on it is that they cut him off because working
                                  >>fusion power (let alone with 95% efficient *direct* generation
                                  >>of electricity) would be too much of a "disruptive technology",
                                  >>it would put too many *deeply* vested interests into a world
                                  >>of financial hurt. (The problem, of course, is that there's
                                  >>no "smooth transition" *to* a technology that turns everything
                                  >>on its head.)
                                  >
                                  >I've never bought into the "100 mpg cars exist but the oil companies
                                  >have all the patents locked away" stories.
                                  >
                                  >Oil (as well as coal, etc) companies today understand what they are.
                                  >Energy companies. They don't care where their revenue stream comes
                                  >from. Yes, a shift to technology like this would be disruptive, but
                                  >between hurricanes and terrorists, there's a lot of disruptions in
                                  >the oil business anyway. If this proves to be real, they'll be on it
                                  >in nanoseconds.
                                  >
                                  >"Per his presentation, their final tests - which wrecked the test
                                  >gear - did Boron-11/H fusion in a lab bench environment, including
                                  >generation of the three Helium atons[sic] as the waste product. The
                                  >gear was carted up and put in storage with another firm in New Jersey
                                  >becuase[sic] they had to shut down the lab due to lack of funding."
                                  >
                                  >Ahh yes. We're *this* close. Just send us some more money, really,
                                  >we've got it all figured out this time.
                                  >
                                  >I wish him the best of luck, and hope his technology proves to be
                                  >functional. I'd love nothing more than to be able to return the
                                  >sultans of the middle east, as well as Chavez, and the rest of the
                                  >petroleum thugs back into the nobodies of the world that they once
                                  >were. But I'm not holding my breath.
                                  >
                                  >--
                                  >
                                  >---
                                  >Chris Smolinski
                                  >Black Cat Systems
                                  >http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  --
                                  Photos: http://www.michi-kogaku.com/picsdir

                                  Domain for sale: http://www.killtrees.com

                                  Suggestion: Watch Cabaret!
                                • Chris Smolinski
                                  ... Nor do I, nor do I recall having said he was a crackpot. There s another category (and I am not saying he is this either, frankly the facts are not in yet
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                                    >02:46 PM 3/27/2007 -0000, jimmy_a_71 wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>--- In
                                    >><mailto:CDV700CLUB%40yahoogroups.com>CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com,
                                    >>Ron Schwarz <rs@...> wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Bussard is not some crackpot "garage-tinkerer" crank.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> NASA is working on a design for an insterstellar ship using
                                    >>> HIS engine, the "Bussard Ramjet".
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>Just because Bussard had done some significant things is hardly proof
                                    >>that he isn't a crackpot. Top tier scientists have a long history of
                                    >>turning into crackpots at some point in their careers. Tesla and Linus
                                    >>Pauling spring to mind. (Pauling has two Nobel prizes, including one
                                    >>for chemistry. Late is his career he was clearly sliding into the
                                    >>"crackpot garage-tinkerer crank" mode, albeit with a multimillion
                                    >>dollar "garage" to tinker in.)
                                    >
                                    >I read his stuff.
                                    >
                                    >I am not a particle physicist -- but I am not an idiot. (At least that's
                                    >what my editors told me <g>)
                                    >
                                    >I do not believe he is a crackpot.
                                    >

                                    Nor do I, nor do I recall having said he was a crackpot. There's
                                    another category (and I am not saying he is this either, frankly the
                                    facts are not in yet to say much at all about what he is doing), that
                                    is the guy who is sincere and honest, and thinks he is on to
                                    something, but really isn't. Time will tell.

                                    You know what I would do, if I thought I had discovered the secret to
                                    controlled fusion (and wasn't interested in trying to make a zillion
                                    dollars off it)? I'd give away the secrets. Publish them far and
                                    wide. If it is real, and you disseminate the information, others will
                                    work on it. Regardless of what the evil Shadows do. Not even Karl
                                    Rove will be able to stop it ;-)

                                    --

                                    ---
                                    Chris Smolinski
                                    Black Cat Systems
                                    http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                                  • Ron Schwarz
                                    ... I read his stuff. I am not a particle physicist -- but I am not an idiot. (At least that s what my editors told me ) I do not believe he is a crackpot.
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                                      02:46 PM 3/27/2007 -0000, jimmy_a_71 wrote:

                                      >--- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Ron Schwarz <rs@...> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> Bussard is not some crackpot "garage-tinkerer" crank.
                                      >>
                                      >> NASA is working on a design for an insterstellar ship using
                                      >> HIS engine, the "Bussard Ramjet".
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >Just because Bussard had done some significant things is hardly proof
                                      >that he isn't a crackpot. Top tier scientists have a long history of
                                      >turning into crackpots at some point in their careers. Tesla and Linus
                                      >Pauling spring to mind. (Pauling has two Nobel prizes, including one
                                      >for chemistry. Late is his career he was clearly sliding into the
                                      >"crackpot garage-tinkerer crank" mode, albeit with a multimillion
                                      >dollar "garage" to tinker in.)

                                      I read his stuff.

                                      I am not a particle physicist -- but I am not an idiot. (At least that's
                                      what my editors told me <g>)

                                      I do not believe he is a crackpot.

                                      I do NOT make my decisions on the basis of the taunts and personal attacks
                                      against him coming from those I perceive as having an interest in having
                                      him fail.

                                      I believe he is on the level, and I believe he is onto *it*, bigtime.

                                      And if anyone *really* believes that "titans of industry" who would easily
                                      lose *trillions* of dollars in the aggregate, should he succeed, would NOT
                                      do *anything* to derail his work, then I've got a lovely bridge for sale,
                                      in an even lovelier location, prime tourist area, high traffic, excellent
                                      toll potential. Serious bidders only, YMMV, LS/MFT, etc.

                                      Let's just put it this way -- if *I* was sitting on a fortune -- "old
                                      money", "legacy industry", etc. -- and I was looking at the very real
                                      possibility of LOSING it all, should essentially free, clean, endless
                                      electricity become available... well, let's just say that I will stipulate
                                      that IF, somehow, I found myself in that position, I would have long since
                                      divorced myself from any semblance of a conscience, so, yes, I'd do
                                      whatever I could get away with doing, to *prevent* him from doing what
                                      *he's* doing.

                                      I would of course maintain a "clean-hands" posture. I'd have "my people"
                                      do the deed -- ridiculing him, disrupting any cogent discussions of his
                                      work... it possible, I'd hire the guy who came up with the idea of calling
                                      people "global-warming-*deniers" -- wow, what a work of art *that* bit of
                                      agitprop turned out to be -- I'd hire the best and brightest to tear this
                                      guy's reputation to hell and back (except for the "and back" part)...

                                      And *then* I'd have a *separate* team go to work, putting out
                                      "independent" PSA spots hailing the "hard working American workers working
                                      hard at their American jobs", i.e., running gas, coal, and nuke plants,
                                      oilpatch workers, etc. All these Good Decent Hard-working Americans who
                                      we should be PROUD to keep employed. (And, of course, "maybe *some* day
                                      we'll have that thar "fewjun powah", but, it will ALWAYS be "twenty years
                                      from now, if ever.")

                                      Yeah, that's what I'd do -- If I had it all, was in a position to *lose*
                                      it all, and had *already* lost my soul.

                                      Thankfully, though, I'm just an old schmuck of a wordsmitty out here in
                                      Jenni-land, watching the regional economy swirl the crap-o-mat. (Boy, if
                                      *any* venue could use something like Bussard's Super-Fusor, it's the
                                      PRoMichigan... Maybe *then* we could take down the "Last one out please
                                      turn off the lights!" billboard at the state line!)

                                      OBTW, think about it: One *major* bit of "non-crank"-sign is the fact that
                                      he's totally up-front about building on Farnsworth's work, rather than, in
                                      *standard* crank-fashion, doing a feces-load of handwaving,
                                      BS-Generator-speak, and "I invented it all by myself, yup I did!" talk.

                                      Cranks are by nature averse to the whole "credit where credit is due"
                                      thang.


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                                    • DH
                                      ... do, they could jump on it.¡± Triola shares the worry. ¡°I think it¡¯s a matter of engineering now, not physics any more. Once Bussard gets enough
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                                        >>My concern is China,¡± Gay said. ¡°If they have more vision than we
                                        do, they could jump on it.¡±
                                        Triola shares the worry. ¡°I think it¡¯s a matter of engineering now,
                                        not physics any more. Once Bussard gets enough publicity, one of our
                                        not-so-friendly allies, probably the Chinese, will go do it.¡± <<

                                        So what? Once someone shows it can be done, anyone can
                                        do it. The mean time to get nukebombs was what, 10 years?



                                        I'm sure China will license its patents fairly.

                                        ;-)
                                      • Ron Schwarz
                                        ... Isn t that essentially what he s doing? -- Photos: http://www.michi-kogaku.com/picsdir Domain for sale: http://www.killtrees.com Suggestion: Watch Cabaret!
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 27, 2007
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                                          12:58 PM 3/27/2007 -0400, Chris Smolinski wrote:

                                          >You know what I would do, if I thought I had discovered the secret to
                                          >controlled fusion (and wasn't interested in trying to make a zillion
                                          >dollars off it)? I'd give away the secrets. Publish them far and
                                          >wide. If it is real, and you disseminate the information, others will
                                          >work on it. Regardless of what the evil Shadows do. Not even Karl
                                          >Rove will be able to stop it ;-)

                                          Isn't that essentially what he's doing?


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