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Re: [CDV700CLUB] Re: A different source?

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  • Boomologist
    Hi, All very good things to try and I will do most of them tonight when we get back from shopping. I may not do 1,2 & 3 because they would constitute
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Hi,
      All very good things to try and I will do most of them tonight when we get back from shopping.
      I may not do 1,2 & 3  because they would constitute "processing",(ha,ha).
      Yes, there are places on all the wrappers that react to longwave Uv. The "Glow-in-the-dark" surfaces.
      Haven't noticed any candy residue inside them. I was pretty careful about cleaning them (gained 5 pounds. Love chocolate).

                           Thanks,
                                  Ron
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:56 PM
      Subject: Re: [CDV700CLUB] Re: A different source?


      Random musings:

      For maximum accuracy, take the following measurements with your GC output
      going into your computer's counter.

      1) Is there any way to separate the print (or design) from the wrapper
      and then measure the activity of each component? Would scraping with a
      razor blade work?  Which component carries the radioactivity?

      2) Have you tried burning the wrappers and measuring the activity of the
      ash?

      3) Take some of the wrappers that show activity and soak them in vinegar
      overnight, then dry them thoroughly and measure the activity again.  Is
      the activity of each wrapper lower than it was before the vinegar soak?

      4) What happens to the activity when a piece of thin plastic wrap is
      placed between the wrappers and your pancake probe?  What happens when a
      piece of aluminum foil is placed between the wrappers and your pancake
      probe?

      5) Of the total number of wrappers tested, what percentage of them show
      activity?  Of only the radioactive wrappers, can you note any differences
      in color, tint, or hue compared to the appearance of the non-radioactive
      wrappers?  Do all of the wrappers carry the same lot number or date of
      manufacture?

      6) Do the more radioactive wrappers glow under a UV lamp?  What about the
      non-radioactive wrappers?

      7) Do the more active wrappers show traces of candy residue on the inside
      surface?  And what is the activity of the candy, sans wrapper?

      <pb>
      --

      On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:36:39 -0800 "Boomologist"
      <Boomologist@...> writes:
      > Yes I did, that was my first thought. My hands made no difference and
      > these readings were taken in an area that has no specimens.
      >
      >                      Thanks,
      >                             Ron
      >
      >   Have you tried counting your own hands for 2 mins? Esp.
      > fingernails.Geo
      >


      --

      --- [Certified Virus free by ASISNA Mail Services. www.asisna.com ]
    • Geo
      Quoting Tonto*: Umm Dat good, Kemosabee. * Tonto means idiot in Spanish. Don t ya wonder what Kemosabee means in Indian-talk? Geo -- In
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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        Quoting Tonto*: Umm Dat good, Kemosabee.

        * Tonto means "idiot" in Spanish. Don't ya wonder what "Kemosabee"
        means in Indian-talk?

        Geo



        -- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Boomologist" <Boomologist@G...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Yes I did, that was my first thought. My hands made no difference
        and these readings were taken in an area that has no specimens.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Ron
        >
        > Have you tried counting your own hands for 2 mins? Esp.
        fingernails.Geo
        >
      • DH
        ... of the ... That s concentrating NORM, bad amascientist, no donut. ... when a ... pancake ... Got alphas? ... about the ... If you fuse the ash with roach
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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          --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Phil Bigelow <bigelowp@j...> wrote:

          > 2) Have you tried burning the wrappers and measuring the activity
          of the
          > ash?

          That's concentrating NORM, bad amascientist, no donut.

          > 4) What happens to the activity when a piece of thin plastic wrap is
          > placed between the wrappers and your pancake probe? What happens
          when a
          > piece of aluminum foil is placed between the wrappers and your
          pancake
          > probe?

          Got alphas?

          > 6) Do the more radioactive wrappers glow under a UV lamp? What
          about the
          > non-radioactive wrappers?

          If you fuse the ash with roach powder, and expose it
          to (eg longwave) UV, do you get vaseline glass?

          > 7) Do the more active wrappers show traces of candy residue on the
          inside
          > surface? And what is the activity of the candy, sans wrapper?

          Excellent question.
        • DH
          ... Ok, I ll admit I don t get it. What did you mean? Do fingernails concentrate stuff? Are toenails equally dangerous? :-)
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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            --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Geo" <GEOelectronics@n...> wrote:
            > > Have you tried counting your own hands for 2 mins? Esp.
            > fingernails.Geo

            Ok, I'll admit I don't get it. What did you mean?
            Do fingernails concentrate stuff?

            Are toenails equally dangerous? :-)
          • Geo
            Only if you pick up and/or handle samples with your toes. Geo
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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              Only if you pick up and/or handle samples with your toes. Geo
              --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH" <revtkatt@y...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Geo" <GEOelectronics@n...> wrote:
              > > > Have you tried counting your own hands for 2 mins? Esp.
              > > fingernails.Geo
              >
              > Ok, I'll admit I don't get it. What did you mean?
              > Do fingernails concentrate stuff?
              >
              > Are toenails equally dangerous? :-)
              >
            • Geo
              PS why do you think Rule #1 in the Plumber s Hanbook is: Don t bite your fingernails on the job . ?
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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                PS why do you think Rule #1 in the Plumber's Hanbook is: "Don't bite
                your fingernails on the job". ?

                --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH" <revtkatt@y...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Geo" <GEOelectronics@n...> wrote:
                > > > Have you tried counting your own hands for 2 mins? Esp.
                > > fingernails.Geo
                >
                > Ok, I'll admit I don't get it. What did you mean?
                > Do fingernails concentrate stuff?
                >
                > Are toenails equally dangerous? :-)
                >
              • Chris
                DH, I think Geo was referring to Boomologists mining activities. I would imagine Autunite dust can get everywhere, even if one is taking proper precautions,
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
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                  PS why do you think Rule #1 in the Plumber's Hanbook is: "Don't bite
                  your fingernails on the job". ?

                  --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH" <revtkatt@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Geo" <GEOelectronics@n...> wrote:
                  > > >   Have you tried counting your own hands for 2 mins? Esp.
                  > > fingernails.Geo
                  >
                  > Ok, I'll admit I don't get it.  What did you mean?
                  > Do fingernails concentrate stuff? 
                  >
                  > Are toenails equally dangerous?   :-)
                  >





                • Chuck Counselman
                  ... I have always imagined that Kemosabee was a slight mispronunciation of Quien sabe, which is Spanish for Who knows[?] . This interpretation makes
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
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                    At 5:02 PM +0000 12/1/05, Geo wrote:
                    >Quoting Tonto*: Umm Dat good, Kemosabee.
                    >* Tonto means "idiot" in Spanish. Don't ya wonder what "Kemosabee"
                    >means in Indian-talk?


                    I have always imagined that "Kemosabee" was a slight mispronunciation
                    of "Quien sabe," which is Spanish for "Who knows[?]". This
                    interpretation makes ironic sense because no one knew the identity of
                    the Lone Ranger.

                    -C.
                  • Tracy Albert
                    Taco Bell is the one that had me cracking up Gordita is spanish for little fat girl, So are you gonna go eat a gordita? Then there is Chi Chi s it s
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
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                      Taco Bell is the one that had me cracking up "Gordita" is spanish for little fat girl, So are you gonna go eat a gordita?
                       
                      Then there is Chi Chi's it's literally spanish slang for human female mamary glands!
                      When My wife first came to the United States I couldnt get her near the place, She was sure it was some kind of strip club.
                       
                      The things that are right under our nose?
                       
                      Tracy

                      Chuck Counselman <ccc@...> wrote:
                      At 5:02 PM +0000 12/1/05, Geo wrote:
                      >Quoting Tonto*: Umm Dat good, Kemosabee.
                      >* Tonto means "idiot" in Spanish. Don't ya wonder what "Kemosabee"
                      >means in Indian-talk?


                      I have always imagined that "Kemosabee" was a slight mispronunciation
                      of "Quien sabe," which is Spanish for "Who knows[?]".  This
                      interpretation makes ironic sense because no one knew the identity of
                      the Lone Ranger.

                      -C.




                      Tracy Albert, Saginaw, Michigan.USA
                      KC8YVE
                      http://albert-cordova.com

                      A human being should be able to change a diaper, Plan an invasion, Butcher a hog, Con a ship, Design a building, Write a sonnet, Balance accounts, Build a wall, Set a bone, Comfort the dieing, Take orders, Give orders, Cooperate, Act Alone, Solve Equations, Analyze a new problem, Pitch manure, Program a computer, Cook a tasty Meal, Fight efficiently, Die Gallantly.
                      Specialization is for insects! Robert Heinlen.


                      Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

                    • DH
                      ... imagine Autunite dust can get everywhere, even if one is taking proper precautions, especially under the fingernails. Of course, humans have a significant
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
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                        --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Chris <cav427@c...> wrote:
                        >
                        > DH,
                        >
                        > I think Geo was referring to Boomologists mining activities. I would
                        imagine Autunite dust can get everywhere, even if one is taking proper
                        precautions, especially under the fingernails. Of course, humans have
                        a significant amount of potassium, so K-40 may be more detectable in
                        the dense tissue of your fingernail.

                        Mining, yes, but I figured he wouldn't be gorging and
                        playing with rocks at the same time, just common
                        sense.

                        K is not detectable unless you have pure KCl; KNO3 doesn't
                        work in my humble experience, with GCs only.

                        I vote for clays in the wrapper.
                      • Boomologist
                        ... These wrappers are plastic of some type so I doubt if any clay is involved. No, I don t eat and play with specimens at the same time. Always wash hands and
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
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                          >>>I vote for clays in the wrapper.

                          These wrappers are plastic of some type so I doubt if any clay is involved.
                          No, I don't eat and play with specimens at the same time. Always wash hands and use a nail brush after handling specimens.

                                               Thanks,
                                                      Ron


                        • DH
                          ... involved. What do we know? Certain identifiable wrappers, and not the chocolate, are 2x background with a GC. Other distinguishable wrappers were the
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
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                            --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Boomologist" <Boomologist@G...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > >>>I vote for clays in the wrapper.
                            >
                            > These wrappers are plastic of some type so I doubt if any clay is
                            involved.

                            What do we know? Certain identifiable wrappers,
                            and not the chocolate, are 2x background with a GC.
                            Other distinguishable wrappers were the control.
                            Contamination including of the scientist is not anticipated.

                            Either something IN the wrapper (eg NORM in pigments, eg clays) or
                            something ON the wrapper (were they stored near a radon source?)
                            is active. If the latter, they must have plated
                            out a lot of daughters. Presumably the hot wrappers
                            were not stored separately from the control wrappers,
                            though they may have been during manufacturing, shipping,
                            and distribution.

                            You could discount the plated-on theory by testing other
                            things stored near the hot wrappers. Presumably you've
                            tested around your house to find hot spots (compared
                            to outside as a control) so you'd be aware of Rn
                            sources.

                            Knowing the source would help:
                            A gamma spectrum would also help. (So would HLs
                            but we don't have that kind of time) I don't
                            know if a crude mass-filter + GC "particle spectrum"
                            or a "distance and/or magnet + GC" particle-energy spectrum
                            would help given the low signal level and need for
                            some kind of calibration even against local standards.
                            (eg, young U or Th chems, KCl, Po, fresh radons, etc)
                            (Though this is possible and fun.)
                            Part of the sport of amateur science is not having high res mass
                            spectrometers or neutron-activation reactor-ports handy.

                            You could also try manipulations of the hot wrappers
                            --calcining them, dissolving them, mechanically scraping
                            them.

                            A letter to the candy company or to the local chem/rad chem
                            dept might be interesting. The former might get you bags
                            of samples for life if you just keep quiet :-)

                            It would be worthwhile to replicate this, though I try
                            to stay out of that grocery aisle. Oh well, I can use
                            them to leverage my kid.
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