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Nukes in space

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  • arclight762
    I m pretty sure that there are some good pictures of what nuclear explosions in space look like, considering that we detonated a number of Hydrogen bombs there
    Message 1 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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      I'm pretty sure that there are some good pictures of what nuclear explosions in space look
      like, considering that we detonated a number of Hydrogen bombs there in the late 1950s
      and early 1960s. Check out this link for a documentary film about the "Rainbow" series of
      tests:

      http://www.vce.com/balloonetc.html

      John
      KF6DPJ

      --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "drbaustint" <drbjeep@h...> wrote:
      > Ok, now I've noticed the "sound" of explosions in space are technically inaccurate. What
      >I have wondered is, what would the ion cloud of an explosion in space really look like? Is
      >there any case where the nuculer :) explosion in space would propogate laterally as is so
      >often depicted? If so, why is it always horizontally oriented?
      > Curious
      > David
    • John Boyle
      For a couple pictures of the Starfish Prime 1.4 Mt detonation at 400 km, see http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/starfish.html In near space it looks
      Message 2 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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        For a couple pictures of the Starfish Prime 1.4 Mt detonation at 400 km, see
        http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/starfish.html
        In "near space" it looks spherical, and I'd assume the same for "deep" or
        "hard"
        space because there is still uniform matter (as sparse hydrogen) out there
        for the
        radiations to interact with.

        John



        > I'm pretty sure that there are some good pictures of what nuclear
        explosions in space look
        > like, considering that we detonated a number of Hydrogen bombs there in
        the late 1950s
        > and early 1960s. Check out this link for a documentary film about the
        "Rainbow" series of
        > tests:
        >
        > http://www.vce.com/balloonetc.html
        >
        > John
        > KF6DPJ
        >
        > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "drbaustint" <drbjeep@h...> wrote:
        > > Ok, now I've noticed the "sound" of explosions in space are technically
        inaccurate. What
        > >I have wondered is, what would the ion cloud of an explosion in space
        really look like? Is
        > >there any case where the nuculer :) explosion in space would propogate
        laterally as is so
        > >often depicted? If so, why is it always horizontally oriented?
        > > Curious
        > > David
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • civildefenseinfo2002
        Seems there s a little confusion here. The AEC created the film, showing how their personnel responded and did exposure control and PPE. If you saw it, you d
        Message 3 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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          Seems there's a little confusion here.

          The AEC created the film, showing how their personnel responded and
          did exposure control and PPE. If you saw it, you'd see the film
          itself is very accurate. The History Channel took this video, which
          didn't have any sound (or they removed it) and decided to add
          the "geiger counter clicking sound." What IS funny is that someone at
          the History Channel thought it appropriate and correct to add a GM
          counter low background reading sound to the Radector's visual reading
          in the tape.

          CivilDefense2002
        • bigelowp@juno.com
          The Project Argus atomic blasts were all radially symmeterical in form. I haven t been able to figure out why Riddly Scott made the nuke blasts go horizontally
          Message 4 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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            The Project Argus atomic blasts were all radially symmeterical in form.

            I haven't been able to figure out why Riddly Scott made the nuke blasts go horizontally in "Alien".

            cheers,

            <pb>
            --

            -- "drbaustint" <drbjeep@...> wrote:
            Ok, now I've noticed the "sound" of explosions in space are technically inaccurate. What I have wondered is, what would the ion cloud of an explosion in space really look like? Is there any case where the nuculer :) explosion in space would propogate laterally as is so often depicted? If so, why is it always horizontally oriented?
            Curious
            David

            --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH" <revtkatt@y...> wrote:
            > > Seems acceptable to me.
            >
            > The sounds of explosions in space are fine ear-candy
            > (for instance) but some folks enjoy noticing this kind of Hollywood
            > misscience.
            >
            > Its not a criminal offense but in the worsts instances caring folks
            > write letters trying to correct the script writers. I don't want to
            > see humans riding dinosaurs or George Washington firing
            > a cartridge in "documentaries"; in fiction
            > I don't care.
            :)

            >
            > And it does matter, because it shapes the populace's
            > perception of radioactivity, from eBay to principals
            > to senators.
            >
            > In this group, catching details is a bit of a sport
            > IMHO. Some of y'all are like pro birders who can identify
            > obscure birds from a glance at a hundred meters, or tell if the
            > birdsong in a movie doesn't come from the species found there.
            > Your shelves are filled with trophies, working and display.
            > You argue the merit of the yellow-breasted Victoreen
            > vs. the canary-tipped Lionel.
            >
            > I enjoy reading this group's tech-nitpicking and I hope most people
            > don't mind my commentary on relevent pop culture here.
            > I've learned things from the resulting discussions (and
            > arguments), from the pissing contests over what kind of tape
            > to seal your gloves with to the reality of the giant chrome
            > GC used to check pizzas at the door by the man in the
            > butterfly suit.




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          • Justin
            I have a vague feeling I ve seen a NASA photo that had the flat shockwave, I m thinking perhit might have been a nova in progress, where the star is orbited by
            Message 5 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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              I have a vague feeling I've seen a NASA photo that had the flat
              shockwave, I'm thinking perhit might have been a nova in progress,
              where the star is orbited by a flat disc of dust (like our sun -
              most of the planets and debris are roughly on the same plane), which
              makes the shockwave visible on that plane.
              I can see someone looking at that, and thinking "Ooohh - that ring
              really makes the explosions look big, I must put that in my
              movie!" :)

              One place I've definitely seen the effect is footage from the
              Vietnam war, planes carpet-bombing the jungle. Since the canopy is
              flat, elastic, and visible, you see the shockwaves propagate as
              though they were flat.

              I remember that I hadn't seen the effect in a movie space explosion
              until recently (last 10 years), and then suddenly it was in all the
              films. I remember being dissapointed to see it in the reworked star
              wars movie when they blew up the deathstar. I can't remember it
              being in Alien (which was made way back in the 70s, so would blow
              my "it's a recent fad" theory), but it's been too long to remember.

              --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, bigelowp@j... wrote:
              >
              > The Project Argus atomic blasts were all radially symmeterical in
              form.
              >
              > I haven't been able to figure out why Riddly Scott made the nuke
              blasts go horizontally in "Alien".
              >
              > cheers,
              >
              > <pb>
              > --
              >
              > -- "drbaustint" <drbjeep@h...> wrote:
              > Ok, now I've noticed the "sound" of explosions in space are
              technically inaccurate. What I have wondered is, what would the ion
              cloud of an explosion in space really look like? Is there any case
              where the nuculer :) explosion in space would propogate laterally
              as is so often depicted? If so, why is it always horizontally
              oriented?
              > Curious
            • bigelowp@juno.com
              IIRC, the opening sequence to the PBS science documentary show NOVA shows matter from a special effects supernova propogating laterally (or at least some parts
              Message 6 of 22 , May 2, 2004
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                IIRC, the opening sequence to the PBS science documentary show NOVA shows matter from a special effects supernova propogating laterally (or at least some parts of it doing so). In real life, supernovas DO explode asymmetrically (sometimes the pulsar gets "spit" out of the blast), but I have never seen a photo of one that has a circumstellar disc of ejecta.


                cheers,
                <pb>
                --


                -- "Justin" <archvillain@...> wrote:
                I have a vague feeling I've seen a NASA photo that had the flat
                shockwave, I'm thinking perhit might have been a nova in progress,
                where the star is orbited by a flat disc of dust (like our sun -
                most of the planets and debris are roughly on the same plane), which
                makes the shockwave visible on that plane.
                I can see someone looking at that, and thinking "Ooohh - that ring
                really makes the explosions look big, I must put that in my
                movie!" :)

                One place I've definitely seen the effect is footage from the
                Vietnam war, planes carpet-bombing the jungle. Since the canopy is
                flat, elastic, and visible, you see the shockwaves propagate as
                though they were flat.

                I remember that I hadn't seen the effect in a movie space explosion
                until recently (last 10 years), and then suddenly it was in all the
                films. I remember being dissapointed to see it in the reworked star
                wars movie when they blew up the deathstar. I can't remember it
                being in Alien (which was made way back in the 70s, so would blow
                my "it's a recent fad" theory), but it's been too long to remember.

                --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, bigelowp@j... wrote:
                >
                > The Project Argus atomic blasts were all radially symmeterical in
                form.
                >
                > I haven't been able to figure out why Riddly Scott made the nuke
                blasts go horizontally in "Alien".
                >
                > cheers,
                >
                > <pb>
                > --
                >
                > -- "drbaustint" <drbjeep@h...> wrote:
                > Ok, now I've noticed the "sound" of explosions in space are
                technically inaccurate. What I have wondered is, what would the ion
                cloud of an explosion in space really look like? Is there any case
                where the nuculer :) explosion in space would propogate laterally
                as is so often depicted? If so, why is it always horizontally
                oriented?
                > Curious





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              • Paul Goelz
                Hey guys, Just read in an old modern marvels book from 1955 about an atomic battery . Basically, it seemed to be similar to a photocell, except the source
                Message 7 of 22 , May 3, 2004
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                  Hey guys,

                  Just read in an old "modern marvels" book from 1955 about an "atomic
                  battery". Basically, it seemed to be similar to a photocell, except the
                  source of energy was a strontium90 source. It said that it didn't produce
                  much current but that it was "already used in guided missiles".

                  I assume the reason I have never heard of it before is that it was A) not
                  very efficient and B) dangerous?? In the book, they were touting it as the
                  future power source for hearing aids and wrist radios.

                  Paul



                  Paul Goelz
                  Rochester Hills, MI
                  paul@...
                  pgoelz@...
                  http://www.pgoelz.com
                • Craig
                  Paul, I remember the atomic battery from when it was mentioned in a what s new article in a hobbiest electronics magazine in the 50s. I remember it as a
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 3, 2004
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                    Paul,
                    I remember the "atomic battery" from when it was mentioned in
                    a "what's new" article in a hobbiest electronics magazine in the
                    50s. I remember it as a solar cell with a phosphor and a
                    radioactive source. I don't remember whether the surce was an alpha
                    or beta emitter. I do remember that the output current was in the
                    low microamp range. Not terribly useful, even in todays era of low
                    power cmos circuits, although I suppose it could keep a capacitor
                    charged over long periods of disuse. It vanished quickly from the
                    scene. RTGs are the only modern counterpoint I can think of.

                    Craig

                    --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Paul Goelz <pgoelz@e...> wrote:
                    > Hey guys,
                    >
                    > Just read in an old "modern marvels" book from 1955 about
                    an "atomic
                    > battery". Basically, it seemed to be similar to a photocell,
                    except the
                    > source of energy was a strontium90 source. It said that it didn't
                    produce
                    > much current but that it was "already used in guided missiles".
                    >
                    > I assume the reason I have never heard of it before is that it was
                    A) not
                    > very efficient and B) dangerous?? In the book, they were touting
                    it as the
                    > future power source for hearing aids and wrist radios.
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Paul Goelz
                    > Rochester Hills, MI
                    > paul@p...
                    > pgoelz@e...
                    > http://www.pgoelz.com
                  • Paul Goelz
                    ... In the book I have, it is shown as a germanium layer with a junction. The Sr90 irradiates the germanium, causing electrons to flow to the junction as in a
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 3, 2004
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                      At 10:03 AM 5/3/2004, you wrote:
                      > I remember the "atomic battery" from when it was mentioned in
                      >a "what's new" article in a hobbiest electronics magazine in the
                      >50s. I remember it as a solar cell with a phosphor and a
                      >radioactive source. I don't remember whether the surce was an alpha
                      >or beta emitter. I do remember that the output current was in the
                      >low microamp range. Not terribly useful, even in todays era of low
                      >power cmos circuits, although I suppose it could keep a capacitor
                      >charged over long periods of disuse. It vanished quickly from the
                      >scene. RTGs are the only modern counterpoint I can think of.
                      >
                      > Craig

                      In the book I have, it is shown as a germanium layer with a junction. The
                      Sr90 irradiates the germanium, causing electrons to flow to the junction as
                      in a photocell. But there is no phosphor mentioned.... the radiation does
                      the excitation directly.

                      Paul


                      Paul Goelz
                      Rochester Hills MI USA
                      pgoelz@...
                      http://www.pgoelz.com
                    • DH
                      ... atomic ... except the ... produce ... A) not ... it as the ... There are Pu powered pacemakers. There are thermo-electric generators ranging from things
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 4, 2004
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                        --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, Paul Goelz <pgoelz@e...> wrote:
                        > Hey guys,
                        >
                        > Just read in an old "modern marvels" book from 1955 about an
                        "atomic
                        > battery". Basically, it seemed to be similar to a photocell,
                        except
                        the
                        > source of energy was a strontium90 source. It said that it didn't
                        produce
                        > much current but that it was "already used in guided missiles".
                        >
                        > I assume the reason I have never heard of it before is that it was
                        A) not
                        > very efficient and B) dangerous?? In the book, they were touting
                        it
                        as the
                        > future power source for hearing aids and wrist radios.

                        There are Pu powered pacemakers.

                        There are thermo-electric generators ranging from things
                        that keep NASA probes warm and toasty to those beacon-powering
                        canisters that kill Siberian loggers...

                        I recently read about a MEMs device that used the charge
                        build up of a beta emitter to bend a cantiliver (discharging
                        it, thus repeating).

                        I've thought about using the million-volt betas and
                        doing a charge-caps-in-series-discharge-in-parallel
                        trick.

                        But if you can't own trasers, do you think you can own
                        an Sr-90 battery for your walkman?
                      • Justin
                        ... Oooh that piques my interest! (As another hobby, I used to make simple little solar-powered robots. One of which ran (very slowly) on a panel smaller than
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 4, 2004
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                          --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH" <revtkatt@y...> wrote:

                          > I've thought about using the million-volt betas and
                          > doing a charge-caps-in-series-discharge-in-parallel
                          > trick.

                          Oooh that piques my interest!
                          (As another hobby, I used to make simple little solar-powered
                          robots. One of which ran (very slowly) on a panel smaller than your
                          thumbnail. I can't see much energy being extracted from any legal
                          beta source, except perhaps a large chunk of yellowcake, but
                          problems aside, what you just described would make a nice power
                          source for a little micro-power toy :)
                          How feasible did you consider it to be? Pipe dream, or potential
                          experiment?
                          Did you have any ideas as to how to go about automatically switching
                          a back of caps from series to parralell? That strikes me as no small
                          feat. You could do it by (ab)using cmos chips as connectors, but
                          overall efficiency would suffer.
                        • DH
                          ... I didn t say I was going to run my car on it :-) Legal depends on who you are. A medical or space app can use more than us yahoos. ... I need a MEMs fab,
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 5, 2004
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                            --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <archvillain@e...> wrote:
                            > --- In CDV700CLUB@yahoogroups.com, "DH" <revtkatt@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > I've thought about using the million-volt betas and
                            > > doing a charge-caps-in-series-discharge-in-parallel
                            > > trick.
                            >
                            > Oooh that piques my interest!

                            >I can't see much energy being extracted from any legal
                            > beta source,

                            I didn't say I was going to run my car on it :-)

                            Legal depends on who you are. A medical or space app
                            can use more than us yahoos.

                            > How feasible did you consider it to be? Pipe dream, or potential
                            > experiment?

                            I need a MEMs fab, NRC license, a few hundred thou, and a grad student
                            or two.

                            > Did you have any ideas as to how to go about automatically switching
                            > a back of caps from series to parralell?

                            Mechanically. Maybe electrically.
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