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Re: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment

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  • Burt Brassard
    Good point Dave! In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league. I always considered the five second rule not in effect when there is a change
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 4, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Good point Dave!
       
      In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.  I always considered the five second rule not in effect when there is a change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass restarts the five second, because as you said the opponent can intercept, with their defensemen.  But some of my gang didn't think so, so I explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck behind our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot do anything about it!  So No 5 second rule from winger to winger, and even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right winger to left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the change of possession. 
      And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first touches the puck, to speed up play.  I know sometimes the puck rolls or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we can't add seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise if we open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use that as delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be strict about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a hard time with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and make a face-off.  This is table hockey, not chess! And things should roll quickly and smoothly!
       
      BURT
       
      P.S.  If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I would like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am a multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe sponsors. Nobody would be board for sure!
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
      Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment

      Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5 second play rule.
      Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the puck from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5 second rule.
       
      I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
      My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed through an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime by the opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous occassions and I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone gets on the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck possession rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8 seconds to make a play.
      Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should commence. Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or is it when the player has control of the puck to make the play? There have been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to settle the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
      Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week and I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second rule and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the five second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized because it can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second rule would be in effect on passing around the net.
      Your comments are welcomed
      Dave


      Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.

    • aj5380
      Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me, could learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from both of you. The tournament
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 5, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me, could
        learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from both
        of you.

        The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games right
        handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final games (A
        and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right center on
        the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter rod.
        They stood up to the test and delivered.

        I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind the net
        should not be considered delay of game since one (or two defensemen)
        can intercept the puck.

        Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ from
        Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second rule.
        I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
        playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right wing
        can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the winger
        is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the winger
        can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the winger to
        hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there, too
        bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the puck, it
        should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD play
        the puck. That's life!

        with regards

        ..aj5380
        --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@...> wrote:
        >
        > Good point Dave!
        >
        > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league. I
        always considered the five second rule not in effect when there is a
        change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass restarts
        the five second, because as you said the opponent can intercept,
        with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so I
        explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck behind
        our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot do
        anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger, and
        even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right winger to
        left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the change of
        possession.
        > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
        touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck rolls
        or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we can't add
        seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise if we
        open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use that as
        delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be strict
        about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a hard time
        with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and make a
        face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should roll
        quickly and smoothly!
        >
        > BURT
        >
        > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I would
        like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am a
        multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe sponsors.
        Nobody would be board for sure!
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Dave Kraehling
        > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
        > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
        >
        >
        >
        > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5 second
        play rule.
        > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the puck
        from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5 second
        rule.
        >
        > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
        winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
        > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed through
        an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime by the
        opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous occassions and
        I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone gets on
        the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck possession
        rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8 seconds
        to make a play.
        > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should commence.
        Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or is it
        when the player has control of the puck to make the play? There have
        been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to settle
        the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
        > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week and
        I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second rule
        and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the five
        second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
        seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized because it
        can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
        intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second rule
        would be in effect on passing around the net.
        > Your comments are welcomed
        > Dave
        >
        >
        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
        -----------
        > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go
        to Yahoo! Answers.
        >
      • sabre virginia
        I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply. aj5380 wrote: Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People,
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 5, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.

          aj5380 <aj5380@...> wrote:
          Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me, could
          learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from both
          of you.

          The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games right
          handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final games (A
          and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right center on
          the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter rod.
          They stood up to the test and delivered.

          I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind the net
          should not be considered delay of game since one (or two defensemen)
          can intercept the puck.

          Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ from
          Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second rule.
          I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
          playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right wing
          can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the winger
          is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the winger
          can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the winger to
          hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there, too
          bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the puck, it
          should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD play
          the puck. That's life!

          with regards

          ..aj5380
          --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > Good point Dave!
          >
          > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league. I
          always considered the five second rule not in effect when there is a
          change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass restarts
          the five second, because as you said the opponent can intercept,
          with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so I
          explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck behind
          our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot do
          anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger, and
          even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right winger to
          left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the change of
          possession.
          > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
          touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck rolls
          or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we can't add
          seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise if we
          open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use that as
          delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be strict
          about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a hard time
          with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and make a
          face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should roll
          quickly and smoothly!
          >
          > BURT
          >
          > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I would
          like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am a
          multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe sponsors.
          Nobody would be board for sure!
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Dave Kraehling
          > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
          > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
          >
          >
          >
          > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5 second
          play rule.
          > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the puck
          from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5 second
          rule.
          >
          > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
          winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
          > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed through
          an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime by the
          opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous occassions and
          I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone gets on
          the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck possession
          rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8 seconds
          to make a play.
          > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should commence.
          Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or is it
          when the player has control of the puck to make the play? There have
          been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to settle
          the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
          > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week and
          I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second rule
          and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the five
          second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
          seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized because it
          can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
          intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second rule
          would be in effect on passing around the net.
          > Your comments are welcomed
          > Dave
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
          -----------
          > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go
          to Yahoo! Answers.
          >



          Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
          Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

        • Dave Kraehling
          Very thoughtful Greg, But we must maintain consistency. I do feel for you.... Dave sabre virginia wrote: I think that during
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 5, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Very thoughtful Greg, But we must maintain consistency. I do feel for you....
            Dave

            sabre virginia <sabre_in_virginia@...> wrote:
            I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.

            aj5380 <aj5380@yahoo. com> wrote:
            Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me, could
            learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from both
            of you.

            The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games right
            handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final games (A
            and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right center on
            the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter rod.
            They stood up to the test and delivered.

            I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind the net
            should not be considered delay of game since one (or two defensemen)
            can intercept the puck.

            Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ from
            Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second rule.
            I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
            playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right wing
            can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the winger
            is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the winger
            can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the winger to
            hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there, too
            bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the puck, it
            should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD play
            the puck. That's life!

            with regards

            ..aj5380
            --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > Good point Dave!
            >
            > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league. I
            always considered the five second rule not in effect when there is a
            change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass restarts
            the five second, because as you said the opponent can intercept,
            with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so I
            explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck behind
            our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot do
            anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger, and
            even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right winger to
            left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the change of
            possession.
            > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
            touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck rolls
            or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we can't add
            seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise if we
            open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use that as
            delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be strict
            about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a hard time
            with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and make a
            face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should roll
            quickly and smoothly!
            >
            > BURT
            >
            > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I would
            like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am a
            multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe sponsors.
            Nobody would be board for sure!
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Dave Kraehling
            > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
            > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
            > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
            >
            >
            >
            > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5 second
            play rule.
            > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the puck
            from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5 second
            rule.
            >
            > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
            winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
            > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed through
            an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime by the
            opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous occassions and
            I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone gets on
            the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck possession
            rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8 seconds
            to make a play.
            > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should commence.
            Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or is it
            when the player has control of the puck to make the play? There have
            been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to settle
            the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
            > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week and
            I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second rule
            and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the five
            second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
            seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized because it
            can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
            intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second rule
            would be in effect on passing around the net.
            > Your comments are welcomed
            > Dave
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
            -----------
            > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go
            to Yahoo! Answers.
            >



            Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
            Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.


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          • Burt Brassard
            Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15 seconds to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if most players are fair and
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 6, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Why not?  Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15 seconds to make a play, and that would not be fair!  Believe me, even if most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one guy who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at all costs!  Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5 seconds to play the puck, overtime included.                      BURT
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
              Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment

              I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.

              aj5380 <aj5380@yahoo. com> wrote:

              Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me, could
              learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from both
              of you.

              The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games right
              handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final games (A
              and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right center on
              the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter rod.
              They stood up to the test and delivered.

              I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind the net
              should not be considered delay of game since one (or two defensemen)
              can intercept the puck.

              Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ from
              Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second rule.
              I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
              playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right wing
              can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the winger
              is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the winger
              can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the winger to
              hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there, too
              bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the puck, it
              should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD play
              the puck. That's life!

              with regards

              ..aj5380
              --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@.. .> wrote:
              >
              > Good point Dave!
              >
              > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league. I
              always considered the five second rule not in effect when there is a
              change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass restarts
              the five second, because as you said the opponent can intercept,
              with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so I
              explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck behind
              our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot do
              anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger, and
              even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right winger to
              left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the change of
              possession.
              > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
              touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck rolls
              or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we can't add
              seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise if we
              open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use that as
              delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be strict
              about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a hard time
              with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and make a
              face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should roll
              quickly and smoothly!
              >
              > BURT
              >
              > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I would
              like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am a
              multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe sponsors.
              Nobody would be board for sure!
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Dave Kraehling
              > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
              > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
              >
              >
              >
              > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5 second
              play rule.
              > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the puck
              from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5 second
              rule.
              >
              > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
              winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
              > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed through
              an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime by the
              opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous occassions and
              I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone gets on
              the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck possession
              rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8 seconds
              to make a play.
              > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should commence.
              Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or is it
              when the player has control of the puck to make the play? There have
              been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to settle
              the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
              > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week and
              I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second rule
              and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the five
              second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
              seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized because it
              can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
              intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second rule
              would be in effect on passing around the net.
              > Your comments are welcomed
              > Dave
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
              -----------
              > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go
              to Yahoo! Answers.
              >



              Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
              Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

            • Jim Rzonca
              5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more than enough time to make a play. Pick up da pace Jim Rzonca ... to make a play, and that would not
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 6, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more than
                enough time to make a play.

                Pick up da pace
                Jim Rzonca

                --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@...> wrote:
                >
                > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15 seconds
                to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if
                most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one guy
                who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at all
                costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5 seconds
                to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: sabre virginia
                > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                >
                >
                > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.
                >
                > aj5380 <aj5380@...> wrote:
                >
                > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me,
                could
                > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from
                both
                > of you.
                >
                > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                right
                > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                games (A
                > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                center on
                > the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter
                rod.
                > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                >
                > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                the net
                > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                defensemen)
                > can intercept the puck.
                >
                > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ
                from
                > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second
                rule.
                > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                wing
                > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the
                winger
                > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                winger
                > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                winger to
                > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                too
                > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                puck, it
                > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD
                play
                > the puck. That's life!
                >
                > with regards
                >
                > ..aj5380
                > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Good point Dave!
                > >
                > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.
                I
                > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                there is a
                > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                restarts
                > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                intercept,
                > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so
                I
                > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                behind
                > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                do
                > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger,
                and
                > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                winger to
                > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                change of
                > possession.
                > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
                > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck
                rolls
                > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                can't add
                > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                if we
                > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                that as
                > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                strict
                > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                hard time
                > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                make a
                > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                roll
                > quickly and smoothly!
                > >
                > > BURT
                > >
                > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                would
                > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am
                a
                > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                sponsors.
                > Nobody would be board for sure!
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: Dave Kraehling
                > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                second
                > play rule.
                > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                puck
                > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                second
                > rule.
                > >
                > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                through
                > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime
                by the
                > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                occassions and
                > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                gets on
                > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                possession
                > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                seconds
                > to make a play.
                > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                commence.
                > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or
                is it
                > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                There have
                > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                settle
                > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week
                and
                > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second
                rule
                > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                five
                > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                because it
                > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                rule
                > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                > > Your comments are welcomed
                > > Dave
                > >
                > >
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > -----------
                > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                people. Go
                > to Yahoo! Answers.
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                >
              • Dave Kraehling
                But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game is being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics. Jim Rzonca
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 6, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game is being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.

                  Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@...> wrote:

                  5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more than
                  enough time to make a play.

                  Pick up da pace
                  Jim Rzonca

                  --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15 seconds
                  to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if
                  most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one guy
                  who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at all
                  costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5 seconds
                  to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: sabre virginia
                  > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                  >
                  >
                  > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.
                  >
                  > aj5380 <aj5380@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me,
                  could
                  > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from
                  both
                  > of you.
                  >
                  > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                  right
                  > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                  games (A
                  > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                  center on
                  > the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter
                  rod.
                  > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                  >
                  > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                  the net
                  > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                  defensemen)
                  > can intercept the puck.
                  >
                  > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ
                  from
                  > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second
                  rule.
                  > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                  > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                  wing
                  > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the
                  winger
                  > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                  winger
                  > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                  winger to
                  > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                  too
                  > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                  puck, it
                  > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD
                  play
                  > the puck. That's life!
                  >
                  > with regards
                  >
                  > ..aj5380
                  > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Good point Dave!
                  > >
                  > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.
                  I
                  > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                  there is a
                  > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                  restarts
                  > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                  intercept,
                  > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so
                  I
                  > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                  behind
                  > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                  do
                  > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger,
                  and
                  > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                  winger to
                  > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                  change of
                  > possession.
                  > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
                  > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck
                  rolls
                  > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                  can't add
                  > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                  if we
                  > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                  that as
                  > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                  strict
                  > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                  hard time
                  > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                  make a
                  > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                  roll
                  > quickly and smoothly!
                  > >
                  > > BURT
                  > >
                  > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                  would
                  > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am
                  a
                  > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                  sponsors.
                  > Nobody would be board for sure!
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Dave Kraehling
                  > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                  > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                  > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                  second
                  > play rule.
                  > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                  puck
                  > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                  second
                  > rule.
                  > >
                  > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                  > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                  > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                  through
                  > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime
                  by the
                  > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                  occassions and
                  > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                  gets on
                  > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                  possession
                  > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                  seconds
                  > to make a play.
                  > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                  commence.
                  > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or
                  is it
                  > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                  There have
                  > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                  settle
                  > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                  > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week
                  and
                  > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second
                  rule
                  > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                  five
                  > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                  > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                  because it
                  > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                  > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                  rule
                  > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                  > > Your comments are welcomed
                  > > Dave
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                  > -----------
                  > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                  people. Go
                  > to Yahoo! Answers.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                  -----------
                  > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                  > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                  >



                  The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Yahoo! Mail.

                • Jim Rzonca
                  1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up. ... being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics. ... guy ... Yahoo! Mail.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 6, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.

                    --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game is
                    being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                    >
                    > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@...> wrote:
                    > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more than
                    > enough time to make a play.
                    >
                    > Pick up da pace
                    > Jim Rzonca
                    >
                    > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15 seconds
                    > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if
                    > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one
                    guy
                    > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at all
                    > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5 seconds
                    > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: sabre virginia
                    > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.
                    > >
                    > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me,
                    > could
                    > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from
                    > both
                    > > of you.
                    > >
                    > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                    > right
                    > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                    > games (A
                    > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                    > center on
                    > > the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter
                    > rod.
                    > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                    > >
                    > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                    > the net
                    > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                    > defensemen)
                    > > can intercept the puck.
                    > >
                    > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ
                    > from
                    > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second
                    > rule.
                    > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                    > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                    > wing
                    > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the
                    > winger
                    > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                    > winger
                    > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                    > winger to
                    > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                    > too
                    > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                    > puck, it
                    > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD
                    > play
                    > > the puck. That's life!
                    > >
                    > > with regards
                    > >
                    > > ..aj5380
                    > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Good point Dave!
                    > > >
                    > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.
                    > I
                    > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                    > there is a
                    > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                    > restarts
                    > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                    > intercept,
                    > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so
                    > I
                    > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                    > behind
                    > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                    > do
                    > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger,
                    > and
                    > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                    > winger to
                    > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                    > change of
                    > > possession.
                    > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
                    > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck
                    > rolls
                    > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                    > can't add
                    > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                    > if we
                    > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                    > that as
                    > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                    > strict
                    > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                    > hard time
                    > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                    > make a
                    > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                    > roll
                    > > quickly and smoothly!
                    > > >
                    > > > BURT
                    > > >
                    > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                    > would
                    > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am
                    > a
                    > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                    > sponsors.
                    > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                    > > >
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                    > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                    > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                    > second
                    > > play rule.
                    > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                    > puck
                    > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                    > second
                    > > rule.
                    > > >
                    > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                    > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                    > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                    > through
                    > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime
                    > by the
                    > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                    > occassions and
                    > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                    > gets on
                    > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                    > possession
                    > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                    > seconds
                    > > to make a play.
                    > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                    > commence.
                    > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or
                    > is it
                    > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                    > There have
                    > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                    > settle
                    > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                    > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week
                    > and
                    > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second
                    > rule
                    > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                    > five
                    > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                    > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                    > because it
                    > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                    > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                    > rule
                    > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                    > > > Your comments are welcomed
                    > > > Dave
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > > -----------
                    > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                    > people. Go
                    > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                    > -----------
                    > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                    > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new
                    Yahoo! Mail.
                    >
                  • Dave Kraehling
                    Hey Jim, where can I get some international stiga players for my game? Dave Jim Rzonca wrote: 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up. ... being
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 6, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hey Jim, where can I get some international stiga players for my game?
                      Dave

                      Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@...> wrote:
                      1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.

                      --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game is
                      being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                      >
                      > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@... > wrote:
                      > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more than
                      > enough time to make a play.
                      >
                      > Pick up da pace
                      > Jim Rzonca
                      >
                      > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15 seconds
                      > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if
                      > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one
                      guy
                      > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at all
                      > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5 seconds
                      > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: sabre virginia
                      > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                      > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.
                      > >
                      > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me,
                      > could
                      > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from
                      > both
                      > > of you.
                      > >
                      > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                      > right
                      > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                      > games (A
                      > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                      > center on
                      > > the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter
                      > rod.
                      > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                      > >
                      > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                      > the net
                      > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                      > defensemen)
                      > > can intercept the puck.
                      > >
                      > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ
                      > from
                      > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second
                      > rule.
                      > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                      > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                      > wing
                      > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the
                      > winger
                      > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                      > winger
                      > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                      > winger to
                      > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                      > too
                      > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                      > puck, it
                      > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD
                      > play
                      > > the puck. That's life!
                      > >
                      > > with regards
                      > >
                      > > ..aj5380
                      > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Good point Dave!
                      > > >
                      > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.
                      > I
                      > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                      > there is a
                      > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                      > restarts
                      > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                      > intercept,
                      > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so
                      > I
                      > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                      > behind
                      > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                      > do
                      > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger,
                      > and
                      > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                      > winger to
                      > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                      > change of
                      > > possession.
                      > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
                      > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck
                      > rolls
                      > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                      > can't add
                      > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                      > if we
                      > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                      > that as
                      > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                      > strict
                      > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                      > hard time
                      > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                      > make a
                      > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                      > roll
                      > > quickly and smoothly!
                      > > >
                      > > > BURT
                      > > >
                      > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                      > would
                      > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am
                      > a
                      > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                      > sponsors.
                      > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                      > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                      > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                      > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                      > second
                      > > play rule.
                      > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                      > puck
                      > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                      > second
                      > > rule.
                      > > >
                      > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                      > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                      > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                      > through
                      > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime
                      > by the
                      > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                      > occassions and
                      > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                      > gets on
                      > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                      > possession
                      > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                      > seconds
                      > > to make a play.
                      > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                      > commence.
                      > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or
                      > is it
                      > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                      > There have
                      > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                      > settle
                      > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                      > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week
                      > and
                      > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second
                      > rule
                      > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                      > five
                      > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                      > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                      > because it
                      > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                      > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                      > rule
                      > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                      > > > Your comments are welcomed
                      > > > Dave
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                      > > -----------
                      > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                      > people. Go
                      > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                      > -----------
                      > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                      > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                      > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new
                      Yahoo! Mail.
                      >



                      Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos

                    • Jim Rzonca
                      Gimme a buzz at 630 257-8171 I will be there tomorrow night. Jim Rzonca ... game? ... than ... seconds ... all ... seconds ... apply. ... new ... Photos
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 6, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Gimme a buzz at 630 257-8171 I will be there tomorrow night.


                        Jim Rzonca

                        --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey Jim, where can I get some international stiga players for my
                        game?
                        > Dave
                        >
                        > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@...> wrote:
                        > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                        >
                        > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game is
                        > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                        > >
                        > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                        > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more
                        than
                        > > enough time to make a play.
                        > >
                        > > Pick up da pace
                        > > Jim Rzonca
                        > >
                        > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                        seconds
                        > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if
                        > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one
                        > guy
                        > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                        all
                        > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                        seconds
                        > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: sabre virginia
                        > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                        > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not
                        apply.
                        > > >
                        > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me,
                        > > could
                        > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from
                        > > both
                        > > > of you.
                        > > >
                        > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                        > > right
                        > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                        > > games (A
                        > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                        > > center on
                        > > > the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter
                        > > rod.
                        > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                        > > >
                        > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                        > > the net
                        > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                        > > defensemen)
                        > > > can intercept the puck.
                        > > >
                        > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ
                        > > from
                        > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second
                        > > rule.
                        > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                        > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                        > > wing
                        > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the
                        > > winger
                        > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                        > > winger
                        > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                        > > winger to
                        > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                        > > too
                        > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                        > > puck, it
                        > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD
                        > > play
                        > > > the puck. That's life!
                        > > >
                        > > > with regards
                        > > >
                        > > > ..aj5380
                        > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Good point Dave!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.
                        > > I
                        > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                        > > there is a
                        > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                        > > restarts
                        > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                        > > intercept,
                        > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so
                        > > I
                        > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                        > > behind
                        > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                        > > do
                        > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger,
                        > > and
                        > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                        > > winger to
                        > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                        > > change of
                        > > > possession.
                        > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
                        > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck
                        > > rolls
                        > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                        > > can't add
                        > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                        > > if we
                        > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                        > > that as
                        > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                        > > strict
                        > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                        > > hard time
                        > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                        > > make a
                        > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                        > > roll
                        > > > quickly and smoothly!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > BURT
                        > > > >
                        > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                        > > would
                        > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am
                        > > a
                        > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                        > > sponsors.
                        > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                        > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                        > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                        > > second
                        > > > play rule.
                        > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                        > > puck
                        > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                        > > second
                        > > > rule.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                        > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                        > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                        > > through
                        > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime
                        > > by the
                        > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                        > > occassions and
                        > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                        > > gets on
                        > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                        > > possession
                        > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                        > > seconds
                        > > > to make a play.
                        > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                        > > commence.
                        > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or
                        > > is it
                        > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                        > > There have
                        > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                        > > settle
                        > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                        > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week
                        > > and
                        > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second
                        > > rule
                        > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                        > > five
                        > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                        > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                        > > because it
                        > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                        > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                        > > rule
                        > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                        > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                        > > > > Dave
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        > > > -----------
                        > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                        > > people. Go
                        > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        > > -----------
                        > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                        > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-
                        new
                        > Yahoo! Mail.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada
                        Photos
                        >
                      • Steve
                        has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4 seconds per possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked great. i think 5 sec is way to
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 7, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4 seconds per
                          possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                          great. i think 5 sec is way to long.

                          stein

                          --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                          >
                          > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game is
                          > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                          > >
                          > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                          > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more than
                          > > enough time to make a play.
                          > >
                          > > Pick up da pace
                          > > Jim Rzonca
                          > >
                          > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                          seconds
                          > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if
                          > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one
                          > guy
                          > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                          all
                          > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5 seconds
                          > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: sabre virginia
                          > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.
                          > > >
                          > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me,
                          > > could
                          > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from
                          > > both
                          > > > of you.
                          > > >
                          > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                          > > right
                          > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                          > > games (A
                          > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                          > > center on
                          > > > the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter
                          > > rod.
                          > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                          > > >
                          > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                          > > the net
                          > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                          > > defensemen)
                          > > > can intercept the puck.
                          > > >
                          > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ
                          > > from
                          > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second
                          > > rule.
                          > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                          > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                          > > wing
                          > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the
                          > > winger
                          > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                          > > winger
                          > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                          > > winger to
                          > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                          > > too
                          > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                          > > puck, it
                          > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD
                          > > play
                          > > > the puck. That's life!
                          > > >
                          > > > with regards
                          > > >
                          > > > ..aj5380
                          > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Good point Dave!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.
                          > > I
                          > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                          > > there is a
                          > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                          > > restarts
                          > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                          > > intercept,
                          > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so
                          > > I
                          > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                          > > behind
                          > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                          > > do
                          > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger,
                          > > and
                          > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                          > > winger to
                          > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                          > > change of
                          > > > possession.
                          > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
                          > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck
                          > > rolls
                          > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                          > > can't add
                          > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                          > > if we
                          > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                          > > that as
                          > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                          > > strict
                          > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                          > > hard time
                          > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                          > > make a
                          > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                          > > roll
                          > > > quickly and smoothly!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > BURT
                          > > > >
                          > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                          > > would
                          > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am
                          > > a
                          > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                          > > sponsors.
                          > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                          > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                          > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                          > > second
                          > > > play rule.
                          > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                          > > puck
                          > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                          > > second
                          > > > rule.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                          > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                          > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                          > > through
                          > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime
                          > > by the
                          > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                          > > occassions and
                          > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                          > > gets on
                          > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                          > > possession
                          > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                          > > seconds
                          > > > to make a play.
                          > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                          > > commence.
                          > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or
                          > > is it
                          > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                          > > There have
                          > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                          > > settle
                          > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                          > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week
                          > > and
                          > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second
                          > > rule
                          > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                          > > five
                          > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                          > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                          > > because it
                          > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                          > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                          > > rule
                          > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                          > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                          > > > > Dave
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > > > -----------
                          > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                          > > people. Go
                          > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > > -----------
                          > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                          > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-
                          new
                          > Yahoo! Mail.
                          > >
                          >
                        • carlo bossio
                          Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is Table Hockey, and finess is just as
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 7, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is Table Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good in my opinion.
                             
                            Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my league who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should them what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                             
                            I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net pass. When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score. Everytime. Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net and that is ridiculouse.
                             
                            Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way it is, less controversy. Peace.

                            Steve <mthl@...> wrote:
                            has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4 seconds per
                            possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                            great. i think 5 sec is way to long.

                            stein

                            --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@... > wrote:
                            >
                            > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                            >
                            > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@ > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game is
                            > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                            > >
                            > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                            > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more than
                            > > enough time to make a play.
                            > >
                            > > Pick up da pace
                            > > Jim Rzonca
                            > >
                            > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                            seconds
                            > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even if
                            > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least one
                            > guy
                            > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                            all
                            > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5 seconds
                            > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: sabre virginia
                            > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                            > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not apply.
                            > > >
                            > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including me,
                            > > could
                            > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch from
                            > > both
                            > > > of you.
                            > > >
                            > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                            > > right
                            > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                            > > games (A
                            > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                            > > center on
                            > > > the same board, with no interference using the AJSsupercenter
                            > > rod.
                            > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                            > > >
                            > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                            > > the net
                            > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                            > > defensemen)
                            > > > can intercept the puck.
                            > > >
                            > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I differ
                            > > from
                            > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8 second
                            > > rule.
                            > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                            > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                            > > wing
                            > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but the
                            > > winger
                            > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                            > > winger
                            > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                            > > winger to
                            > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                            > > too
                            > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                            > > puck, it
                            > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger COULD
                            > > play
                            > > > the puck. That's life!
                            > > >
                            > > > with regards
                            > > >
                            > > > ..aj5380
                            > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Good point Dave!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our league.
                            > > I
                            > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                            > > there is a
                            > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                            > > restarts
                            > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                            > > intercept,
                            > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so, so
                            > > I
                            > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                            > > behind
                            > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                            > > do
                            > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to winger,
                            > > and
                            > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                            > > winger to
                            > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                            > > change of
                            > > > possession.
                            > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player first
                            > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the puck
                            > > rolls
                            > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                            > > can't add
                            > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                            > > if we
                            > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                            > > that as
                            > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                            > > strict
                            > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                            > > hard time
                            > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                            > > make a
                            > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                            > > roll
                            > > > quickly and smoothly!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > BURT
                            > > > >
                            > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                            > > would
                            > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I am
                            > > a
                            > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                            > > sponsors.
                            > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                            > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                            > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                            > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                            > > second
                            > > > play rule.
                            > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                            > > puck
                            > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                            > > second
                            > > > rule.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                            > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                            > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                            > > through
                            > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at anytime
                            > > by the
                            > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                            > > occassions and
                            > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                            > > gets on
                            > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                            > > possession
                            > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                            > > seconds
                            > > > to make a play.
                            > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                            > > commence.
                            > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play or
                            > > is it
                            > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                            > > There have
                            > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                            > > settle
                            > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                            > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last week
                            > > and
                            > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five second
                            > > rule
                            > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                            > > five
                            > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                            > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                            > > because it
                            > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                            > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                            > > rule
                            > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                            > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                            > > > > Dave
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                            > > > -----------
                            > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                            > > people. Go
                            > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                            > > -----------
                            > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                            > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                            > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-
                            new
                            > Yahoo! Mail.
                            > >
                            >



                            Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice

                          • Jim Rzonca
                            Well if it ever got to 8 or 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five minuite game folks. Besides, 3
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 7, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Well if it ever got to 8 or 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather
                              be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five
                              minuite game folks. Besides, 3 or 4 does not give the newer player a
                              chance to learn or do anything on the game. In the end, Fast with
                              Finesse is where the moneys at.


                              Jim Rzonca

                              --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes
                              slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is Table
                              Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good in
                              my opinion.
                              >
                              > Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know
                              that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my league
                              who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should them
                              what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                              >
                              > I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net pass.
                              When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the
                              opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think
                              happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score. Everytime.
                              Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net and
                              that is ridiculouse.
                              >
                              > Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way it
                              is, less controversy. Peace.
                              >
                              > Steve <mthl@...> wrote:
                              > has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4
                              seconds per
                              > possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                              > great. i think 5 sec is way to long.
                              >
                              > stein
                              >
                              > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                              > >
                              > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@>
                              wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game
                              is
                              > > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                              > > >
                              > > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                              > > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more
                              than
                              > > > enough time to make a play.
                              > > >
                              > > > Pick up da pace
                              > > > Jim Rzonca
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                              > seconds
                              > > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even
                              if
                              > > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least
                              one
                              > > guy
                              > > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                              > all
                              > > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                              seconds
                              > > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > From: sabre virginia
                              > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not
                              apply.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including
                              me,
                              > > > could
                              > > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch
                              from
                              > > > both
                              > > > > of you.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                              > > > right
                              > > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                              > > > games (A
                              > > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                              > > > center on
                              > > > > the same board, with no interference using the
                              AJSsupercenter
                              > > > rod.
                              > > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                              > > > the net
                              > > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                              > > > defensemen)
                              > > > > can intercept the puck.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I
                              differ
                              > > > from
                              > > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8
                              second
                              > > > rule.
                              > > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                              > > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                              > > > wing
                              > > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but
                              the
                              > > > winger
                              > > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                              > > > winger
                              > > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                              > > > winger to
                              > > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                              > > > too
                              > > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                              > > > puck, it
                              > > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger
                              COULD
                              > > > play
                              > > > > the puck. That's life!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > with regards
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ..aj5380
                              > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Good point Dave!
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our
                              league.
                              > > > I
                              > > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                              > > > there is a
                              > > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                              > > > restarts
                              > > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                              > > > intercept,
                              > > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so,
                              so
                              > > > I
                              > > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                              > > > behind
                              > > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                              > > > do
                              > > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to
                              winger,
                              > > > and
                              > > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                              > > > winger to
                              > > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                              > > > change of
                              > > > > possession.
                              > > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player
                              first
                              > > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the
                              puck
                              > > > rolls
                              > > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                              > > > can't add
                              > > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                              > > > if we
                              > > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                              > > > that as
                              > > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                              > > > strict
                              > > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                              > > > hard time
                              > > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                              > > > make a
                              > > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                              > > > roll
                              > > > > quickly and smoothly!
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > BURT
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                              > > > would
                              > > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I
                              am
                              > > > a
                              > > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                              > > > sponsors.
                              > > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                              > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                              > > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                              > > > second
                              > > > > play rule.
                              > > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                              > > > puck
                              > > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                              > > > second
                              > > > > rule.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                              > > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                              > > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                              > > > through
                              > > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at
                              anytime
                              > > > by the
                              > > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                              > > > occassions and
                              > > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                              > > > gets on
                              > > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                              > > > possession
                              > > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                              > > > seconds
                              > > > > to make a play.
                              > > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                              > > > commence.
                              > > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play
                              or
                              > > > is it
                              > > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                              > > > There have
                              > > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                              > > > settle
                              > > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                              > > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last
                              week
                              > > > and
                              > > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five
                              second
                              > > > rule
                              > > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                              > > > five
                              > > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                              > > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                              > > > because it
                              > > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                              > > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                              > > > rule
                              > > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                              > > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                              > > > > > Dave
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                              > > > > -----------
                              > > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                              > > > people. Go
                              > > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                              > > > -----------
                              > > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                              > > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ---------------------------------
                              > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-
                              > new
                              > > Yahoo! Mail.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada
                              Messenger with Voice
                              >
                            • carlo bossio
                              Right on the money Jim. Yet again. Jim Rzonca wrote: Well if it ever got to 8 or 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather be playing
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 7, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Right on the money Jim. Yet again.

                                Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@...> wrote:
                                Well if it ever got to 8 or 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather
                                be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five
                                minuite game folks. Besides, 3 or 4 does not give the newer player a
                                chance to learn or do anything on the game. In the end, Fast with
                                Finesse is where the moneys at.

                                Jim Rzonca

                                --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@ ...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes
                                slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is Table
                                Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good in
                                my opinion.
                                >
                                > Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know
                                that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my league
                                who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should them
                                what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                                >
                                > I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net pass.
                                When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the
                                opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think
                                happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score. Everytime.
                                Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net and
                                that is ridiculouse.
                                >
                                > Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way it
                                is, less controversy. Peace.
                                >
                                > Steve <mthl@...> wrote:
                                > has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4
                                seconds per
                                > possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                                > great. i think 5 sec is way to long.
                                >
                                > stein
                                >
                                > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                                > >
                                > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@ >
                                wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game
                                is
                                > > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                                > > >
                                > > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                > > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more
                                than
                                > > > enough time to make a play.
                                > > >
                                > > > Pick up da pace
                                > > > Jim Rzonca
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                                > seconds
                                > > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even
                                if
                                > > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least
                                one
                                > > guy
                                > > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                                > all
                                > > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                                seconds
                                > > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > From: sabre virginia
                                > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                                > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                                > > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not
                                apply.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including
                                me,
                                > > > could
                                > > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch
                                from
                                > > > both
                                > > > > of you.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                                > > > right
                                > > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                                > > > games (A
                                > > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                                > > > center on
                                > > > > the same board, with no interference using the
                                AJSsupercenter
                                > > > rod.
                                > > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                                > > > the net
                                > > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                                > > > defensemen)
                                > > > > can intercept the puck.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I
                                differ
                                > > > from
                                > > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8
                                second
                                > > > rule.
                                > > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                                > > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                                > > > wing
                                > > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but
                                the
                                > > > winger
                                > > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                                > > > winger
                                > > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                                > > > winger to
                                > > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                                > > > too
                                > > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                                > > > puck, it
                                > > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger
                                COULD
                                > > > play
                                > > > > the puck. That's life!
                                > > > >
                                > > > > with regards
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ..aj5380
                                > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Good point Dave!
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our
                                league.
                                > > > I
                                > > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                                > > > there is a
                                > > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                                > > > restarts
                                > > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                                > > > intercept,
                                > > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so,
                                so
                                > > > I
                                > > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                                > > > behind
                                > > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                                > > > do
                                > > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to
                                winger,
                                > > > and
                                > > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                                > > > winger to
                                > > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                                > > > change of
                                > > > > possession.
                                > > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player
                                first
                                > > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the
                                puck
                                > > > rolls
                                > > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                                > > > can't add
                                > > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                                > > > if we
                                > > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                                > > > that as
                                > > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                                > > > strict
                                > > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                                > > > hard time
                                > > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                                > > > make a
                                > > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                                > > > roll
                                > > > > quickly and smoothly!
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > BURT
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                                > > > would
                                > > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I
                                am
                                > > > a
                                > > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                                > > > sponsors.
                                > > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                                > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                                > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                                > > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                                > > > second
                                > > > > play rule.
                                > > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                                > > > puck
                                > > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                                > > > second
                                > > > > rule.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                                > > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                                > > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                                > > > through
                                > > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at
                                anytime
                                > > > by the
                                > > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                                > > > occassions and
                                > > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                                > > > gets on
                                > > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                                > > > possession
                                > > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                                > > > seconds
                                > > > > to make a play.
                                > > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                                > > > commence.
                                > > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play
                                or
                                > > > is it
                                > > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                                > > > There have
                                > > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                                > > > settle
                                > > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                                > > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last
                                week
                                > > > and
                                > > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five
                                second
                                > > > rule
                                > > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                                > > > five
                                > > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                                > > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                                > > > because it
                                > > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                                > > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                                > > > rule
                                > > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                                > > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                                > > > > > Dave
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                > > > > -----------
                                > > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                                > > > people. Go
                                > > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                > > > -----------
                                > > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                > > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-
                                > new
                                > > Yahoo! Mail.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
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                              • sabre virginia
                                I m stating the obvious, but it seems we are done with this topic. oui? carlo bossio wrote: Right on the money Jim. Yet again.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 8, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I'm stating the obvious, but it seems we are done with this topic. oui?

                                  carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@...> wrote:
                                  Right on the money Jim. Yet again.

                                  Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@webtv. net> wrote:
                                  Well if it ever got to 8 or 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather
                                  be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five
                                  minuite game folks. Besides, 3 or 4 does not give the newer player a
                                  chance to learn or do anything on the game. In the end, Fast with
                                  Finesse is where the moneys at.

                                  Jim Rzonca

                                  --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes
                                  slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is Table
                                  Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good in
                                  my opinion.
                                  >
                                  > Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know
                                  that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my league
                                  who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should them
                                  what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                                  >
                                  > I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net pass.
                                  When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the
                                  opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think
                                  happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score. Everytime.
                                  Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net and
                                  that is ridiculouse.
                                  >
                                  > Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way it
                                  is, less controversy. Peace.
                                  >
                                  > Steve <mthl@...> wrote:
                                  > has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4
                                  seconds per
                                  > possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                                  > great. i think 5 sec is way to long.
                                  >
                                  > stein
                                  >
                                  > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@ >
                                  wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game
                                  is
                                  > > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                  > > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more
                                  than
                                  > > > enough time to make a play.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Pick up da pace
                                  > > > Jim Rzonca
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                                  > seconds
                                  > > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even
                                  if
                                  > > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least
                                  one
                                  > > guy
                                  > > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                                  > all
                                  > > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                                  seconds
                                  > > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > From: sabre virginia
                                  > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                                  > > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not
                                  apply.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including
                                  me,
                                  > > > could
                                  > > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch
                                  from
                                  > > > both
                                  > > > > of you.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                                  > > > right
                                  > > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                                  > > > games (A
                                  > > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                                  > > > center on
                                  > > > > the same board, with no interference using the
                                  AJSsupercenter
                                  > > > rod.
                                  > > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                                  > > > the net
                                  > > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                                  > > > defensemen)
                                  > > > > can intercept the puck.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I
                                  differ
                                  > > > from
                                  > > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8
                                  second
                                  > > > rule.
                                  > > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                                  > > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                                  > > > wing
                                  > > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but
                                  the
                                  > > > winger
                                  > > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                                  > > > winger
                                  > > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                                  > > > winger to
                                  > > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                                  > > > too
                                  > > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                                  > > > puck, it
                                  > > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger
                                  COULD
                                  > > > play
                                  > > > > the puck. That's life!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > with regards
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ..aj5380
                                  > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Good point Dave!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our
                                  league.
                                  > > > I
                                  > > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                                  > > > there is a
                                  > > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                                  > > > restarts
                                  > > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                                  > > > intercept,
                                  > > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so,
                                  so
                                  > > > I
                                  > > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                                  > > > behind
                                  > > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                                  > > > do
                                  > > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to
                                  winger,
                                  > > > and
                                  > > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                                  > > > winger to
                                  > > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                                  > > > change of
                                  > > > > possession.
                                  > > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player
                                  first
                                  > > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the
                                  puck
                                  > > > rolls
                                  > > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                                  > > > can't add
                                  > > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                                  > > > if we
                                  > > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                                  > > > that as
                                  > > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                                  > > > strict
                                  > > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                                  > > > hard time
                                  > > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                                  > > > make a
                                  > > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                                  > > > roll
                                  > > > > quickly and smoothly!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > BURT
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                                  > > > would
                                  > > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I
                                  am
                                  > > > a
                                  > > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                                  > > > sponsors.
                                  > > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                                  > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                                  > > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                                  > > > second
                                  > > > > play rule.
                                  > > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                                  > > > puck
                                  > > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                                  > > > second
                                  > > > > rule.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                                  > > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                                  > > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                                  > > > through
                                  > > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at
                                  anytime
                                  > > > by the
                                  > > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                                  > > > occassions and
                                  > > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                                  > > > gets on
                                  > > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                                  > > > possession
                                  > > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                                  > > > seconds
                                  > > > > to make a play.
                                  > > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                                  > > > commence.
                                  > > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play
                                  or
                                  > > > is it
                                  > > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                                  > > > There have
                                  > > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                                  > > > settle
                                  > > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                                  > > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last
                                  week
                                  > > > and
                                  > > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five
                                  second
                                  > > > rule
                                  > > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                                  > > > five
                                  > > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                                  > > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                                  > > > because it
                                  > > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                                  > > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                                  > > > rule
                                  > > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                                  > > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                                  > > > > > Dave
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                  > > > > -----------
                                  > > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                                  > > > people. Go
                                  > > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                  > > > -----------
                                  > > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                  > > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                  > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-
                                  > new
                                  > > Yahoo! Mail.
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • colecojohnny
                                  While some may be finished with this topic, I d like to chime in and play devils advocate here. I ve never warned a player to move the puck or else,
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 10, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    While some may be finished with this topic, I'd like to chime in and
                                    play devils advocate here. I've never warned a player to move the
                                    puck or else, regardless of the score, because I respectfully do not
                                    agree with the rule to move the puck within five seconds.

                                    Of course I understand the reasons for the rule: five minute game,
                                    guys with possession late in the game can delay, etc. but when it
                                    comes down to it, I think even with a referee, there is just too
                                    much discretion in regards to starting the five seconds. I'd rather
                                    not play at all than play with someone looking over my shoulder
                                    deciding for me when I should make a pass/shot. I guess I lack the
                                    skill to have the puck and make a move in that time period. Great
                                    players, elite players here in North America never have this
                                    problem: great!

                                    Take a look at the Stiga champs in Europe. All of them play an
                                    elegant style and they sometimes take way more than five seconds
                                    with the puck
                                    (according to the footage I have). This practice does not seem to
                                    have an effect on their prowess and domination when they come to
                                    North America to play. Yes, I will follow the rules, but that does
                                    not mean I agree with them--and I'll never force another player to
                                    follow the rule if it is just the two of us with no ref. My
                                    solution: ask the players to move the puck in a reasonable period.
                                    Be a sportsman, not a nag.
                                    colecojohnny@...


                                    --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, sabre virginia <sabre_in_virginia@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I'm stating the obvious, but it seems we are done with this topic.
                                    oui?
                                    >
                                    > carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@...> wrote: Right on the money
                                    Jim. Yet again.
                                    >
                                    > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@...> wrote: Well if it ever got to 8 or
                                    9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather
                                    > be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five
                                    > minuite game folks. Besides, 3 or 4 does not give the newer player
                                    a
                                    > chance to learn or do anything on the game. In the end, Fast with
                                    > Finesse is where the moneys at.
                                    >
                                    > Jim Rzonca
                                    >
                                    > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes
                                    > slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is
                                    Table
                                    > Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good in
                                    > my opinion.
                                    > >
                                    > > Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know
                                    > that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my
                                    league
                                    > who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should
                                    them
                                    > what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                                    > >
                                    > > I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net pass.
                                    > When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the
                                    > opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think
                                    > happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score. Everytime.
                                    > Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net
                                    and
                                    > that is ridiculouse.
                                    > >
                                    > > Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way it
                                    > is, less controversy. Peace.
                                    > >
                                    > > Steve <mthl@> wrote:
                                    > > has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4
                                    > seconds per
                                    > > possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                                    > > great. i think 5 sec is way to long.
                                    > >
                                    > > stein
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the
                                    game
                                    > is
                                    > > > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                    > > > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more
                                    > than
                                    > > > > enough time to make a play.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Pick up da pace
                                    > > > > Jim Rzonca
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                                    > > seconds
                                    > > > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even
                                    > if
                                    > > > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least
                                    > one
                                    > > > guy
                                    > > > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win
                                    at
                                    > > all
                                    > > > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                                    > seconds
                                    > > > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                                    > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > > > From: sabre virginia
                                    > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                                    > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not
                                    > apply.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including
                                    > me,
                                    > > > > could
                                    > > > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch
                                    > from
                                    > > > > both
                                    > > > > > of you.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4
                                    games
                                    > > > > right
                                    > > > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup
                                    final
                                    > > > > games (A
                                    > > > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                                    > > > > center on
                                    > > > > > the same board, with no interference using the
                                    > AJSsupercenter
                                    > > > > rod.
                                    > > > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass
                                    behind
                                    > > > > the net
                                    > > > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                                    > > > > defensemen)
                                    > > > > > can intercept the puck.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I
                                    > differ
                                    > > > > from
                                    > > > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8
                                    > second
                                    > > > > rule.
                                    > > > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck
                                    is
                                    > > > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the
                                    right
                                    > > > > wing
                                    > > > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but
                                    > the
                                    > > > > winger
                                    > > > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only
                                    the
                                    > > > > winger
                                    > > > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                                    > > > > winger to
                                    > > > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get
                                    there,
                                    > > > > too
                                    > > > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                                    > > > > puck, it
                                    > > > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger
                                    > COULD
                                    > > > > play
                                    > > > > > the puck. That's life!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > with regards
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > ..aj5380
                                    > > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Good point Dave!
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our
                                    > league.
                                    > > > > I
                                    > > > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                                    > > > > there is a
                                    > > > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                                    > > > > restarts
                                    > > > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                                    > > > > intercept,
                                    > > > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think
                                    so,
                                    > so
                                    > > > > I
                                    > > > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the
                                    puck
                                    > > > > behind
                                    > > > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent
                                    cannot
                                    > > > > do
                                    > > > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to
                                    > winger,
                                    > > > > and
                                    > > > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                                    > > > > winger to
                                    > > > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                                    > > > > change of
                                    > > > > > possession.
                                    > > > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player
                                    > first
                                    > > > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the
                                    > puck
                                    > > > > rolls
                                    > > > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                                    > > > > can't add
                                    > > > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds,
                                    otherwise
                                    > > > > if we
                                    > > > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will
                                    use
                                    > > > > that as
                                    > > > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must
                                    be
                                    > > > > strict
                                    > > > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                                    > > > > hard time
                                    > > > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play
                                    and
                                    > > > > make a
                                    > > > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things
                                    should
                                    > > > > roll
                                    > > > > > quickly and smoothly!
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > BURT
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                                    > > > > would
                                    > > > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I
                                    > am
                                    > > > > a
                                    > > > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                                    > > > > sponsors.
                                    > > > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                                    > > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                                    > > > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the
                                    5
                                    > > > > second
                                    > > > > > play rule.
                                    > > > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass
                                    the
                                    > > > > puck
                                    > > > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the
                                    5
                                    > > > > second
                                    > > > > > rule.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates
                                    the
                                    > > > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                                    > > > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                                    > > > > through
                                    > > > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at
                                    > anytime
                                    > > > > by the
                                    > > > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                                    > > > > occassions and
                                    > > > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                                    > > > > gets on
                                    > > > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                                    > > > > possession
                                    > > > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to
                                    8
                                    > > > > seconds
                                    > > > > > to make a play.
                                    > > > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                                    > > > > commence.
                                    > > > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a
                                    play
                                    > or
                                    > > > > is it
                                    > > > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                                    > > > > There have
                                    > > > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying
                                    to
                                    > > > > settle
                                    > > > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                                    > > > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last
                                    > week
                                    > > > > and
                                    > > > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five
                                    > second
                                    > > > > rule
                                    > > > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck
                                    the
                                    > > > > five
                                    > > > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within
                                    five
                                    > > > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                                    > > > > because it
                                    > > > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense
                                    cannot
                                    > > > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                                    > > > > rule
                                    > > > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                                    > > > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                                    > > > > > > Dave
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
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                                  • aj5380
                                    Hi John, we ve been through all of this and your last statement is the crux of this issue: What is a reasonable amount of time? Jim said
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Feb 10, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi John, we've been through all of this and your last statement is
                                      the crux of this issue: "What is a reasonable amount of time?"

                                      Jim said 1000,2000,3000,4000,5000 and I agree with that 100%.

                                      We know of Stiga players at the Euro Championships sitting on a one
                                      goal lead for entire game passing the puck to their own player,
                                      using the 5 second rule for 4 minutes. While this is within the
                                      rules, it is no fun for the opponent or the fans. Are we here to
                                      have fun playing our sport or are we here only to win?

                                      When there is fear that a (whatever time) delay of game will be
                                      called, the player's adrenaline kicks in and he may fumble his pass
                                      or play giving the opponent a chance, or make a spectacular play.

                                      Most players in Las Vegas, Montreal, Brampton, Chicago, play with
                                      that clock in their head and rarely is it called. Only players who
                                      are used to holding the puck for 8 or 9 seconds without getting
                                      called have an issue with this rule. And this rule should apply in
                                      OT to be consistent.

                                      regards
                                      ...aj5380







                                      --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, "colecojohnny" <mrjohnpower@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > While some may be finished with this topic, I'd like to chime in
                                      and
                                      > play devils advocate here. I've never warned a player to move the
                                      > puck or else, regardless of the score, because I respectfully do
                                      not
                                      > agree with the rule to move the puck within five seconds.
                                      >
                                      > Of course I understand the reasons for the rule: five minute game,
                                      > guys with possession late in the game can delay, etc. but when it
                                      > comes down to it, I think even with a referee, there is just too
                                      > much discretion in regards to starting the five seconds. I'd
                                      rather
                                      > not play at all than play with someone looking over my shoulder
                                      > deciding for me when I should make a pass/shot. I guess I lack
                                      the
                                      > skill to have the puck and make a move in that time period. Great
                                      > players, elite players here in North America never have this
                                      > problem: great!
                                      >
                                      > Take a look at the Stiga champs in Europe. All of them play an
                                      > elegant style and they sometimes take way more than five seconds
                                      > with the puck
                                      > (according to the footage I have). This practice does not seem to
                                      > have an effect on their prowess and domination when they come to
                                      > North America to play. Yes, I will follow the rules, but that
                                      does
                                      > not mean I agree with them--and I'll never force another player to
                                      > follow the rule if it is just the two of us with no ref. My
                                      > solution: ask the players to move the puck in a reasonable
                                      period.
                                      > Be a sportsman, not a nag.
                                      > colecojohnny@...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, sabre virginia <sabre_in_virginia@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I'm stating the obvious, but it seems we are done with this
                                      topic.
                                      > oui?
                                      > >
                                      > > carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@> wrote: Right on the money
                                      > Jim. Yet again.
                                      > >
                                      > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote: Well if it ever got to 8 or
                                      > 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather
                                      > > be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five
                                      > > minuite game folks. Besides, 3 or 4 does not give the newer
                                      player
                                      > a
                                      > > chance to learn or do anything on the game. In the end, Fast
                                      with
                                      > > Finesse is where the moneys at.
                                      > >
                                      > > Jim Rzonca
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes
                                      > > slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is
                                      > Table
                                      > > Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good
                                      in
                                      > > my opinion.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know
                                      > > that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my
                                      > league
                                      > > who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should
                                      > them
                                      > > what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net
                                      pass.
                                      > > When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the
                                      > > opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think
                                      > > happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score.
                                      Everytime.
                                      > > Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net
                                      > and
                                      > > that is ridiculouse.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way
                                      it
                                      > > is, less controversy. Peace.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Steve <mthl@> wrote:
                                      > > > has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4
                                      > > seconds per
                                      > > > possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it
                                      worked
                                      > > > great. i think 5 sec is way to long.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > stein
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the
                                      > game
                                      > > is
                                      > > > > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is
                                      more
                                      > > than
                                      > > > > > enough time to make a play.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Pick up da pace
                                      > > > > > Jim Rzonca
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                                      > > > seconds
                                      > > > > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me,
                                      even
                                      > > if
                                      > > > > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at
                                      least
                                      > > one
                                      > > > > guy
                                      > > > > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to
                                      win
                                      > at
                                      > > > all
                                      > > > > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                                      > > seconds
                                      > > > > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                                      > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > > > From: sabre virginia
                                      > > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                                      > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should
                                      not
                                      > > apply.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People,
                                      including
                                      > > me,
                                      > > > > > could
                                      > > > > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch
                                      > > from
                                      > > > > > both
                                      > > > > > > of you.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4
                                      > games
                                      > > > > > right
                                      > > > > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup
                                      > final
                                      > > > > > games (A
                                      > > > > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and
                                      right
                                      > > > > > center on
                                      > > > > > > the same board, with no interference using the
                                      > > AJSsupercenter
                                      > > > > > rod.
                                      > > > > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass
                                      > behind
                                      > > > > > the net
                                      > > > > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                                      > > > > > defensemen)
                                      > > > > > > can intercept the puck.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I
                                      > > differ
                                      > > > > > from
                                      > > > > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8
                                      > > second
                                      > > > > > rule.
                                      > > > > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the
                                      puck
                                      > is
                                      > > > > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the
                                      > right
                                      > > > > > wing
                                      > > > > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line,
                                      but
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > > winger
                                      > > > > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only
                                      > the
                                      > > > > > winger
                                      > > > > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                                      > > > > > winger to
                                      > > > > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get
                                      > there,
                                      > > > > > too
                                      > > > > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling
                                      the
                                      > > > > > puck, it
                                      > > > > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger
                                      > > COULD
                                      > > > > > play
                                      > > > > > > the puck. That's life!
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > with regards
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > ..aj5380
                                      > > > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > Good point Dave!
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our
                                      > > league.
                                      > > > > > I
                                      > > > > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect
                                      when
                                      > > > > > there is a
                                      > > > > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger
                                      pass
                                      > > > > > restarts
                                      > > > > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                                      > > > > > intercept,
                                      > > > > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think
                                      > so,
                                      > > so
                                      > > > > > I
                                      > > > > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the
                                      > puck
                                      > > > > > behind
                                      > > > > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent
                                      > cannot
                                      > > > > > do
                                      > > > > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to
                                      > > winger,
                                      > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from
                                      right
                                      > > > > > winger to
                                      > > > > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                                      > > > > > change of
                                      > > > > > > possession.
                                      > > > > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player
                                      > > first
                                      > > > > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the
                                      > > puck
                                      > > > > > rolls
                                      > > > > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but
                                      we
                                      > > > > > can't add
                                      > > > > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds,
                                      > otherwise
                                      > > > > > if we
                                      > > > > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will
                                      > use
                                      > > > > > that as
                                      > > > > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must
                                      > be
                                      > > > > > strict
                                      > > > > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has
                                      a
                                      > > > > > hard time
                                      > > > > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play
                                      > and
                                      > > > > > make a
                                      > > > > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things
                                      > should
                                      > > > > > roll
                                      > > > > > > quickly and smoothly!
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > BURT
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs
                                      Europeans,I
                                      > > > > > would
                                      > > > > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as
                                      I
                                      > > am
                                      > > > > > a
                                      > > > > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and
                                      maybe
                                      > > > > > sponsors.
                                      > > > > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                                      > > > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                                      > > > > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of
                                      the
                                      > 5
                                      > > > > > second
                                      > > > > > > play rule.
                                      > > > > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass
                                      > the
                                      > > > > > puck
                                      > > > > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of
                                      the
                                      > 5
                                      > > > > > second
                                      > > > > > > rule.
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates
                                      > the
                                      > > > > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                                      > > > > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                                      > > > > > through
                                      > > > > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at
                                      > > anytime
                                      > > > > > by the
                                      > > > > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                                      > > > > > occassions and
                                      > > > > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before
                                      everyone
                                      > > > > > gets on
                                      > > > > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                                      > > > > > possession
                                      > > > > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards
                                      to
                                      > 8
                                      > > > > > seconds
                                      > > > > > > to make a play.
                                      > > > > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                                      > > > > > commence.
                                      > > > > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a
                                      > play
                                      > > or
                                      > > > > > is it
                                      > > > > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the
                                      play?
                                      > > > > > There have
                                      > > > > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and
                                      trying
                                      > to
                                      > > > > > settle
                                      > > > > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                                      > > > > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last
                                      > > week
                                      > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five
                                      > > second
                                      > > > > > rule
                                      > > > > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck
                                      > the
                                      > > > > > five
                                      > > > > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within
                                      > five
                                      > > > > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                                      > > > > > because it
                                      > > > > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense
                                      > cannot
                                      > > > > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five
                                      second
                                      > > > > > rule
                                      > > > > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                                      > > > > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                                      > > > > > > > Dave
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------
                                      --
                                      > -
                                      > > > > > > -----------
                                      > > > > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                                      > > > > > people. Go
                                      > > > > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
                                      -
                                      > > > > > -----------
                                      > > > > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-
                                      Check.
                                      > > > > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the
                                      > All-
                                      > > > new
                                      > > > > Yahoo! Mail.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada
                                      > > Messenger with Voice
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ---------------------------------
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                                      > Messenger with Voice
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > Be a PS3 game guru.
                                      > > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
                                      > Yahoo! Games.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Jim Rzonca
                                      Hello Greg. Topics are always open for discussion. Thats why we are here. I like to hear MANY opinoins, not just from the usual few. 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000,
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Feb 10, 2007
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                                        Hello Greg. Topics are always open for discussion. Thats why we are here. I like to hear MANY opinoins, not just from the usual few.

                                        1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Hey! Gotta move the puck man.


                                        Lets Play!
                                        Jim Rzonca

                                        --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, sabre virginia <sabre_in_virginia@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I'm stating the obvious, but it seems we are done with this topic. oui?
                                        >
                                        > carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@...> wrote: Right on the money Jim. Yet again.
                                        >
                                        > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@...> wrote: Well if it ever got to 8 or 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather
                                        > be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five
                                        > minuite game folks. Besides, 3 or 4 does not give the newer player a
                                        > chance to learn or do anything on the game. In the end, Fast with
                                        > Finesse is where the moneys at.
                                        >
                                        > Jim Rzonca
                                        >
                                        > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes
                                        > slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is Table
                                        > Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good in
                                        > my opinion.
                                        > >
                                        > > Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know
                                        > that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my league
                                        > who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should them
                                        > what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                                        > >
                                        > > I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net pass.
                                        > When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the
                                        > opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think
                                        > happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score. Everytime.
                                        > Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net and
                                        > that is ridiculouse.
                                        > >
                                        > > Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way it
                                        > is, less controversy. Peace.
                                        > >
                                        > > Steve <mthl@> wrote:
                                        > > has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4
                                        > seconds per
                                        > > possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                                        > > great. i think 5 sec is way to long.
                                        > >
                                        > > stein
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game
                                        > is
                                        > > > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                        > > > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more
                                        > than
                                        > > > > enough time to make a play.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Pick up da pace
                                        > > > > Jim Rzonca
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                                        > > seconds
                                        > > > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even
                                        > if
                                        > > > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least
                                        > one
                                        > > > guy
                                        > > > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                                        > > all
                                        > > > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                                        > seconds
                                        > > > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                                        > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > > From: sabre virginia
                                        > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                                        > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not
                                        > apply.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including
                                        > me,
                                        > > > > could
                                        > > > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch
                                        > from
                                        > > > > both
                                        > > > > > of you.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                                        > > > > right
                                        > > > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                                        > > > > games (A
                                        > > > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                                        > > > > center on
                                        > > > > > the same board, with no interference using the
                                        > AJSsupercenter
                                        > > > > rod.
                                        > > > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                                        > > > > the net
                                        > > > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                                        > > > > defensemen)
                                        > > > > > can intercept the puck.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I
                                        > differ
                                        > > > > from
                                        > > > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8
                                        > second
                                        > > > > rule.
                                        > > > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                                        > > > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                                        > > > > wing
                                        > > > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but
                                        > the
                                        > > > > winger
                                        > > > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                                        > > > > winger
                                        > > > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                                        > > > > winger to
                                        > > > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                                        > > > > too
                                        > > > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                                        > > > > puck, it
                                        > > > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger
                                        > COULD
                                        > > > > play
                                        > > > > > the puck. That's life!
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > with regards
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > ..aj5380
                                        > > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups.com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Good point Dave!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our
                                        > league.
                                        > > > > I
                                        > > > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                                        > > > > there is a
                                        > > > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                                        > > > > restarts
                                        > > > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                                        > > > > intercept,
                                        > > > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so,
                                        > so
                                        > > > > I
                                        > > > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                                        > > > > behind
                                        > > > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                                        > > > > do
                                        > > > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to
                                        > winger,
                                        > > > > and
                                        > > > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                                        > > > > winger to
                                        > > > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                                        > > > > change of
                                        > > > > > possession.
                                        > > > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player
                                        > first
                                        > > > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the
                                        > puck
                                        > > > > rolls
                                        > > > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                                        > > > > can't add
                                        > > > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                                        > > > > if we
                                        > > > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                                        > > > > that as
                                        > > > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                                        > > > > strict
                                        > > > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                                        > > > > hard time
                                        > > > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                                        > > > > make a
                                        > > > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                                        > > > > roll
                                        > > > > > quickly and smoothly!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > BURT
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                                        > > > > would
                                        > > > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I
                                        > am
                                        > > > > a
                                        > > > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                                        > > > > sponsors.
                                        > > > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                                        > > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                                        > > > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                                        > > > > second
                                        > > > > > play rule.
                                        > > > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                                        > > > > puck
                                        > > > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                                        > > > > second
                                        > > > > > rule.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                                        > > > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                                        > > > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                                        > > > > through
                                        > > > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at
                                        > anytime
                                        > > > > by the
                                        > > > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                                        > > > > occassions and
                                        > > > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                                        > > > > gets on
                                        > > > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                                        > > > > possession
                                        > > > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                                        > > > > seconds
                                        > > > > > to make a play.
                                        > > > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                                        > > > > commence.
                                        > > > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play
                                        > or
                                        > > > > is it
                                        > > > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                                        > > > > There have
                                        > > > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                                        > > > > settle
                                        > > > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                                        > > > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last
                                        > week
                                        > > > > and
                                        > > > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five
                                        > second
                                        > > > > rule
                                        > > > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                                        > > > > five
                                        > > > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                                        > > > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                                        > > > > because it
                                        > > > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                                        > > > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                                        > > > > rule
                                        > > > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                                        > > > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                                        > > > > > > Dave
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > > > > -----------
                                        > > > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real
                                        > > > > people. Go
                                        > > > > > to Yahoo! Answers.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > > > -----------
                                        > > > > > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
                                        > > > > > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > > > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-
                                        > > new
                                        > > > Yahoo! Mail.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada
                                        > Messenger with Voice
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Be a PS3 game guru.
                                        > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
                                        >
                                      • Burt Brassard
                                        I agree completely with Jim and Ajit on this. In league play, it s not necessary to be strict on this rule, but in tournaments with some players who want to
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Feb 10, 2007
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                                          I agree completely with Jim and Ajit on this.  In league play, it's not necessary to be strict on this rule, but in tournaments with some players who want to win at all costs, there must be a 5 second rule!  Sorry John, it's not being a "nag" to call "delay of game" when you are the referee, it's just about being fair and good sportsmanship.  I've been through this a couple of years ago at Mark Sokolski's "Toronto Classic" against you gessed it, Mr. Greg Peden.  The first game he played fair, it was the preliminary round, and I beat him by 1 goal.  Then in the 2 out of 3 Quarter-Finals, he used consistent 6-10 seconds before moving the puck from his winger, after freezing me out.  The result was he threw me off completely, as I am a fast player.  And he wasn't even called in game #1, because it was his friend Mark Cadeau who reffed.  Then in game #2, I asked for a different ref.  This time, it was Neil Whitely and he called him many times.  Greg argued with him the whole game about his method of counting 5 seconds, it was really ugly and cheap.  I didn't even want to play anymore, it was painful and ridiculous.  Oh yeah, I got creamed in both games, hardly never touching the puck; he found a way to win the face-offs, then hogged the puck consistently.  He told me after the series, that was part of the game, let that be a lesson to you!  And that he could use any tactic he wanted to beat me!!  I refused to shake hands with him after the series, wich I never do, because I am a good sportsman.  SO IF IT WASN'T FOR THE GREG PEDEN'S OF THIS WORLD, WE WOULD NOT NEED ANY RULES!  BUT SADLY ENOUGH, THESE GUYS EXIST!  SO WE NEED A SET OF RULES FOR TOURNAMENTS!
                                           
                                          BURT
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:07 PM
                                          Subject: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment



                                          Hello Greg. Topics are always open for discussion. Thats why we are here. I like to hear MANY opinoins, not just from the usual few.

                                          1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Hey! Gotta move the puck man.

                                          Lets Play!
                                          Jim Rzonca

                                          --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, sabre virginia <sabre_in_virginia@ ...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I'm stating the obvious, but it seems we are done with this topic. oui?
                                          >
                                          > carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@ ...> wrote: Right on the money Jim. Yet again.
                                          >
                                          > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@... > wrote: Well if it ever got to 8 or 9 seconds {yawn...}then id much rather
                                          > be playing ping pong.. 5 seconds is standard. Its only a five
                                          > minuite game folks. Besides, 3 or 4 does not give the newer player a
                                          > chance to learn or do anything on the game. In the end, Fast with
                                          > Finesse is where the moneys at.
                                          >
                                          > Jim Rzonca
                                          >
                                          > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, carlo bossio <bossiocarlo@ > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Guys, remember this is not ping pong. Sometimes fast somtimes
                                          > slow, change it up, unbalance your opponent etc, etc. This is Table
                                          > Hockey, and finess is just as important as speed. 5 sec is good in
                                          > my opinion.
                                          > >
                                          > > Winger to winger should count as a 5 sec total as well. I know
                                          > that you can stop the play behind the net but the guys in my league
                                          > who brought that up changed their minds real fast when I should them
                                          > what I would do to them if they wanted it changed.
                                          > >
                                          > > I wasted over 14 seconds doing this stupid behind the net pass.
                                          > When I faked a pass, they took off there hand to bring the
                                          > opposite "D" to stop the pass behind the net. What do you think
                                          > happened. A free hand, thus I pass to center and score. Everytime.
                                          > Not to mention you can wast so much time passing behind the net and
                                          > that is ridiculouse.
                                          > >
                                          > > Trust me I know what I'm talking about here. Keep it the way it
                                          > is, less controversy. Peace.
                                          > >
                                          > > Steve <mthl@> wrote:
                                          > > has anyone ever thought that we should go with a 4
                                          > seconds per
                                          > > possesion rule? we played that on benej for years and it worked
                                          > > great. i think 5 sec is way to long.
                                          > >
                                          > > stein
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, "Jim Rzonca" <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, Times up.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Dave Kraehling <superdave3n2@ >
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > But I like finese, give me 8secs (LOL). Besides when the game
                                          > is
                                          > > > being refereed the ref can decide on delay of game tactics.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jim Rzonca <jrzonca@> wrote:
                                          > > > > 5 seconds is pretty standard in all table hockey and is more
                                          > than
                                          > > > > enough time to make a play.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Pick up da pace
                                          > > > > Jim Rzonca
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Why not? Someone could try to throw you off by taking 15
                                          > > seconds
                                          > > > > to make a play, and that would not be fair! Believe me, even
                                          > if
                                          > > > > most players are fair and would not do this, I know at least
                                          > one
                                          > > > guy
                                          > > > > who uses every trick in the book and bends the rules to win at
                                          > > all
                                          > > > > costs! Consistency is the way to go, like Dave said; so 5
                                          > seconds
                                          > > > > to play the puck, overtime included. BURT
                                          > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > > From: sabre virginia
                                          > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                                          > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:05 PM
                                          > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccth] Re: 5 second rule amendment
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I think that during overtime the 5 second rule should not
                                          > apply.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > aj5380 <aj5380@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Carlo and Dave, Thanks for your support. People, including
                                          > me,
                                          > > > > could
                                          > > > > > learn a lot about being gentlemen without giving an inch
                                          > from
                                          > > > > both
                                          > > > > > of you.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > The tournament went really well and Dave won playing 4 games
                                          > > > > right
                                          > > > > > handed and 3 games left handed. Out of 14 Stanley Cup final
                                          > > > > games (A
                                          > > > > > and B division) 10 games were played with a left and right
                                          > > > > center on
                                          > > > > > the same board, with no interference using the
                                          > AJSsupercenter
                                          > > > > rod.
                                          > > > > > They stood up to the test and delivered.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I agree with Dave 100% that the winger to winger pass behind
                                          > > > > the net
                                          > > > > > should not be considered delay of game since one (or two
                                          > > > > defensemen)
                                          > > > > > can intercept the puck.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Re: controlling the puck, we have talked about it and I
                                          > differ
                                          > > > > from
                                          > > > > > Dave and agree with Burt. I would not like to see an 8
                                          > second
                                          > > > > rule.
                                          > > > > > I think the 5 second rule should start a soon as the puck is
                                          > > > > > playable. If the puck comes into an area when only the right
                                          > > > > wing
                                          > > > > > can play it, and the puck stops around the goal line, but
                                          > the
                                          > > > > winger
                                          > > > > > is at center ice, the 5 second rule starts, because only the
                                          > > > > winger
                                          > > > > > can play the puck. My thought here is that it forces the
                                          > > > > winger to
                                          > > > > > hustle and get the puck. If he takes 2 seconds to get there,
                                          > > > > too
                                          > > > > > bad, he has just 3 seconds now. Same goes for settling the
                                          > > > > puck, it
                                          > > > > > should be within the 5 seconds from the time the winger
                                          > COULD
                                          > > > > play
                                          > > > > > the puck. That's life!
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > with regards
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > ..aj5380
                                          > > > > > --- In ccth@yahoogroups. com, Burt Brassard <surfburt@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Good point Dave!
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > In Québec City, this issue came up in January in our
                                          > league.
                                          > > > > I
                                          > > > > > always considered the five second rule not in effect when
                                          > > > > there is a
                                          > > > > > change of possession, therefore the winger to winger pass
                                          > > > > restarts
                                          > > > > > the five second, because as you said the opponent can
                                          > > > > intercept,
                                          > > > > > with their defensemen. But some of my gang didn't think so,
                                          > so
                                          > > > > I
                                          > > > > > explained to them that it's not the same as passing the puck
                                          > > > > behind
                                          > > > > > our own net with our defensemen, because the opponent cannot
                                          > > > > do
                                          > > > > > anything about it! So No 5 second rule from winger to
                                          > winger,
                                          > > > > and
                                          > > > > > even if you flip it on the board back and forth from right
                                          > > > > winger to
                                          > > > > > left winger, the 5 seconds restarts every time, with the
                                          > > > > change of
                                          > > > > > possession.
                                          > > > > > > And I consider the 5 seconds starting when the player
                                          > first
                                          > > > > > touches the puck, to speed up play. I know sometimes the
                                          > puck
                                          > > > > rolls
                                          > > > > > or trickles and it takes some time to get it still, but we
                                          > > > > can't add
                                          > > > > > seconds and have to be strict about the 5 seconds, otherwise
                                          > > > > if we
                                          > > > > > open the door to 3 more seconds, than some players will use
                                          > > > > that as
                                          > > > > > delay tactic, and this will cause controversy. I We must be
                                          > > > > strict
                                          > > > > > about the 5 seconds possession, and even if a winger has a
                                          > > > > hard time
                                          > > > > > with the puck, than "tough", the referee must stop play and
                                          > > > > make a
                                          > > > > > face-off. This is table hockey, not chess! And things should
                                          > > > > roll
                                          > > > > > quickly and smoothly!
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > BURT
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > P.S. If you project of a "Summit Series" vs Europeans,I
                                          > > > > would
                                          > > > > > like to go and be a member of the North American Team,as I
                                          > am
                                          > > > > a
                                          > > > > > multi-board player! That would attract interest and maybe
                                          > > > > sponsors.
                                          > > > > > Nobody would be board for sure!
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > > > From: Dave Kraehling
                                          > > > > > > To: ccth@yahoogroups. com
                                          > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:17 AM
                                          > > > > > > Subject: [ccth] 5 second rule amendment
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Ok Guys I want your feed back on a clarification of the 5
                                          > > > > second
                                          > > > > > play rule.
                                          > > > > > > Scenario. On Coleco we have a rule that when you pass the
                                          > > > > puck
                                          > > > > > from winger to winger behind the net, this is part of the 5
                                          > > > > second
                                          > > > > > rule.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > I want to see an amendment to the rule that eliminates the
                                          > > > > > winger to winger pass as part of the 5sec play.
                                          > > > > > > My reason for this is simple, the puck is being passed
                                          > > > > through
                                          > > > > > an opponents territory therfore can be intercepted at
                                          > anytime
                                          > > > > by the
                                          > > > > > opponent. This point has been brought up on numerous
                                          > > > > occassions and
                                          > > > > > I think now is the time to address it. Now before everyone
                                          > > > > gets on
                                          > > > > > the bandwagon about delay tactics. we can raise the puck
                                          > > > > possession
                                          > > > > > rule to incorporate the puck passing around the boards to 8
                                          > > > > seconds
                                          > > > > > to make a play.
                                          > > > > > > Also we need to decide when the 5 second rule should
                                          > > > > commence.
                                          > > > > > Is it when the player first touches the puck to make a play
                                          > or
                                          > > > > is it
                                          > > > > > when the player has control of the puck to make the play?
                                          > > > > There have
                                          > > > > > been allot of times when the puck is up on end and trying to
                                          > > > > settle
                                          > > > > > the puck down can eat up 5 secs.
                                          > > > > > > Ajit and myself discussed this issue in Las Vegas last
                                          > week
                                          > > > > and
                                          > > > > > I simply put it to him this way in determining the five
                                          > second
                                          > > > > rule
                                          > > > > > and simply put, Where an opponent cannot touch the puck the
                                          > > > > five
                                          > > > > > second rule is in affect and a play must be made within five
                                          > > > > > seconds. Passing behind the net should not be penalized
                                          > > > > because it
                                          > > > > > can be intercepted by the opponet. On PP2 the defense cannot
                                          > > > > > intercept the puck behind the net therfore the five second
                                          > > > > rule
                                          > > > > > would be in effect on passing around the net.
                                          > > > > > > Your comments are welcomed
                                          > > > > > > Dave
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
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