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RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

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  • Erin Bonine
    Hmmmm.now I am not sure what to do. Here are our two most common scenarios: Patient A schedules an annual physical and two days before he is physical we have
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 4, 2007
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      Hmmmm.now I am not sure what to do.



      Here are our two most common scenarios:



      Patient A schedules an annual physical and two days before he is physical we
      have him come in for a blood draw so labs are available at the physical.
      Night before the blood draw appt Doc reviews the patients file and tells our
      nurse what to draw. When she draws the blood she reviews the labs and
      then takes the sample? What codes do we bill?





      Patient B: Needs Synthroid refill, but needs to have TSH checked. Dr.
      okays the TSH draw and nurse bills. What codes do we bill?



      Thanks so much for answering. We found out that our old office manager was
      embezzling and I have not worked in a medical office in 10 years, I have
      quite a learning curve!


      Erin



      -----Original Message-----
      From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      cfelthauser@...
      Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:06 AM
      To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes



      No, he does not...she can bill a 99211....but my question is this to
      you...if the doctor told the patient to come back and have the blood drawn,
      she would only bill the blood draw, unless she saw the patient for another
      reason...if he just said come back and have the blood drawn then the nurse
      should have no reason to bill and E/M service, unless there was some
      separate reason why she saw the patient....

      Chris


      -----Original Message-----
      From: ecbonine@verizon. <mailto:ecbonine%40verizon.net> net
      To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
      Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 7:00 AM
      Subject: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

      First thanks everyone! I am a newbie at being an office manager and coding
      ( lucky wife that I am ! :-) ) and joined this forum to just learn more.
      You have helped me in so many ways!

      Along the lines of Shelley's optometry question, I have a blood draw one. I
      was under the impression that if our doctor reviewed the chart, told our
      nurse what to draw and was in the building at the time of the draw we could
      charge a 99211 and a 36415. I was just told by a BC auditor that he
      actually has to go face to face with the patient in order to charge the
      99211. Is that true?

      Erin_,_._,___

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      __________________________________________________________
      AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
      AOL at AOL.com.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Posten, Susan
      Sounds like 99211 in both situations Susan ________________________________ From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erin Bonine
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 5, 2007
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        Sounds like 99211 in both situations



        Susan

        ________________________________

        From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        Erin Bonine
        Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:29 PM
        To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes



        Hmmmm.now I am not sure what to do.

        Here are our two most common scenarios:

        Patient A schedules an annual physical and two days before he is
        physical we
        have him come in for a blood draw so labs are available at the physical.
        Night before the blood draw appt Doc reviews the patients file and tells
        our
        nurse what to draw. When she draws the blood she reviews the labs and
        then takes the sample? What codes do we bill?

        Patient B: Needs Synthroid refill, but needs to have TSH checked. Dr.
        okays the TSH draw and nurse bills. What codes do we bill?

        Thanks so much for answering. We found out that our old office manager
        was
        embezzling and I have not worked in a medical office in 10 years, I have
        quite a learning curve!

        Erin

        -----Original Message-----
        From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
        Behalf Of
        cfelthauser@... <mailto:cfelthauser%40aol.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:06 AM
        To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

        No, he does not...she can bill a 99211....but my question is this to
        you...if the doctor told the patient to come back and have the blood
        drawn,
        she would only bill the blood draw, unless she saw the patient for
        another
        reason...if he just said come back and have the blood drawn then the
        nurse
        should have no reason to bill and E/M service, unless there was some
        separate reason why she saw the patient....

        Chris

        -----Original Message-----
        From: ecbonine@verizon. <mailto:ecbonine%40verizon.net> net
        To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
        Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 7:00 AM
        Subject: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

        First thanks everyone! I am a newbie at being an office manager and
        coding
        ( lucky wife that I am ! :-) ) and joined this forum to just learn more.
        You have helped me in so many ways!

        Along the lines of Shelley's optometry question, I have a blood draw
        one. I
        was under the impression that if our doctor reviewed the chart, told our
        nurse what to draw and was in the building at the time of the draw we
        could
        charge a 99211 and a 36415. I was just told by a BC auditor that he
        actually has to go face to face with the patient in order to charge the
        99211. Is that true?

        Erin_,_._,___

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        __________________________________________________________
        AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
        from
        AOL at AOL.com.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Erin Bonine
        Thanks so much. We were thinking that he had to actually see the patients and you can imagine what a bottle neck that was creating! Erin ... From:
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 5, 2007
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          Thanks so much. We were thinking that he had to actually see the patients
          and you can imagine what a bottle neck that was creating!

          Erin



          -----Original Message-----
          From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Posten, Susan
          Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 6:12 AM
          To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes



          Sounds like 99211 in both situations

          Susan

          ________________________________

          From: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
          [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
          Of
          Erin Bonine
          Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:29 PM
          To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
          Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

          Hmmmm.now I am not sure what to do.

          Here are our two most common scenarios:

          Patient A schedules an annual physical and two days before he is
          physical we
          have him come in for a blood draw so labs are available at the physical.
          Night before the blood draw appt Doc reviews the patients file and tells
          our
          nurse what to draw. When she draws the blood she reviews the labs and
          then takes the sample? What codes do we bill?

          Patient B: Needs Synthroid refill, but needs to have TSH checked. Dr.
          okays the TSH draw and nurse bills. What codes do we bill?

          Thanks so much for answering. We found out that our old office manager
          was
          embezzling and I have not worked in a medical office in 10 years, I have
          quite a learning curve!

          Erin

          -----Original Message-----
          From: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
          <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
          <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
          Behalf Of
          cfelthauser@ <mailto:cfelthauser%40aol.com> aol.com
          <mailto:cfelthauser%40aol.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:06 AM
          To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
          <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

          No, he does not...she can bill a 99211....but my question is this to
          you...if the doctor told the patient to come back and have the blood
          drawn,
          she would only bill the blood draw, unless she saw the patient for
          another
          reason...if he just said come back and have the blood drawn then the
          nurse
          should have no reason to bill and E/M service, unless there was some
          separate reason why she saw the patient....

          Chris

          -----Original Message-----
          From: ecbonine@verizon. <mailto:ecbonine%40verizon.net> net
          To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
          Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 7:00 AM
          Subject: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

          First thanks everyone! I am a newbie at being an office manager and
          coding
          ( lucky wife that I am ! :-) ) and joined this forum to just learn more.
          You have helped me in so many ways!

          Along the lines of Shelley's optometry question, I have a blood draw
          one. I
          was under the impression that if our doctor reviewed the chart, told our
          nurse what to draw and was in the building at the time of the draw we
          could
          charge a 99211 and a 36415. I was just told by a BC auditor that he
          actually has to go face to face with the patient in order to charge the
          99211. Is that true?

          Erin_,_._,___

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          __________________________________________________________
          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
          from
          AOL at AOL.com.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Campbell, Mary
          I would only bill for the venipuncture. There is no evaluation done by the nurse in my opinion. I can t see how this would be any different than if the patient
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 5, 2007
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            I would only bill for the venipuncture. There is no evaluation done by
            the nurse in my opinion. I can't see how this would be any different
            than if the patient presented to the lab for the blood draw. They have
            the order and draw the sample? If I'm missing something please tell me.



            Mary Campbell, CCS-P, CPC

            Sr. Reimbursement Analyst

            Camino Medical Group

            244 Carroll Street

            Sunnyvale, CA 94086



            408.523.3199

            campbellm@...





            NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY

            The information in this email, including attachments, may be
            confidential and/or privileged, and may contain confidential health
            information. This email is intended to be reviewed only by the
            individual or organization named as addressee. If you have received
            this email in error, please notify the Camino Medical Group HIPAA
            Privacy Office by forwarding this message to
            clementeg@..., or replying to the sender. Destroy all
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            information is protected by state and federal law, including, but not
            limited to, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of
            1996 and related regulations."



            -----Original Message-----
            From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Erin Bonine
            Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 5:29 PM
            To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes



            Hmmmm.now I am not sure what to do.

            Here are our two most common scenarios:

            Patient A schedules an annual physical and two days before he is
            physical we
            have him come in for a blood draw so labs are available at the physical.
            Night before the blood draw appt Doc reviews the patients file and tells
            our
            nurse what to draw. When she draws the blood she reviews the labs and
            then takes the sample? What codes do we bill?

            Patient B: Needs Synthroid refill, but needs to have TSH checked. Dr.
            okays the TSH draw and nurse bills. What codes do we bill?

            Thanks so much for answering. We found out that our old office manager
            was
            embezzling and I have not worked in a medical office in 10 years, I have
            quite a learning curve!

            Erin

            -----Original Message-----
            From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
            Behalf Of
            cfelthauser@... <mailto:cfelthauser%40aol.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:06 AM
            To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

            No, he does not...she can bill a 99211....but my question is this to
            you...if the doctor told the patient to come back and have the blood
            drawn,
            she would only bill the blood draw, unless she saw the patient for
            another
            reason...if he just said come back and have the blood drawn then the
            nurse
            should have no reason to bill and E/M service, unless there was some
            separate reason why she saw the patient....

            Chris

            -----Original Message-----
            From: ecbonine@verizon. <mailto:ecbonine%40verizon.net> net
            To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
            Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 7:00 AM
            Subject: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

            First thanks everyone! I am a newbie at being an office manager and
            coding
            ( lucky wife that I am ! :-) ) and joined this forum to just learn more.
            You have helped me in so many ways!

            Along the lines of Shelley's optometry question, I have a blood draw
            one. I
            was under the impression that if our doctor reviewed the chart, told our
            nurse what to draw and was in the building at the time of the draw we
            could
            charge a 99211 and a 36415. I was just told by a BC auditor that he
            actually has to go face to face with the patient in order to charge the
            99211. Is that true?

            Erin_,_._,___

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            __________________________________________________________
            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
            from
            AOL at AOL.com.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • cfelthauser@aol.com
            I m also curious as to what the nurse reviews the lab ....what is she reviewing? She/he is just drawing the blood and filling out the forms and sending it
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 5, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm also curious as to what the nurse "reviews the lab"....what is she reviewing? She/he is just drawing the blood and filling out the forms and sending it off? I agree, I just see the lab draw there....same thing with number 2...I'm not seeing a separate e/m service...am I missing something too?

              chris

              -----Original Message-----
              From: campbellm@...
              To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 7:31 AM
              Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes


              I would only bill for the venipuncture. There is no evaluation done by
              the nurse in my opinion. I can't see how this would be any different
              than if the patient presented to the lab for the blood draw. They have
              the order and draw the sample? If I'm missing something please tell me.

              Mary Campbell, CCS-P, CPC

              Sr. Reimbursement Analyst

              Camino Medical Group

              244 Carroll Street

              Sunnyvale, CA 94086

              408.523.3199

              campbellm@...

              NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY

              The information in this email, including attachments, may be
              confidential and/or privileged, and may contain confidential health
              information. This email is intended to be reviewed only by the
              individual or organization named as addressee. If you have received
              this email in error, please notify the Camino Medical Group HIPAA
              Privacy Office by forwarding this message to
              clementeg@..., or replying to the sender. Destroy all
              copies of this message and any attachments. Please note that any views
              or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and
              do not necessarily represent those of CMG. Confidential health
              information is protected by state and federal law, including, but not
              limited to, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of
              1996 and related regulations."

              -----Original Message-----
              From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Erin Bonine
              Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 5:29 PM
              To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

              Hmmmm.now I am not sure what to do.

              Here are our two most common scenarios:

              Patient A schedules an annual physical and two days before he is
              physical we
              have him come in for a blood draw so labs are available at the physical.
              Night before the blood draw appt Doc reviews the patients file and tells
              our
              nurse what to draw. When she draws the blood she reviews the labs and
              then takes the sample? What codes do we bill?

              Patient B: Needs Synthroid refill, but needs to have TSH checked. Dr.
              okays the TSH draw and nurse bills. What codes do we bill?

              Thanks so much for answering. We found out that our old office manager
              was
              embezzling and I have not worked in a medical office in 10 years, I have
              quite a learning curve!

              Erin

              -----Original Message-----
              From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
              Behalf Of
              cfelthauser@... <mailto:cfelthauser%40aol.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:06 AM
              To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

              No, he does not...she can bill a 99211....but my question is this to
              you...if the doctor told the patient to come back and have the blood
              drawn,
              she would only bill the blood draw, unless she saw the patient for
              another
              reason...if he just said come back and have the blood drawn then the
              nurse
              should have no reason to bill and E/M service, unless there was some
              separate reason why she saw the patient....

              Chris

              -----Original Message-----
              From: ecbonine@verizon. <mailto:ecbonine%40verizon.net> net
              To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
              Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 7:00 AM
              Subject: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

              First thanks everyone! I am a newbie at being an office manager and
              coding
              ( lucky wife that I am ! :-) ) and joined this forum to just learn more.
              You have helped me in so many ways!

              Along the lines of Shelley's optometry question, I have a blood draw
              one. I
              was under the impression that if our doctor reviewed the chart, told our
              nurse what to draw and was in the building at the time of the draw we
              could
              charge a 99211 and a 36415. I was just told by a BC auditor that he
              actually has to go face to face with the patient in order to charge the
              99211. Is that true?

              Erin_,_._,___

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              __________________________________________________________
              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
              from
              AOL at AOL.com.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ________________________________________________________________________
              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Quinten Buechner
              In both cases she draws blood and uses the blood draw codes, no E&M is done. Quin Quinten A. Buechner, M.S., M.Div., ACS-FP/GI/PEDS, CPC, CCP, CMSCS President,
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                In both cases she draws blood and uses the blood draw codes, no E&M is done.



                Quin

                Quinten A. Buechner, M.S., M.Div.,
                ACS-FP/GI/PEDS, CPC, CCP, CMSCS
                President, ProActive Consultants, LLC
                1659 3rd Avenue
                Cumberland, WI 54829
                e-mail: QuinB@...
                Website: http://www.ProActiveConsultants.net
                <http://www.proactiveconsultants.net/>
                Phone: 715.822.8284
                Fax: 715.822.8299

                General notice: Nothing in this email should be taken as legal advice, I do
                not practice law; try hiring a competent lawyer. Do you expect tax or
                regulatory advice in this email to avoid federal penalties? You've got to be
                kidding! Get a knowledgeable CPA to go with that competent lawyer! If you
                are under age 13, find a different sandbox to play in. This one is ours. If
                you are a spammer or someone who is not involved with this business but
                joined just to cause trouble may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your
                nose forever or at least until Monica is no longer part of Bill's legacy or
                George W. flat out admits he was wrong in anything ( clue all 3 are the
                same).

                Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including attachments) is
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Posten, Susan
                Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:12 AM
                To: CRN-L@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes
                Importance: Low



                Sounds like 99211 in both situations

                Susan

                ________________________________

                From: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
                [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
                Of
                Erin Bonine
                Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:29 PM
                To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
                Subject: RE: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

                Hmmmm.now I am not sure what to do.

                Here are our two most common scenarios:

                Patient A schedules an annual physical and two days before he is
                physical we
                have him come in for a blood draw so labs are available at the physical.
                Night before the blood draw appt Doc reviews the patients file and tells
                our
                nurse what to draw. When she draws the blood she reviews the labs and
                then takes the sample? What codes do we bill?

                Patient B: Needs Synthroid refill, but needs to have TSH checked. Dr.
                okays the TSH draw and nurse bills. What codes do we bill?

                Thanks so much for answering. We found out that our old office manager
                was
                embezzling and I have not worked in a medical office in 10 years, I have
                quite a learning curve!

                Erin

                -----Original Message-----
                From: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
                <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                [mailto:CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
                <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                Behalf Of
                cfelthauser@ <mailto:cfelthauser%40aol.com> aol.com
                <mailto:cfelthauser%40aol.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:06 AM
                To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
                <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

                No, he does not...she can bill a 99211....but my question is this to
                you...if the doctor told the patient to come back and have the blood
                drawn,
                she would only bill the blood draw, unless she saw the patient for
                another
                reason...if he just said come back and have the blood drawn then the
                nurse
                should have no reason to bill and E/M service, unless there was some
                separate reason why she saw the patient....

                Chris

                -----Original Message-----
                From: ecbonine@verizon. <mailto:ecbonine%40verizon.net> net
                To: CRN-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:CRN-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
                Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 7:00 AM
                Subject: [CRN-L] BLood Draw Codes

                First thanks everyone! I am a newbie at being an office manager and
                coding
                ( lucky wife that I am ! :-) ) and joined this forum to just learn more.
                You have helped me in so many ways!

                Along the lines of Shelley's optometry question, I have a blood draw
                one. I
                was under the impression that if our doctor reviewed the chart, told our
                nurse what to draw and was in the building at the time of the draw we
                could
                charge a 99211 and a 36415. I was just told by a BC auditor that he
                actually has to go face to face with the patient in order to charge the
                99211. Is that true?

                Erin_,_._,___

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                __________________________________________________________
                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
                from
                AOL at AOL.com.

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