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Re: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting

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  • Nick & Mary Freeman
    Hi Steve & Alvaro & Birders I work in the foothills of Pasadena, CA, JPL, about 1400 in elevation. For the past two years, I ve monitored Eurasian Collared-
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 19 10:26 AM
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      Hi Steve & Alvaro & Birders

      I work in the foothills of Pasadena, CA, JPL, about 1400' in
      elevation. For the past two years, I've monitored Eurasian Collared-
      Dove that have been visiting the facility. So far, only three have
      visited the area. I thought for sure they'd populate the site, so
      far it's not happened. Band-tailed Pigeons are very common than the
      Mourning Doves at this location. Back in June, we spent a weekend in
      the southern Sierra (about 6800' in elevation) near Bakersfield, CA,
      and the Mourning Dove numbers were incredibly high with a few
      sightings of Band-taileds. We just led a trip to the Salton Sea,
      whether it's a seasonal occurrence, I'm not sure but we had a few
      Mourning Doves with the collared-doves being abundant , mainly around
      ranch or farm sites. I've wondered how much the Eurasian Collared-
      Dove is affecting the Mourning Dove population as well. Here in
      Glendale, we've not detected them but it's not to say they have not
      invaded the area.

      Mary Freeman
      Glendale, CA
    • Steve Hampton
      All, Let me clarify that I m just a messenger here and am not involved with DFG hunting regs or dove management in anyway (and I don t even know who is). From
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 19 10:27 AM
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        All,

        Let me clarify that I'm just a messenger here and am not involved with DFG hunting regs or dove management in anyway (and I don't even know who is).

        From a birder's perspective, I agree with Alvaro that this should be studied. Based on my observations here in the southern Sacramento Valley, I'm not convinced that EUCD are impacting Mourning Doves-- but I have no data to support that. EUCD seem to prefer the drier edges of the valley here, against the western and eastern foothills, and are still hard to find near the Sacramento River in the middle of the valley. And, yes, they seem to be associated with tall trees at homesteads, towns, etc.

        In winter, they form flocks of up to 75+ birds.





        Steve Hampton
        ________________
        Resource Economist
        Office of Spill Prevention and Response
        California Dept of Fish and Game
        PO Box 944209
        Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
        -----------------------------------
        (916) 323-4724 phone
        (916) 324-8829 fax

        >>> Nick & Mary Freeman <mnfreeman@...> 8/19/2010 10:26 AM >>>
        Hi Steve & Alvaro & Birders

        I work in the foothills of Pasadena, CA, JPL, about 1400' in
        elevation. For the past two years, I've monitored Eurasian Collared-
        Dove that have been visiting the facility. So far, only three have
        visited the area. I thought for sure they'd populate the site, so
        far it's not happened. Band-tailed Pigeons are very common than the
        Mourning Doves at this location. Back in June, we spent a weekend in
        the southern Sierra (about 6800' in elevation) near Bakersfield, CA,
        and the Mourning Dove numbers were incredibly high with a few
        sightings of Band-taileds. We just led a trip to the Salton Sea,
        whether it's a seasonal occurrence, I'm not sure but we had a few
        Mourning Doves with the collared-doves being abundant , mainly around
        ranch or farm sites. I've wondered how much the Eurasian Collared-
        Dove is affecting the Mourning Dove population as well. Here in
        Glendale, we've not detected them but it's not to say they have not
        invaded the area.

        Mary Freeman
        Glendale, CA
      • Rick
        I was under the impression that invasive spp. birds were not protected and thus there was basically and open season on them--I realize CA different from ND
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 19 11:00 AM
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          I was under the impression that invasive spp. birds were not protected
          and thus there was basically and open season on them--I realize CA
          different from ND but,... :-)

          On 8/19/2010 11:55 AM, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote:
          >
          > Thanks Steve,
          >
          > I am amazed that Fish and Game say "they do not seem to be gaining an
          > advantage over native species." I would have been much more comfortable
          > with, "we do not know.." Subjectively speaking here in my neck of the
          > woods
          > Mourning Doves are less common now than when the Collared Dove arrived;
          > however Collared Doves are much more local in their distribution
          > preferring
          > towns and farm buildings, rather than open fields, and less disturbed
          > sites.
          > In these places there are as many Mourning Doves as there have ever
          > been. I
          > would not be surprised if at the small scale Collareds are really
          > hammering
          > Mournings, but at the global scale there is no real threat to Mourning
          > Doves. Subjectively speaking, but it would be great for someone to do a
          > study.
          >
          > Alvaro
          >
          > Alvaro Jaramillo
          >
          > chucao@... <mailto:chucao%40coastside.net>
          >
          > Half Moon Bay, California
          >
          > Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
          >
          > www.fieldguides.com
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>]
          > On Behalf
          > Of Steve Hampton
          > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:40 AM
          > To: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting
          >
          > FYI, from the Calif Fish and Game Q&A page today. Many birders probably
          > already know that all those gunshots you hear on Sept 1 are dove hunters.
          >
          > Question: I have a question pertaining to Eurasian doves. I have heard
          > they
          > are an invasive species and compete for food and shelter with the native
          > mourning doves. I believe they are open game during dove season and do not
          > count towards a personal limit. Can the Eurasians be hunted year-round? In
          > the last couple of years their population has grown extensively near
          > where I
          > live. If they are open year-round, I was thinking of thinning the herd a
          > bit. (Mike G.)
          >
          > Answer: While it's very nice of you to offer to help in "thinning the
          > herd",
          > Eurasian doves can only be taken during the regular season. Otherwise,
          > year-round hunting for this one species would create an enforcement
          > nightmare for the game wardens. Eurasian doves are invasive and are living
          > with, and competing with, native species. However, at this point they
          > do not
          > seem to be gaining the advantage over the native species. Keep in mind
          > that
          > there is no limit on Eurasian collared doves when the season is open
          > (Sept.
          > 1-15 and Nov. 14 - Dec 28).
          >
          > Steve Hampton
          > ________________
          > Resource Economist
          > Office of Spill Prevention and Response
          > California Dept of Fish and Game
          > PO Box 944209
          > Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
          > -----------------------------------
          > (916) 323-4724 phone
          > (916) 324-8829 fax
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          --

          Rick Holbrook
          Fargo, ND
          N 46°53'251"
          W 096°48'279"


          Remember the USS Liberty
          http://www.ussliberty.org/

          Reply to: fholbrook(at)cableone.net








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ken Burton
          In the For-What-It s-Worth Department, Mourning Dove does show a significant decline on BBS routes in California from 1966-2007. There was a non-significant
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 19 11:04 AM
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            In the For-What-It's-Worth Department, Mourning Dove does show a
            significant decline on BBS routes in California from 1966-2007. There
            was a non-significant decline from 1980-2007 after a non-significant
            increase from 1966-1979. Of course, it would be foolish to blame this
            on collared-doves, which weren't even around during most of the
            "decline," but it would be equally foolish to say off-handedly that
            mourning doves are doing fine.

            Coincidentally, I'm writing an article on the collared-dove in which I
            call for studies of its interactions with and impacts on native species.
            One piece of information I haven't been able to sleuth out is an
            explanation of the specific name, decaocto. "Ten-eight"? Doesn't make
            much sense to me. Can anyone elucidate?

            Thanks.

            Ken Burton
            Arcata

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Alvaro Jaramillo" <chucao@...>
            To: "'Steve Hampton'" <shampton@...>;
            <CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:55 AM
            Subject: RE: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting


            > Thanks Steve,
            >
            >
            >
            > I am amazed that Fish and Game say "they do not seem to be gaining
            > an
            > advantage over native species." I would have been much more
            > comfortable
            > with, "we do not know.." Subjectively speaking here in my neck of the
            > woods
            > Mourning Doves are less common now than when the Collared Dove
            > arrived;
            > however Collared Doves are much more local in their distribution
            > preferring
            > towns and farm buildings, rather than open fields, and less disturbed
            > sites.
            > In these places there are as many Mourning Doves as there have ever
            > been. I
            > would not be surprised if at the small scale Collareds are really
            > hammering
            > Mournings, but at the global scale there is no real threat to Mourning
            > Doves. Subjectively speaking, but it would be great for someone to do
            > a
            > study.
            >
            >
            >
            > Alvaro
            >
            >
            >
            > Alvaro Jaramillo
            >
            > chucao@...
            >
            > Half Moon Bay, California
            >
            >
            >
            > Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
            >
            > www.fieldguides.com
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf
            > Of Steve Hampton
            > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:40 AM
            > To: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > FYI, from the Calif Fish and Game Q&A page today. Many birders
            > probably
            > already know that all those gunshots you hear on Sept 1 are dove
            > hunters.
            >
            > Question: I have a question pertaining to Eurasian doves. I have heard
            > they
            > are an invasive species and compete for food and shelter with the
            > native
            > mourning doves. I believe they are open game during dove season and do
            > not
            > count towards a personal limit. Can the Eurasians be hunted
            > year-round? In
            > the last couple of years their population has grown extensively near
            > where I
            > live. If they are open year-round, I was thinking of thinning the herd
            > a
            > bit. (Mike G.)
            >
            > Answer: While it's very nice of you to offer to help in "thinning the
            > herd",
            > Eurasian doves can only be taken during the regular season. Otherwise,
            > year-round hunting for this one species would create an enforcement
            > nightmare for the game wardens. Eurasian doves are invasive and are
            > living
            > with, and competing with, native species. However, at this point they
            > do not
            > seem to be gaining the advantage over the native species. Keep in mind
            > that
            > there is no limit on Eurasian collared doves when the season is open
            > (Sept.
            > 1-15 and Nov. 14 - Dec 28).
            >
            > Steve Hampton
            > ________________
            > Resource Economist
            > Office of Spill Prevention and Response
            > California Dept of Fish and Game
            > PO Box 944209
            > Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
            > -----------------------------------
            > (916) 323-4724 phone
            > (916) 324-8829 fax
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
          • Kimball Garrett
            Ken et al., I could say they re named decaocto because they re so ten-eight-ious, but Jobling, in A Dictionary of Scientifc Bird Names, says: Decaocto L.
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 19 11:37 AM
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              Ken et al.,

              I could say they're named decaocto because they're so ten-eight-ious,
              but Jobling, in A Dictionary of Scientifc Bird Names, says:
              "Decaocto L. dec-, ten; octo, eight. Greek myth. A hard-worked
              maidservant, bemoaning her pay of miserly 18 piece a year, prayed for
              release and was changed by the gods into a dove that echoed her mournful
              cries." [Little did she know she would take over the world!]

              Apropos of Steve's comment about hunting, I would encourage whatever
              small percentage of you on this listserve who are also dove hunters, to
              check with your local museum/university bird collection to see if they
              want you to bag a few (with full data) for science. Developing a decent
              series individuals from recently colonizing species can have great value
              in population genetics, evolutionary studies of morphological
              adaptation, etc. We probably still lack specimens of ECDove from most
              California counties.

              Kimball

              Kimball L. Garrett
              Ornithology Collections Manager
              Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
              900 Exposition Blvd.
              Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA
              213-763-3368
              kgarrett@...


              -----Original Message-----
              From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Ken Burton
              Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 11:04 AM
              To: 'Steve Hampton'; CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com; Alvaro Jaramillo
              Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting

              Coincidentally, I'm writing an article on the collared-dove in which I
              call for studies of its interactions with and impacts on native species.

              One piece of information I haven't been able to sleuth out is an
              explanation of the specific name, decaocto. "Ten-eight"? Doesn't make
              much sense to me. Can anyone elucidate?
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.